Zero Punctuation: Mailbag Showdown

[yt2005]

I wish we didn't dwell on the whole Smash Bros. thing. Too much emotion.

 

[theklng]

It made me giggle, nice one, but I was expecting GTA 4 and this more like a SIDE comment.
PS: If anyone read my previous post, hate comments towards brawl are nearly double the ones even SUPPORTING brawl. Love comments are about half the supporting ones.

Since when have facts or accuracy ever been shown to work on any sort of Fanboys? In this case, Yahtzee fanboys.

There is a reason why this happens. Its called selective perception, encompassing selective tweaking, retention and awareness.

you make me laugh, indigo_dingo. funny guy. keep it up.

 

[Fire Daemon]

It made me giggle, nice one, but I was expecting GTA 4 and this more like a SIDE comment.
PS: If anyone read my previous post, hate comments towards brawl are nearly double the ones even SUPPORTING brawl. Love comments are about half the supporting ones.

Since when have facts or accuracy ever been shown to work on any sort of Fanboys? In this case, Yahtzee fanboys.

There is a reason why this happens. Its called selective perception, encompassing selective tweaking, retention and awareness.

you make me laugh, indigo_dingo. funny guy. keep it up.

See his finger? It says fuck you.

You don't fuck with Eddie or someone represented by a picture of Eddie.

This Yahtzee love is getting old. he knows you like his reviews, we all know it, settle the fuck down.

 

[g31st]

To the first point you make, I actually stayed up with most of the posts in the forum. The majority on both sides of the argument could be summed up by the emails he quoted in this video, whether they were defending yahtzee or defending SSBB.

You can certainly say that, but I disagree. Yahtzee did not address many of the more valid points in his "showdown". Like I said, since its his inbox, he could cherry pick the emails to make the "opposition" seem like total twats, and that's what happened. I didn't read the entire Brawl review thread (christ, but it's long), but there were a few things I spotted that were not in his latest video at all. For instance, he did not address his incorrect factual statement about having to play the single player to unlock everything. It's just not true, and he didn't own up to it at all. Maybe he can't admit when he makes mistakes.

He also claimed (more than once) that Brawl is a button masher and that no amount of practice would ensure your victory over someone slapping their palms against their controller. If you remember, he went into a big long rant about becoming "that guy" only to say, "but that doesn't happen in this game". Naturally, I don't know what's in his inbox, but you'd have to be crazy to claim that there wasn't a single email saying something to the effect of, "The fighting system in Brawl rewards patience and timing and punishes people who randomly mash buttons. As a matter of fact, it's even possible to kill yourself if you mash the wrong buttons. There's a shield button which thwarts almost every attempt at button mashing, and skilled players will be good at 1.) knowing when holes appear in their foe's defenses and 2.) exploiting them. If you really think this game is a button masher, why not go one on one versus a pro player? You should be able to win half the time, right?"

The majority of the posts I saw "defending" Brawl said something to that effect, and it's true. Anyone who's played the game seriously will tell you the same thing, yet Yahtzee gleefully glossed over anything of the sort in his "showdown". As a matter of fact, most of the emails were to the effect of, "You hateful person. Why don't you like anything? You always just point out the bad stuff in games," which is more a statement of the obvious rather than any sort of defense. Granted, if one side can choose what the other side says, it's not going to be much of a debate in the first place.

As to your second post, I've just gone back to check out your quote here. He does not say that the people who play Brawl are shit people in either this response or in his original review. He says that, regardless of his review, most people who play it already know if they enjoy it or not and that his review won't mean a thing, a point that was borne out in the subsequent posts in the forum.

Being a fanboy of something is bad, right? If you're going to lend any credence to 90% of this thread, fanboys are one of the lowest forms of vertebrate lifeforms on the internet. My memory may be hazy, but I don't think I've seen a single post in this thread so far which a.) mentions fanboys and b.) doesn't disparage them in some way.

