Zero Punctuation: Evolve - One vs Multiplayer

JustAnotherAardvark

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IceForce said:
So, are monsters just really OP, or was Yahtzee actually good for once?
I think all the forced human play. It built up pressure in his spleen (or other organ), so when he finally got the monster is was "You now have 1 minute to reach minimum safe distance" time.
 

QuadFish

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Dec 25, 2010
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Seems like a common trend these days. Create a fairly open-ended multiplayer game and then force people to progress through it linearly. Either give the game a solid narrative progression to tie it all together or cut out the restrictions, but it's just frustrating to be held back for no reason other than to give some sense of artificial progression beyond people's natural improvement in skill.

Here's an idea: make multiplayer games like Dota. You don't like the playstyle of that one hero? Try any of the other 109. You must have fun with one of them eventually right? Go nuts, buddy.
 

cpukill

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Atmos Duality said:
Hmm.
Here's a thought experiment: How long it would take for Evolve or any other game like it to become routine and droll if there wasn't any level grind?


...holy shit I wasted a lot of time in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Meh I don't know.. this all sounded rather obvious and wanky..
Evolve isn't really a game to play for very long, unless that is if you have a team and you are willing to invest more in the competitive aspect than the progression.

I personally have zero interest in the game, and the progression does indeed sound slow, but I wouldn't fault other people for playing the game, not all art / entertainment must have lofty intentions to be eternal and keep you playing forever.
That is not a sin, and that doesn't really make the game bad, just really not my style.

Also Yahtzee, I believe you may be a bit confused as to what GDC is, because it is not AAA developers / Publishers showing off (and jerking off). It is mainly just penniless indies trying to get exposure, industry connections and experience. Your version does sound like more fun, though.
 

FPLOON

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Jul 10, 2013
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Now, all I can think about is wondering who would win in a fight between Gordon Freeman and Princess Peach for some reason...

Anyway, count me in on the single player front lines as well...

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the single player song?
It is the music of the player
Who will not be in the wrong!
When the beating of the health
Echoes the beating of your soul
There is a life about to start
The single role!


And I was so listening to the soundtrack just yesterday, too...
 

chikusho

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Jun 14, 2011
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Sure, you don't get a big cathartic experience at the end of the game..
Although, you DO get a big cathartic experience every time you end a match; either by performing well and bringing down a huge hulking beast / four tenacious hunters, or by being obliterated and learning something new about the dynamics of the game.
I played titanfall a lot when it came out, and I think I put a couple hundred hours in it before I stopped. Yet, to reiterate Thunderous's point, I also play some single player games for 4-10 hours and then never touch them again. The quality of the experience isn't diminished just because people aren't currently playing it.

Also, all of the cosmetic DLC in Evolve is bullshit, no one should buy it. It's literally just a weapon color change for the hunters. Maybe they'll release something better down the line, but for now everything in their store is basically awful.
 

cpukill

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Atmos Duality said:
cpukill said:
...holy shit I wasted a lot of time in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer.
I know the feeling. Even recently.
*glares at Payday2 and sighs*
Really? Damn...I was actually seriously considering that one.
 

Diablo1099_v1legacy

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Dec 12, 2009
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QuadFish said:
Here's an idea: make games like Dota. You don't like the playstyle of that one hero? Try one of the other 109. You must have fun with one of them eventually right? Go nuts, buddy.
While that business model has merit, MOBAs are kinda easier to design for several different characters then something like say, an FPS.
Think about how many "Classes" is in an average modern FPS, the game I think that had the most "Classes" was TF2 and that was because the entire game was designed around them.
The more classes there is, the harder the balancing act of keeping all classes fun and usable is.
Blizzard's Overwatch seems to have a good thing going, but for other game companies that don't get their income from WoW and COD, I don't think they would have the time or resources to put in THAT many different classes for multiplayer modes.
Closest that comes to mind is the old TimeSplitter MP characters and, fucking amazing as the MP was in that series, I don't recall many people enjoying playing against the Monkey characters...
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Jun 5, 2013
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sageoftruth said:
Silentpony said:
I basically played Evolve years ago, except it went by the name Left 4 Dead 2 survival mode, with mods. Seriously. Throw in a few aliens for the special zombies, a few new weapon skins and replace the survivors with your favorite characters from Mass Effect and its the same damn game!
With just one monster who has one life, wouldn't it be a bit different? After all, the humans are the predators, not the survivors, this time. Do you mean it feels like playing the same game, like how the combat in Shadow of Morodor felt just like the combat in Arkham Asylum?
Obviously its not 100% the exact game, but it'd pretty damn close. The gameplay is the same(depending of what map you play), depending on what weapon mods you have, the weapons are the same. Ditto for the creatures and survivors and sound effects.

To go to your Shadow of Mordor/Batman comparison, the likeness between Evolve and a modded L4D2 would be the equivalent of replacing Talion's model with that a Batman, replacing the Orks with gangers and changing the Mordor desert to a grey/brown urban environment. The exact same? No, but pretty damn close, and for $60 less.
 

