Dude, I don't think anyone wants to explore your ass. Well, maybe your proctologist, but even then, he or she is getting paid to do it.Tumbler360 said:
Zero Punctuation: Mass Effect
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
What I'm wondering right now is why it was decided to use The Clash version of "I Fought the Law" instead of the Bobby Fuller original in the Assassin's Creed Review, but to use the original version of "A Little Less Conversation" by Elvis instead of the JXL remix.
Oh how delightfully goosh!
Haven't played it yet. As a little fella (11-18 years old) I was enthralled by JRPGs. Why I have no clue, because after joining the Army and jamming my mouth full of FPS's I can't stand any RPG whatsoever. KotOR (hahaha, kotor, sounds like a barbarian name) was a complete bore, and if Mass Effect is roughly the same, I think I'm going to join your brand of Nazi-ism and hate it without playing it.
On an unrelated note, haven't played Call of Duty 4 yet either.
Haven't played it yet. As a little fella (11-18 years old) I was enthralled by JRPGs. Why I have no clue, because after joining the Army and jamming my mouth full of FPS's I can't stand any RPG whatsoever. KotOR (hahaha, kotor, sounds like a barbarian name) was a complete bore, and if Mass Effect is roughly the same, I think I'm going to join your brand of Nazi-ism and hate it without playing it.
On an unrelated note, haven't played Call of Duty 4 yet either.
I am surprised that the repetitive Simon-says style gameplay was not mentioned by either Yahtzee or in any of the 100+ comments. Penny Arcade picked up on this rather well, but my main gripe with it was that i honestly cant see how surveying minerals can be compared to hacking computers and thus be simplified to pressing 4 or 5 consecutive buttons.
I may as well add my introduction here. Hi.
I may as well add my introduction here. Hi.
The complaints are clear to me. The dialog ought to be skipable if the player wants to skip it. It's super easy to program. Also, ever read or heard of the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan? They're well known for being incredibly dense and slow moving. It's also understood that many people who otherwise like books in the same genre don't like the Wheel of Time series for being TOO dense and slow. I think Yahtzee is perfectly fair to complain when there's too much dialog. As he put it, characters telling their entire life stories to the player.rebochan said:
As for the feminine men, very few guys actually go "ballistic" over them. (Hint: that's why the games still sell so well) A hell of a lot of guys however, just don't get the point of making the hero look that way. The questions these guys want to ask the designer are "WHY?!? Why did you make the hero look like a girl? What purpose does that serve in the game? What purpose does that serve the hero? How does the personality of the hero correspond to him looking like a girl?"
Feel free to reply for the designers and expound on your answer. Excusing one character (Kuja) doesn't explain the entire trend.
Yosharian, to skip dialogue, press the X button. You can't skip cutscenes though.
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I really enjoyed Mass Effect and, like KOTOR, it really left a mark on my mind. Probably my most memorable entertainment experience this year.
That being said, none of Bioware's games are good GAMES, in my opinion. For me, a game needs to make good use of the controller I am handling. The two joysticks, the two triggers, the buttons. It needs to challenge my reflexes and such. Like a sport. If it has a great story, that's great, too, but first it needs to get the gameplay right. I've never been a big fan of RPGs because of their click-and-watch nature, but at least RPGs like Final Fantasy have a lot of challenge to them. But with Bioware, you could literally beat KOTOR by pressing just two buttons the whole game: target then flurry. I'm not exaggerating. Try it, even on the hardest difficulty. Target. Flurry.
Mass Effect tried to leave the click-and-watch mechanic but I don't think it worked out well. The AI is very bad, and the combat mechanics feel more primitive than what we saw in FPS games 10 years ago.
Also, it smashes very different genres and themes into the game which kinda put me off. The dialogue was great, I really enjoyed it, but I can see how action gamers would get impatient. Look at all the popular action games. They're practically devoid of any dialogue at all. The typical FPS game makes WWF Wrestling TV shows look like Shakespeare in comparison, that's how little dialogue is in an FPS game. The game also constantly asks you to pause the game in mid-combat to switch weapon mods, skills, and other things. Imagine playing Streetfighter and having to pause the game in mid-combat to give your fireball a special boost against green Brazilian mutants. Ruins the flow.
