Zero Punctuation: Papers, Please and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

[wAriot]

I was going to make a wise-ass comment about how it probably wouldn't to the blind, then I thought about it and yeah a straight blind man probably wouldn't to suck dick. Maybe they don't care about ugly women but they can certainly tell the difference between genitalia from touch.

Oh, blind people can certainly find others physically attractive or not. In fact, some of the few I know are even more scrupulous than your average person, I really don't know why. In any case, the touch is a great sense to know how someone's appearance is. Or so I'm told.

I believe Yatzhee was a bigoted racist against whites a few months or so back.

inb4 you can't be racist against whites

 

[Warachia]

I can't understand the stance of your post, so I'll address what I can, it was a joke, it had all of the qualities of a joke, it wasn't said just randomly, and I don't understand your stance on the comment section (I'm guessing you don't like that people are defending him).

If you don't understand my stance either ask me to clarify or ignore

My stance is this that it wan't a joke and if it was the implication wouldn't be tyrannies fucking is gay. it would be the opposite

as for the board

"gay" is a label
"gender" is a label

labels are by definitions simplifications
people here are arguing that "calling people gay because they suck of pre-op Transexuals is a simplification"
Is possibly the stupidest thing in the know universe

also if you are fucking a pre op tyranny you may not be gay but you are somewhere in the LGBT spectrum

If you are a man giving another man a blowjob then society counts you as gay, regardless of how you mentally view yourself (which is how society sees it). That's all there is to it, that's all there is to this forum, and that's all there is to the joke, is there anything wrong with being a transsexual? No, is there anything wrong with being gay? No.

You say that these are labels as if that's a bad thing, it's not, society needs labels to function, you are going to be labelled whether you like it or not, now whether or not you are going to change that label (like getting a sex change) is a different matter entirely, so is how you view that label, but the truth, is that you are never going to remove or lose that label.

 

[Demandred20]

Well as they say "any fool can go through life making everyone happy, its when you make enemies you know you are doing something right".

Excellent show Yahtzee, had me laughing straight through the last bit.

 

[Muspelheim]

I believe Yatzhee was a bigoted racist against whites a few months or so back.

inb4 you can't be racist against whites

ZP comment fields does tend to become a sort of gladiator arena battle between Hurt Progressives & Equally Hurt Reactionaries, don't they?

One ought to open a little popcorn and snack tent.

 

[Warachia]

What real life issue? They were addressing the people who had a problem with this comic. Yes they were simplifying and/or exaggerating their claims, and I can understand people not liking that, but them claiming the comic would cause bad thing is a claim with absolutely no meat to it.

The real life issue is actual rape, the quote being "If you are a rapist then go forth and rape no more!" I can see they certainly weren't being very serious with that, which is why I had a problem with it, did I have enough of a problem that I needed to make an account and post about it? No, but the response served only to further alienate and enrage the people who didn't like the comic to begin with.

they even started making merchandise even just to keep offending the people who didn't like it to begin with.

Yeah it didn't help but at that point it was way past the point of ending this without being hostile. I totally understand why they did it, but it wasn't going to help anything.

They could have dropped the issue and moved on, the reason I didn't like that was not only were they were deliberately being assholes at that point, they were also beating a dead horse.

 

[Warachia]

They could have dropped the issue and moved on, the reason I didn't like that was not only were they were deliberately being assholes at that point, they were also beating a dead horse.

Are we talking about the second comic or the merchandise now?

They could have dropped it at any time, they could have chosen not to make the response, if they did people would have moved on and eventually forgotten about it, they could have chosen not to make the merchandise, people would have seen the response as a bad way to reply, and moved on, when they started merchandising is when they were beating a dead horse, bringing an issue back again and again and again will never make it better.

 

[gjkbgt]

You say that these are labels as if that's a bad thing, it's not, society needs labels to function, you are going to be labelled whether you like it or not, now whether or not you are going to change that label (like getting a sex change) is a different matter entirely, so is how you view that label, but the truth, is that you are never going to remove or lose that label.

LABELS
A WORD USED TO GROUP INDIVIDUALS BASED ON SHARED CHARACTERISTICS
they save time.

