Zero Punctuation: Evolve - One vs Multiplayer

Jan 12, 2012
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I'm surprised he didn't take a few more shots at the game modes only being accessible through the Campaign, so that if you wanted to go smash up a nest you have to commit to a long series of matches.

Edit: From zero to self-aggrandizing drama in only three posts. Must be a new record.
 

Diablo1099_v1legacy

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Good point on the progression model and it does leave me to wonder if many people are still playing L4D/L4D2.
I remember getting it for free one Christmas when Valve was literally handing out copies of the game to install, never got the chance to really hop into it with a few friends though.

Still, sounds like he had fun while it lasted, I wager there was a lot of salt in the chat rooms after he got the monster :p
 

Bindal

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Diablo1099 said:
Good point on the progression model and it does leave me to wonder if many people are still playing L4D/L4D2.
Nope, barely anyone. L4D lost its players because Valve didn't give a damn about the game (there are still bugs that had been fixed in the sequel - despite said bugs being added with the same update! And let's not mention the broken mapping tool, where Valve needed EIGHTEEN MONTHS to fix - but only one week for the sequel - and then claimed they didn't know. Despite the forum bringing that up basically on a daily basis) and the sequel doesn't have any players anymore because it's still the same broken mess it originally was in terms of gameplay.
 

Racecarlock

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"Eventually your interest peters out and you just stop. Here, I'll show you what I mean."

Well that was fucking ominous.
 

Diablo1099_v1legacy

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Bindal said:
Diablo1099 said:
Good point on the progression model and it does leave me to wonder if many people are still playing L4D/L4D2.
Nope, barely anyone. L4D lost its players because Valve didn't give a damn about the game (there are still bugs that had been fixed in the sequel - despite said bugs being added with the same update! And let's not mention the broken mapping tool, where Valve needed EIGHTEEN MONTHS to fix - but only one week for the sequel - and then claimed they didn't know. Despite the forum bringing that up basically on a daily basis) and the sequel doesn't have any players anymore because it's still the same broken mess it originally was in terms of gameplay.
Ahhhh, Fair enough.
They were going on about making a 3rd game right? I remember reading something about it having a largely japanese cast or something like that sometime last year.

/inb4 HL3 jokes
 

Lono Shrugged

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Thunderous Cacophony said:
I'm surprised he didn't take a few more shots at the game modes only being accessible through the Campaign, so that if you wanted to go smash up a nest you have to commit to a long series of matches.

Edit: From zero to self-aggrandizing drama in only three posts. Must be a new record.
Considering I will be gone and no one knows who I am and all I did was aggrandise others. I hope people on the site will be more vocal about their displeasure. The Mods are working overtime to keep things together.
 

Thanatos2k

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This game has all the hallmarks of a multiplayer only game which will be dead in 3 months.

Just like Titanfall.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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I basically played Evolve years ago, except it went by the name Left 4 Dead 2 survival mode, with mods. Seriously. Throw in a few aliens for the special zombies, a few new weapon skins and replace the survivors with your favorite characters from Mass Effect and its the same damn game!
 

Aerith

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Sounds about right. If there's nothing to be gained anymore, my interest in multiplayer fades away like it was forgotten by Leonard Church. Once I got all the good weapons in Modern Warfare 3, for example, it didn't take me long to fudge off to greener pastures. Same goes for Uncharted 3, really. So, an entire game based around this model is beyond insane. The only MP game like Evolve that ever fancied me for a long, long while was Counter-Strike. And, let's be honest, Evolve is nowhere near the same level as Counter-Strike.
 

Diablo1099_v1legacy

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Caramel Frappe said:
Regardless as to how funny Yahtzee was in this entire episode.. seeing him hitting the nail by the end blew me away.

Without a proper story, without a stable campaign or challenge- it's just all based on your determination to play. Good luck wanting to continue if you've got no friends interested in Evolve. As some mentioned already, it feels like a Left 4 Dead mod except it costs $80-100 to play which is ridiculous.

Really good episode you have here Yahtzee. I must say, even my IRL friends were excited about this until it came out... than immediately lost interest. I saw that coming when they wanted to charge you DLC that would make up for two fresh games. Like are you kidding me??
Well, turns out they were all mostly cosmetics rather then "Content", though I really do wonder how much they could have added if they didn't spend so much time and effort on add-on content that could have easily been used as rewards for progression.
Could have even helped that determination issue by providing extra challenges with decent rewards for it.

Though to be honest, I'm not really sure how they would even go about building a campaign for this, seeing how the gameplay is so focused on the 4v1 stuff.
And would this game REALLY be improved with a COD style story mode?
 

The_Darkness

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"Who is still playing Titanfall?"

*Raises hand*

What? It's a fun game! Sure, I'm not playing it 24/7, but it still gets a dusting off every couple of weeks...

Evolve, on the other hand... Yeah, I might give that a miss.
 
Jan 12, 2012
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@Thanatos2k I wish there was a way to check how many people are still playing Titanfall; I can see threads where people say "nobody's playing the game anymore" but no hard data.

But I'm not sure I buy the argument that the game being multiplayer only and likely to have only a small community within a few months means that it's not worth full price. I buy plenty of single-player games, play them once to experience the story, then never touch them again; it doesn't mean the game is bad, just that I'm done with it. People complain about the number of hours you can get out a campaign, but how many hours does the average person put into Evolve? You don't get a big satisfying ending, but you do get fun for as long as the community supports it (provided you don't have a problem with playing as 4/5ths of the characters).