The game's story and setting is all over the place. The Codex explains all the technology and politics of the universe in great detail, as something that could really exist. It takes itself really seriously, like a Star Trek Technical Manual or a Gundam Universal Century explanation of Minovsky particles. It talks about how space warfare is nothing like the warfare we know of today in the 21st century, or anything that's come before. But then we see the combat in the actual game.. and it's stuff that feels more primitive than World War 1 fighting. Shotguns, assault rifles, pistols and sniper rifles. But the worst thing about it is that the AI is so bad that the realism suffers even more. In KOTOR, we had a similar problem. You're supposed to see the enemies as complex characters, but then they act like zombies, waiting to be cut down. Lately I've had a big issue with media that have a "hardcore realism" attitude but then follow it up with Rambo-style combat.
All this makes me think that Bioware should reconsider how they make games, what platforms they make them for, and who they make them for. Mass Effect is mostly a conversation game. An interactive choose your own adventure novel. In many ways, it feels more akin to Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney-type games on the NDS than it does to something that should be on the 360. I can totally see myself playing this kind of game on my PSP and really enjoying it while riding the bus. What about the Mass Effect experience would really be lost by shifting to the PSP? The core of the game would still be there..
All this griping aside, I'm still glad Bioware took a chance by making this game. I'm an action gamer first and foremost, but I desperately want to see more dialogue and story in my action games. Mass Effect didn't strike the right balance for me, but it at least tried to. Most action games seem to be for a demographic I'm not a part of, and most RPG games seem to be for another group I'm not a part of either.
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I really enjoyed Mass Effect and, like KOTOR, it really left a mark on my mind. Probably my most memorable entertainment experience this year.
That being said, none of Bioware's games are good GAMES, in my opinion. For me, a game needs to make good use of the controller I am handling. The two joysticks, the two triggers, the buttons. It needs to challenge my reflexes and such. Like a sport. If it has a great story, that's great, too, but first it needs to get the gameplay right. I've never been a big fan of RPGs because of their click-and-watch nature, but at least RPGs like Final Fantasy have a lot of challenge to them. But with Bioware, you could literally beat KOTOR by pressing just two buttons the whole game: target then flurry. I'm not exaggerating. Try it, even on the hardest difficulty. Target. Flurry.
Mass Effect tried to leave the click-and-watch mechanic but I don't think it worked out well. The AI is very bad, and the combat mechanics feel more primitive than what we saw in FPS games 10 years ago.
Also, it smashes very different genres and themes into the game which kinda put me off. The dialogue was great, I really enjoyed it, but I can see how action gamers would get impatient. Look at all the popular action games. They're practically devoid of any dialogue at all. The typical FPS game makes WWF Wrestling TV shows look like Shakespeare in comparison, that's how little dialogue is in an FPS game. The game also constantly asks you to pause the game in mid-combat to switch weapon mods, skills, and other things. Imagine playing Streetfighter and having to pause the game in mid-combat to give your fireball a special boost against green Brazilian mutants. Ruins the flow.
The game's story and setting is all over the place. The Codex explains all the technology and politics of the universe in great detail, as something that could really exist. It takes itself really seriously, like a Star Trek Technical Manual or a Gundam Universal Century explanation of Minovsky particles. It talks about how space warfare is nothing like the warfare we know of today in the 21st century, or anything that's come before. But then we see the combat in the actual game.. and it's stuff that feels more primitive than World War 1 fighting. Shotguns, assault rifles, pistols and sniper rifles. But the worst thing about it is that the AI is so bad that the realism suffers even more. In KOTOR, we had a similar problem. You're supposed to see the enemies as complex characters, but then they act like zombies, waiting to be cut down. Lately I've had a big issue with media that have a "hardcore realism" attitude but then follow it up with Rambo-style combat.
