Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes - $40 Demo

[Something Amyss]

I was watching an episode of Let's Drown Out the other day, Yahtzee's let's play series on YouTube with Gabriel, and they mentioned that one of the reasons the Star Wars prequels were so bad is because no one dared to challenge Lucas' decisions by that stage and the only reason the original trilogy came out well was because Lucas wasn't given complete unquestioned control on the project. I feel like Kojima's going much the same route.

I don't contest the Lucas theory, but Kojima's shitty movies-masquerading-as-games have been like that for over a decade now.

You know, what actually happens in these places. Rape is a real threat if you get captured and you're a women.

And that....What? Makes it all better? Seriously don't know where you're going with this argument.

Yes. Because you don't like it, means no one should like it. Congratulations on being the stereotype of the Escapist community.

I do know where you're going with that, though. Into the realm of falsehoods I didn't say. In fact, if the only reason you had to quote me was to rant about the "so nobody should enjoy this" thing I neither said nor implied, then why exactly did you quote me? To turn me into a stereotype that I wasn't until you changed the script? Seriously, I'm puzzled here.

Once again, no one is defending the price. Stop making up extra things, we've got enough to discuss as it is (what with implied rape, torture, etc).

Well, yes. People have been defending the price. I can't imagine you've been following these things so closely and yet can't find people on the internet defending the pricing decision.

But the irony of accusing me of making things up? Errrr....You do remember the part where you attributed to me something I never said nor would ever say, right?

 

[Vicioussama]

Surprised he didn't make jokes about Kojima putting himself in the game lol. Cause that's so fanfiction-esque it's hilarious.

 

[Quellist]

Totally not suprised about any of this, i keep wondering when gamers at large will wake up to the fact that Kojima enjoys fucking over his fans.

$40 for a demo, gangrape scene, one map only.....its getting worse..

And as for the Two bombs thing, Kojima did exactly the same with Emma Emmerich in MGS2....protect her (or get a game over) all the way to her unavoidable death scene....again fucking over the fans.

As ive said before, Screw you Kojima, i wont buy your shit until you start taking fans seriously.

 

[odinzeus]

Anyone remember the time when gangrape used to be funny in a game? Ah dungeon keeper, you're the product of a different time.

Welcome to the age of oversensitivity."Muh sojiny" in gamez,games will make you serial killer and so on.R rated games can't have "R" stuff in them,it's offensive now.Good,I miss 90's PC gaming.
Is the escapist community by any chance fan forum of fox news?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzF173GqTU

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Totally not suprised about any of this, i keep wondering when gamers at large will wake up to the fact that Kojima enjoys fucking over his fans.

$40 for a demo, gangrape scene, one map only.....its getting worse..

And as for the Two bombs thing, Kojima did exactly the same with Emma Emmerich in MGS2....protect her (or get a game over) all the way to her unavoidable death scene....again fucking over the fans.

As ive said before, Screw you Kojima, i wont buy your shit until you start taking fans seriously.

Gangrape scene? $40? Those just aren't true. There's a rape scene, but it isn't gangrape, and the game is only $40 in Australia where game prices are much higher than other places. At least get your facts right.

 

[anthony87]

Totally not suprised about any of this, i keep wondering when gamers at large will wake up to the fact that Kojima enjoys fucking over his fans.

$40 for a demo, gangrape scene, one map only.....its getting worse..

And as for the Two bombs thing, Kojima did exactly the same with Emma Emmerich in MGS2....protect her (or get a game over) all the way to her unavoidable death scene....again fucking over the fans.

As ive said before, Screw you Kojima, i wont buy your shit until you start taking fans seriously.

Gangrape scene? $40? Those just aren't true. There's a rape scene, but it isn't gangrape

Don't forget that it's more or less hidden and not "shoved in your face" as someone said in a recent thread complaining about it.

But hey, there's no time to consider things like context or correct information when there so much moral posturing to be done y'know?

 

[Mahoshonen]

I don't know what people are getting so upset over.

I've listened to the supposed rape tapes on youtube and all I hear is hack writing and piss poor voice acting.

Frankly I'm disappointed.

I think the 'hack writing' is part of the reason why people are upset. I mean imagine if Ed Wood had made Schindler's List or something.

 

[DaViller]

This whole bomb-vagina stuff actually made me more interrested in the final product, kind of curious how much more fucked up the whole thing can get.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

So...if a video game has a rape (not even visual) it's not okay, and if a film has a rape scene it's okay? These things fucking happen in real life. We as gamers can't live in a fucking world of sunshine and unicorns that shit rainbows. I wish more video games would do stuff like this. But only if it works in the context of the story.