@Lono Shrugged (Quote function is broken) Right, because this:
Lots of love guys and best of luck to you all. I am out of this hateful, badly edited den of negativity that I see developing. Maybe someday the seed of good times and intelligent discourse will grow on another site and I will see you all there.
is a strong statement of support for the mods and staff of the Escapist, as well as the people who still use it. It's easy to say, "Oh, those people who left were so brave and wonderful, they were the ones who were holding the site together," and a lot harder to quietly admit that you just don't like a website anymore and leave. If your post was at all related to the Evolve ZP, it would be one thing, but it's as if you typed up your dramatic leaving speech and were poised to post it as soon as you could in a thread that people would visit, and did so without even watching the video.

If you want to stay, stay; I'd be happy to have more people around. If you want to go, go. If you want to be banned, PM a mod (though it's fairly pointless, as all your posts will still be here, they can't delete profiles). But don't act like your post was anything more than a chance to hop up on a soapbox one last time, to try and raise one more argument and derail one more thread with discussion about the Escapist dying (because people are plenty vocal about that already) and condolences for your loss. I've seen you post before, and you're better than that.
 

sageoftruth

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Silentpony said:
I basically played Evolve years ago, except it went by the name Left 4 Dead 2 survival mode, with mods. Seriously. Throw in a few aliens for the special zombies, a few new weapon skins and replace the survivors with your favorite characters from Mass Effect and its the same damn game!
With just one monster who has one life, wouldn't it be a bit different? After all, the humans are the predators, not the survivors, this time. Do you mean it feels like playing the same game, like how the combat in Shadow of Morodor felt just like the combat in Arkham Asylum?
 

Vendor-Lazarus

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I've played some "familiar" mods for half-life 1 in my days.
Stop me if you've heard of them.

Natural Selection
Team Fortress
Counter-Strike (pre-1.6 I think..before Steam that is)

Oooh, and that matrix style slow-mo action one..yeah..that one. What a blast.

Anyway, there are probably a few more relevant ones I missed.
---
Putting away my colored glasses, I do have to completely agree about singleplayer.
I'm a singleplayer kind of guy, playing singleplayer by myself and preferring a solid singleplayer with multiplayer as bonus.
Otherwise I'd be playing some form of MMO or other.
 

Atmos Duality

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Hmm.
Here's a thought experiment: How long it would take for Evolve or any other game like it to become routine and droll if there wasn't any level grind?

EDIT: Since people seem to keep mistaking my little quip to include ALL multiplayer action games (my fault, I admit), I'll be more specific.

"How long would it take for grindy-action games like Evolve to become droll without the grind to keep them busy?"

The fact that there are match-based multiplayer games that remain interesting for a very long time without mandating grind-mechanics suggests that taking that particular game design shortcut isn't such a good idea.
 

IceForce

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So, are monsters just really OP, or was Yahtzee actually good for once?
 

GaltarDude1138

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I still play Titanfall.

But Yahtzee's right, there's not a ton of people playing compared to launch. Which is a shame, because it's super fun. It's on sale on Amazon for like $6 for the base game right now.

I think sooner rather than later Evolve will also be heavily discounted, not because it's multiplayer only, but because of all the DLC everyone says the game packs in. The publisher can just lower the cost and make back their money with the DLC on offer.
 

JustAnotherAardvark

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IceForce said:
So, are monsters just really OP, or was Yahtzee actually good for once?
I think all the forced human play. It built up pressure in his spleen (or other organ), so when he finally got the monster is was "You now have 1 minute to reach minimum safe distance" time.
 

QuadFish

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Dec 25, 2010
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Seems like a common trend these days. Create a fairly open-ended multiplayer game and then force people to progress through it linearly. Either give the game a solid narrative progression to tie it all together or cut out the restrictions, but it's just frustrating to be held back for no reason other than to give some sense of artificial progression beyond people's natural improvement in skill.

Here's an idea: make multiplayer games like Dota. You don't like the playstyle of that one hero? Try any of the other 109. You must have fun with one of them eventually right? Go nuts, buddy.
 

cpukill

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Atmos Duality said:
Hmm.
Here's a thought experiment: How long it would take for Evolve or any other game like it to become routine and droll if there wasn't any level grind?


...holy shit I wasted a lot of time in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Meh I don't know.. this all sounded rather obvious and wanky..
Evolve isn't really a game to play for very long, unless that is if you have a team and you are willing to invest more in the competitive aspect than the progression.

I personally have zero interest in the game, and the progression does indeed sound slow, but I wouldn't fault other people for playing the game, not all art / entertainment must have lofty intentions to be eternal and keep you playing forever.
That is not a sin, and that doesn't really make the game bad, just really not my style.

Also Yahtzee, I believe you may be a bit confused as to what GDC is, because it is not AAA developers / Publishers showing off (and jerking off). It is mainly just penniless indies trying to get exposure, industry connections and experience. Your version does sound like more fun, though.
 

FPLOON

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Now, all I can think about is wondering who would win in a fight between Gordon Freeman and Princess Peach for some reason...

Anyway, count me in on the single player front lines as well...

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the single player song?
It is the music of the player
Who will not be in the wrong!
When the beating of the health
Echoes the beating of your soul
There is a life about to start
The single role!


And I was so listening to the soundtrack just yesterday, too...
 

chikusho

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Sure, you don't get a big cathartic experience at the end of the game..
Although, you DO get a big cathartic experience every time you end a match; either by performing well and bringing down a huge hulking beast / four tenacious hunters, or by being obliterated and learning something new about the dynamics of the game.
I played titanfall a lot when it came out, and I think I put a couple hundred hours in it before I stopped. Yet, to reiterate Thunderous's point, I also play some single player games for 4-10 hours and then never touch them again. The quality of the experience isn't diminished just because people aren't currently playing it.

Also, all of the cosmetic DLC in Evolve is bullshit, no one should buy it. It's literally just a weapon color change for the hunters. Maybe they'll release something better down the line, but for now everything in their store is basically awful.
 

cpukill

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Atmos Duality said:
cpukill said:
...holy shit I wasted a lot of time in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer.
I know the feeling. Even recently.
*glares at Payday2 and sighs*
Really? Damn...I was actually seriously considering that one.
 

