secretsantaone said:
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Now to tell the truth, I'm not that offended by all this. I mean they have to have some sort of voice don't they? I just don't understand why they would think British accents would be a good idea for villains they're attempting to build up as Space Nazis.
You're also arguing batshit insane things.
Firstly I never said the Nazis weren't effective, I said that they were facist and completely different to colonial Britain. It's bizarre you're even arguing about this. You then go off with a paragraph patronising me about the history of the Nazis then saying that Hitler was 99% right. Jesus Christ, I know he's been built up to be the devil by propaganda but if you think 99% of his actions and speeches were acceptable by even contemparary standards you're either delusional or an extreme right-winger. You then end with a completely unrelated conclusion where you attempt to argue that the 40k marines look just as much like Nazis as the Helghast. It's alright saying that they have elements of Nazi Germany. The thing is, the Helghast are actually fully designed around the Nazis. Have you seen their flag? Jesus, if you read the history of them it directly parallels the story of Nazi Germany.
You then follow it by saying that V for Vendetta and Judge Dredd justified a facist regime when the real point of them was to say it's so easy to sit back and let yourself become facist when confronted with a disaster/war/depression. I can understand how you might have got confused with Judge Dredd, but with V for Vendetta it's the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT.
You then go on to argue that typical British hero is a jaded cynical dickhead. With no evidence to back it up. There's no such thing as a 'typical British hero' probably because BRITAIN LIKE EVERY COUNTRY PUTS OUT A TON OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF FICTION. Seriously, if you really HAD to define a typical British hero, it would be an average guy caught up in extraodinary circumstances, which pretty much sums up 50% of all heroes. If you're really going to go down to it, 40K was way more popular in the U.S than in the UK which obviously means the U.S must be obsessed with facism by your logic. Britain puts out just as much grimdark cynical facist media as it does media about comedy gangsters in London, light-hearted sitcoms, historical dramas or Hugh Grant trying to get his leg over some girl.
I highly doubt if you asked the average non-Brit for some British stereotypes they'd respond with facist immoral Nazis.
It's like this, nothing I have said is remotely "batshit insane" it's simply the way it is. You can argue technicalities all you want, the bottom line is there is no answer your going to accept. The bottom line is it's a perfectly reasonable set up and set of origins for a group of bad guys in science fiction. No worse than any one of dozens of situation where The American Goverment has been turned into a group of nazi-like bad guys, or an oppressive stalinist regime, with people pointing towards things we've products both in and outside of fiction to support the hypothetical possibility. The bottom line is you don't like the fact that the British are the bad guys.
... and yes, for the record I am right wing on most things (but it's by no means universal). Hitler's economic policies and predictions of where the world was going were absolute genius. The overwhelming majority of the world agreed with me, and that's why he was the toast of the planet and a global man of the year. That is why what happened was so scary. It really was that 1% of what he believed that caused things to turn out like they did. The lesson to be learned from Hitler is that it's not these brutal, insane-seeming leaders that you need to watch out for, it's those charismatic ones who seem incredibly reasonable, and that everyone seems to like. People love to throw "Hitler" accusations at leaders they don't like, when in reality that accusation is most appropriatly thrown at the ones that they DO like or seem to have a huge following or the chance to assemble one. It's a warning about letting one man obtain too much power, no matter how ingenius, or right he might be.
As far as British fiction goes, well, just because you don't like the answer doesn't make it wrong. When the question "why" comes up, don't shoot the messenger even if you think that the reasons are faulty. Obviously someone came up with the idea, and it has enough support for there to be a franchise that has now lasted three games. Your argueing against something that has already happened, so points about why it never should have happened are kind of pointless because it did, and apparently people can see The British in the role of the bad guys just as much as the USA, Russia, Germany, China, or other groups. If you can present the US as Nazis in dark future fiction, there is no reason why you can't justify it with the Brits to the same extent. You can say "but, your differant, you actually have those aspects. We don't!" well, that same thing can be said right back. Pretty much every country that fought the Nazis has been shown turning into them in some work of fiction at some point, albiet some are far more popular targets for that (like the US) than others.
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As far as "V For Vendetta" goes, actually the point was that neither freedom or totalitarianism are entirely bad. In the actual graphic novel, Mr. Susan is actually far more of a good guy than "V" is. The society is also functional, with most people being safe, happy, and provided for. It's not like it was in the movie version. What's more a lot of the bad things done by the goverment were actually done by V, because one of the twists is that he has hacked into and taken control of the supercomputer that is being used to run the show. A big part of it was that just because V claims to be an anarchist freedom fighter does NOT mean he was right. It's actually pretty balanced overall, and THAT was the point. It was hardly a man fighting against an Orwellian regime, it was a revenge tale, perpetrated by a guy who really didn't care all that much who he hurt.
With "Judge Dredd", again there is no confusion there. It's made perfectly clear that it's not a situation where "it's easy to fall into these patterns in an extreme situation". It's a situation where those patterns are the only things allowing humanity to continue to exist, there are literally no viable alternatives.
I think it goes back to the "Judge Dredd In Oz" storyline ages ago (Australia) but one of the parts of the concept was that the Judges at one point had a massive debate on whether or not they should genetically alter people into subservience in order to main control and ensure survivial. They opted not to (though there was a rogue who wound up being the major bad guy of the storyline), the current situation being viewed as the lesser of evils.
The point being that the regime present in those stories is much like the one present in "Warhammer 40k" where no matter how bad things might be, or how brutal the authorities are, it's all justified every time the sun comes up another day and there are people to see it. Dredd is a straightforward hero, as opposed to a villain, because he's actually fair for the enviroment he exists in and does what needs to be done to protect people at the expense of intense personal danger. It's also noteworthy that someone who "liberated" the people from the tyranny of the Judges would probably see Humanity die out within a year (and I believe that has been mentioned).