I'm not, he believes online multiplayer on a console is "beneath" him, or something. All I know is he says he doesn't "give a flying shit about multiplayer" but gave a relatively deep analysis of class balance in Team Fortress 2.SoulsGrave said:I'm surprised that Yahtzee didn't include any details in his review regarding the online play aspects of MGS4 which he should have done to make the review a bit more finalized. I was slightly disappointed because of that.
Interesting dialogue. The fact that you?re having a conversation with yourself during your playtime with MGS4 makes it painfully obvious that MGS is simply not your kind of game. I?d recommend sticking to things like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, or Dynasty warriors if you want to do nothing but fight things for a half hour. You can?t really draw comparisons between God of War and MGS. It?s like trying to compare a drama and a comedy movie.Kshandamionreal said:Gamer: Hey, what'd I miss?
Viewer: It's beautiful. Snake's having this moment with EVA.
Gamer: Ok, for how long?
Viewer: (looks at clock) I guess about 15min. Time sure does fly.
Gamer: O...k. Have you noticed anything else?
Gamer: YOU PUT THE CONTROLLER DOWN AND KICKED BACK! You've spent almost half an hour staring at the screen WITHOUT PAUSING.
Viewer: Whoa. So I did. And?
Gamer: AND you rented a GAME, not a DVD (movie.) As in, you rented a GAME to PLAY, not a movie that occasionally lets you zoom into cleavage or wet granny panties.
Viewer: But it's so pretty and involving!
Gamer: Pretty, yes, involving HELL NO. Two hours have gone by and we're still plugging grunts. In God of War, the Hydra and a mountain of undead would be long dead and those twins would've been done about 5 times over.
Yes, you are fighting during the cold war ? a war. On one hand, you are a spy trying to infiltrate an operation undetected ? if you get out of the God of War midset and into the MGS mindset you would not be tempted by the wide array of weaponry available. Yes, you are discouraged from killing people because unlike in God of War, it is not the point of the game. To get the best scores at the end of the game, you kill as few people as you have to.Kshandamionreal said:Once that mental issue died down, I noticed just like Yahtzee pointed out that the game kinda groans about letting you actually play it like it wants to gush its life story for the rest of the week, so I go back to shooting soldiers, killing The Pain, killing The Fear (without getting the infrared goggles,) resetting the PS2 clock to make The End die of old age and watching karma/Kojima scold me for KILLING DURING A WAR as The Sorrow brings back EVERY guy I slaughtered, intentionally or otherwise (because I forgot/didn't care about choking people out instead of throat-slitting.) The game eventually ends with one or two more cutscenes which now feel more satisfying since the game's over and you can restart with the Patriot gun, which has infinite ammo... yet the game/franchise DISCOURAGES killing EVERYONE even the mutant/supernatural bosses.
you say MGS has ALWAYS been about the story? yet you keep comparing it to God of War? a game not exactly known for it?s story.. so again, comparisons are very weak. And yes, you can skip the cutscenes. I just beat the game a few days ago and I?m planning on going through again? not for the story.. but to get bigger and better guns and to go murder countless PMC?s. I had 400+ kills my first run through, and I still got to enjoy the story. I really can?t see what you?re complaining about in those regards.Kshandamionreal said:Then there's the technicals. Minutes of loading and hour-long cutscenes on the PS3 sounds like a bad joke to anyone who didn't buy the big, black behemoth specifically for MGS4. The defenders say "Well you can skip the cutscenes!" which with any other game (ANY Resident Evil game) would be fine, but MGS has ALWAYS been about the story, hence the infamous "more movie than game" title its made for itself. I love a good story in a game as much as the next guy (ok, MORE than the average guy, but a lot less than a JRPG fangirl,) but when you can eat a full meal, go to the bathroom, come back and the cutscene is STILL going, it's too damn long no matter how great its touted to be. Save for the content and load times, the same thing happened in Kingdom Hearts, people fawned over the blissed-out Final Fantasy/Disney crossover, but when FOUR HOURS goes by before you're kicking Heartless/Nobody ass, it has been WAY too long. Again, Yahtzee clearly pointed out how Kojima wants to use gaming as a new medium for storytelling yet at the same time doesn't really want to let gamers... game. So basically Kojima, the guy who did Kingdom Hearts and probably others are frustrated movie directors and before anyone accuses me of fanboyism, I KNOW Dave Jaffe truly wanted to be a movie director and focused that energy into God of War, but he also knew when to let you kill Ares and not just watch him.
