Zero Punctuation: Shadow of the Colossus
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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I understand why it isn't perfect, but if you've never played a perfect game, then what the hell did Portal do to not be perfect? You even said yourself you couldn't criticize it.
"[Fighting a SotC Boss] is a game-playing experience that clicking your marines over to the Zerg stronghold can't really match."
Yeah... if you're playing a medium AI. The funny thing about Starcraft is the better you get, the better it gets. I didn't enjoy the original very much until I figured out what I was doing wrong, then I was hooked. Playing in gold or lower is like watching paint dry. Playing in diamond is nirvana. If it's the mechanics, whatever, but you CANNOT fault SC2 for lacking excitement or intensity. I've played all the blockbuster FPS, nothing gets blood pumping like a close SC1/2 match. Except maybe the 10th and 13th Colossi. I'm sure Shadow of the Colossus wouldn't have been very impressive if every fight was like the first one.
P.S. Shadow of the Colossus is my 4th favorite out of thousands of games, so nice to hear you like it and the review is great, but 1st favorite takes priority over 4th.
HIS "REVIEWS" ARE FOR ENTERTAINMENT. He was always a dock-mooner, you just read too much into things.
I do not exaggerate at ALL when I say I'm pretty damn sure I've played enough games to register 4 digits. I played this yesterday and easily named over 400 on my first try ( http://dom2d.squarespace.com/geek-mind/ ), at which point the game began to repeat itself. I've owned almost every major home console since the Atari 2600, and have over 250 games on my Steam account, which I only started using for non-valve games a few years ago. I have a set of 3 drawers under my desk full of boxed pc games, and two large boxes full of PC games in jewel cases on top of my entertainment center. I have an SNES and N64 still hooked up to my TV with a shelf full of games each, a shelf of Genesis games, half a shelf of NES games (I mostly rented back in those days), three shelves of PS2 games, a shelf of PS1, a shelf of half Wii and half PS3, and piles of gameboy, GBA, and DS games in a shoebox, and all the stuff I missed out on I caught up with on emulators.
These are my top 10:
01: Starcraft
02: Chrono Trigger
03: Portal
04: Shadow of the Colossus
05: Metal Gear Solid
06: Knights of the Old Republic
07: Zelda: Ocarina of Time
08: Starfox
09: Final Fantasy 6
10: Half-life
So yes, it's THAT good.
Yeah... if you're playing a medium AI. The funny thing about Starcraft is the better you get, the better it gets. I didn't enjoy the original very much until I figured out what I was doing wrong, then I was hooked. Playing in gold or lower is like watching paint dry. Playing in diamond is nirvana. If it's the mechanics, whatever, but you CANNOT fault SC2 for lacking excitement or intensity. I've played all the blockbuster FPS, nothing gets blood pumping like a close SC1/2 match. Except maybe the 10th and 13th Colossi. I'm sure Shadow of the Colossus wouldn't have been very impressive if every fight was like the first one.
P.S. Shadow of the Colossus is my 4th favorite out of thousands of games, so nice to hear you like it and the review is great, but 1st favorite takes priority over 4th.
If people are coming to Yahtzee for professional reviews, he's clearly doing his job wrong, and the video game industry is screwed because any hack with a blog could sway you idiots.Soushi said:
HIS "REVIEWS" ARE FOR ENTERTAINMENT. He was always a dock-mooner, you just read too much into things.
What genre do you like? I'm sure I can describe it exactly the same way.Bulit523 said:
Some "fag kid" at your lunch table at school? How old are you? Put Starcraft 1 on that list while you're at it. Maybe you'll have a few hairs on your balls when you're done.Grabbin Keelz said:
There's 16 boss fights and YES.Odjin said:
I do not exaggerate at ALL when I say I'm pretty damn sure I've played enough games to register 4 digits. I played this yesterday and easily named over 400 on my first try ( http://dom2d.squarespace.com/geek-mind/ ), at which point the game began to repeat itself. I've owned almost every major home console since the Atari 2600, and have over 250 games on my Steam account, which I only started using for non-valve games a few years ago. I have a set of 3 drawers under my desk full of boxed pc games, and two large boxes full of PC games in jewel cases on top of my entertainment center. I have an SNES and N64 still hooked up to my TV with a shelf full of games each, a shelf of Genesis games, half a shelf of NES games (I mostly rented back in those days), three shelves of PS2 games, a shelf of PS1, a shelf of half Wii and half PS3, and piles of gameboy, GBA, and DS games in a shoebox, and all the stuff I missed out on I caught up with on emulators.
