Zero Punctuation: Dishonored

[Nazulu]

It amazes me you all need Yahtzee to tell you this game sucks. Prior threads about Dishonored were unmitigated fawning admiration, and only now some criticism finally comes out.

Get of your high horse. I always find criticism in all threads, and even then some people either ignore the game or attack Bethesda directly.

 

[Razorback0z]

Wow, relatively speaking that was a glowing endorsement. Im still waiting for the bargain bin.

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

Play through DIshonored enough and you'll find it changes quite alot depending on the actions taken. I have finished it once and my bro has finished it twice. Each of us had a completely differant endgame confrontation. Seriously it was stupid how differant it was and I love it becsuse now I want to find out how he did that.

Not listing the changes unless requested.

 

[RockyMotion]

I liked the morality system in inFamous and Mass Effect but in Dishonored it's a complete buzzkill. It's like the game is saying: "Here, have this awesome arsenal of brutal gadgets and abilities, but don't you dare using them! If you want the best ending, just use these two boring non-lethal methods and let the awesome deadly weapons rust in your inventory!"

It doesn't make sense having a game with such an addictive variety of killing methods and then punishing the player for trying them out. It's like giving a kid a box of toys and only allowing him to play with the most boring one.

 

[Lykosia_v1legacy]

And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...

Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.

Spoiler

Key thing is not to help Granny nor Slackjaw in the sewers. Just steal the key and run. If you help either one, you end up killing the other.

You mean... it counts as a kill even if you choke her, and even if you get the "no enemies killed" award at the same time?

That is what I've been told. I didn't even try to help either one. I just took the key and ran.

 

[C117]

And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...

Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.

Spoiler

Key thing is not to help Granny nor Slackjaw in the sewers. Just steal the key and run. If you help either one, you end up killing the other.

You mean... it counts as a kill even if you choke her, and even if you get the "no enemies killed" award at the same time?

That is what I've been told. I didn't even try to help either one. I just took the key and ran.

I see. Thank you for the tip, I will have to try that out.

 

[Plate-Rogue812]

If you stop time, blink into a crowd of enemies, stick a springrazor to someone's back and blink out again before your time stop ends and you're detected it counts as a stealth kill and doesn't add to your chaos level. The gun and grenade/sticky grenade as well as incendiary bolts are the only weapons you're strictly prohibited from using to get the good ending because of the level of screaming and, or explosions that they create. Hacking security systems instead of turning them off is also not encouraged because guards will know someone's been touching their stuff. The "chaos" system is more of a reference to the STYLE of your kills rather than killing versus nonlethal.

 

[scorptatious]

Fallout 2 didn't have a binary moral choice system and it is the greatest RPG I've ever played... but perhaps I have a bias.
Either way I agree I hate the silent protagonist because creating a character that has zero personality of his own is only frustrating to me, (which isn't the same as a shitty personality such as Nathan Drake) because when a NPC tells me to go fetch/kill/rescue something or someone I want to be able to at least know that PC isn't just a bloody robot that functions only to please those that gives it orders. Silent protagonist crutch that developers use only seems like a excuse to me for developers to not have to invest into having to make sure that PC's personality is consistent and logical when compared to the crazy things they'll be doing for the sake of advancing the game.

LOL, I'm actually playing through Fallout 2 again at the moment.

OT: I don't mind playing as a silent protagonist myself. Although I can understand why most people wouldn't.

Also, to answer your question Yahtzee: why do you all insist on adding the letter "u" to honor?

 

[Jack Rascal]

One last thing. (sorry perhaps some minor spoilers) At the end the one NPC (he was so generic he was not really a character) told me how disappointed in what I became (a serial killer) and that I should go f*** myself. He then shot a flare so everyone knew where I was.

Ah, poor Sam. In my first playthrough I killed him. For giving away my position, he deserved death. Left him with a bolt in his head, floating in his little boat.

OT: I like the game. Sure, it was short, but I'm enjoying trying different approaches. If the game was long I don't think i would have the energy to try different methods or see all the endings. My first playthrough was 'chaos', I wanted to be enraged Corvo who only wished death on everyone. Now I'm trying ghost. Turns out it's not as easy as I thought, especially since I have almost an obsessive tendency to find, collect and loot everything. Also, damn you mice! I did not leave the guards there so you could have a feast.

In this game, I find the silent protagonist to be the best choice because the entire game is in first person perspective. Voice acting, I think, is more suited to third person. Ezio in AC for example, I feel like I'm following his story. I can see him on screen and interact in cutscenes all the time. But in Dishonored, it's more like I'm the main character and I make the choices on how to behave. I also don't see the point of having a voice when I have multiple answers to pick from. The character would only read the line I just read and chose myself. I think that would make Corvo feel more like robot who only repeats lines and doesn't have a personality.

And I would love if Arcane could make another game set in the same world. Doesn't have to be a sequel in any way, I just like the world and gameplay.

 

[taltamir]

Binary moral choice goes up there with QTEs and anything from Japan not named Silent Hill in the things Yahtzee hates. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for the developers. Guess they might actually need to innovate.

He hates it because its made out of pure stupidity congealed into physical matter.
This moral choice system ruined dishonored for me and I quit playing fairly early on because of it.

 

[synobal]

Yahtzee hit my main complaints with this game, my biggest complaint was the dialog and story though, it was just crap.