 

[ThatDarnCoyote]

The Metal Gear games have always had the fucked up stuff right along side the fun and the ninjas and robots and magic, the only reason people are getting their knickers so twisted now is because it's the "in" thing at the moment.

That last bit about knickers isn't directed towards you specifically, just wanted to avoid double posting. ^_^

That's sort of the problem, though. When you make a game series as bombastic and goofy and over-the-top as Metal Gear (to the point that its fans often defend it as intentional satire), it's awkward to then shoe-horn in serious topics. You've got your ninjas and cyborgs and possessed arms and fourth-wall breaking and weird dialogue filled with philosophical buzzwords, and then you're trying to make serious points about child soldiers, PMCs, and the horrors of war.

The abrupt tonal shifts between jokiness and seriousness are whiplash-inducing. And when a developer does that, they run the risk of either looking like they're treating the serious topics as a joke (in which case they look appalling), or looking like they mean the goofy stuff seriously (in which case they look insane). Tone can make or break a story.

People in this thread are invoking comparisons with [em]Spec Ops: The Line[/em]. Remember, [em]Spec Ops: The Line[/em] didn't end with you ascending the tower to have a 20-minute dialogue with Col. Konrad about the Singularity, at the end of which he throws off his cloak to reveal his gleaming cyborg body, and then you have a sword fight while he yells at you about genetic theory and nuclear deterrence.

Unless there's some DLC I missed.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

So...if a video game has a rape (not even visual) it's not okay, and if a film has a rape scene it's okay? These things fucking happen in real life. We as gamers can't live in a fucking world of sunshine and unicorns that shit rainbows. I wish more video games would do stuff like this. But only if it works in the context of the story.

Games aren't real life,some people play them just to avoid things that happen in real life.

I said only if it works in the context of the sorry and world the developers created.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

So...if a video game has a rape (not even visual) it's not okay, and if a film has a rape scene it's okay? These things fucking happen in real life. We as gamers can't live in a fucking world of sunshine and unicorns that shit rainbows. I wish more video games would do stuff like this. But only if it works in the context of the story.

Games aren't real life,some people play them just to avoid things that happen in real life.

I said only if it works in the context of the sorry and world the developers created.

And that hardly happens most of the time, rape scenes in games come off as just trying to be edgy or for that extra "shock factor".The only types of stories I've seen rape being handled correctly are those where people are already fucked up to begin with.

Storytelling in video games have a long way to go before they can handle things like rape and child abuse.Right now it's only used for the sake of it.

I think we're at a point to where stories in games can use those subjects. However, I don't believe that the majority of gamers are ready for it.

 

[Luminous_Umbra]

Can someone please explain something to me? Not saying anyone on here necessarily does it, but why is it some people have a problem with villains in video games doing evil and sometimes horrifying things? I mean, why is it so shocking that a villain did something evil? Have we just been spoiled with too many "doing evil with good intentions" type of villains?

I ask because I've seen it happening in response to the questionable sequences mentioned in this video and thread.

 

[Grach]

Can someone please explain something to me? Not saying anyone on here necessarily does it, but why is it some people have a problem with villains in video games doing evil and sometimes horrifying things? I mean, why is it so shocking that a villain did something evil? Have we just been spoiled with too many "doing evil with good intentions" type of villains?

I ask because I've seen it happening in response to the questionable sequences mentioned in this video and thread.

Probably has something to do with all that typical Hideo Kojima thing of having a schizophrenic tone for his games.

 

[The Dead Singer]

So...if a video game has a rape (not even visual) it's not okay, and if a film has a rape scene it's okay? These things fucking happen in real life. We as gamers can't live in a fucking world of sunshine and unicorns that shit rainbows. I wish more video games would do stuff like this. But only if it works in the context of the story.

Games aren't real life,some people play them just to avoid things that happen in real life.

I said only if it works in the context of the sorry and world the developers created.

And that hardly happens most of the time, rape scenes in games come off as just trying to be edgy or for that extra "shock factor".The only types of stories I've seen rape being handled correctly are those where people are already fucked up to begin with.

Storytelling in video games have a long way to go before they can handle things like rape and child abuse.Right now it's only used for the sake of it.

I think we're at a point to where stories in games can use those subjects. However, I don't believe that the majority of gamers are ready for it.

The industry as a whole aren't ready for it.They still think sex scenes can't be used for anything but fanservice,same thing with nudity.It's not just the gaming community that can't handle mature subjects, it's also the game developers and publishers as well.

I have a really severe problem with this thinking.

