Zero Punctuation: Grand Theft Auto 5

[Andy Shandy]

Sounds like I was right to avoid this, for the moment at least. Also sounds about on the same sort of wavelength as Tito's review too. Interesting to see that it hasn't had the same amount of fanboy rage about it.

Did you read Tito's review? It wasn't "fanboy rage" and was well justified considering Tito gets paid to review games and he makes a review that does nothing but complain about the story, state things that are demonstrably false (I explained this in the "worst reviews" thread if you care to know what I am talking about) and then ends it by giving it a good score.

If he didn't like the game, that's valid, but doing nothing but complain about one aspect of the game and then giving it a good score shows a whole new degree to unprofessionalism that I had only seen on Gamefaqs user reviews before that.

But yes, call it "fanboy rage" and say that people were just "mad it didn't get a perfect score" because apparently strawman arguments are the norm on the Escapist forums and from the Escapist staff.

Yes, I did read it, and I'll call it fanboy rage because that's what quite a bit of it was, new users signing up specifically to whine that their precious GTA V didn't get a perfect score. Although I will admit at least it wasn't as bad as what it was over at Gamespot.

 

[baconmaster]

GTAV is easily my favorite entry of the series, but I agree with a lot of the points made here. Basically the same story as every other time he reviewed a game I liked (except for the Last of Us, but I think he reviewed that after reading a plot summary on wikipedia and watching a couple of gameplay videos.)

People will probably rage anyway. GTA is a series that gets stupidly high praise even when it's clunky and boring

 

[IamLEAM1983]

This whole "SR versus GTA" thing is nothing short of silly. It's like pretending that Skyrim and Dark Souls are competing games. A person is perfectly capable of enjoying both, I think I'm living proof of that. This whole idea that you need to knock one game because you like another is just childish.

It certainly is silly, but try explaining to my mother and grandmother that no matter which spaghetti sauce company you favour, you're still eating goddamn spaghetti. If this proves anything, it's that the details matter to some people. I enjoy a fuckton of different sauces and I've been warming up to GTA V through watching Let's Plays and Longplays - but the fact remains that my original post obviously details a personal judgment.

With cynicism and dry realism being all the rage in terms of game development, I found myself naturally gravitating towards the one title that offered me a break from all this. I'm still lukewarm towards GTA V largely because of its tone, not because I'm somehow unable to perceive that someone else might find its mechanics more rewarding.

 

[Pink Gregory]

I hooted like a loon at that final joke. I'm a bad person.

Having more than 2-3 people writing a single character's dialogue is a terrible idea. Even then, it's really one writing and two editing.

So comics are a horrible idea?
You know how many people have written dialog for spiderman? Still manages to be a consistent character.

I love ZP but if you believe the characters are poorly written just because Yahtzee told you so, maybe you should avoid games as a whole.

Do single issues of comics have multiple dialogue writers? I'm likening a single game to a single comic issue, not a long-running character.

Also, you're being massively presumptuous; I didn't mention anything about the writing of GTAV, naturally I haven't played it so I can't comment, I just thought that the idea of writing by committee isn't the best approach. I got the impression that Yahtzee was insinuating that he felt there was a design by committee approach to the writing.

Huh, well it would appear I was wrong, only three writers credited on IMDB.

 

[mike1921]

So basically the impression I got from this was this did not deserve that billion dollars in sales it got and was basically just GTA IV minus the escort missions.

Yeah....I'll just stick to Saint's Row from now on. GTA has lost me as a franchise.

That's not even close to anything the video was stating.

Yes, please stick to saints row. Starting to see why people don't appreciate the work that went into that game either.

Honestly, who cares how much work went into it? You're not buying the labor, you're buying the results of that labor.

 

[Fox12]

Heroic army of Escapist critics and commentators forming up to face the hordes of GTA5 fanboys, flame shields in hand, like the soldiers at Thermopylae.

Look around and realize there aren't any fanboys.

 

[Carrots_macduff]

I have yet to hear a reasonable response when I ask people why they enjoy the GTA series

then pull your fingers out of your ears. there are many things to like about the series, maybe just not things for YOU to like.

but thats cool, one mans brilliance is another mans squishy, rancid poo

 

[Carrots_macduff]

There Escapist, is that enough 'fanboy rage' for you?

i find it deliciously arrogant that people try to preempt fanboy bitching by bitching about fanboys

 

[AgentLampshade]

Having just completed the main story I can definitely agree about the plot threads and the lack of overarching thread.

