Zero Punctuation: Killzone 3

secretsantaone

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Therumancer said:
Hmmm, I thought Yahtzee was a bit more in touch with science fiction and fantasy than that.

To be entirely honest, I think one of the reasons why The British tend to wind up in nazi-like roles, is because they revel in it. It has nothing to do with historical fact, but if you take a look at things like "Warhammer 40k" which is a hugely popular franchise, created by and run out of the UK, you pretty much have a game based around the idea of the oppressive regime of "space nazis" are the good guys. You even have heroes running around with names like "Davion Thule" in the video games, Thule being a referance to "The Brotherhood Of Thule" which was the occult organization Hitler apparently belonged to. It's full of little touches like that. However on the other hand it seems very few people sit down and make complaints about it.

I'll also be honest in saying that "Warhammer 40k" isn't the only British walk in the park with this paticular theme. "The Mutant Chronicles" was another franchise from down there that was never a huge success, but has managed to live on the fringes of nerd culture for a very long time now, it just keeps coming back to life in one form or another. The Brits/European faction in that one is again a big "Ruthless Facism is okay if it's justified by an extreme enough threat and a hostile enough enviroment".

Oh and let's not forget 2100AD and Judge Dredd, while set in the USA it's another UK creation, extremely enduring, and it's gone all over the world, and the authorities are hardly any nicer down in Europe. Again it's one of those things where "being a sadistic oppressive twat is okay if the enviroment is hostile enough".

Then we have "lesser" British works of comics, like "V For Vendetta" which while not as over the top as the movie, still featured a very oppressive (if far more benevolent than usual) future society as the backrdrop, without being entirely judgement of it (the name of the game here was how ambigious it all was). Then of course we have guys like "Warren Ellis" who is praised for his British characters, and almost all of them even as straightforward good guys are brutal and fairly sadistic, oftentimes knocking American "nonsense" like morality and the human treatment of the enemy when it comes to combat. I don't totally disagree with them in certain situations (as some might guess), but it's a notable trend.

So really, saying "OMG, where would you get this idea about the Brits forming an aggressive society of pseudo-nazis, it's so anti-thetical to who we are", is kind of silly when you can just point to piles of British fiction on the subject, a lot of which presents such attitudes in a fairly positive light overall when you consider the big picture.

I don't think Brits are actually a group of evil, totalitarian, jerkwads or anything in reality, I mean there is plenty of American fiction that can be seen the same way. An oppressive American goverment is actually a stock villain nowadays, far more so than using Brits (even if it's not uncommon) which is why I think this desician was made.

Honestly, I don't quite get the outcry, to me it seems like black people using a certain "N word" and then complaining profusely when anyone else does it. Except in this case, I don't think most brits object, and would probably wind up thinking the bad guys in "Killzone" are cool just for that reason. Of course I haven't really gauged overall European reactions. The worst I could think of as a resonable action would be saying that it's pretty derivitive with all the similar stuff.

Just something to consider.

If you really knew anything about British culture, you'd know it is extremely judgemental of facist regimes, due to having fought a long and bitter war against Nazi Germany, singlehandedly for the most part, losing hundreds of thousands of lives and living for 6 years in a state of rationing where basic supplies were in shortage.

George Orwell's 1984 is a much stronger statement about British attitudes towards oppression and tyranny than a line of tabletop roleplaying games. The British aren't as obsessed as much with becoming a facist state, they're more interested in what would have happened if they'd let the Nazis/USSR take over or become like that themselves so they can thank god they still live in a democracy.

A couple of years ago British National Party (a kind of pseudo facist/racist group) leader Nick Griffin was booed and ridiculed on Question Time which is supposed to be a serious question and answer session between various politicians/activists and the public. There was enormous controversy about him going on in the first place.

People aren't happy because after 6 years of suffering the worst conditions imaginable; little food, constant bombings, thinking German spies might be walking amongst you, worrying your husband/son/brother might die at any given moment, the knowledge that you're pretty much outgunned in terms of military force with no military help from any other nation outside the Commonwealth for a long period and hundreds of thousands of soldiers dying all around the world, damn right people are going to be annoyed when they cast British people as the very people who we gave so much to fight, while the good guys are a nation who came half-way through the war and barely felt these aspects beyond soldiers dying.

But then again I do hate Jews.
 

Jumplion

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Ah, Killzone. As I said before, Guerrilla Games wouldn't know subtly if it hit them square in the face. If you need an example, just look at the title.