You said that he claimed his review wouldn't matter because people already knew if they liked the game. That's true, but here's the actual quote:

"Reviewing Smash Bros. Brawl is pointless. There's a simple test. When the name Nintendo Wii was first revealed, did you ever seriously try to defend it on an internet forum? If yes, you will enjoy this game whatever its faults and you might as well start spamming my email address with hatred right now you miserable. fanboy. twat."

At the same time as he was speaking these words, there was a picture of a Wii player gleefully unaware that his T.V. was on fire and another in front of a computer with the words "HUR HUR IGNORANCE" above his head.

A bit more than merely saying, "My review won't change your opinion," he says, "Not only will my review not change your opinion, if you like the game you will hate me for giving it a bad review, because there's no other reason that you would like the game other than the fact that you enjoy Nintendo wanking off in your face. You're gleefully ignorant of what's really going on, because anyone with a brain would know that this game has almost no redeeming features." Forget any kind of middle ground that allows for someone who isn't a fanboy to enjoy the game because it's a good fighting game. Yahtzee's review immediately polarizes the entire world into two categories - the ignorant twats who like Brawl, and the enlightened few who can see Brawl for what it really is. Hell, he even plays Green Day's "Minority" at the end of his review. There really isn't a better way to make people angry than drawing a line in the sand, especially if there doesn't need to be one in the first place.

Let's say for a minute that what he said is true. Pretend that the people who play Brawl and Melee only play it because it's a Nintendo game with Nintendo characters in it. If you remember, he asked why unlocking Marth was such a big deal in his review. The truth is, Marth was considered a "top tier" character along with a handful of others in Melee, meaning that he was one of the best characters to use in professional play due to his speed and fighting style. Almost every tournament player learned to use Marth, and I can assure you it wasn't because they were all Fire Emblem 1 fanboys. Leaving him out would have pissed off the old Melee players to no end, because his style of fighting was very much about speed, technique and control, and it proved to be one of the most effective ones in tournament play. If Brawl's only appeal is fanservice, why the hell would people be so nuts about a no-name character?

Long story short: If the requisite for liking Brawl is being a Nintendo fanboy, and I like Brawl, it must mean I'm a Nintendo fanboy, which is both insulting and an unfair representation of the game as a whole.

Wait a minute...I know what's going on here! I'm getting sucked into a he-said, she-said argument! Lol! Bad g31st! No donut for you!

It's okay, I had some last weekend.

There's no need to play the he-says-she-says game; I quoted the important bit above. You're a growed up and you can go watch the Halo 3 review and look for a similar quote in that video. Don't be surprised if you don't find one.

As I said before, "let's get back to the good old weeks when we could watch a review, laugh about it, and discuss it like the reasonably well-adjusted crazy people we are."

I agree. That's the reason I like Yahtzee. At the same time, I'm not a rabid fanboy. I've never tried to proslethize Brawl to anyone, and I've never gotten on anyone's case who's played it and decided they didn't like it. Despite all of this, Yahtzee's review told me that by liking the game (for whatever reason), I was one of those unholy fanboys that people are so keen to hate. Maybe I'm in the minority who doesn't just lay down while someone who I've never even met in real life tells me I'm an ignorant twat for liking a certain video game.

 

[The_Guvnor]

This is the best one yet, good show yahtzee

 

[thahat]

To the first point you make, I actually stayed up with most of the posts in the forum. The majority on both sides of the argument could be summed up by the emails he quoted in this video, whether they were defending yahtzee or defending SSBB.

You can certainly say that, but I disagree. Yahtzee did not address many of the more valid points in his "showdown". Like I said, since its his inbox, he could cherry pick the emails to make the "opposition" seem like total twats, and that's what happened. I didn't read the entire Brawl review thread (christ, but it's long), but there were a few things I spotted that were not in his latest video at all. For instance, he did not address his incorrect factual statement about having to play the single player to unlock everything. It's just not true, and he didn't own up to it at all. Maybe he can't admit when he makes mistakes.