Diablo1099_v1legacy

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QuadFish said:
Here's an idea: make games like Dota. You don't like the playstyle of that one hero? Try one of the other 109. You must have fun with one of them eventually right? Go nuts, buddy.
While that business model has merit, MOBAs are kinda easier to design for several different characters then something like say, an FPS.
Think about how many "Classes" is in an average modern FPS, the game I think that had the most "Classes" was TF2 and that was because the entire game was designed around them.
The more classes there is, the harder the balancing act of keeping all classes fun and usable is.
Blizzard's Overwatch seems to have a good thing going, but for other game companies that don't get their income from WoW and COD, I don't think they would have the time or resources to put in THAT many different classes for multiplayer modes.
Closest that comes to mind is the old TimeSplitter MP characters and, fucking amazing as the MP was in that series, I don't recall many people enjoying playing against the Monkey characters...
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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sageoftruth said:
Silentpony said:
I basically played Evolve years ago, except it went by the name Left 4 Dead 2 survival mode, with mods. Seriously. Throw in a few aliens for the special zombies, a few new weapon skins and replace the survivors with your favorite characters from Mass Effect and its the same damn game!
With just one monster who has one life, wouldn't it be a bit different? After all, the humans are the predators, not the survivors, this time. Do you mean it feels like playing the same game, like how the combat in Shadow of Morodor felt just like the combat in Arkham Asylum?
Obviously its not 100% the exact game, but it'd pretty damn close. The gameplay is the same(depending of what map you play), depending on what weapon mods you have, the weapons are the same. Ditto for the creatures and survivors and sound effects.

To go to your Shadow of Mordor/Batman comparison, the likeness between Evolve and a modded L4D2 would be the equivalent of replacing Talion's model with that a Batman, replacing the Orks with gangers and changing the Mordor desert to a grey/brown urban environment. The exact same? No, but pretty damn close, and for $60 less.
 

Atmos Duality

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cpukill said:
Really? Damn...I was actually seriously considering that one.
Well, I don't mean to come down on Payday 2. What it offers for heists are pretty damn fun, especially with other people.

But holy HELL is there is a lot of grind. You need exp for levels, then Infamy (where you reset to level 1 and grind back to 100 again; gaining new permanent bonuses in the process), and money for EVERYTHING ELSE.
Several million dollars at least for one full skill build; plus 10-20 million more in weapons with mods (depending on what you require for your build; ~7 million if you're a penny pincher with INSANE card-drop luck).

But eventually, you reach the tipping point where you don't really need more money and exp; so you're just grinding through random heists, hoping for ultra-rare Infamous item drops (you get one crack at the end of each successful heist), while waiting for the next content patch/DLC to drop.

(FAIR WARNING: Payday 2 has a metric ton of DLC; most of which is paid, with some Free/Community stuff.)

Basically, I encountered a problem similar to what Yahtzee described; once I had done the heists, my interest just sort of petered out because there's no explicit closure. But while I'm also being fair: There are a lot of challenges presented in Payday2, so it's not directly interchangeable with Evolve's scenario.

But it sure FELT the same to me.

(My friends also stopped playing out of boredom, and a number of those challenges require 4 human players equipped in specific ways so...that didn't help.)

On the upshot, it didn't run me $80 bucks; not even with all the DLC (I think I paid around 30 - 35 USD for everything; thanks Steam Sale!)
 

themilo504

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Ironically enough I started playing titanfall today since I could play it for free, I like it enough that I might decide to buy it tonight since its on sale on origin.

Unlike yathzee I?m not against multiplayer only games as a concept, but I do think that companies need to stop trying to sell those games for 60 bucks, considering how popular free to play have become I would argue that having a entry price is a bad business decision if you aren?t call of duty.
 

garjian

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Atmos Duality said:
Hmm.
Here's a thought experiment: How long it would take for Evolve or any other game like it to become routine and droll if there wasn't any level grind?
You say that, but there are no level grinds in fighting games and I happily play them for years after release.
I find most FPSs frustrating if I'm losing, which to me means I'm just stringing myself along on some sense of gratification more than enjoying the actual game I'm playing... where as I can pick up some fighting game I've never played, lose for hours, and come out the other end still enjoying the matches, and happy that I've learned things.
 

Ridash

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Titanfall was a good FPS, but it didn't have enough going for it. It seems that Evolve has the same problem as Titanfall. I'm just going to pick it up on sale.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Well, this happened to me with Destiny. True, it has a story, but it's not very engaging and I just sort of...lost interest in it. Evolve looked like the same type of deal to me, so I will give it a pass.
 

Atmos Duality

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garjian said:
You say that, but there are no level grinds in fighting games and I happily play them for years after release.
Indeed. I better enjoy games based on execution than grind.
The thing about "grind" though, is that it can be added to virtually any game.

Some grind is OK, as long as the challenge is derived from the player's approach and choices rather than some arbitrary wall of numbers. (and I don't mean the kind used by the game's geometry and texture engine)

I find most FPSs frustrating if I'm losing, which to me means I'm just stringing myself along on some sense of gratification more than enjoying the actual game I'm playing... where as I can pick up some fighting game I've never played, lose for hours, and come out the other end happy that I've learned things.
I get that, actually.
There is satisfaction in self-improvement, including technical ability.
When I get my ass kicked in a properly difficult game, I don't feel the need to get mad, but improve.

It's why I used to attempt Speed Runs in games (which itself opens competitive opportunities even if the base game isn't PvP), or play higher challenge oriented titles.

Well, before my career and university beckoned.
 

LCP

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I want to say that Yahtzee should give The Hidden mod a try. Since it does seem to pull off the method of 1 vs group model quite flawlessly besides a steep learning curve and well. Hackers.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Actually... It was Halo that came up with this basic idea originally with the Juggernaut gametype. Everyone seems to have forgotten about it though.