?the factor that sold you was misinterpreted.. you didn?t play as snake(david)? snake wasn?t quite alive.Wargamer said:When I looked at Metal Gear Solid 3, I was in love again. This was a PREQUAL! We get to PLAY AS SNAKE! There is no Raiden! That sold me on its own!
Raiden was hidden in MGS2 in the same way the (DARK KNIGHT SPOILER) Harvey dent played such a huge role in the dark knight although his.. other character was not shown in the previews at all. Kojima obviously didn?t intend for raiden to be so unpopular. He didn?t ?hide? raiden for that purpose.Wargamer said:But then we get Metal Gear Solid 4. At first, I wasn't interested. MGS2 had scarred me, and all the vids I saw only strengthened my conviction that I shouldn't buy this game; it was all "Look how cool Raiden is now!" and "look! Snake's shooting himself in the head!"
That's not how a I want a game promoted. Kojima has this masterful ability to be utterly retarded when showing off a game. His lies with MGS2 and "hiding" Raiden almost ruined the game series for me, and it was not until I actually got to read the synopsis of MGS4's plot and learn what it really involved that I relented and bought it.
What are the spoilers that were handed out to you? Did you honestly think that after such a bad reception than they would center another game around raiden? Again, it is not an issue of ?not being able to give facts,? but an issue of ?not giving people the script before they buy the game.? Who the hell would buy a game like MGS if they knew the whole story beforehand?Wargamer said:If it were not for people handing out spoilers, I'd still be branding Kojima a fucktard. THAT, I feel, is MGS4's greatest failing; the guy doesn't know how to give facts.
Kojima often breaks the fourth wall with his games, and this is probably what you are referencing.Korolev said:The problem I've always had with Metal Gear Solid games is not the dialogue - never had a problem with listening to long conversations.
The only problem I have is how stupid the game can be. Sometimes, the game can be great - the game can be extremely atmospheric and can explore unique and meaningful ideas. But sometimes... the game just looks and sounds stupid.
For some reason this has never struck me as a silly name. maybe it?s just because I?m a silly fanboy and hold such reverence for the man. But then again in the MGS universe, everyone else does as well. Either reverence of hatred I?d suppose?Korolev said:1) The Name Big Boss. I've always hated this name. He's supposed to be the world's greatest mercenary, the greatest soldier.... and his name is BIG BOSS. Every single time the voice-actors say the words "Big Boss", I wonder how it is that they don't die from embarrassment. It's a really, really, stupid name. If it had just been "The Boss" (I know that was the name he used in MSG3 for that woman), it would have been better. Big Boss just sounds sill.
Solidus isn?t really old.. sure he has white-ish hair, but as he demonstrates he could battle with the best of them. Sure, he has help from his suit in terms of extra muscle and snake arms, but all in all someone yelling ?STUPID MACHINES? while jumping on top of a 50 foot robot and raping it?s face is acceptable to me.Korolev said:2) Old eye-patch man in a flying octopus suit (with flames), screaming "STUPID MACHINES!!!". That scene just speaks for itself. It felt embarrassing to WATCH.
Hmm.. yeah I guess.. my only issue was why he got his arm replaced with Liquids.. but I?d also say ocelot possessed by liquid is better than no liquid at all.Korolev said:3) Possessed Arms. I know it explains it away in MSG4, but when I was playing MSG2 and that part came up in the tanker mission..... ugh. I didn't know whether or cringe or laugh.
Arugal? lol. WoW boss.Korolev said:4) SHOW ME YOUR RAGE!!! is stupid, no matter how you try to deliver the line.
Ok here?s a nice fourth wall example. Yes, the game is mostly very good at being atmospheric, but if there?s one thing kojima loves, it?s making jokes completely out of context of the game, or a joke relating to past games. Johnny is more of a cameo I?d say, and the fact that he ended up playing a pretty big role is even more amusing.Korolev said:5) Johnny Sasaki needing to go to the bathroom every 2 seconds, was stupid. I know it's his character, but honestly, he had stomach pains EVERY SINGLE TIME THE CAMERA was on him. So Kojima creates this incredibly atmospheric game, great music, great voice actors, great graphics - you feel as if you are sneaking around the war-torn middle east, listening to the bullets go by your head, the sound of distant explosions.... and suddenly you find Sasaki having constipation in a metal can. Yeah. Way to go. Really improves the atmosphere.