He also claimed (more than once) that Brawl is a button masher and that no amount of practice would ensure your victory over someone slapping their palms against their controller. If you remember, he went into a big long rant about becoming "that guy" only to say, "but that doesn't happen in this game". Naturally, I don't know what's in his inbox, but you'd have to be crazy to claim that there wasn't a single email saying something to the effect of, "The fighting system in Brawl rewards patience and timing and punishes people who randomly mash buttons. As a matter of fact, it's even possible to kill yourself if you mash the wrong buttons. There's a shield button which thwarts almost every attempt at button mashing, and skilled players will be good at 1.) knowing when holes appear in their foe's defenses and 2.) exploiting them. If you really think this game is a button masher, why not go one on one versus a pro player? You should be able to win half the time, right?"

The majority of the posts I saw "defending" Brawl said something to that effect, and it's true. Anyone who's played the game seriously will tell you the same thing, yet Yahtzee gleefully glossed over anything of the sort in his "showdown". As a matter of fact, most of the emails were to the effect of, "You hateful person. Why don't you like anything? You always just point out the bad stuff in games," which is more a statement of the obvious rather than any sort of defense. Granted, if one side can choose what the other side says, it's not going to be much of a debate in the first place.

As to your second post, I've just gone back to check out your quote here. He does not say that the people who play Brawl are shit people in either this response or in his original review. He says that, regardless of his review, most people who play it already know if they enjoy it or not and that his review won't mean a thing, a point that was borne out in the subsequent posts in the forum.

Being a fanboy of something is bad, right? If you're going to lend any credence to 90% of this thread, fanboys are one of the lowest forms of vertebrate lifeforms on the internet. My memory may be hazy, but I don't think I've seen a single post in this thread so far which a.) mentions fanboys and b.) doesn't disparage them in some way.

You said that he claimed his review wouldn't matter because people already knew if they liked the game. That's true, but here's the actual quote:

"Reviewing Smash Bros. Brawl is pointless. There's a simple test. When the name Nintendo Wii was first revealed, did you ever seriously try to defend it on an internet forum? If yes, you will enjoy this game whatever its faults and you might as well start spamming my email address with hatred right now you miserable. fanboy. twat."

At the same time as he was speaking these words, there was a picture of a Wii player gleefully unaware that his T.V. was on fire and another in front of a computer with the words "HUR HUR IGNORANCE" above his head.

A bit more than merely saying, "My review won't change your opinion," he says, "Not only will my review not change your opinion, if you like the game you will hate me for giving it a bad review, because there's no other reason that you would like the game other than the fact that you enjoy Nintendo wanking off in your face. You're gleefully ignorant of what's really going on, because anyone with a brain would know that this game has almost no redeeming features." Forget any kind of middle ground that allows for someone who isn't a fanboy to enjoy the game because it's a good fighting game. Yahtzee's review immediately polarizes the entire world into two categories - the ignorant twats who like Brawl, and the enlightened few who can see Brawl for what it really is. Hell, he even plays Green Day's "Minority" at the end of his review. There really isn't a better way to make people angry than drawing a line in the sand, especially if there doesn't need to be one in the first place.

Let's say for a minute that what he said is true. Pretend that the people who play Brawl and Melee only play it because it's a Nintendo game with Nintendo characters in it. If you remember, he asked why unlocking Marth was such a big deal in his review. The truth is, Marth was considered a "top tier" character along with a handful of others in Melee, meaning that he was one of the best characters to use in professional play due to his speed and fighting style. Almost every tournament player learned to use Marth, and I can assure you it wasn't because they were all Fire Emblem 1 fanboys. Leaving him out would have pissed off the old Melee players to no end, because his style of fighting was very much about speed, technique and control, and it proved to be one of the most effective ones in tournament play. If Brawl's only appeal is fanservice, why the hell would people be so nuts about a no-name character?