Also, multiplayer-only games have been around for a very long time, Yahtzee. See: Unreal Tournament/Quake 3. (Although, to be fair, the multiplayer in those games was much more fully featured.)
 

Evonisia

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What I think is a bit odd is that some of the console games that have had some longevity often have a proper singleplayer game to go with them. Halo 3, Three of the Call of Duty games (CoD 4, MW2 and Black Ops II), Gears 3 and Battlefield 3 all have singleplayer campaigns that don't necessarily intrude on the multiplayer, and vice versa.

I suppose if you're going to market to the consoles, you best have something to keep them playing when their friends are offline is all I'm saying.

Arnoxthe1 said:
Actually... It was Halo that came up with this basic idea originally with the Juggernaut gametype. Everyone seems to have forgotten about it though.

Also, multiplayer-only games have been around for a long time, Yahtzee. See: Unreal Tournament/Quake 3.
I remember the custom mode "Fat Kid", a hybrid of Juggernaut and Infection in Halo 3, and it was amazing. I was so disappointed that you couldn't play it properly in Halo: Reach.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Evonisia said:
I remember the custom mode "Fat Kid", a hybrid of Juggernaut and Infection in Halo 3, and it was amazing. I was so disappointed that you can't play it properly in Halo: Reach.
Oh yeah, I remember that. I saw a Halo 3 youtube video once of a whole bunch of people playing it. Was pretty funny.
 

President Bagel

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They are certainly more permutations for a 52 card deck than there are atoms on Earth, but this doesn't come anywhere close to the number of atoms in the universe.

Orcboyphil said:
Why are you advertising cream eggs when they've been made shit this year!
Creme Eggs are produced in both the UK and Canada. The ones being made in the UK have stopped using Cadbury Dairy Milk chocolate. Canada's creme eggs are produced by Hershey, and use Hershey's milk chocolate.
 

webkilla

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Ok - I won't be looking at birthday cake in the same way for quite a while thank you very much...
 

angel85

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I work in a toysrus as the R-zone guy, so I spend my day surrounded by video games. A couple days ago during a slow period me and a co-worker went through the playstation and xbox games to see if we could find any games with multiplayer content. We found that almost all of them did, indeed the majority of them had it as the primary feature, BUT with the exception of some of the sport and lego games nearly all of them only had ONLINE multiplayer! That means you can't play the game multiplayer with your friend on the couch next to you, only with people online. It leads me to wonder what Sony and Microsoft think of gamers, do they assume we're a bunch of reclusive shut-ins who only interact with people online and not face to face? Plus my internet speed isn't fast enough to play games online in real time, nor could I get faster internet because my building doesn't have the infrastructure needed for higher bandwidth, so I'm pretty much excluded from these multiplayer games entirely even if I WANTED to play them. Of course I can understand that, the AAA gaming industry holding contempt towards poor people who can't afford high speed internet and therefore probably can't buy their $400 console makes perfect sense, but why do they assume we don't have any friends?
 

josh4president

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So what's the sequel going to be called?

I'm hoping for a Shinji Mikami-helmed title dubbed rEVOLVEr Ocelot where the monster makes those cat noises he made in MGS3.
 

Prankman

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I don't get why the lack of level progression once you max out is used as a downside when games like Counter-Strike have gotten along just fine without the need to shove fake, meaningless levels in your face in order to be interesting.

But then, I don't get the arguments about a clearly multiplayer game lacking a single player game. Might as well say that Wolfenstein: The New Order wasn't worth full price because it had no multiplayer, and therefore wasn't "complete".

Single player campaign doesn't equal content, and its inclusion is not necessary to be worth full price.
 
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I've just recently begun immersing myself in the work of H.P. Lovecraft, and 24 hours ago would not have appreciated the mention of Nyarlathotep. It's pretty cool stuff. In fact, I should go back and watch all the ZPs again. He seems to reference Lovecraftian mythology all the time.

.

.

.

...Umm, Evolve looks dumb. Yes, that will do.
 

Eilanyan

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Yes because nothing says sustainable fun and closure like being lost in Bioshock 1 like its Vault 101 (only in 2007) for 3 hours to get to the end and wonder why a bad N64 boss has appeared. Or the slow march towards nothingness that was Bioshock 2's ending (the only impact is how screwed up the girl I didn't care about was) and more dastardly of all was Bioshock Infinite "it was 5 hours be we stretched it to 9 hours and ending on a walking sim so you couldn't say it was overpriced". At least my $5 (which I paid around for the prior three games, $2.50 each for 1,2 and $7.50 for Infinite with Pass) for Titanfall got my 50 hours of actual "fun".
 

el_emmens

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So the entire first minute of the video was yahtzee's typical spiel about how multiplayer games are the bane of the mediums existence...again.

Also Yahtzee, not that you're reading but I'm to lazy to word it out like I'm speaking to an audice. I'm pretty sure these games keep happening because as far as game publishers are concerned as long as they're making money that's all the reason they need to do half the things they do. It's up to the Game Developers to figure out what is and what isn't working in their games, and their job to either fix what doesn't work or stop doing it entirely. And honestly I don't think any developer has the foresight to know just how long their games going to continue to keep players.
 

