Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[Jumplion]

(please note that i have not read your previous arguments, so i gathered what i could. Please correct me if i'm wrong)

Wow, that is extremely retarted IMHO. So the MGS series is automatically irrelivant and the plot is poorly written because it takes place on Earth in an alternate 20th and 21st century and has impossible technologies and genetics because it is in an ALTERNATE Earth. But Star Wars is completely relevant and can be believed because it doesn't take place in our galaxy, and even though the physics are completely impossible (faster than light travel, light sabers, ray guns) it is apparantly better story writing than MGS (not saying SW has bad writing, they are both equal)? Personally, i had no idea what the hell was going on in the SW episodes i watched in the order of release.

I guess you missed the part where I implied that Star Wars has nonsensical plots too. Alternate Earths is one thing, the many worlds theory makes anything possible I suppose, but some of the things in Metal Gear would have to take place in Bizarro World. Vamp runs up walls, Fortune deflects bullets without the aid of technology (even the technology was stupid), I could go on all day.

The bad science was just something we got into discussing. In one of my earlier posts I cited the repetitive dialog, game-to-game retcons, and of course bad science as just a few examples of Kojima's terrible writing. There's also the face that nearly everyone has a drawn out death scene with "last words" that could fill seven pages of the script, and that's regardless of whether they stay dead or not. The only exception to the rule were the Cobras in MGS3, I think the Fury was the only one who talked a lot before his death but even that was short compared to some of the deaths in this series.

Surprisingly, I like the Metal Gear series. The gameplay is usually fun, and the plot is usually worth a few laughs.

(just a reminder that we are arguing for the sake of arguing )

Really? Excuses that MGS is poorly written (or something along those lines) because Vamp can run on walls? If Ninjas in the 10th century (or whatever century the games are based in) can run on walls why can't a seemingly immortal person in the FUTURE (for ninjas) with technology run on walls and not be classified as bad writting?

And Fortune was called "Lady Luck" for a reason, seeing as how every grenade thrown at her was a dud and shots always missed. It goes away from the technology side of MGS and goes into a "magical feel" or soemthing like that.

I just don't understand how you can impliy that the MGS series has bad writing. It's much more believeable than a ring that somehow destroys everything in range, or faster than light travel, or magical demons that pop up and a ninja with a huge arsenal of weapons to hack and slash at them.

Hell, any game could be labeled as being poorly written. Eternal Sonata, about a composer dreaming of a world in peril or whatever. WhAt ThE hElL iS tHaT/

If Kojima can't be creative with his story without being accused of writing poorly then MGS should have never been, and i would rue that day.

Just one more thing (not directed to you) for everyone who says that Kojima is a frustrated film maker or that he should make movies instead of games because of all the cutscenes, A)Fuck you and B)Which would you rather have? A Movie with no interactivness whatsoever or a Game that is like a movie, but you can be part of the experience?

My money's on the game.

@Indigo_dingo: Yes, precisely. Well done.

 

[Spacewolf]

well ive never played any other MSG games or heard any plots so before this i just looked on wiki and when i played though i liked it even the overly lengthy cutscenes, sure some could of used cutting back, as they where interesting especially if you think into them. I can see why people would dislike the game if they where used to faster paced games but there is a skip button if you dont like the cutscenes, Kojima also likes to use metaphors which can be confusing

 

[YYZed]

TerraMGP you know your a fanboy when every single post youve ever had was on this thread defending 1 single game, your clearly not going to convert ANYONE please just give up its been 3 DAYS. I'm not trying to take anyones side here but the sides are just TerraMGP against everyone else. This Shit is Bananas (im going to be quoting that for the next week i swear).

 

[Syine]

OMG i never, NEVER thought I'd see the day Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw would not make me laugh.
I wont blame you though Yahtzee, Its my fault, I'm a MGS fanboy, I know I am and Im proud ^_^
I have found that i have agreed with, and enjoyed, your critical reveiws on every single occation (apart from games i never played, still funny though^^) but the line has finaly been crossed; I am now the sad man who thought MGS4 could stand up to your "game destroying vocabulary" but alas, no.