All this makes me think that Bioware should reconsider how they make games, what platforms they make them for, and who they make them for. Mass Effect is mostly a conversation game. An interactive choose your own adventure novel. In many ways, it feels more akin to Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney-type games on the NDS than it does to something that should be on the 360. I can totally see myself playing this kind of game on my PSP and really enjoying it while riding the bus. What about the Mass Effect experience would really be lost by shifting to the PSP? The core of the game would still be there..
All this griping aside, I'm still glad Bioware took a chance by making this game. I'm an action gamer first and foremost, but I desperately want to see more dialogue and story in my action games. Mass Effect didn't strike the right balance for me, but it at least tried to. Most action games seem to be for a demographic I'm not a part of, and most RPG games seem to be for another group I'm not a part of either.
Oh dear. Poor, innocent Neimo.
Let me explain what's going on. There are only two options.
1. Either they make their characters look like that because that's what white dudes look like to them (tall, floppy haired and silly), or:
2. Those cunning Japanese business men have decided that even if they can't make money out of a decent game, they've got "sexy" men, with exotic (for Japan) styles of dress and hair.
Okay, I said two... but maybe there's a third one.
3. Multiple reports describe Japan as having a "hive-mind" culture, where everyone must have black hair, unless you wish to disgrace your ancestors and such.
Thus, when we (the relatives of blond men from Europe) arrived many years ago, they saw these strange people with their differences. And having been bound to conformity for many a year, when these guys finally got loose, every thing ends up over done.
Then combine that with Americans making comments about "Japanese people lookin' like girls", some people probable hear this, too. These people talk, everyone hears it... Bam! Revenge is girly looking white men, whilst also appeasing sex craving school girls looking for exotic men and nerds looking for RPGs (I am in no way insulting nerds).
Thus, it's revenge, porn and nerd bait, all in one.
I'm probably wrong, but I had fun imagining that all up.
Let me explain what's going on. There are only two options.
1. Either they make their characters look like that because that's what white dudes look like to them (tall, floppy haired and silly), or:
2. Those cunning Japanese business men have decided that even if they can't make money out of a decent game, they've got "sexy" men, with exotic (for Japan) styles of dress and hair.
Okay, I said two... but maybe there's a third one.
3. Multiple reports describe Japan as having a "hive-mind" culture, where everyone must have black hair, unless you wish to disgrace your ancestors and such.
Thus, when we (the relatives of blond men from Europe) arrived many years ago, they saw these strange people with their differences. And having been bound to conformity for many a year, when these guys finally got loose, every thing ends up over done.
Then combine that with Americans making comments about "Japanese people lookin' like girls", some people probable hear this, too. These people talk, everyone hears it... Bam! Revenge is girly looking white men, whilst also appeasing sex craving school girls looking for exotic men and nerds looking for RPGs (I am in no way insulting nerds).
Thus, it's revenge, porn and nerd bait, all in one.
I'm probably wrong, but I had fun imagining that all up.
I don't like Final Fantasy games, but I don't mind the metrosexual males of the game (I live in San Francisco, pretty much every young guy has that look, IMO, or a hip-hop fashion sense). FF's metrosexuals just seem like Legolas from Lord of the Rings to me. Pretty boys. Enrique Iglesias types.
Metrosexuals seem pretty popular these days. I think it's because of the "yuppiefication" of wealthy nations. I can see how metrosexuality would be more accepted in the G8 countries than developing nations, too. If everyone you know is farming or in a factory, tolerance of girly men isn't going to be very high. Here in the US, we still have a lot of people who cling to the notion of being cowboys, taming the wild west and slaying indians with six-shooters (ex: the President). They tend to enjoy Harley motorcycles, Nascar, and hunting beasts in the outdoors or something. I believe the US has a much stronger agricultural industry compared to Japan and Western Europe, so there are actually quite a few Americans who are actually doing "manly" work still.
