Zero Punctuation: Overwatch vs Battleborn

[SNCommand]

Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

 

[Worgen]

Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

 

[Piecewise]

I hate everything about overwatch.

I hate online multiplayer only games because 3 months from now the servers will be dead and the game will be worthless. It's already dropped by 50% since launch.

I hate the fact that blizzard for some reason pandered to a whining SJW type about one "Shows her ass" pose when the game was, and still is, filled to burst with skin tight body suits and cleavage right down to the fucking belly button. It is a blatantly manufactured controversy that I'm convinced exists for no reason other than positive PR. Change one minor, meaningless detail and suddenly all the tumblrites are calling you progressive jesus.

I hate the aggressive marketing, the nothing characters, the borderline fellatory praise it receives despite doing nothing special, and the fact that they want you to pay 60 bucks for a game with a short lifespan and limited play value.

The only good thing to come out of this entire stupid endeavor is the crazy amount of butthurt I'm seeing from people crying about SFM porn of their waifus.

 

[Piecewise]

Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Actually no, the entire original complaint was nothing but "This pose will make my daughter uncomfortable and sexy ladies are unacceptable". Let me quote

"This pose says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game...

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the [Overwatch] cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create strong female characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a [Tracer] pose like this undermines so much of the good you've already done."



And the response that blizzard gave was

"We want *everyone* to feel strong and heroic in our community. The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented."


It was literally one SJW screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and then blizzard immediately folding because they didn't want someone to feel "Uncomfortable".


And yet half the roster is sexy ladies in skin tight clothing. This entire fucking "controversy" is so blatantly manufactured for positive PR that it's laughable. Blizzard saw the massive controversy that thread was stirring and very cleverly stepped in, changed one minor detail and garnered massive attention for it. It was brilliant marketing on their part.

 

[FPLOON]

Do I stick it up my arse before or after I destroy the 4 energy crystals?

Other than that, does this mean that "focus groups" win again over the "artistic expression"? Then again, maybe this could be chalked it up to yet another "should have been released first" kind of situation... It's the format wars in video game form!

 

[step1999]

Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Just adding this link because he does a really good job explaining it. I know the vid's super long, but half of it is necessary-ish background stuff about animation and pose design. I will admit that Blizzard's orginal response felt like it was deliberately trying to get good guy points, but I honestly believe they were gonna change it regardless.


(also how do you embed videos?)

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

 

[Igor-Rowan]

Ben Yahtzee vs Battleborn vs Overwatch, this is going to be a fun discussion, and by fun I mean I already got the popcorn.

Speaking of hero shooters, what happened to Paladins, that colorful shooter that was meant to release last year (at least I think it was last year)? And where did all of the hype of Paragon went?

 

[C14N]

It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

It's not sexist, it's just sexually suggestive.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

It's not sexist, it's just sexually suggestive.

Right you are, but the outcry was over sexism, not the perception of what Tracer's "character" would and wouldn't do.

 

[Worgen]

Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Actually no, the entire original complaint was nothing but "This pose will make my daughter uncomfortable and sexy ladies are unacceptable". Let me quote

"This pose says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game...

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the [Overwatch] cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create strong female characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a [Tracer] pose like this undermines so much of the good you've already done."



And the response that blizzard gave was

"We want *everyone* to feel strong and heroic in our community. The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented."


It was literally one SJW screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and then blizzard immediately folding because they didn't want someone to feel "Uncomfortable".


And yet half the roster is sexy ladies in skin tight clothing. This entire fucking "controversy" is so blatantly manufactured for positive PR that it's laughable. Blizzard saw the massive controversy that thread was stirring and very cleverly stepped in, changed one minor detail and garnered massive attention for it. It was brilliant marketing on their part.

I'm calling bullshit. If this was about that then it would have been more about widowmaker or at least included widowmaker or even mae(?). I think you are full of it.

 

[Worgen]

Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Just adding this link because he does a really good job explaining it. I know the vid's super long, but half of it is necessary-ish background stuff about animation and pose design. I will admit that Blizzard's orginal response felt like it was deliberately trying to get good guy points, but I honestly believe they were gonna change it regardless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmLkVtqjf1A

(also how do you embed videos?)

