I think it's funny how so many people here are saying they won't try EVE because he did not like it, didn't he jsut get done yelling at people in the mailbag showdown because they wait for someone supposedly in authority to tell them yay or nay? EVE can never try to be WoW because it was out way before WoW was so that arguement makes no sense and like I said in the first reply, this game is not for everyone, dedicated players who enjoy it don't want you hack and slash MMO players. If you like a game that makes you think and in which you must actually take the time to put into it then come and join us I personally run a player corporation made specifically to help new players learn the game and find out what they would like to do within it, you can contact my character Alesa Gillespie in game and I will be happy to bring you on board. All you WoW hack and slashers need not apply since there is no way to play for a week straight and be at the highest level.
Zero Punctuation: Eve Online
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
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Frankly, it looks like this review brings out the PC Gaming Master Race out of the woods to tell us we console-playing dirty hippies are subhuman scum.
Except that Eve is boring and not deep or complex. Eve is shallow and broad. There's five billion different systems with very few interesting details in any of them.
I've seen dozens of people try to convince me I need to play Eve at least three months and find a perfect group to play it with to actually voice an opinion. The problem is that a good group saves almost any game - WoW with a good group is really fun, as are the vast majority of MMORPGs - and that if a 14-day trial isn't enough to determine if you like the game style or not, the game is horribly designed.
And frankly, having played Eve I have to agree with Yahtzee. It's boring and oftentimes I wished I had a game to play while I wait for production/autopilot/warp. It might be a great economic simulator but a good game it is not.
Except that Eve is boring and not deep or complex. Eve is shallow and broad. There's five billion different systems with very few interesting details in any of them.
I've seen dozens of people try to convince me I need to play Eve at least three months and find a perfect group to play it with to actually voice an opinion. The problem is that a good group saves almost any game - WoW with a good group is really fun, as are the vast majority of MMORPGs - and that if a 14-day trial isn't enough to determine if you like the game style or not, the game is horribly designed.
And frankly, having played Eve I have to agree with Yahtzee. It's boring and oftentimes I wished I had a game to play while I wait for production/autopilot/warp. It might be a great economic simulator but a good game it is not.
Yeah I'm aware of the whole gooseberry thing but I didn't know who else would be, kiwi fruit was just the first thing I thought off. And its far too early in the morning here! Don't judge Me! Joking by the way. Before we get lost in more pointless and confusing analogies, what I meant is that its kind of a petty copyright issue. Each to his own though, and I think I'll stop trying to drag this further off-topic.p0nda post=6.70442.695541 said:
Also, that. Everyone who doesn't like Eve is automatically an idiot and possibly a monkey, and needs to pay CCP more money to try again if they'd like it better repeating their bad experience.
I mean, the fanboy rage is worse than what I get from WoW fans.
I mean, the fanboy rage is worse than what I get from WoW fans.
Strawman. Personally I play on all platforms, because I dont want to miss out on great games regardless on what system they are on. Unlike you. And the only one who have come with negative characteristics of people, is yahtzee and you and your fellow 'omg I played EVE for 30 minutes and decided it was crap' squads.insanelich post=6.70442.695668 said:
Oh the irony!
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=200006
I like playing games with other people. MMO's, splitscreen/online FPS, Guitar Hero, I don't care. Playing on your own against the computer is purely and simply less fun than playing with and/or against people.Odjin post=6.70442.695328 said:Great how nerds can close their heads of to not read. So let's put it simple in a few sentences so nobody can complain:
1) Games are not for socializing. If you need that you are either a big emo or have no life. Games are for fun, tickling, mind challenging or just giving you a great time. If you need there a socializing system to get friends... then you utterly failed at life
Bottom line, you're not wrong: games are for fun. But your fun and mine aren't the same. Some people like DJ's, "choons" and dancefloors, I prefer bands, "songs" and moshpits.
No. Strategy is a long-term battle-plan, tactics is the short-term implementation of that part of the plan using conditions and resources available.