Spoiler: End game spoilys

The end mission (assuming you chose option C) is you killing everyone who pissed you off. While this is implemented pretty well in that you can switch characters at any point to kill the target, I simply didn't care about them.

Steve Haynes was actually pretty funny, and I would have liked him to have more screen time and possibly become the main antagonist. Wei Cheng seemed to forget Trevor even existed at that point so he should have been an earlier target. Stretch made for a good antagonist for Frank but again, should have been killed earlier so we could focus on the main antagonist. Devin Weston was also an okay character, and probably made for the best antagonist.

A game like GTA needs a main antagonist to drive the plot. Even GTAIV had this. Dmitri was an unlikeable asshole, but that's what made him such a great antagonist. You always had the feeling he was just behind you with a gun to your head. In GTAV, there's so many guns pointed at people it's tough to care.

Not sure where he's getting the "poorly written characters" from. It's a satire of crime, not an accurate criminal sim aiming for Oscar-quality dialogue.

Oh wait, hold on. I wish there was a mission in GTAV where you rob a bank by following this plan: "We walk in, wave the gun around, and leave very rich men."

 

[JamesStone]

Aaaaaahhh, the scout of the fanboy rage finally arrived. Finally gave up on trying to connect to GTA Online mate?

And I won't even bother going into your affirmations (it IS a matter of opinion, a very poorly justified opinion in your case) besides the glitchy part. You do know it's purposefully glitchy? Because they're taking down a simulation? And creating these glitches? Let me guess, it gets glitchier closer to Rift Events [rolls eyes].

It's funny how you call me a fanboy. First off, this is the first GTA game I've ever purchased. I've never even played any of the other ones for more than half an hour. I liked Red Dead Redemption and LA Noire, but that would hardly make me a fanboy. You won't even go into anything else I say because absolutely nothing I said would have pinned me as a fanboy, you're just looking for a random insult. I also haven't even tried connecting to GTA online yet because I knew it was going to be a mess ever since they announced that there would be an online mode.

And really? Purposefully glitchy? I wasn't even talking about the graphical glitches. I'm not stupid. I'm talking about the fact that sometimes cars would literally run me off the road for no reason. There were times when I saw a car stuck under a semi freaking out until they both exploded. Cars were stuck in trees. Bullets often simply didn't connect. You can't just say "well it's a simulation so it's supposed to happen!" And you call me a fanboy.

Oh no, my dear friend. I called you a scout. Scout. Scoooooooooooooooooout. Fanboys do then to present better points. A scout of fanboy rage simply marks the territory to be desolated by the mindless sheep. Sometimes it works, others not so much. But you're still just a scout.

Second, I wasn't talking about visual glitches either. Notice how most of the glitches happen inside the simulation. I have experienced some of the same glitches as you, with higher frequency at the endgame, but the Zinyak battle? None.

Third, your points are very subjective and shallow. I did not wish to discuss them for that reason and still don't. I'm just calling you out on it because you need some actual arguments to support those claims.

 

[Atmos Duality]

So, in brief: "Bland unlikeable characters, non-existent story, has better driving than GTA4."
And that is why I don't make any purchasing decisions based on Zero Punctuation, or Yahtzee in general, because it didn't tell me a whole lot about the game.

Well, maybe GTA5 will blow my mind a year from now when the more whiny nutters vocal fans have shut their collective yaps so I can form an honest, actual opinion on the game without having to deal with the Ordo Hereticus mob mentality.

 

[JamesStone]

Aaaaaahhh, the scout of the fanboy rage finally arrived. Finally gave up on trying to connect to GTA Online mate?

And I won't even bother going into your affirmations (it IS a matter of opinion, a very poorly justified opinion in your case) besides the glitchy part. You do know it's purposefully glitchy? Because they're taking down a simulation? And creating these glitches? Let me guess, it gets glitchier closer to Rift Events [rolls eyes].

SOMEONE HAS ARRIVED THAT DISAGREES WITH THE REVIEW?! HE MUST BE A FANBOY! HEY EVERYONE LOOK A FANBOY! LET'S INSULT HIM WITHOUT ADDRESSING ANY OF HIS POINT!

Seriously, posts like this are by far the least valued posts on this thread. More people have come on here to make posts decrying fans and saying how up in arms the fans will get over this video then people actually responding to the video in either a positive or negative aspect. Then you find the first post that has some valid criticism to the content of the video, and suddenly you attempt to blur it out by attacking the person behind the post, shooting off uncalled for insults, and then dismissing the point of it entirely. There's a word for that type of attitude you know.