Aerotrain

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As soon as I saw Evolve in the title I knew I was in for a treat. I did not leave disappointed.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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I can only play two MP games CS:GO and occasionally TF2. Both games aren't about grinding for equipment. They're just fun on their own. L4D2 isn't about grinding, and I tried getting into it because I got it for free but it was too boring. There's nothing of interest there. It's just a painfully boring zombie game. Evolve looks like it's even more boring. I don't even know how do people stay interested in so many MP games that are out there. And the biggest problem is that these games won't last forever. Single player games are designed to provide you with a fun gaming experience without having to rely on other people and online servers. Just give me a good SP, preferably with a good story and I'm all set. And I can play it over and over again until I die basically. Like all the books and movies that I own.
 

remnant_phoenix

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Aerith said:
Sounds about right. If there's nothing to be gained anymore, my interest in multiplayer fades away like it was forgotten by Leonard Church. Once I got all the good weapons in Modern Warfare 3, for example, it didn't take me long to fudge off to greener pastures. Same goes for Uncharted 3, really. So, an entire game based around this model is beyond insane. The only MP game like Evolve that ever fancied me for a long, long while was Counter-Strike. And, let's be honest, Evolve is nowhere near the same level as Counter-Strike.
Yep.

Weirdly enough the one multiplier game I really got into was Assassin's Creed Revelations. The aesthetic was great and you actually unlocked a sparse though effective story as you leveled up. As soon as I hit max level, the game was like "now you can prestige several times to unlock all the hats and stuff!", but I had reached the end of the story, which was what was most interesting to me; I was done and never played it again.
 

Aerith

New member
Feb 25, 2015
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remnant_phoenix said:
Aerith said:
Sounds about right. If there's nothing to be gained anymore, my interest in multiplayer fades away like it was forgotten by Leonard Church. Once I got all the good weapons in Modern Warfare 3, for example, it didn't take me long to fudge off to greener pastures. Same goes for Uncharted 3, really. So, an entire game based around this model is beyond insane. The only MP game like Evolve that ever fancied me for a long, long while was Counter-Strike. And, let's be honest, Evolve is nowhere near the same level as Counter-Strike.
Yep.

Weirdly enough the one multiplier game I really got into was Assassin's Creed Revelations. The aesthetic was great and you actually unlocked a sparse though effective story as you leveled up. As soon as I hit max level, the game was like "now you can prestige several times to unlock all the hats and stuff!", but I had reached the end of the story, which was what was most interesting to me; I was done and never played it again.
The only AC multiplayer mode I have much interest in is Assassination (or whatever it's called). No targets, you pick em, you kill em. It's everything AC should be and it's just fun to do.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

Lolita Style, The Best Style!
Jan 12, 2010
2,151
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0
Yahtzee hit the nail on the head with out going on a rant like Jim needed to. A hundred bucks of DLC... On bloody freaking launch.

I've gotten away from the Multi-player options more and more, because the most fun thing about MP is having a group of buddies you can chat with while screwing around, and not caring about the objectives. At least in basically any CS style or modern MP...

The only games that ever did Multi-Player right as a pure concept were Tribes, and Tribes 2. Because you had the vehicles, before anyone else was doing them mind you, you also had jetpacks, before Titan Fall, and everyone doing their own thing still somehow managed to contribute to objectives. Then Tribes: Ascend happened and killed the franchise because Hi-rez had to give up to grind SMITE... But I Digress.

At least the Juggernaught style game can be fun when the monster is a really big threat. But I am not paying for a full game and then a ton of launch DLC just so I can have fun.
 

Prankman

New member
Aug 26, 2010
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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Yahtzee hit the nail on the head with out going on a rant like Jim needed to. A hundred bucks of DLC... On bloody freaking launch.

I've gotten away from the Multi-player options more and more, because the most fun thing about MP is having a group of buddies you can chat with while screwing around, and not caring about the objectives. At least in basically any CS style or modern MP...

The only games that ever did Multi-Player right as a pure concept were Tribes, and Tribes 2. Because you had the vehicles, before anyone else was doing them mind you, you also had jetpacks, before Titan Fall, and everyone doing their own thing still somehow managed to contribute to objectives. Then Tribes: Ascend happened and killed the franchise because Hi-rez had to give up to grind SMITE... But I Digress.

At least the Juggernaught style game can be fun when the monster is a really big threat. But I am not paying for a full game and then a ton of launch DLC just so I can have fun.
Except he was 100% wrong about the DLC. There isn't $100 at launch, there's $60 worth of optional cosmetics and then the $25 Hunting Season pass, which is for content that isn't created yet. And if people are really going to carry on about day one cosmetics, they need to get a life and read up how game development works. Day One cosmetic DLC is completely and utterly fine, and it doesn't effect anybody at all.
 

scw55

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Nov 18, 2009
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It's true about what you said at the end with interest. Especially with MMOs.
Which is why in multi-player games you should try and enjoy and find satisfaction in the sessions of play you do.

Enjoy that match of DotA2.
Or enjoy running that raid in WoW.

Just don't end up farming for flowers and eventually one day decided to never log back in.
 

StriderShinryu

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Dec 8, 2009
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While I'm no fan of Evolve (it can be fun to watch, but I have exactly 0 interest in actually playing it), I do think it's a mistake to call out multiplayer focused games as being lacking in long term appeal. Sure Evolve is looking to be TitanFall 2.0 in terms of it's staying power, but there are a ton of multiplayer focused games that are still being played and loved now by sizable communities. DOTA, LoL, Counterstrike, Starcraft, a whole whack of fighting games, etc. Heck, even MMOs could possibly be counted given how most of them rely on community and group activities for the veterans of the player base. Of course, none of that matters if you're not into multiplayer games but there's also a lot in those experiences you can't get in single player games so it's not black and white but instead what your preference is. In short, Evolve may be a multiplayer experience that grows stale quickly but that doesn't mean all multiplayer games do assuming you actually like them.
 

Darth_Payn

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Quite possibly Yahtzee's funniest episode yet! I really liked that bit where he just blew up at the AAA publishers and brought up GDC. I hope that means he's going this year, because I sure am (again).
 