Think they have any intrusive mean is stupid as such the statement "you are gay" is always objectively less true then the statement you suck off men
as it depends what shared characteristics you use to define "gay"
say i define gay as:
-sexually attracted to people of the same gender only

in that case

If you are a man giving another man a blowjob then society counts you as gay

is wrong as you don't have to be attacted to men to suck them off (but i'm sure it helps)

The reason i say this is utterly stupid is that cause of the varying definitions of "gay" ( attraction, love, sex)
and the different definitions of "label" something you give yourself something others give you.
and the added complication of the definition of "gay" being dependent on the definition of "gender"
Without clear, universally agreed on definitions of all of those thing we can not even talk this let alone find any resolution

 

[Evonisia]

Has the image for this episode not appeared for anyone else? I can see the images for all of the others on Page 1.

 

[JimB]

Tranny is a slur. You know that, right?

In fairness, I didn't know that until fairly recently; some time this year, I think. Until then, I thought it referred to transgender and transsexual people collectively.

I will never commit suicide on another person.

I'd hope not. It'd be exceptionally rude to climb onto my shoulders and then put a gun in your mouth, or whatever. I'm glad you have at least that much respect for my clothing, not making me wash your blood out of my shirt.

In that case we'd need new names describing these sexualities, because transsexual is a little too vague given all it can cover.

Not to be a jerk, but because precision of terminology is important here, the word you want is "sexes" or "genders," not "sexualities." "Sexuality" is the expression of a person's sex life.

That said, I really question the amount of good done by coming up with new words to point out how different this or that person is from the rest of us, but then, I'm straight and cis, so maybe I can't identify with people who need better vocabularies to describe themselves to themselves.

His own feelings and wishes have nothing to do with it, it's pure and simple biology.

I assume you can cite studies about gender dysmorphia and the neurochemistry of people who identify as female to back up this assertion of yours.

As a middle-class, white, cis man, allow me to tell you that what hurts your social acceptance in my eyes isn't the jokes about trannies, but rather your whining regarding them. Instead of just laughing a joke, replying with a joke of your own regarding us cis scum, you whine and act like spoiled brats.

So you'll accept them the second they stop acting like themselves and start acting the way you tell them to?

I am not familiar with that definition of "acceptance." In fact, kind of sounds antonymous to me.

If you are male and like sucking dicks, then you are gay.

Bisexuality is a real thing, so this statement and all the following statements predicated on the faulty foundation are factually inaccurate.

If Ben saw these messages, it would probably make him physically ill to know how hard is "fanbase" can flip-flop from one offensive joke to another.

Oh, I think he adequately expressed his opinion of forumites in Jam. I'd be surprised if anything he might read here is new to his experience.

 

[Neeckin]

What the hell is going on in this comment section?

 

[Kai Kuhl]

Wow, Yahtzee makes one trannie-joke and now everybody talks about gender. Once again, I am amazed by that community.
About Papers Please, I am really in love with that setting. I like bleak dystopia settings, and that one showed really good how easy it is to become part of the system(And how hard it is to avoid that). I hope the developer will further deal with that topic.

 

[Warachia]

You say that these are labels as if that's a bad thing, it's not, society needs labels to function, you are going to be labelled whether you like it or not, now whether or not you are going to change that label (like getting a sex change) is a different matter entirely, so is how you view that label, but the truth, is that you are never going to remove or lose that label.

LABELS
A WORD USED TO GROUP INDIVIDUALS BASED ON SHARED CHARACTERISTICS
they save time.

Think they have any intrusive mean is stupid as such the statement "you are gay" is always objectively less true then the statement you suck off men
as it depends what shared characteristics you use to define "gay"
say i define gay as:
-sexually attracted to people of the same gender only

That's right, that's what labels are, and society needs them, not just to save time, but also to understand what they're working with.

If you weren't sexually attracted to them then why would you perform sexual acts with them without expecting anything in return and these could potentially ruin your reputation?

in that case

If you are a man giving another man a blowjob then society counts you as gay

is wrong as you don't have to be attacted to men to suck them off (but i'm sure it helps)

In his example the person in question was certainly attracted to the person he was sucking off, unless you can prove he wasn't.

The reason i say this is utterly stupid is that cause of the varying definitions of "gay" ( attraction, love, sex)
and the different definitions of "label" something you give yourself something others give you.
and the added complication of the definition of "gay" being dependent on the definition of "gender"
Without clear, universally agreed on definitions of all of those thing we can not even talk this let alone find any resolution

I agree, we need to work with what we're given, which is what I'm doing.