Fanboy.

Take off the blinders that are knee jerk reactions, and actually reread what was stated in that post. Then please go and address some of the points, and discuss what you disagree with him on. Otherwise you come off far, far worse than what else is being said around you.

Snip

I have to agree with you here Layton, this video did seem pretty shallow to me as well, though you put it better than I could so I won't really reiterate much of what I agree with you on. I will say though that I would have liked to here what specific points in the game he felt were the ones that stood out poorly, but it's pretty vague when it comes down to it.

I agree with him that I was disappointed on the heists and how to plan them, some additional steps would have been nice, and perhaps ways of helping improve your potential heist members stats outside of the actual heists themselves would have been good (Say you go robbing liquor stores with them or something), but I'm not sure what exactly he's going on about when he says they fail you for no reason and such. I mean if you got in the wrong car when trying to leave or something like that, you probably failed because you weren't in the vehicle with the loot and would have left it behind or something like that. Same with not following the route and the like. I mean, how often do you watch a heist movie or something where the entire thing is based off of improvising the next step. Almost all start with a carefully laid out plan that is then attempted to be executed as close as possible.

Also, going back and watching his GTA IV review, I find it funny that he comments on other videos about companies trying to squeeze the most of what they can out of game franchises until they're dead, but then, years later, goes on and attempts to sell the exact same joke again and again about the numbering in games. But I really went back more to compare what he said now to what he said then, and I find it funny how he's complaining about some of the opposites back then. Such as when he criticized GTA IV for being bogged down by tutorials, but then flips on GTA V for not holding your hand enough when given new stuff to do.

Notice how I didn't even defended the review. Yes it was shallow and not one of Yathzee's best works (on of the worst actually, in my opinion). I agree with his points about the review, but his arguments about it AND Saints Row are based on subjective opinions which he tries to pass out as facts. I highly dislike these types of arguments so I called him on it.

Third, I never called him a fanboy. I called him a scout. As in, the guys who present misinformation by the way of an unsubstantial edgy opinion, and unnintencionally flare the discussion to REAL fanboys to come and trash the place. Sometimes it works, others doesn't. But he's no fanboy. He's a scout of fanboy rage. Different. Very different.

 

[mattaui]

I think they got the balance just right with V, having gone too far towards the serious narrative side of things with IV. They kept the parts that worked while returning a bit of the crazy and the zany aspects from 3. I've had a great time with the substantial amount of dialog that the three main characters have, and the different ways each of them experiences the world.

The world itself is the centerpiece for me, which Yahtzee seems to dismiss as 'just stuff to do', but it's supposed to be a sandbox and it actually has some sandboxy aspects to it. Also, and maybe it's because I've spent a fair amount of time around Los Angeles, but man they nailed the look and feel of certain parts of it so well that it's uncanny.

Yes, I find the supercops a little annoying, but at the same time it felt like they were almost too easy to dismiss in recent entries in the series. This does make you less likely to simply mow down people unless you're planning on a proper rampage, and then you just need to have a good escape route and hiding place staked out.

I played and enjoyed Saints Row 3 by the way, but sometimes it's nice to have a game that isn't just too outlandish and over the top.

 

[BX3]

Looking through the comments and once again there's more posts talking about irrational fanboy rage than actual irrational fanboy rage.

Can someone please explain this fucking phenomenon to me? Maybe if I know the mentality behind it, it won't irk me so damn much every time I see it.

 

[Censorme]

Different strokes for different folks, but holy gremlins does this game ever polarize gamers.

I hated GTA 4 so much, but playing as Michael feels like playing GTA 3/Vice City again. Playing as Franklin feels like playing San Andreas. Playing as Trevor feels like (finally being represented as a crazy Canadian and) playing Lynch from "Kane and Lynch". I see a universe paying tribute and expanding on what worked well in the past (which is what a sequel is supposed to do!) Playing this game feels like watching and controlling a gangster movie (satirizing reality), and it is tremendously entertaining.

I wish Rockstar was ready for the apps and online content, but just how ready can you be for that? I thought it was common practice as far as online mechanics go to make an educated guess and then clean up the mess. The Social Club works fine though.

Fanboys should never be acknowledged, but on the other hand I get why they're pissed. No one is being objective here.
If I didn't see passed most of this hipster/intellectual/anti-consumerist bullshit, I would feel the bad reviews were misrepresenting and lazy too.