I spent the whole vid waiting for a "But actually I enjoyed MGS4" in a Yahtzee kind of way but it just ended. >_<

anyway, if you ever read this (doubt that you will just becuase there are like, 600 replies and who has the time? xD) then i do think you expected MGS4 to be a fanboy only game and in retrospect, it is.
but i dont think you gave the chance (and the sneaking only realy works on the harder settings, its much better! ^_^) but then as we all know MGS4 is like Marmite.

Nuff said. haha

look forward to the next entry

oh and i know you hate request.....so i wont

 

[YYZed]

OMG i never, NEVER thought I'd see the day Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw would not make me laugh.
I wont blame you though Yahtzee, Its my fault, I'm a MGS fanboy, I know I am and Im proud ^_^
I have found that i have agreed with, and enjoyed, your critical reveiws on every single occation (apart from games i never played, still funny though^^) but the line has finaly been crossed; I am now the sad man who thought MGS4 could stand up to your "game destroying vocabulary" but alas, no.

I spent the whole vid waiting for a "But actually I enjoyed MGS4" in a Yahtzee kind of way but it just ended. >_<

anyway, if you ever read this (doubt that you will just becuase there are like, 600 replies and who has the time? xD) then i do think you expected MGS4 to be a fanboy only game and in retrospect, it is.
but i dont think you gave the chance (and the sneaking only realy works on the harder settings, its much better! ^_^) but then as we all know MGS4 is like Marmite.

Nuff said. haha

look forward to the next entry

oh and i know you hate request.....so i wont

Hes played through all of them im pretty sure he doesnt HATE them he just thinks its got some flaws.

 

[Roblin]

Its been widely known for a long, LONG time before the release that people who weren't interested in the series already weren't welcome. That means that the game is giving us the complex plots brilliant characterization and full and total explanations the fans want. The game couldn't make it clearer if it actually said on the box "If you haven't played the other MGS games, then kindly fuck right off".

I honestly think thats about the best way to put it. You love it or hate it and All the people who say the writing is bad, I'm sorry people but you just hate it, nothing more.

As I've mentioned before, I love the MGS series and can even forgive its wacky plot. But I still think the dialogue and even the story structure could have been better realised. But now that I think of it... I've given up caring.

Good review Yahtzee... But not the funniest.

 

[YYZed]

OMG i never, NEVER thought I'd see the day Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw would not make me laugh.
I wont blame you though Yahtzee, Its my fault, I'm a MGS fanboy, I know I am and Im proud ^_^
I have found that i have agreed with, and enjoyed, your critical reveiws on every single occation (apart from games i never played, still funny though^^) but the line has finaly been crossed; I am now the sad man who thought MGS4 could stand up to your "game destroying vocabulary" but alas, no.

I spent the whole vid waiting for a "But actually I enjoyed MGS4" in a Yahtzee kind of way but it just ended. >_<

anyway, if you ever read this (doubt that you will just becuase there are like, 600 replies and who has the time? xD) then i do think you expected MGS4 to be a fanboy only game and in retrospect, it is.
but i dont think you gave the chance (and the sneaking only realy works on the harder settings, its much better! ^_^) but then as we all know MGS4 is like Marmite.

Nuff said. haha

look forward to the next entry

oh and i know you hate request.....so i wont

Hes played through all of them im pretty sure he doesnt HATE them he just thinks its got some flaws.

If he doesn't know who the La Li Lu Le lo are, I doubt he did, even if he has claimed to play MGS2

eh whatever I have no room to talk the closest thing ive ever played to MGS is SSBB >_>.

 

[shatnershaman]

Just one more thing (not directed to you) for everyone who says that Kojima is a frustrated film maker or that he should make movies instead of games because of all the cutscenes, A)Fuck you and B)Which would you rather have? A Movie with no interactivness whatsoever or a Game that is like a movie, but you can be part of the experience?