It seems you?re taking this nearly opposite as the previous guy I responded too. It seems like you?re taking this a bit too seriously. It is a game. It is (kind of) a movie. It really can?t be just one. All of the codec calls during the fight with screaming mantis had me on the floor. God knows the first thing I tried was switching the controller settings?Korolev said:The Metal Gear Solid games are 80% fantastic, 20% sheer embarrassment. Kojima's "Wacky" humor destroys the atmosphere on any number of occasions. It would be like putting jokes in a serious war drama - like putting constipation jokes in the middle of "Saving Private Ryan". It just doesn't work.
It's a real shame - the Metal Gear Solid games are great, for the most part. They come very close to being classified as "art". Then Kojima makes toilet jokes and gives a character the name "Big Boss". Ugh.
sorry, this was just a blaring error on my screen. Have you looked at any of the boss fights in any of the MGS games that have come out in the past ten years? Some things that simply cannot be explained: vulvan raven, psycho mantis, fortune (her last hurrah), vamp floating above water and running up walls, the sorrow, the pain controlling bees, the end communicating with the forest, volgin controlling electricity, the boss?s scar slithering off of her body, all of the B&B corps. And probably more. Realiity? Nope. Not really.Urgamanix said:- Here's another example, Snake / Ocelot fighting with exactly the same moves. Yeah I guess you can say it makes the fight feel more epic, but more stupid contrived elements. Thought we were trying to keep on the lines of reality.
I don't play hockey games because I know I won't enjoy it. I'm not going to go get one and start complaining about things that I don't like in it. You want my opinion on fish? I hate fish. Smells like garbage. Too many bones, looks disgusting. It gives me a gag-reflex. Are my points valid? All in all, probably not.Tempdude0 said:Hopping into the fray again.
Just because it "isn't his kind of game" doesn't make his point less valid.
it's a choice. it's not the fact that you are able to, it's the fact that you choose to. plus, how stupid would MGS be if the game was over once you were seen? When you are sneaking through a tight area and a guard sees you, being able to run around like a chicken with your head cut off is a much better idea than restarting the game. I'm even willing to bet that over half of the MGS players don't focus on being stealthy for their first run through the game. It's more of a challenge for later, and getting those great rewards.Tempdude0 said:As far as the killing is concerned, it may not be the point of the game and the score may be contingent on how few you've killed, but the fact you can run around like a chicken with your head cut off kind of kills the "sneaking" aspect of the game. I realize that isn't what you're meant to do, but allowing you to disregard stealth whenever you feel like it disqualifies it as a "stealth game". Hell, you could be stealthy in the GTA series. Does that mean they're "stealth games" as well?
I like that last sentence of yours. Honestly I was trying to be vague with GoW because I have never played it. I have just heard about how great of an action game it is. Not many games can rival the story of MGS though lol. At least in terms of volume.Tempdude0 said:He's complaining that the story is presented in a poor manner and should not have to be skipped for any reason aside from having played through the game multiple times. That aside, he keeps referencing God of War because it manages to integrate story and gameplay well. The story may be relatively simple, true, but in regards to integrating story and gameplay MGS fails horribly. It seems intent on you watching a story unfold, not being part of an unfolding story.
I do think that the whole nanomachine stuff got a little out of hand. Mainly in regards to Vamp. I still don't know how he can float on water and run up walls. But he is a badass.. Kojima definitely likes to make references. I don't know exactly how old he is, but those could have been movies he liked to watch as a kid, and for all the old timers out there playing his games, they'd get a kick out of hearing about those movies as well. Kind of liek the radio stations in GTA:VC, but as you said, less subtle. You people must not have played MGS, because I was so damn nostalgic walking around shadow moses while they played the MGS ending music.. I was tearing up.. it was amazing. and Otacon's call about switching discs was also amazing.Tempdude0 said:Skipping a few, he's not referencing that. He's most likely referencing NANOMACHINES! and the general odd shit that pops up in the game, such as anything people say that's not related to what's going on. An example may be the medic from MGS 3 and when she would rant about movies. He's in the middle of a war zone, now is NOT the time to be discussing Creature from the Black Lagoon.
well I guess this is just a new opinion to me, I've talked to a lot of people about the game and this is the first time someone has thought Solidus was weird and old.. Sorry you can't take him seriously.Tempdude0 said:"Old eye-patch man in a flying octopus suit (with flames), screaming "STUPID MACHINES!!!" I believe this line goes toward general "...What?" feelings. It's just goofy.
oops, kind of addressed this above. Yeah the story is serious, but just maybe try to appreciate the game itself a bit more. Who doesn't love easter eggs?Tempdude0 said:Skipping again to the "80% fantastic, 20% sheer embarrassment" part. The idea isn't that he's tossing in jokes, its that he's tossing in jokes that kill the feel of the game. It's possible to integrate jokes into a serious story, but a little bit of subtlety is required and at times Kojima just throws subtlety out the window.