 

[mikemart]

This thread is possibly funnier than the video. Most people wouldn't even think twice about it but of course, its only offensive because it offends them. Forget everyone else he has offended, its only an issue once its personal. I pray Yahtzee makes a reply to this, it'll only be funnier

 

[Warachia]

In that case we'd need new names describing these sexualities, because transsexual is a little too vague given all it can cover.

Not to be a jerk, but because precision of terminology is important here, the word you want is "sexes" or "genders," not "sexualities." "Sexuality" is the expression of a person's sex life.

That said, I really question the amount of good done by coming up with new words to point out how different this or that person is from the rest of us, but then, I'm straight and cis, so maybe I can't identify with people who need better vocabularies to describe themselves to themselves.

No, I meant sexualities, because I was talking about sex lives/attractions, for example, there isn't a specific word for a male transsexual who likes women, it would help because unless the person explains to you what they are and what they are attracted to you can't know their sexuality, not that it really matters, but it was the focus of the discussion you were quoting.

 

[JimB]

I was talking about sex lives/attractions.

Ah, my mistake.

For example, there isn't a specific word for a male transsexual who likes women.

Sure there is. Depending on what you mean by "male transsexual," the word would be "straight" or "gay;" or if the transsexual person doesn't exclusively like women, then you'd go with "bisexual" or some variant thereof.

 

[gjkbgt]

something

No we don't NEED to debate this.
we can, not. And we shouldn't be debating something that is we have no need nor ability to talk about

as for sex acts without attraction
Money, curiosity, maybe part of a threesome.
Most likely being you are a homeless desperate junky and someone offers you money to suck there dick.

as i said man is also a label.
if we're talking about the same guy. it's not the "gay" label he disputes, it's the "man" label
cause there partner is not a "man" he's not "gay" he's not attracted to "men"
I can though stuff like this at you all indefinitely so don't try to agree with me on this.

I the interest of that i'm going to stop debating. let me know if i convinced you to stop too.

 

[Filiecs]

This was a good episode, I really want to get Papers Please.

On the joke, it's a joke. Jokes don't have to be technically correct to still be funny. It only becomes an issue if people take it seriously after the fact and THEN go on to actively discriminate based on their beliefs.
You just aren't going to convince some people that sucking a dick may not be necessarily gay, and that is perfectly okay. Who gives a shit about what they THINK?

I agree that there are many reasons for a guy to suck a duck other than them being gay, but just as sucking a dick doesn't necessarily make a guy gay, telling a joke that isn't completely "correct" doesn't necessarily mean that the joke teller is ignorant or bigoted.

The problem isn't the joke, it's the ignorant judgements people throw at one another after the joke has been told.

The same issue applies to the gender identity thing, too. Just because the person with the dick identifies as female doesn't necessarily mean that the dick-sucker ISN'T gay.

 

[Kai Kuhl]

So, whats the problem with Yahtzees joke about trannies? I mean, if you suck a dick, you are obvously aroused by that meant part of the body. The act of sucking a dick is obvously gay ( The act, not necessarily the person!). The sucking person likes that act (I hope!), so he likes an act that is gay, thus making him non-straight.
You can now differ between sexual arousal and romantic attraction, but to seek sex with a person who is either your sex or not clearly the opposite one, makes you not straight. (Now you can choose between a myriad of labels, yay!)

 

[Kururu999]

What the hell is going on in this comment section?

A typical day in an Escapist thread longer than one page.

 

[Busard]

This was a good episode, I really want to get Papers Please.

On the joke, it's a joke. Jokes don't have to be technically correct to still be funny. It only becomes an issue if people take it seriously after the fact and THEN go on to actively discriminate based on their beliefs.
You just aren't going to convince some people that sucking a dick may not be necessarily gay, and that is perfectly okay. Who gives a shit about what they THINK?

I agree that there are many reasons for a guy to suck a duck other than them being gay, but just as sucking a dick doesn't necessarily make a guy gay, telling a joke that isn't completely "correct" doesn't necessarily mean that the joke teller is ignorant or bigoted.

The problem isn't the joke, it's the ignorant judgements people throw at one another after the joke has been told.

The same issue applies to the gender identity thing, too. Just because the person with the dick identifies as female doesn't necessarily mean that the dick-sucker ISN'T gay.

I wanna quote the comedian Reginald D Hunter on being offended at comedians making jokes

"How can you not think that the ************ on th stage who's job's to make jokes...MIGHT BE JOKING ?"