SNCommand

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Aug 29, 2011
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Interestingly enough Order 1886 was released not long after and it seemed to be its complete opposite in almost every way

And we're probably going to see a lot more akin to Evolve as it got a 78 in metacritic while Order 1886 got 66

And before anyone points out the ridicolousness of metacritic scores, yes, they are fairly asinine, but it seems game publishers these days use them as the primary quality gauge

Another interesting point though is that in user ratings the Order 1886 is better received by the public compared to the critics, while Evolve is the exact opposite
 

Xan Krieger

Completely insane
Feb 11, 2009
2,918
0
0
Loved that last minute shot at my country's schools, the sad thing being I'm sure there are parents who will genuinely hate the game for having that title. Yes this is the south where I actually got a flyer from a car dealership advertising that I could win two shotguns and they spelled it as "shorguns".
 

Dr. Thrax

New member
Dec 5, 2011
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Wow, so this is pretty much the Versus Saxton Hale mode in TF2 but with less color, smaller team size, and more face-eating monsters.
I think I'll just stick with VSH.
 

nodlimax

New member
Feb 8, 2012
191
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I've played the game for two hours and banned it from my PC afterwards. It's just awful.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

Lolita Style, The Best Style!
Jan 12, 2010
2,151
0
0
Prankman said:
Except he was 100% wrong about the DLC. There isn't $100 at launch, there's $60 worth of optional cosmetics and then the $25 Hunting Season pass, which is for content that isn't created yet. And if people are really going to carry on about day one cosmetics, they need to get a life and read up how game development works. Day One cosmetic DLC is completely and utterly fine, and it doesn't effect anybody at all.
Day one cosmetic DLC? Fine. 60 bucks worth? (That is $100 AUD btw) We're entering bad territory.

It's bad enough games like STO which I barely play charge me 50 bucks for 3 end game starships which all behave differently and have a place in a varied play style. Am I saving 25 bucks buying the trio? Sure. Still I'm getting things that have a function... Cosmetic enhancements... if it were 10 bucks maybe 20 that'd be fine. 60!? That's a pretty blatant cash grab. 60 bucks cosmetic DLC that's as much as the game costs! Heck I'd swallow 120 bucks DLC if it had a gameplay function that could justify the cost...

This is at least as bad as what MWO has been doing with each mech release.
 

vagabondwillsmile

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I like Evolve's concept, but I don't think I like it enough to put up with what seems to be all the baggage.

BUT thanks the concept of Evolve, here is an idea:

Dear Capcom,

Monster Hunter Vs. -- One of the players is the monster. Make it happen.
 

Johnny Novgorod

Bebop Man
Legacy
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Very good review. I thought Yahtzee found more silver linings than usual, considering his despise for only-multiplayer games.

Atmos Duality said:
Hmm.
Here's a thought experiment: How long it would take for Evolve or any other game like it to become routine and droll if there wasn't any level grind?
Well, I spent years playing Counter Strike before I got bored, though even today I feel like playing sometimes.
The real question is how long before servers are shut down. Because there will always be at least 2 people who want to play a multiplayer game.
 

Atmos Duality

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Very good review. I thought Yahtzee found more silver linings than usual, considering his despise for only-multiplayer games.

Atmos Duality said:
Hmm.
Here's a thought experiment: How long it would take for Evolve or any other game like it to become routine and droll if there wasn't any level grind?
Well, I spent years playing Counter Strike before I got bored, though even today I feel like playing sometimes.
The real question is how long before servers are shut down. Because there will always be at least 2 people who want to play a multiplayer game.
It seems some are mistaking my little quip to include ALL multiplayer action games (my fault, and I can see why), so I'll be more specific.

"How long would it take for grindy-action games like Evolve to become droll without the grind to keep them busy?"

The fact that there are match-based multiplayer games that remain interesting for a very long time without mandating grind-mechanics suggests that taking that particular game design shortcut isn't as ironclad as the industry thinks it is.
 

AstaresPanda

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Diablo1099 said:
Good point on the progression model and it does leave me to wonder if many people are still playing L4D/L4D2.
I remember getting it for free one Christmas when Valve was literally handing out copies of the game to install, never got the chance to really hop into it with a few friends though.

Still, sounds like he had fun while it lasted, I wager there was a lot of salt in the chat rooms after he got the monster :p
ppl still play L4D2 its realy is not as dead and some would say
 

Xman490

Doctorate in Danger
May 29, 2010
1,186
0
0
The_Darkness said:
"Who is still playing Titanfall?"

*Raises hand*

What? It's a fun game! Sure, I'm not playing it 24/7, but it still gets a dusting off every couple of weeks...

Evolve, on the other hand... Yeah, I might give that a miss.
because one is consistently exciting while the other is a mixed bag. Also, wall-running and blowing up fools never get old. Granted, I've only played 15 hours of the game over the 6 months I had it.

I swear, it's good. It costs no more than $20 and is often down to $10 or even $6 like right now from Amazon.
 

Dansen

Master Lurker
Mar 24, 2010
894
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Prankman said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Yahtzee hit the nail on the head with out going on a rant like Jim needed to. A hundred bucks of DLC... On bloody freaking launch.

I've gotten away from the Multi-player options more and more, because the most fun thing about MP is having a group of buddies you can chat with while screwing around, and not caring about the objectives. At least in basically any CS style or modern MP...

The only games that ever did Multi-Player right as a pure concept were Tribes, and Tribes 2. Because you had the vehicles, before anyone else was doing them mind you, you also had jetpacks, before Titan Fall, and everyone doing their own thing still somehow managed to contribute to objectives. Then Tribes: Ascend happened and killed the franchise because Hi-rez had to give up to grind SMITE... But I Digress.