-"Poorly written" narratives and story. I take it none of you pay attention to the conversations in the car? Maybe you skip the cutscenes too?
Here's a quick sum (at my 30% completion). Michael is a deluded sociopath who is so bored/disillusioned that he subconsciously seeks excitement. Franklin is aghast/ashamed at his background and wants to excel like Michael did when he was younger. Trevor is the most traumatized of them all. Aside from being hurt and isolated his entire life because of his mental health, he is desperate for humanity/companionship and will continue to numb the pain with whatever he can until death. You could almost say all three represent each other at the different stages/levels of criminal life: aspiring, reminiscing, and then pushing for death.

Just WHAT were you expecting? Bioshock:Infinite metaphysics? Crime doesn't pay? As if gangster stories were for the culturally and morally refined. As if these GAMES were.

-"Not fun/boring". If you think guns, explosions, and murder isn't fun then you were biased from the start. You refused to review GTA as GTA. What were you doing playing this game?? The biggest piss-off for fanboys is probably that you were given a podium for an opinion that was neither constructive or worthwhile. Pretty much a paid troll who was trolling for page views.

Your opinion isn't wrong, but when it's missing information and context, then yes, expect the torch and pitchforks from the extremists. Your "meh" has the potential to be offensive (as retarded as that sounds). People will get absolutely butt-hurt about anything and everything nowadays.

The sales are going to hit 2 billion this month, and you're lying to yourself if you think this is solely because of hype. The ones that DO exist on hype are the ones that are released annually. Notice how those games are forgotten and discarded just as quickly.

GTA V has my vote for game of the year, even though I tenderly favour XCOM:EU and Hotline Miami.

 

[Poetic Nova]

I actually find V a waste of money, which I sadly bought on release day. Not worth the money at all if you ask me. Yes I'm dead serious.

Heists where fun and 2 out of 3 chars interesting but that's about it.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I know for a fact they can program planes to be easy to fly, the same way I know games can program sniper rifles to not bounce around like an epileptic on a trampoline. But they want to "simulate difficulty" and apparently, shitty controls are how they do that.

 

[Darth_Payn]

The thing I've noticed in all the advertisements is that they are all about a blonde chick in a bikini. I don't even know who she is (maybe the daughter of one the the playable characters?), but it seems whoever is behind that decision doesn't think the protagonists are appealing enough to sell the game.

She's not even a character in the game, unless she's just one of the random NPCs. I guess just showing a pair of breasts will attract people to your game.

That's a good point. The week before GTA V came out, that ad with that woman taking a selfie with her phone was all over Cracked.com, making me think I accidentally clicked onto IGN.
Now about today's video, Yahtzee didn't include GTA London:1969 among the other games that apparently use Resident Evil math. That last bit with the soldier on the stretcher caught me off guard. As for complaining about the characters lack of likability, Yahtzee is the kind of gamer who likes it when narrative and gameplay seamlessly work together. Perhaps he thought that the player characters (especially Trevor) were too one-note to be compelling enough to enjoy controlling. I know their psychotic personalities fit with the kind of mindless violence expected in a GTA game, but Yahtzee thought if Rockstar was trying to cram in extra depth, they failed at it.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Yeah, I knew you were going to hate it. Further justification for me to not buy it! Plus I still need to get Saints Row 4.

I can tell you firsthand that Saints Row 4 is absolute garbage and not even accidentally good. It's not even a matter of opinion. It's glitchy, boring, has absolutely no sense of pacing, most of the content is literally copy-pasted from Saints Row 3, the missions are insultingly easy, and the superpowers simply break the game.

...K, I found Saints Row 4 very fun. I loved the powers and enjoyed the tone and humor.

Why is it not a matter of opinion?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I mean seriously, let's do a play-by-play. The first 45 seconds is complaining about the advertising. Then he complains about the fact that it's named GTA V even though there are more than 5 games, a joke he's made several times already about the same series. Then he complains about GTA IV. Next he describes the characters, saying they're all poorly written but gives no actual examples of them being poorly written other then that Franklin is whiny and misinterpreting Michael's overall character. After that he brings up the problem of linearity within the mission structure and the poor flight controls which I definitely agree with. The rest of the review he talks about not being able to play online yet and then saying it was ok but not great. That's just simply weak criticism and it's really disappointing.

Fully agree with this. The man wastes too much time with critical filler before jumping in with a couple of poorly justified observations and some decent gameplay nitpicking. And then he's almost sorry to admit he found the game fun.

Look, I haven't played the game, I'm not a GTA fanboy, I've never owned one past San Andreas. But this here review is poorly coined.