Long story short: If the requisite for liking Brawl is being a Nintendo fanboy, and I like Brawl, it must mean I'm a Nintendo fanboy, which is both insulting and an unfair representation of the game as a whole.

Wait a minute...I know what's going on here! I'm getting sucked into a he-said, she-said argument! Lol! Bad g31st! No donut for you!

It's okay, I had some last weekend.

There's no need to play the he-says-she-says game; I quoted the important bit above. You're a growed up and you can go watch the Halo 3 review and look for a similar quote in that video. Don't be surprised if you don't find one.

As I said before, "let's get back to the good old weeks when we could watch a review, laugh about it, and discuss it like the reasonably well-adjusted crazy people we are."

I agree. That's the reason I like Yahtzee. At the same time, I'm not a rabid fanboy. I've never tried to proslethize Brawl to anyone, and I've never gotten on anyone's case who's played it and decided they didn't like it. Despite all of this, Yahtzee's review told me that by liking the game (for whatever reason), I was one of those unholy fanboys that people are so keen to hate. Maybe I'm in the minority who doesn't just lay down while someone who I've never even met in real life tells me I'm an ignorant twat for liking a certain video game.

hey, look, someone with a brain ^^ *makes snapshot before it goes away*
anyone ever noticed btw that all the people who dont like brawl, and i do mean like, 70-80% at least ( so okey, not all :\ ) have never actualy PLAYED brawl ?

 

[elffymon]

wow, 17 pages of comments and your 'review' has hardly been up one day, and about 80% is positive.

Congratulations Yahtzee you have fan boys,
and probably fan girls too, or at least the girl friends of the gamers that watch it cause they want to fuck you. maybe its your voice.

Anyway love a good rant, have fun playing gta4.

 

[Hudson_McDoogle]

Fucking brilliant!

To all the fanboys who bitched about the SSBB review, have a cry and get over it.
Seriously.

Balls.

 

[xanrethan]

So has anything really been decided? It'd be great if we could somehow objectively measure the changes caused around a wide audience after viewing the SSBB review, and seeing how many people exactly were A) outraged, B) laughing their asses off, C) Viewing Yahtzee for the first time.

I'd love to see some sort of registered users per day statistic, I think people may just see a bit of a spike 3 weeks ago.

My own takeaway from the whole ordeal: A mediocre party game was trashed and fans tried weakly to rationalize their purchase by either discrediting Yahtzee (though he has not made any claims to his own skill, instead, lets his sharp wit do the talking for him) or trying to assert their opinion on the good aspects of SSBB in some malformed hope this might superimpose itself upon Yahtzee's opinion. This led to much drama and now this, which is only fueling the fanboy fire.

Have i encapsulated the gist of all 1500 posts without reading them? Or am I missing something? :3

 

[MattDark]

This is perfect for proof on how bad fanboys can be.

Ive seen so many people call others Trolls or Flame-Baiters, just because they dont think a game is the best thing since utterly butterly. These people seem to think opinion is reserved for what your favourite character/stage/attack is, and that everyone loves the game, no matter what.

I think Brawl has highlighted this, due to the sheer amount of people who have praised it, so when someone has a genuine opinion and can see a problem or a flaw, the fanboys just pounce on them, trying to banish it to hell like some undead spawn of satan.

But Ive seen this plenty of times, not just from Nintendo fanboys. 360 fanboys (Especially Halo) and PS3 fanboys (Most exclusives) can be just as bad.

 

[CheshireChaz]

Another great rant! lol @ the fanboys
They shouldn't come on here if they're ThaT sensitive. Believe it or not -games might be in for some harsh feedback if they appear on this site. -So dont look so dam surprised!!

 

[Hudson_McDoogle]

I agree with xanrethan on that.

 

[ridik_ulass]

played,
i can't wait for your gta4 review yet i want it now....:-(

ps ,enjoy your censored australian version :-(

 

[xanrethan]

Yahtzee's a cool guy, eh writes reviews and doesn't afraid of anything.