The thing is by these accounts, WHEN exactly is the industry going to be ready for it? You're never going to know because everytime someone introduces it you're just going to continue saying the industry isn't ready for it no matter how much time passes.

This thread makes it more or less clear that the industry needs to be forced into it for them to start understanding the gravity of the themes video games are scared of tackling. It's only until that happens that games will have a chance of being taken seriously as storytelling methods and art forms, and only then will they be hypothetically "Ready", though it would of course not matter by that point.

 

[Lieju]

Can someone please explain something to me? Not saying anyone on here necessarily does it, but why is it some people have a problem with villains in video games doing evil and sometimes horrifying things? I mean, why is it so shocking that a villain did something evil? Have we just been spoiled with too many "doing evil with good intentions" type of villains?

I ask because I've seen it happening in response to the questionable sequences mentioned in this video and thread.

Well, should it be about the villain being evil? Especially something like rape, which is too often depicted as something where the actual victim and how it affects them is an afterthought?

And anyway, people aren't generally evil. A super-evil villain can work just fine, but being cartoonish like that doesn't then really fit well with trying to be serious and having a point and putting things like rape and torture in it.

The problem many people have is that they feel it's lazy writing.

Hey this guy is evil, thus torture and rape.

 

[LenticularHomicide]

I'm actually surprised that Yahtzee thinks that "whoops, you missed the bomb in the girl's hoo-hoo, and she dies" is meant to be a surprise in a Metal Gear Solid game. Isn't the death of supposedly mission-critical hostages a mainstay of the series?

Here's a short list of the hostages or persons of interest you meet in the first few MG(S) games (that I have played):

Metal Gear 2: Kio Marv (dies, kicking off the trend)
MGS: Kenneth Baker (dies), Donald Anderson (dies), Hal Emmerich (he comes back, but in the original endings of MGS he just fucks off somewhere), Meryl Silverburgh (dies in one of the endings)
Metal Gear Ghost Babel (aka Metal Gear Solid, the Game Boy Color version): Jimmy Harks (dies), Chris Jenner (oddly, survives, possibly due to being a Meryl-surrogate)
MGS2: Richard Ames (dies), Emma Emmerich (dies)
MGS3: Granin (dies), Sokolov (survives, but the game initially fakes you out by implying that he was beaten to death)

After all that, I was under the impression that the main theme of MGS was "History repeats itself", "People never learn from history", and "One of the lessons not learnt is: Never send FOXHOUND in to rescue hostages; it's a kiss of death".

 

[xqxm]

You mean they've thrown out mister "Got-Voice-Acting-Lessons-From-Skeletor"? I remember trying to play MGS3 on the PS2, hearing this tripe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWTn9eQf2sQ and immediately being so weirded out that I couldn't continue playing it. The fact that I was tripping over cutscenes every two seconds helped, too.

 

[Quellist]

Totally not suprised about any of this, i keep wondering when gamers at large will wake up to the fact that Kojima enjoys fucking over his fans.

$40 for a demo, gangrape scene, one map only.....its getting worse..

And as for the Two bombs thing, Kojima did exactly the same with Emma Emmerich in MGS2....protect her (or get a game over) all the way to her unavoidable death scene....again fucking over the fans.

As ive said before, Screw you Kojima, i wont buy your shit until you start taking fans seriously.

Gangrape scene? $40? Those just aren't true. There's a rape scene, but it isn't gangrape

Don't forget that it's more or less hidden and not "shoved in your face" as someone said in a recent thread complaining about it.

But hey, there's no time to consider things like context or correct information when there so much moral posturing to be done y'know?

Why? Kojima never let facts get in his way

Seriously though, you're nitpicking. Whatever the price its more akin to a demo than a full game and certainly not worth $40 wether they be US, Aussie or whatever and really, a rape scene as an Easter egg...are you going to defend that?

Also I assume you have no issue with my comparison of the two bombs nonsense to the Emma Emmerich death nonsense?

 

[LenticularHomicide]

You mean they've thrown out mister "Got-Voice-Acting-Lessons-From-Skeletor"? I remember trying to play MGS3 on the PS2, hearing this tripe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWTn9eQf2sQ and immediately being so weirded out that I couldn't continue playing it. The fact that I was tripping over cutscenes every two seconds helped, too.

Huh, that sounds...worse than I remembered it (though video games, as a rule, aren't known for their stellar voice acting, and that particular conversation is basically a recitation of a gun magazine article). I don't get the 'Skeletor' bit of your comments, though; his voice is action-tough-guy-gravelly, not cartoon-villainish-nasal.