100-vs-1 is very much strategy and tactics; i.e., planning how you're going to make sure you're the 100 and not the 1. Figuring out how to create situations where you have the advantage and avoid situations where you don't is a cornerstone of BOTH strategy AND tactics, and abject failure to employ either is usually the reason you find yourself in a 100-vs-1 encounter in the first place. I'm sorry if you thought charging around blind and attacking everything you see would be as effective in MMO PvP as they are in GTA.
Granted, but if you explore, talk to people and actually try things out - as you're supposed to in a sandbox game - you'll find the good bits in Eve quite quickly. If you sit there and keep doing the same thing in virtual silence, expecting it to become fun, you won't.
Bottom line, people with no imagination who need big neon signs pointing to the fun won't enjoy Eve and shouldn't even bother. Not to say that imaginative self-starters will definitely like it, but it makes them Might Do's instead of Definitely Won'ts.
You aren't. Unless you're a mission-grinder or a career miner, but those people are freaks. I don't understand them either.
Q.E.D.nastykerm post=6.70442.695739 said:
Plus, I played Eve for two weeks and go so caught up in it I wanted to buy a sub. Until I realized I spent more time waiting than gaming and that I wasn't going to find a corp worth anything in a million years in Minmatar 1.0 space.
I've played both, they're different games, enjoyable for their own qualities. Keep in mind sir that in EVE Online you're not flying fighters, your flying what in Freelancer terms are the battleships and cruisers. It's a cap ship simulator, and I think you can agree with me that ships of that size can't be worked with a joystick.vlanitak post=6.70442.695228 said:
You can argue that EVE should have went a different route, that's fine. You're free to love or hate the game, just please give it a chance first.
I was kind of surprised that Yahtzee missed one of the central, and highly insultable, points of EVE so entirely. EVE is a game that removes most of the player abillity from gaining power. Enduring Grinds, doing dungeons, raiding, PVP, none of that increases your abillity. The only thing that matters is the amount of real time you put into the game since the passage of time is what raises your skills. The huge number of skills present on first analysis seems like the game is presenting a highly advanced RPG enviroment with a lot of options for micromanaging things. This isn't really true. They kept adding more skills and such to the game as people spent enough time to max out what was there. The idea being to give the long time players something to advance in.
EVE is based around the idea that the longest-term players are the most powerful, and by definition newer players/corps no matter how skilled simply cannot catch up to them. An important point when you consider the Free-for all nature of PVP.
Also if Yahtzee didn't like the combat, thankfully he missed the point that the most efficient way to start is doing things like mining astroids in high security sectors where being attacked by other players isn't as much of a factor.
*THAT* said, I myself would like to see a good Science Fiction MMORPG where you can do stuff both on the ground and in space. However to do this right would ultimatly involving developing 2 MMORPGs (differant engines) and then selling them for one price/membership fee. This is why people haven't spent much time trying to do it. So far the only attempt was Star Wars Galaxies, their space supplement being an X-wing Vs. Tie Fighter twitch game that didn't fit in with the rest of the RPG experience.
Honestly if someone was to Adapt EVE to work on an exps system where you earned Exps by doing things rather than the passage of real time, and then combine it with say an adapted Anarchy Online for ground/planet based action you would see the ultimate Science Fiction MMORPG. Alas noone wants to develop more than one engine/world for a single game at the moment so we're unlikely to see it.
At any rate Yahtzee did surprise me, I expected comments about him being a Space Miner and how boring it was to truck rocks back to a base to sell. It ruins my plan to start referring to him as 'Crusher' Ben given his love of Anime.
>>>----Therumancer--->
EVE is based around the idea that the longest-term players are the most powerful, and by definition newer players/corps no matter how skilled simply cannot catch up to them. An important point when you consider the Free-for all nature of PVP.
Also if Yahtzee didn't like the combat, thankfully he missed the point that the most efficient way to start is doing things like mining astroids in high security sectors where being attacked by other players isn't as much of a factor.
*THAT* said, I myself would like to see a good Science Fiction MMORPG where you can do stuff both on the ground and in space. However to do this right would ultimatly involving developing 2 MMORPGs (differant engines) and then selling them for one price/membership fee. This is why people haven't spent much time trying to do it. So far the only attempt was Star Wars Galaxies, their space supplement being an X-wing Vs. Tie Fighter twitch game that didn't fit in with the rest of the RPG experience.