 

[predatorpulse7]

I simply need to ask
Was Thief2 THAT good?
Because it seems that Yahtzee can't shut up about it

Thief 2 is the GOLD standard for the sneak genre. You cannot say you played stealth if you didn't play the Thief series. It makes almost everything else in the sneak'em up genre look like a joke. Why? Insanely good atmosphere, a likeable but mysterious protagonist(not a supernatural badass with powers, just a guy that wants to get payed), a world that feel alive and gameplay that is awesome, especially if you play on expert.

Almost every guard can become a challenge, especially if decide to ghost a level(no knockouts, no kills, just steal s**t and hide). Those that played Thief 2(and even 1 and 3) know just how great these games are and that's because they do stealth well and most important of all, NO HANDHOLDING FOR THE PLAYER. Like that Razorfist video above says, when you start Thief 2 there is no flashback to let you know what happened in Thief 1. Want to find out? Look it up online, or better yet, play Thief 1. There is no magical radar to let you know where enemies are or where they are facing. You have to rely on your sight, ears(in what other game do you need to lean against a wall/door to hear how far guards are?) and have the patience to learn the guards patrol rounds.

The Thief series(but especially Thief 2) is such a well rounded product that it has basically spawned a nearly ideal formula for stealth. The only thing you can hold against this series is the subpar graphics(even for its time) and maybe some of the supernatural elements(zombies,haunts and such) that came in the first game. As I said before, the formula is so good that fans of the game made another game based on that very same formula, called Shadows of the Metal Age and it is so good that at times it approaches the original. Shadows of the Metal Age beats most so called stealth games released by major developers even though it's made my amateurs and it does so because its base is such an astounding game like Thief 2.

I could go on for days praising this series but I'll leave you with this thought - If you consider yourself a fan of stealth, the Thief series is a MUST. Play Thief and you'll laugh at other attempts at stealth.

 

[LiquidCloud]

I'm surprised people are saying it's the best stealth game in 10+ years, even Thief 3 was better, (and ahem, Blood Money).

people who are saying this is the best stealth game in 10 years havent played a stealth game in 10 years

 

[Fursnake]

Good review, I was a bit disappointed by some of the same things Yahtzee was. Decent enough game, but it should have been $30 or $40. I wish I had thought of playing two simultaneous games, one good and one bad playthrough.

 

[grey_space]

I played through it once as supernice guy. I too would have liked a 'greyer' moral option as well as the typical dark/lightside choices.

My main issue? it was too short and I didn't feel like I got my full value for money.

I might go for another, more evil playthrough but at the moment I'm wishing I waited for Dishonored to go down in price and bought xcom instead.

 

[Rastien]

"because I'm the bell end."

It's a good thing that I have Urban Dictionary on my Google Favorites, otherwise I wouldn't get half the slang being slung about these days.

Yahtzee was faster paced on this episode than most. Maybe it's because I haven't had my requisite two pots of morning coffee yet but I kept missing things.

It's i, think old? i remember since i was at least 6 bell end being slung around. English slang for the end of a males well... ^^

 

[Basement Cat]

"because I'm the bell end."

It's a good thing that I have Urban Dictionary on my Google Favorites, otherwise I wouldn't get half the slang being slung about these days.

Yahtzee was faster paced on this episode than most. Maybe it's because I haven't had my requisite two pots of morning coffee yet but I kept missing things.

It's i, think old? i remember since i was at least 6 bell end being slung around. English slang for the end of a males well... ^^

Copy that. It's an English term. That explains it.

 

[Stepan_RUS']

I just tried to watch this video, however this man speaks very fast. It is likely because my spoken english is not perfect, but i cannot understand what this man is talking about?

 

[Sir Shockwave]

Honestly, I was looking forward to Dishonored and I didn't even get as far as Yahtzee before turning it off out of complete boredom.

As Yahtzee points out, gameplay wise it's just a very bad mismash of various games that did all this and better (though his comments that it compares to Thief are slightly surprising - the game in my mind it plagiarized it's mechanics from the most was Deus Ex: Human Revolution), combined with a predictable, boring and trite story...yeah.

 

[Therumancer]

Yahtzee pretty much echoed my thoughts about part of this... the moral choice system. One of the reasons why I pretty much stopped messing with it and feel I wasted my money is because to play as a good guy, you pretty much have to neglect 90% of the tools the game gives you. Your pretty much handed a bunch of toys and then told you'll be punished if you play with them. Of course it's also true that if you take the "stealth, meh" approach and just kill everyone and everything in your way, the game becomes a heck of a lot easier, and perhaps more realistic given the overall situation and the supposed capabilities of our protaganist.

I generally get the whole "killing is wrong" bit, but it fits in some cases, and not in others. I don't think it really fit in with this game, especially given the dark "Revenge Solves Everything" tagline. I'm supposed to be some scary steampunk "Count Of Monty Cristo", the story shouldn't have a bad ending if I refuse to basically pretend I'm Batman and refuse to kill anyone. Batman has his own games, and the non-lethal aspects of things work in those games because they were designed for it. Nobody designed 47 awesome ways to kill into "Arkham Ciy" and then punished you for using them, instead they decided "Batman doesn't kill, and we don't want him to in this game" and kept to that theme through the design and what tools and moves they give you, making things substantially more "organic" so to speak, I never felt like I was being forced to hold back the way I do in Dishonored.