To embed a vid you type youtube=ZmLkVtqjf1A in brackets []
See the random letters and numbers at the end of the youtube link? You put that after youtube=

 

[Worgen]

It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

Now your just splitting hairs.

 

[Mullahgrrl]

Ok.

This is the point at wich I am sick of yahzee.

I have followed him from the pre-escapist start and had ups and downs et c. but for whatever reason this is the point I just feel bloated of him.

 

[KissingSunlight]

I didn't care about either game before I watched this video. I think online shooters are too repetitive. Yahtzee actually sold me on Battleborn. From complaining about it sounding like Buffy the Vampire Slayer (The Best TV Show Ever Made!) to noting that it has a single player campaign.

With all the hype, you would expect Overwatch to be all things to everybody. For it just being a MOBA shooter, that was really disappointing. I can see it having the same fate as Titanfall and Destiny.

 

[Transdude1996]

Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Actually no, the entire original complaint was nothing but "This pose will make my daughter uncomfortable and sexy ladies are unacceptable". Let me quote

"This pose says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game...

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the [Overwatch] cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create strong female characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a [Tracer] pose like this undermines so much of the good you've already done."



And the response that blizzard gave was

"We want *everyone* to feel strong and heroic in our community. The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented."


It was literally one SJW screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and then blizzard immediately folding because they didn't want someone to feel "Uncomfortable".


And yet half the roster is sexy ladies in skin tight clothing. This entire fucking "controversy" is so blatantly manufactured for positive PR that it's laughable. Blizzard saw the massive controversy that thread was stirring and very cleverly stepped in, changed one minor detail and garnered massive attention for it. It was brilliant marketing on their part.

I'm calling bullshit. If this was about that then it would have been more about widowmaker or at least included widowmaker or even mae(?). I think you are full of it.

No, that's literally what all the entire stir was about, Tracer showing her bum and how it made her (And only her) a "sex symbol" and made the game "unsafe for the children". The entire thing was so ridiculous that people were scratching their heads over it trying to figure out if this guy was genuine. Here's a couple articles about the whole debacle (One from Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2016/03/29/overwatch-stumbles-into-controversy-by-cutting-sexualized-tracer-victory-pose/#ce14d171c5cb], another from Lewd Gamer [https://www.lewdgamer.com/2016/03/28/blizzard-bows-to-kids-plans-to-remove-tracer-pose/], the latter link is NSFW).

 

[Thanatos2k]

Still don't get the appeal. Said the same thing about TF2, Evolve and that robot game. They seem fun for like the first match, then get repetitive, then in 6 months everything is a ghost town and you spent $70+ on a game no one plays anymore because everyone got burnt out.

I don't understand this complaint. Every single multiplayer game in the history of gaming has been repetitive. The point is that you're playing with or against human beings who are more unpredictable than an AI.

 

[Hades]

Can't really see the drought with Fire emblem Fates being released in the Australia now as well. Only after that one can talk about a dry season.

 

[K12]

"It's got something for everyone" is apparently a criticism now.

 

[Piecewise]

I'm calling bullshit. If this was about that then it would have been more about widowmaker or at least included widowmaker or even mae(?). I think you are full of it.

How can I be full of it? I'm quoting directly from the posts in question. Here, since the entire thread got nuked out of existence, here's a screen cap of the post
https://i.imgur.com/8T07K2X.png

His entire argument was that her looking over her shoulder was completely out of character and turned her into nothing but a sex symbol. How exactly thats the fault of the pose and not the fact that she's wearing a spandex bodysock is beyond me. But then he goes on to talk about the "Great work" they're doing with "strong female characters" and how he wants his daughter to "Grow up" with the characters.

He says its about it being "out of character" but the subtext here is pretty plain.


And I'm not saying this is a conspiracy or anything. I'm saying that Blizzard saw this and decided to pander to him in order to garner massive pr and positive opinions from soapbox loving game journos.