At least the Juggernaught style game can be fun when the monster is a really big threat. But I am not paying for a full game and then a ton of launch DLC just so I can have fun.
Except he was 100% wrong about the DLC. There isn't $100 at launch, there's $60 worth of optional cosmetics and then the $25 Hunting Season pass, which is for content that isn't created yet. And if people are really going to carry on about day one cosmetics, they need to get a life and read up how game development works. Day One cosmetic DLC is completely and utterly fine, and it doesn't effect anybody at all.
To be fair, most of the cosmetic stuff is painfully lazy. In different review they pointed out that they were charging two dollars for a blue gun. Yeah, I imagine it took them a month to do that one/sarcasm. Others are just generic textures draped over the different gun meshes. Nothing "wrong" with this practice, its just stupid when they are so half assed.
 

zumbledum

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Nov 13, 2011
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Bindal said:
Diablo1099 said:
Good point on the progression model and it does leave me to wonder if many people are still playing L4D/L4D2.
Nope, barely anyone. L4D lost its players because Valve didn't give a damn about the game
right now theres 4k people playing evolve, theres 6.6k playing left for dead 2. make if that what you will
 

punipunipyo

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Jan 20, 2011
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".. No sh#&% Shear-lock.." I was laughing my ass off with that one~ nice vid like usual,

PS: What happened to Bob? no BigPic, and no Movie review? vacation?
 

QuadFish

God Damn Sorcerer
Dec 25, 2010
302
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0
Diablo1099 said:
Blizzard's Overwatch seems to have a good thing going, but for other game companies that don't get their income from WoW and COD, I don't think they would have the time or resources to put in THAT many different classes for multiplayer modes.
My point was not really about the amount of characters, but how they're kept away from players. It makes sense in some games to restrict people from trying certain playstyles/characters too early (especially linear or narrative games where everything else progresses with it), but in a co-op multi game that puts so much emphasis on finding the role that's right for you it seems silly to cut out certain monsters from the start. Admittedly that's not the worst offence seeing as you still get all the hunter roles from the get go (at least until the DLC comes out), but I like being spoiled for choice.

Overwatch may only have 12 heroes but that's not a problem unless they arbitrarily cut half of them off from beginners.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Sep 6, 2009
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This is what happens when you sacrifice single player for multiplayer. Didn't help that the Evolve devs admitted that the game is a DLC delivery platform. Was basically them saying "F you, give us your damn money and shut the hell up."

Latest Steam report; 5,893 favourable reviews and 2,770 negative. Currently ranked 14th on their top seller list. Beaten out by about half a dozen or so indie games.

I'm happy the game is doing poorly.
 

Do4600

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Oct 16, 2007
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Bindal said:
Diablo1099 said:
Good point on the progression model and it does leave me to wonder if many people are still playing L4D/L4D2.
Nope, barely anyone. L4D lost its players because Valve didn't give a damn about the game (there are still bugs that had been fixed in the sequel - despite said bugs being added with the same update! And let's not mention the broken mapping tool, where Valve needed EIGHTEEN MONTHS to fix - but only one week for the sequel - and then claimed they didn't know. Despite the forum bringing that up basically on a daily basis) and the sequel doesn't have any players anymore because it's still the same broken mess it originally was in terms of gameplay.
Actually on all of steam it has the 19th highest daily peak population, more than Far Cry 4, Borderlands 2, Payday 2 , Call of Duty multiplayer, and Planetside 2. Despite the bugs, Valve at least knows how to develop for longevity.
 

Pirate Of PC Master race

Rambles about half of the time
Jun 14, 2013
596
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punipunipyo said:
".. No sh#&% Shear-lock.." I was laughing my ass off with that one~ nice vid like usual,

PS: What happened to Bob? no BigPic, and no Movie review? vacation?
Permanent vacation, yes.
 

JCAll

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Oct 12, 2011
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You know that bit in Monster Hunter where the monster flies off just as your paintball runs out and you spend the next 20 minutes running around the whole map trying to figure out where it went so you can get back the the game part of the game? That's basically Evolve.
 

C14N

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May 28, 2008
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I wonder why it is that some multiplayer games succeed where others fail? It seems that these multiplayer-only games often have a pretty limited shelf life but TF2 is a multiplayer-only game that's still being played 8 years later. Similarly, you can get a game like Smash Bros Melee or Civilization that still have sizeable cult followings, even though they have none of the grind or experience points that many of these modern games have to keep you coming back.

Multiplayer only seemed like a great idea. I mean honestly, the majority of people I know who bought the latest Call of Duty or Battlefield every year never touched the single player campaign, it seemed almost sad that they kept including it. I was quite happy at the concept that multiplayer would be its own thing that I could easily ignore without fear of missing out and that would stop taking away from my single-player fun but nobody seems to want to play these big budget games.
 

Jburton9

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Aug 21, 2012
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Great review Yahtzee thank you. Now I can pronounce Narkto, uhm , Nartha, Narthflaps ah crap...

Thank goodness for Indie stuff vs soulless corps continued release of AAA "product" a Simon Says strapped on top of a cash register. Boop beep boop, now give us money, this cash register can't run by itself you know!

Honestly, I held initial excitement for the game but the more that was revealed about it the more the ah bummer effect starting happening. Like many have said other than playing the monster, who wants to waste 10 min searching for the baddie or chasing the tracker hound? They really need to give the hunters something to do : )

It will be interesting to see if Evolve has a drop off like Titanfall. If so, I might pick it up on steam for a heavily discounted sale provided I am not already busy with my library backlog. *looks off into the distance* One day I will have the time to play them all.... lol
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
3,147
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Prankman said:
Except he was 100% wrong about the DLC. There isn't $100 at launch, there's $60 worth of optional cosmetics and then the $25 Hunting Season pass, which is for content that isn't created yet. And if people are really going to carry on about day one cosmetics, they need to get a life and read up how game development works. Day One cosmetic DLC is completely and utterly fine, and it doesn't effect anybody at all.
In Australia it's $100 and a bloody rip off, they can fuck right off in my opinion. Sick and tired of these over priced jokes, I've had FAR more fun with my $30 copy of Homeworld Remastered and Grey Goo than any AAA game has given me these last few years.
 