Atmos Duality

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cpukill said:
Really? Damn...I was actually seriously considering that one.
Well, I don't mean to come down on Payday 2. What it offers for heists are pretty damn fun, especially with other people.

But holy HELL is there is a lot of grind. You need exp for levels, then Infamy (where you reset to level 1 and grind back to 100 again; gaining new permanent bonuses in the process), and money for EVERYTHING ELSE.
Several million dollars at least for one full skill build; plus 10-20 million more in weapons with mods (depending on what you require for your build; ~7 million if you're a penny pincher with INSANE card-drop luck).

But eventually, you reach the tipping point where you don't really need more money and exp; so you're just grinding through random heists, hoping for ultra-rare Infamous item drops (you get one crack at the end of each successful heist), while waiting for the next content patch/DLC to drop.

(FAIR WARNING: Payday 2 has a metric ton of DLC; most of which is paid, with some Free/Community stuff.)

Basically, I encountered a problem similar to what Yahtzee described; once I had done the heists, my interest just sort of petered out because there's no explicit closure. But while I'm also being fair: There are a lot of challenges presented in Payday2, so it's not directly interchangeable with Evolve's scenario.

But it sure FELT the same to me.

(My friends also stopped playing out of boredom, and a number of those challenges require 4 human players equipped in specific ways so...that didn't help.)

On the upshot, it didn't run me $80 bucks; not even with all the DLC (I think I paid around 30 - 35 USD for everything; thanks Steam Sale!)
 

themilo504

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Ironically enough I started playing titanfall today since I could play it for free, I like it enough that I might decide to buy it tonight since its on sale on origin.

Unlike yathzee I?m not against multiplayer only games as a concept, but I do think that companies need to stop trying to sell those games for 60 bucks, considering how popular free to play have become I would argue that having a entry price is a bad business decision if you aren?t call of duty.
 

garjian

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Atmos Duality said:
Hmm.
Here's a thought experiment: How long it would take for Evolve or any other game like it to become routine and droll if there wasn't any level grind?
You say that, but there are no level grinds in fighting games and I happily play them for years after release.
I find most FPSs frustrating if I'm losing, which to me means I'm just stringing myself along on some sense of gratification more than enjoying the actual game I'm playing... where as I can pick up some fighting game I've never played, lose for hours, and come out the other end still enjoying the matches, and happy that I've learned things.
 

Ridash

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Titanfall was a good FPS, but it didn't have enough going for it. It seems that Evolve has the same problem as Titanfall. I'm just going to pick it up on sale.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Well, this happened to me with Destiny. True, it has a story, but it's not very engaging and I just sort of...lost interest in it. Evolve looked like the same type of deal to me, so I will give it a pass.
 

Atmos Duality

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garjian said:
You say that, but there are no level grinds in fighting games and I happily play them for years after release.
Indeed. I better enjoy games based on execution than grind.
The thing about "grind" though, is that it can be added to virtually any game.

Some grind is OK, as long as the challenge is derived from the player's approach and choices rather than some arbitrary wall of numbers. (and I don't mean the kind used by the game's geometry and texture engine)

I find most FPSs frustrating if I'm losing, which to me means I'm just stringing myself along on some sense of gratification more than enjoying the actual game I'm playing... where as I can pick up some fighting game I've never played, lose for hours, and come out the other end happy that I've learned things.
I get that, actually.
There is satisfaction in self-improvement, including technical ability.
When I get my ass kicked in a properly difficult game, I don't feel the need to get mad, but improve.

It's why I used to attempt Speed Runs in games (which itself opens competitive opportunities even if the base game isn't PvP), or play higher challenge oriented titles.

Well, before my career and university beckoned.
 

LCP

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I want to say that Yahtzee should give The Hidden mod a try. Since it does seem to pull off the method of 1 vs group model quite flawlessly besides a steep learning curve and well. Hackers.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Actually... It was Halo that came up with this basic idea originally with the Juggernaut gametype. Everyone seems to have forgotten about it though.

Also, multiplayer-only games have been around for a very long time, Yahtzee. See: Unreal Tournament/Quake 3. (Although, to be fair, the multiplayer in those games was much more fully featured.)
 

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
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What I think is a bit odd is that some of the console games that have had some longevity often have a proper singleplayer game to go with them. Halo 3, Three of the Call of Duty games (CoD 4, MW2 and Black Ops II), Gears 3 and Battlefield 3 all have singleplayer campaigns that don't necessarily intrude on the multiplayer, and vice versa.

I suppose if you're going to market to the consoles, you best have something to keep them playing when their friends are offline is all I'm saying.

Arnoxthe1 said:
Actually... It was Halo that came up with this basic idea originally with the Juggernaut gametype. Everyone seems to have forgotten about it though.

Also, multiplayer-only games have been around for a long time, Yahtzee. See: Unreal Tournament/Quake 3.
I remember the custom mode "Fat Kid", a hybrid of Juggernaut and Infection in Halo 3, and it was amazing. I was so disappointed that you couldn't play it properly in Halo: Reach.