My money's on the game.

A movie is $9 to see 20-35 (DVD-Blu-ray) to own A game is $10 to rent $60 to own
Movie graphics > Game graphics
Not saying MGS the movie would be better than the games (Although MGS4 is pretty much a movie(non-interactive)) just there are valid points for one (FF movies are good examples)

 

[JakubK666]

I haven't played the games so I'm not going to debate if it is badly written or not but I know most of the story and the main problem with MGS4 story is that it relies solely on the audience's suspension of disbelief.If you're not willing to put up with Kojima's bullshit,the game will do nothing but further reject you.A next-gen 2008 game shouldn't have an attitude like that towards the storyline.

 

[Jumplion]

Just one more thing (not directed to you) for everyone who says that Kojima is a frustrated film maker or that he should make movies instead of games because of all the cutscenes, A)Fuck you and B)Which would you rather have? A Movie with no interactivness whatsoever or a Game that is like a movie, but you can be part of the experience?

My money's on the game.

A movie is $9 to see 20-35 (DVD-Blu-ray) to own A game is $10 to rent $60 to own
Movie graphics > Game graphics
Not saying MGS the movie would be better than the games (Although MGS4 is pretty much a movie(non-interactive)) just there are valid points for one (FF movies are good examples)

Ah ha, BUT you can play (most) games over and over again and it will still be appealing to you. (Most) Movies get old after the first few runs of it.

PLUS, multiplayer. I don't think watching a movie with friends count as multiplayer for movies.

But really, you'd rather see a movie than get a movie and a game all in one? If that's so, then i feel very sorry for you.

 

[Jumplion]

I can't remember, did they ever say what the origin of "La Li Lu Le Lo"? I don't mean the Patriots, I mean the actual phrase. Was it something that originated with the Philosophers, or was it something the Patriots came up with during Zero's time?

I'm not sure about this, but i think that some of the people couldn't say "Patriots" or "Philosiphors" (nanomachines i think) so they resorted to saying La Li Lu Le Lo. Not sure if that's entierly true or true at all.

 

[TerraMGP]

First time I remember hearing that was with Tommy boy. I'm sure its somewhere else as well but I remember Tommy boy

 

[fundude365]

I find it somewhat amusing that both Gamespot (tm) (also, Jerks) and Yahtzee have both picked up on much the same points of MGS4 but have taken utterly different stances on each of them... For Gamespot the fact that Combat is Challenging but you can succeed regardless makes this part of the game accomplished. Yahtzee, being a bi... somewh... a LOT more discerning as a game reviewer, realises that this is through a combination of bad combat controls and bad AI. Beyond making that point, all I can say is I concur with all of Yahtzee's sentiments and declare this latest intallment a smashing success (90min cutscene everybody, need any more be said?)

 

[shatnershaman]

Ah ha, BUT you can play (most) games over and over again and it will still be appealing to you. (Most) Movies get old after the first few runs of it.

PLUS, multiplayer. I don't think watching a movie with friends count as multiplayer for movies.

But really, you'd rather see a movie than get a movie and a game all in one? If that's so, then i feel very sorry for you.

I'm guessing you don't buy the $30 special editions (documentary,commentaries,deleted scens)
I have watched Holy Grail 10 times and I've only had it for 3 weeks. Yes the game is probably better I just find the gameplay parts of MGS4 shitty. I am the Halo guy remember.

 

[Jumplion]

Ah ha, BUT you can play (most) games over and over again and it will still be appealing to you. (Most) Movies get old after the first few runs of it.

PLUS, multiplayer. I don't think watching a movie with friends count as multiplayer for movies.

But really, you'd rather see a movie than get a movie and a game all in one? If that's so, then i feel very sorry for you.

Actually the thing with movies getting old after the first few times is why I skip cutscenes and codec calls on the second and third runs through every Metal Gear game. Even when I played MGS2 for the first time in at least two years and I promised myself I would listen to everything like I did the first time I played it, I couldn't help but skip the opening scene in the Plant Chapter.