Olas

Hello!
Dec 24, 2011
3,226
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Actually Yahtzee, I decided to check and 52! = 8x10^67 which is considerably less than the number of atoms in the universe by most estimates which place it at around 10^79.

Just sayin.
 

Remus

Reprogrammed Spambot
Nov 24, 2012
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The sequel will obviously be sponsored by Velvet REVOLVEr.
 

Elijah Newton

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Racecarlock said:
"Eventually your interest peters out and you just stop. Here, I'll show you what I mean."

Well that was fucking ominous.
So it wasn't just me thinking that. It'd be a hell of an exit.
 

Galad

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Nov 4, 2009
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Racecarlock said:
"Eventually your interest peters out and you just stop. Here, I'll show you what I mean."

Well that was fucking ominous.
I understood that as him wrapping up the review with these words, ending it when you don't expect it, nothing ominous, really.
 

happyninja42

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May 7, 2020
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cpukill said:
Atmos Duality said:
cpukill said:
...holy shit I wasted a lot of time in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer.
I know the feeling. Even recently.
*glares at Payday2 and sighs*
Really? Damn...I was actually seriously considering that one.
Payday 2 is quite fun actually, I play it regularly. Though I do admit I haven't played it in a few weeks because I've been playing Evolve, and some single player games that currently have my interest. But I regularly go back to PD 2 and still enjoy it.

OT: I like the game. It's a fun bit of multiplayer, that has a cooperative design to it, which I personally love. I prefer the Evacuation mode to Skirmish, mostly because my personality isn't really geared towards direct competition. I don't like playing against other people as much as playing with them. So Evacuation is right up my alley. The mixture of maps and conditions makes the matches varied and interesting, and the mixture of different Hunter combinations requires you to alter your strategy quite often.

This game might not be for a lot of people, but if you like playing versus in games like L4D2, and really enjoyed it when you got to be the Tank on the infected side, then playing as the Monster is really up your alley. I've enjoyed playing as the Monster the few times I did well at it, but I'm honestly not that good against other players, so it has less appeal. But that's ok, 'cause I can satisfy my sneaky need in Solo mode and slaughter bots, improving my tactics. Still, I don't skirmish much, because assuming I did win against the Hunters, I feel bad for killing 4 of them, and possibly causing some heated words. But that's just me. Some people thrive on that, and really enjoy the Monster.

Overall, I like the game a lot. I like the progression system, I like the different types of Hunters, and how they perform their roles in different ways. It's not a perfect game no, but I enjoy it. Now if they could just fix the damn jetpack consumption bug, things would be awesome.
 

Vigormortis

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Diablo1099 said:
Good point on the progression model and it does leave me to wonder if many people are still playing L4D/L4D2.
The game averages tens of thousands of players each day. It's consistently in the top 20 to top 30 games played on Steam - even six years after it's release. And there are still Workshop contributions flowing in from the community.

The game is most assuredly not dead. Ignore the naysayers. They just have chips on their shoulders, for some reason.

As for Left 4 Dead 3, Valve's never said anything on the matter, but there have been a bevy of clues that it was (and could still be) in development.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/131719-Leaked-Source-Engine-2-Screenshot-Hints-At-Left-4-Dead-3
http://kotaku.com/valve-tour-leaks-left-4-dead-3-1036602962
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/02/12/left-4-dead-3-so-valve-are-working-on-it-with-the-source-2-engine-2687062

Now, whether or not we'll actually see the game released is another matter.
 

iller3

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Nov 5, 2014
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IceForce said:
So, are monsters just really OP, or was Yahtzee actually good for once?
Define "Good" plz ... from the gameplay I watched, being the biggest misanthrope you can be in avoiding people is how to be "good" at "monster". And we all know Yahtzee's got lots of skill at that. If the monster also cross-dressed, he probably would have enjoyed it enough to go back and play it next week too.

It kills me that the Hype-spewing arm of the press were trying to call this game a spiritual successor to Citizen Kabuto. It's like calling a Michael Bay film the spiritual successor to the Iron Giant just b/c they both feature a huge robot
 

Frank Slade

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Titanfall is the closest thing we have to Tribes right now considering HiRez has abandoned another one of their games yet again (surprise, surprise) to zero-maintenance-of-servers hell.

Titanfall is fun and varied, it offers multiple ways of taking out both players and titans, the combat is faced paced and takes quite a bit of skill.

The graphics are also very good and the movement is fluid and responsive, which is also a +1000 points for me in today's "let's put realistic movement guys where if you strafe you move slower". Yeah, I play video games to mimmick real life, said no one ever.

The only thing that ruins it is the Smart pistol, which is like an AWP on crack. Also lots of people play it, it's rare that I have to wait more than 2 minutes of a game to start.
 

happyninja42

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IceForce said:
So, are monsters just really OP, or was Yahtzee actually good for once?
Eh, they're kind of OP, or at least 2 of them can be. The Kraken and Wraith are both really disgusting in how quickly they can trash your team. Granted, the Goliath can do the same thing, but it seems to be a lot easier with the power sets that Kraken/Wraith get. I think the biggest problem with them, is that in conjunction with the jetpack consumption bug, it's really easy to get roflstomped. Since the monsters (AI or player) tend to focus fire one target until it's actually dead, it's hard to escape. The jetpack bug basically means you end up using up WAY more fuel than you should be for your quick bursts of elevation/distance. You're supposed to just double-tap the spacebar, and get a quick boost, either straight up, or out. It's really handy for escaping Monster attacks. The problem however, is that you will frequently end up using like, 2/3's or all of your fuel, on one burst, and now your stuck on the ground (because you don't start regenning fuel until being on the ground...), unable to escape the monster who is now eating/humping your face.

But despite that very annoying bug, I find the game quite fun, and while I personally don't like playing the Monster as much as a Hunter, they mostly balance each other out pretty well.