Honestly if someone was to Adapt EVE to work on an exps system where you earned Exps by doing things rather than the passage of real time, and then combine it with say an adapted Anarchy Online for ground/planet based action you would see the ultimate Science Fiction MMORPG. Alas noone wants to develop more than one engine/world for a single game at the moment so we're unlikely to see it.
At any rate Yahtzee did surprise me, I expected comments about him being a Space Miner and how boring it was to truck rocks back to a base to sell. It ruins my plan to start referring to him as 'Crusher' Ben given his love of Anime.
>>>----Therumancer--->
That's what it seems like, but you're forgetting about three important things:Therumancer post=6.70442.695902 said:
1. Each skill only goes up to level 5.
2. There are only so many skills that can affect any one type of ship.
3. A character can only fly one ship at a time.
In personal terms, you *can* and *will* catch up to the veterans, because there's a hard cap on how much benefit their time in-game can give them at any particular moment. Beyond a certain point, a player's SP tally affects their versatility from battle to battle much more than it does their effectiveness in any one battle.
As for newer corps, there are of course problems if you start out with a new corp comprised only of new players, but even in that situation, you - again - *can* and *will* catch up to the veterans as your pilots skill up and learn, thanks to the wonders of diminishing returns.
I don't get the people who say Eve doesn't have grind.
It has the exact same grind sandwich WoW does, with the possible exception that you can actually make a living with PvP unless you get repeatedly shot out of the sky - which you will if you try that as a newbie - but the grind is for money instead of experience. It isn't any less grind if it's a gp grind instead of an xp grind.
It has the exact same grind sandwich WoW does, with the possible exception that you can actually make a living with PvP unless you get repeatedly shot out of the sky - which you will if you try that as a newbie - but the grind is for money instead of experience. It isn't any less grind if it's a gp grind instead of an xp grind.
Therumancer, first, CCP does have future plans to be able to fly into planet atmospheres, beyond that I'm not sure, but I have heard of plans to include planets into the game.
Second, it's a common misconception that the newbie cannot possibly catch up with a vet. that's not really true. The only thing the vet gains is the ability to diversify more, train more types of weapons/ship ro train an industrial skill, but as far as one line of ships and weapons, he can only go so far, and a newbie could reach him within six months if that as far as battleships go.
Second, it's a common misconception that the newbie cannot possibly catch up with a vet. that's not really true. The only thing the vet gains is the ability to diversify more, train more types of weapons/ship ro train an industrial skill, but as far as one line of ships and weapons, he can only go so far, and a newbie could reach him within six months if that as far as battleships go.
The grind's there if you can't think of anything else at that moment, or if you're one of the specimens who enjoys that sort of thing, but people have found other ways. Istvaan Shogatsu and his Guiding Hand Social Club, "mercenaries" who specialise in infiltrating and ripping off their contract's targets spring to mind as a famous example, but there are other ways. The key is that you're expected to come up with them yourself, and the grind is just what you do if you're out of ideas. Once again, no neon signs.insanelich post=6.70442.695948 said:
I been watching Yath"ZZZ" from the start, and while it started funny, and i thought he actually knows how to review a mmorpg game. You actually don't Y. While EVE Online has many week points, most of them you pointed out are not. You have a cocky opinion which is funny sometimes, but you don't digg enough to actually see a game and his features, so lately is not even funny..
You know what i understand from your review about the game?
"I am lassy Aussie Ass on cracks, and i cannot play deep, complex games, i just wanna shoot things, and also get all from the start, if possible". Also the "cliche" about Geeks, please thats so 90's, you didn't evolve ? Everybody has a hobby, a drug, anything. I don't consider anybody geek, and i am not one or maybe i am sometimes, who cares.