As lengthy as the cutscenes are, I do try to sit back and enjoy them the first time I play. Really frustrating if you have to use the bathroom in the middle of one. Thank god for the pause button in MGS4.

Hey, i never said that i watched the cutscenes the second and third time around. THough i absolutely love the beggining cutscene and the fanale one at Act 3 (FUCKING SWEET)

Ah ha, BUT you can play (most) games over and over again and it will still be appealing to you. (Most) Movies get old after the first few runs of it.

PLUS, multiplayer. I don't think watching a movie with friends count as multiplayer for movies.

But really, you'd rather see a movie than get a movie and a game all in one? If that's so, then i feel very sorry for you.

I'm guessing you don't buy the $30 special editions (documentary,commentaries,deleted scens)
I have watched Holy Grail 10 times and I've only had it for 3 weeks. Yes the game is probably better I just find the gameplay parts of MGS4 shitty. I am the Halo guy remember.

Please notice how i said "most" movies loose repitition. And the same thing goes with the commentaries and deleted scenes, once you watch them once you're going to have a tough time wanting to watch them again unless you want to watch it with friends.

And seriously, c'mon, a movie over a game and a movie? Really? You've got to be kidding me.

 

[Roblin]

I can't remember, did they ever say what the origin of "La Li Lu Le Lo"? I don't mean the Patriots, I mean the actual phrase. Was it something that originated with the Philosophers, or was it something the Patriots came up with during Zero's time?

I'm not sure about this, but i think that some of the people couldn't say "Patriots" or "Philosiphors" (nanomachines i think) so they resorted to saying La Li Lu Le Lo. Not sure if that's entierly true or true at all.

Awkward if your an american football fan.

 

[shatnershaman]

[
Please notice how i said "most" movies loose repetition. And the same thing goes with the commentaries and deleted scenes, once you watch them once you're going to have a tough time wanting to watch them again unless you want to watch it with friends.

And seriously, come on, a movie over a game and a movie? Really? You've got to be kidding me.

I don't buy movies that are in the most. You haven't heard the Simpson/Futurama commentaries (including the movies). If I don't like the game part of the game movie why pay the $30 extra.

 

[imPacT31]

I can't remember, did they ever say what the origin of "La Li Lu Le Lo"? I don't mean the Patriots, I mean the actual phrase. Was it something that originated with the Philosophers, or was it something the Patriots came up with during Zero's time?

I'm not sure about this, but i think that some of the people couldn't say "Patriots" or "Philosiphors" (nanomachines i think) so they resorted to saying La Li Lu Le Lo. Not sure if that's entierly true or true at all.

Awkward if your an american football fan.

People under the direct control of the Patriots, via nanomachines, were unable to refer to the Patriots. Their nanomachines forced them to say La Li Lu Le Lo instead.

No idea where the phrase itself originates though.

 

[karpiel]

Seeing a game like this makes me pine for the times when John Carmack's statement about video game plots had a sound foundation in fact.

 

[fundude365]

Honestly while it was a enjoyable review, i feel it falls into the same trap that SSBB review did.

The problem is when Yahtzee resigns himself to play a game he has no real liking in it shows in the review

Well... yes... I believe that this is largely the point, he takes what he doesn't like about a game and presents it to the world for the steaming pile of bullshit he believes it to be. The trouble is us, the viewing public... I would rather jam rusty needles into my bone-marrow than see the state of Yahtzee's e-mail client prior to this review. It must have been similar to the opening week of WOW (everyone scrabbling for names of main characters in the Warcraft series and not being able to run down a main street without spotting an @rtI-I@s or something coming the other way) only this time reading more alond the lines of: MGS4; Metal Gear Please!; MGS4tw! ad infinitum. surely we should be allowed more leeway in his selection of games (although I myself was praying for him to rip the guts out of this game... MGS has never been a GOOD series)