I enjoy Killzone 3 for what it is; a good, solid, mostly mindless shooter with huge set pieces and action all around. Guerrilla Games get the small details down well, but I do agree that it's the core aspect that sometimes need tuning in certain areas.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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I've only played the single player demo, but KZ3 seems like an extremely pretty game with vapid gameplay and unbearable dialogue. If I'd never played a modern console military FPS in my life, I'd probably think it was amazing. Unfortunately...
 

Fumofu

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A lot of PS3 games use L1 for aiming and R1 for shooting. There are a lot more reliable, in my opinion, than its "triggers". Off the top of my head I can think of Metal Gear Solid 4, Uncharted, and Dead Space that use this method so its not too uncommon.
 

Giest4life

The Saucepan Man
Feb 13, 2010
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Aww shucks. I was hoping he'd do DA2, partly because I haven't gotten a chance to play it yet myself. But this review was good, too. I knew that Sony add was exaggerating about the motion controllers and the 3D.
 

Caliostro

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Jan 23, 2008
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Considering the gameplay I've seen at a live demo, I'm surprised he didn't harp on the Hellghast being the most ridiculously redundant and completely useless force ever created.


Seriously, based on what I saw, you have to actively work towards getting killed.
 

RowdyRodimus

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Onyx Oblivion said:
Urameshi13 said:
So hold on a second. I get that you're pissed about all the baddies having English accents. But it's developed by a Dutch company, published by a Japanese company, and somehow it's America's fault?

You missed the logic train on this one, Crosshaw.
It's cool to blame America for things without any actual evidence these days.

Insulting the US is like insulting Call of Duty or Halo. You don't need evidence or logic to your insult! People will agree with you, anyway!
It's kind of funny, but if a regular poster like you or I were to demean a country as much as Yahtzee does America in his videos, we'd be banned from the site.
 

theoverall

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Killzone is developed in Amsterdam, I go by their office every now and then, there's a big ass helgan mug on the building.

I have a feeling they had a shortage of voice talent and just went for "some british guys". The fit for the voice actor in the very first sequence was ridiculously bad.

Agree with Yahtzee on most of the points. Sony pressured Guirella into making some set piece moments, but those feel like they've been glued together by a bunch of monkeys, which is why the story makes no sense at all.

However I don't agree on the controls. They're brilliant. Apparently Yahtzee didn't try the third layout which maps the melee attack to R3 which makes it perfect. Nor has he mentioned the serious improvements of the "tank heavy" controls made since KZ2.

Nor did he mention the multiplayer which is actually the reason to buy the game. Finally the PS3 has Team Fortress 2-level multiplayer experiences. Using the Infiltrator class with the infinite sprint is just so much fun, not to mention the walkers, the nukes, the dynamic mission modes that switch on the fly in a single map and so much more.

The game's definitely worth it, just ignore the single player campaign and jump straight into MP.
 

UnravThreads

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bit_crusherrr said:
Yahtzee gets it wrong again. Most PS3 shooters, infact all I've played (COD:W@W, Black Ops, Killzone 2, MAG, Uncharted 2 and so on) use R1/L1 for shooting and aiming, you can also change the controls so R3 isn't aim in the options. Doe's he even bother paying any attention to the games he plays now? In the DCUO review he complained that the targeting system switches targets randomly as he moves the mouse, he clearly didn't pay attention to the part of the tutorial that tells you how to lock targets. It just looks like he's finding any excuse to rag on a game without checking if it's a valid complaint.
I think Yahtzee must just look at the case and review the game. For all his popularity and so forth, he's a terrible reviewer. Good comedian, sure, but as a reviewer? Nah, would take anything he says with an ocean-load of salt. I remember being particularly irked by his Mirror's Edge review.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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secretsantaone said:
If you really knew anything about British culture, you'd know it is extremely judgemental of facist regimes, due to having fought a long and bitter war against Nazi Germany, singlehandedly for the most part, losing hundreds of thousands of lives and living for 6 years in a state of rationing where basic supplies were in shortage.

George Orwell's 1984 is a much stronger statement about British attitudes towards oppression and tyranny than a line of tabletop roleplaying games. The British aren't as obsessed as much with becoming a facist state, they're more interested in what would have happened if they'd let the Nazis/USSR take over or become like that themselves so they can thank god they still live in a democracy.