My point about being hardcore is that I'm admitting the game does not fit well with people who have very limited time for playing. I myself had an off day from work, and was allowed to laze about in my room all day and play through the game (and most of the night before..and late into that night..). So when a long cutscene came up, I wasn't annoyed. And now that I have that first run out of the way, I'm going to play through it again and skip the cutscenes for.. maximum playing time..?Tempdude0 said:To the final point, the idea is that a game need not be constrained to a time limit, but parts of it shouldn't make you want to do something else. Take the scene from Super Paper Mario where you have to run around a wheel for 15 minutes. Something like that may serve a purpose in the game and may even be a joke/reference, but when you're sacrificing the point of a game (you know, playing it) for the sake of story/jokes/references/artistic vision, then it becomes a problem. If you need to be "hardcore" about something to appreciate it, then it has failed.
I'm not going to rag on you for liking the game, but I'm curious as to why people never seem to see the flaws in the things they like.
But if a game is truly great, wouldn't it have a near universal appeal? When Tetris and GTA3 were released, they captured the minds of gamers of all stripes. Whether "it's your thing" or not, one could at least recognize the significance of it.Sandoggg said:I don't play hockey games because I know I won't enjoy it. I'm not going to go get one and start complaining about things that I don't like in it. You want my opinion on fish? I hate fish. Smells like garbage. Too many bones, looks disgusting. It gives me a gag-reflex. Are my points valid? All in all, probably not.Tempdude0 said:Hopping into the fray again.
Just because it "isn't his kind of game" doesn't make his point less valid.
Tempdude0 said:He's complaining that the story is presented in a poor manner and should not have to be skipped for any reason aside from having played through the game multiple times. That aside, he keeps referencing God of War because it manages to integrate story and gameplay well. The story may be relatively simple, true, but in regards to integrating story and gameplay MGS fails horribly. It seems intent on you watching a story unfold, not being part of an unfolding story.
Is there a reason why you have to watch all the cool stuff happen in the cutscenes? I understand that not every game can integrate the story into gameplay (such as Half-Life). However, there is a problem when you are watching the high octane fight scenes in a game rather than playing them. A friend of mine summed it up best when we were talking about the game-to-cutscene ratio: "Come to think of it, the game didn't let me play it all that much."Sandoggg said:I like that last sentence of yours. Honestly I was trying to be vague with GoW because I have never played it. I have just heard about how great of an action game it is. Not many games can rival the story of MGS though lol. At least in terms of volume.
So what would you have done? Make the game an RPG in which you choose Snake's responses? I really can't see much difference between games like MGS and DMC where you watch a couple action scenes and some talking in an FMV, and suddenly you're thrown into a fight again.
I wish everyone who ever posted in a ZP comments thread would read this post before they open their mouths (er, keyboards).Aries_Split said:This thread is the same with any game yahtzee reviews. Yahtzee beats on game, a whole bunch of ignorant people that want to seem cool agree with him. Flame war's and epic fail ensue.yawn,
The problem is that a few of us are actually discussing it in a civil manor while managing to use actual arguments as opposed to "MGS suxz, lol" or "MGS is great, your stupid." Granted, it's going all WALL 'O TEXT, but these last couple pages are starting to see more rational discourse. While it has taken a while to get to this point, I figure that as long as people manage to avoid making idiotic statements there shouldn't be any issues.Sylocat said:I wish everyone who ever posted in a ZP comments thread would read this post before they open their mouths (er, keyboards).Aries_Split said:This thread is the same with any game yahtzee reviews. Yahtzee beats on game, a whole bunch of ignorant people that want to seem cool agree with him. Flame war's and epic fail ensue.yawn,
I like to joke about implementing a rule that says ZP threads should be locked after the first 1000 comments (and possibly a rule that says that if your first post is in a ZP thread, you have to ask permission from the mods to post in the other threads), but now I'm starting to wonder if it might actually be a good idea.