EVE Online has different target then your WOW example, where they targeted to be played by your dog and the crack whore in the front of the Naughty Bar you visit to get inspiration( Accessibility ? PFF! Money! ). EVE has 300k subscribers for a reason, it has the harshest pvp and the best out here, and also it very complex and PLAYER DRIVEN. You know where actually you do something in that world and you can influence it, participate in something epic. CCP Games didnt started to make a game to be played by every moron on the planet so they can get rich, tho i must admit WOW introduced a few standards, good ones.
-You Shoulded said about the PVE Content more, and why it good or bad.
-The PVP is far from what the hell u understand. It matter the weapons, modules, who attacks first, who reacts the fastest, who doesn't panic, who knows when to retreat and many other things. Not just clicking something or at some point.
-Player Created Content? From territories that groups are fighting for years, from Construction of Space Stations in rough space, from trading and manufacturing(90% of the items from the market are made by players). Events that generates content and keep players busy for years.
- Construction of huge ships like Titans and Motherships, it basically a fuking country there and you made a review after a 14 day trial, lol. Escapist dont be so cheap and buy him an account next time...
So please stay away from MMORPG GAMES. To truly review a MMORPG Game, it takes at least month(depends on how many features it has, the complexity and other things), because they are deeper then you average single player game that you can review it after 8 hours of playtime max.
In the last 6 months your reviews are worser, and worser, and not because i am fanboy of a game, but you started to miss features to review, and you just want to get a quickie in the game, where it makes you uber from the 1-3 hours and that's about it. You WIN!. At least you get traffic and people click ze ADS. HINT! HINT!
P.S. Played EVE Online for about 2 years, hardcore pvper, and loved most of it, but indeed i quited the game because of the carebears like Yathzee who lately are flooding the game, and when they see a powerfull group of 10 people(with real experience not EQUIP, Yazthsme), even if they are 20, they run...
You know what i understand from your review about the game?
"I am lassy Aussie Ass on cracks, and i cannot play deep, complex games, i just wanna shoot things, and also get all from the start, if possible". Also the "cliche" about Geeks, please thats so 90's, you didn't evolve ? Everybody has a hobby, a drug, anything. I don't consider anybody geek, and i am not one or maybe i am sometimes, who cares.
EVE Online has different target then your WOW example, where they targeted to be played by your dog and the crack whore in the front of the Naughty Bar you visit to get inspiration( Accessibility ? PFF! Money! ). EVE has 300k subscribers for a reason, it has the harshest pvp and the best out here, and also it very complex and PLAYER DRIVEN. You know where actually you do something in that world and you can influence it, participate in something epic. CCP Games didnt started to make a game to be played by every moron on the planet so they can get rich, tho i must admit WOW introduced a few standards, good ones.
-You Shoulded said about the PVE Content more, and why it good or bad.
-The PVP is far from what the hell u understand. It matter the weapons, modules, who attacks first, who reacts the fastest, who doesn't panic, who knows when to retreat and many other things. Not just clicking something or at some point.
-Player Created Content? From territories that groups are fighting for years, from Construction of Space Stations in rough space, from trading and manufacturing(90% of the items from the market are made by players). Events that generates content and keep players busy for years.
- Construction of huge ships like Titans and Motherships, it basically a fuking country there and you made a review after a 14 day trial, lol. Escapist dont be so cheap and buy him an account next time...
So please stay away from MMORPG GAMES. To truly review a MMORPG Game, it takes at least month(depends on how many features it has, the complexity and other things), because they are deeper then you average single player game that you can review it after 8 hours of playtime max.
In the last 6 months your reviews are worser, and worser, and not because i am fanboy of a game, but you started to miss features to review, and you just want to get a quickie in the game, where it makes you uber from the 1-3 hours and that's about it. You WIN!. At least you get traffic and people click ze ADS. HINT! HINT!
P.S. Played EVE Online for about 2 years, hardcore pvper, and loved most of it, but indeed i quited the game because of the carebears like Yathzee who lately are flooding the game, and when they see a powerfull group of 10 people(with real experience not EQUIP, Yazthsme), even if they are 20, they run...
I remember playing EVE Online.. I found it so insanely boring and unfriendly, I don't believe I played past the first day. I couldn't understand why my friend enjoyed it so much. I had more fun just fishing in Final Fantasy XI.