A couple of years ago British National Party (a kind of pseudo facist/racist group) leader Nick Griffin was booed and ridiculed on Question Time which is supposed to be a serious question and answer session between various politicians/activists and the public. There was enormous controversy about him going on in the first place.

People aren't happy because after 6 years of suffering the worst conditions imaginable; little food, constant bombings, thinking German spies might be walking amongst you, worrying your husband/son/brother might die at any given moment, the knowledge that you're pretty much outgunned in terms of military force with no military help from any other nation outside the Commonwealth for a long period and hundreds of thousands of soldiers dying all around the world, damn right people are going to be annoyed when they cast British people as the very people who we gave so much to fight, while the good guys are a nation who came half-way through the war and barely felt these aspects beyond soldiers dying.

But then again I do hate Jews.

We're talking about pop culture, not the culture in of itself. This revolves around fantasy and how the Britan likes to portray itself, not reality. You'll notice I haven't mentioned ONE source of role-playing games, but tons of differant things all around a similar theme, including one of the longer running comic universes out there.

The point here being is that with all of this stuff being produced, I don't see where there is any room to complain about Killzone, which is just another work of fantasy in a similar vein. The only possible reason to say "well this is differant" is simply because it seems to be being made by someone who isn't British. Sort of like a black person shooting off the "N" word every 15 seconds and then getting all upset when someone else does it.

I never said the British were goosestepping through the streets to planning campaigns of facist world domination in reality, simply that there is a definate trend to show that within british pop culture. You can protest it all you want and say that it's contrary to the British mentality as a whole, and that's fine, I believe you that people don't act that way in public or go around screaming that idealogy, but at the end of the day it's a popular escapist concept. I'm sure part of the whole appeal is specifically BECAUSE it's "wrong" sort of like kids wanting to be pirates, or going through a phase where they are interested in criminals and seriel killers. People don't go watch horror movies and cheer for the bad guys (hey it happens) due to some actual desire to go out and committ sadistic acts of murder. People go to see "A Nightmare On Elm Street" to see Freddy Kreuegar kill people in messed up ways, which is why he's iconic, and they sell action figures of him, not of the teen girls who ultimatly defeat him. :)

Yahtzee has no reason to pick on this aspect of things like it's in some way unfair, because it really isn't.

If you want to get technical as well, for all of the "OMG, we suffered so much" stuff from World War II, remember The British Empire was at one time the dominant world power, and engaged in a LOT of very aggressive wars of conquest before overextending itself. For all pretensions of "oh well we grew out of that" it's foolish to try and claim with a straight face that people don't look back at the time when their people were dominant, and the techniques and tactics they used to do it. Because of how relativelty recent he was people will point fingers at Hitler, but on a lot of levels he wasn't all that differant from other conquering powers. You can draw as many analogies between a lot of these really fascist and aggressive British fantasy concepts, and the time of The British Empire. Heck, Kipling probably would have found a lot to like in "Warhammer 40k".

Every nation wants to publically present itself as being peaceful, reactive, and nice guys, well unless they are the dominant world power usually. When fortunes change pretty much every former power goes "Ummm, yeah about all that fascism, racism, conquest and brutality... we're really sorry, we've outgrown that" and then whine about being on the receiving end.

The bottom line is that there is no reason to get defensive about it, or try and deny it, it's all right there so you can't anyway. My point isn't to be judgemental of any point except the hypocricy of the complaint... and again, nobody is saying that the British guy on the street right now is secretly some kind of militant maniac, not even fans of the materials being mentioned, no more than someone who likes horror movies is secretly planning to go on murder rampages.
 

gamegod25

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Nile McMorrow said:
Also Yathzee please note, We didn't help the USA beat the Germans in WW2, We beat the Germans and the USA jumped in and got shot. Then they went and blew stuff up in an unrelated country.
Oh yeah you and France were doing just fine without our help, letting them occupy France and bomb London was just a trick to fool the Nazis into thinking they were winning :p

I keed, I keed :3 But seriously, I doubt there is any intentional racism going on. Killzone 3 is just a mediocre shooter trying to blind us with shiny new gimmicks to distract us.
 

kikon9

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Yahtzee, while I love your videos, you need to do a little research before you blame Americans for the British accent thing, the game was developed in the Netherlands.
 

Adam28

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Can't wait for Uncharted 3.... I wonder what the enemies are in that game.....