Metrosexuals seem pretty popular these days. I think it's because of the "yuppiefication" of wealthy nations. I can see how metrosexuality would be more accepted in the G8 countries than developing nations, too. If everyone you know is farming or in a factory, tolerance of girly men isn't going to be very high. Here in the US, we still have a lot of people who cling to the notion of being cowboys, taming the wild west and slaying indians with six-shooters (ex: the President). They tend to enjoy Harley motorcycles, Nascar, and hunting beasts in the outdoors or something. I believe the US has a much stronger agricultural industry compared to Japan and Western Europe, so there are actually quite a few Americans who are actually doing "manly" work still.
I've always found it hilarious when game reviewers refer to "nerds" in the third person as though they aren't part of that group.
Not your best review, but "Mass Erect" had me chuckling as did the whole Ash Williams thing.
Also, looooved the dig at CAD. It's sort of amusing watching a few people flock to defend the worst "popular" webcomic on the interblog. Especially given your criticism, which was straight on-the-money.
Not just webcomics, but everything seems to be too text-heavy.
Also, looooved the dig at CAD. It's sort of amusing watching a few people flock to defend the worst "popular" webcomic on the interblog. Especially given your criticism, which was straight on-the-money.
Not just webcomics, but everything seems to be too text-heavy.
Destructoid's review [http://www.destructoid.com/destructoid-review-mass-effect-56046.phtml] was much the same thing. Too much dialogue, and for a game supposedly strong on story, most of the problems are solved by shooting stuff, rather than talky talky puzzle solvey.
Buckley responds!
http://www.cad-forums.com/showthread.php?t=83020
I met the guy at E3 2005 and at a LAN party in Houston. He seems decent enough. The comic, however, started kinda funny but never matured. It fell apart when Ethan, for the 100000th time in a row, made gamers looks 100% fucked in the brain.
http://www.cad-forums.com/showthread.php?t=83020
I met the guy at E3 2005 and at a LAN party in Houston. He seems decent enough. The comic, however, started kinda funny but never matured. It fell apart when Ethan, for the 100000th time in a row, made gamers looks 100% fucked in the brain.
Funny timing on this, as I actually just bought this game yesterday. I'm someone who does like RPGs, depth, and dialogue, so I personally actually like this game a whole lot... except for one part. And that part is the goddamn fucking Mako APC buggy parts. I was waiting this entire review for you to mention them and was not disappointed. Well, a little, actually - for once you were too LENIENT. "Fat man on a unicycle", while certainly up to your usual standard of awesome comparisons, does not even begin to describe how fully and utterly soul-crushing these experiences are.
That one part on that goddamn planet where you have to drive on the road and there are like fifty goddamn robots waiting to shove rockets up your ass very nearly drove me to throw my controller against the wall, and it's been a very long time since I last did that. Attempting to maneuver the Mako while trying to avoid their rockets and all the while trying to shoot at them while the camera decides that its best location is under your car is more like a fat man trying to ride a unicycle while juggling six bowling pins and attempting to dodge bullets in the Matrix... with his eyes removed from his head and stuck onto his ass.
God, I hated those parts.
Oh, great review, by the way.
That one part on that goddamn planet where you have to drive on the road and there are like fifty goddamn robots waiting to shove rockets up your ass very nearly drove me to throw my controller against the wall, and it's been a very long time since I last did that. Attempting to maneuver the Mako while trying to avoid their rockets and all the while trying to shoot at them while the camera decides that its best location is under your car is more like a fat man trying to ride a unicycle while juggling six bowling pins and attempting to dodge bullets in the Matrix... with his eyes removed from his head and stuck onto his ass.
God, I hated those parts.
Oh, great review, by the way.
Yes and we all played as shopkeepers and cleaners in all those others rpg's because all those quests weren't solved with fighting.J.theYellow said:
Replace guns with swords and nobody would have questioned the action. Besides the fact that there are a lot of quests that can be done without resorting to violence.
Oh and a)an rpg can NEVER have too much dialogue and b) you cannot say that it has too much dialogue and then say that quests aren't solved enough by dialogue.