These are my top 10:
01: Starcraft
02: Chrono Trigger
03: Portal
04: Shadow of the Colossus
05: Metal Gear Solid
06: Knights of the Old Republic
07: Zelda: Ocarina of Time
08: Starfox
09: Final Fantasy 6
10: Half-life
So yes, it's THAT good.
Oh wow, you're no higher than gold, are you? Spam the best unit? Yeah, don't worry about scouting, adapting, positioning, cheesing, harassing, expanding, denying, sniping, hiding, or countering, just mass Stalkers every single game. You're guaranteed to win, right?! Come back when you're Diamond, and I /might/ take you seriously.Warforger said:
Is it whole horses that tickle his fancy, or just certain parts of them?
Anyway, I never expected such a treat as to have Yahtzee review Shadow of the Colossus, and now he has. Huh. I enjoyed every part of that game, but my favourite part wasn't the Colossi, it was the climbing mechanic. I found it actually better than Prince of Persia (which was situational)! That, however, is the main reason why I was disappointed by the game... there was little replay value because all the interesting places (save one; you know what I'm talking about) are directly related to a Colossus and once they're dead the place isn't the same. I don't know why the Time Attack exists, and I don't know why none of the fun toys you get from completing it were used in the actual gameplay.
Anyway, I figured that the reason eating the lizards and fruits made you strong was the same reason killing the Colossi did... you're doing forbidden things in a forbidden land, and it's corrupting you. It's helpful, but it's not good for his soul, or whatever. It's not my body so I pretty much corrupted it as much as I wanted.
Anyway, I never expected such a treat as to have Yahtzee review Shadow of the Colossus, and now he has. Huh. I enjoyed every part of that game, but my favourite part wasn't the Colossi, it was the climbing mechanic. I found it actually better than Prince of Persia (which was situational)! That, however, is the main reason why I was disappointed by the game... there was little replay value because all the interesting places (save one; you know what I'm talking about) are directly related to a Colossus and once they're dead the place isn't the same. I don't know why the Time Attack exists, and I don't know why none of the fun toys you get from completing it were used in the actual gameplay.
Anyway, I figured that the reason eating the lizards and fruits made you strong was the same reason killing the Colossi did... you're doing forbidden things in a forbidden land, and it's corrupting you. It's helpful, but it's not good for his soul, or whatever. It's not my body so I pretty much corrupted it as much as I wanted.
This whole review and the comments regarding both games hit you pretty close to home, huh? That's a good essay you've got going on there.TheBaron87 said:
I know I did something along these lines last week but I'll do it again in a slightly more aggressive tone. Note that this is NOT to convince Yahtzee to review something that he doesn't enjoy, it's just calling him out.
Saying your opinion as a game reviewer doesn't matter on a certain genre is like saying you can't criticize dramas as a film critic. If you love games, you'll be able to criticize any game. My only gripe is that he never actually reviewed a Blizzard game (i.e. a very good PC game) and only wallows in beating the dead horse that is the current platform gaming era. I can't wait for the excuse he'll come up with to not review Diablo 3.
Saying your opinion as a game reviewer doesn't matter on a certain genre is like saying you can't criticize dramas as a film critic. If you love games, you'll be able to criticize any game. My only gripe is that he never actually reviewed a Blizzard game (i.e. a very good PC game) and only wallows in beating the dead horse that is the current platform gaming era. I can't wait for the excuse he'll come up with to not review Diablo 3.
It's okay, I don't really care for SCII either. I dislike RTS's in general-- all I ever got out of them was the feature, the gimmick of being able to select people and tell them to kill stuff. I call it a gimmick because, while the other things that RTS's have to offer might be otherwise deep and fun, it isn't my cupp-a tea so I never cared to do things more than once in them. I prefer a game where you're in the action, and while your strategy matters too, the majority of whether you'll succeed or not goes into the very moment of confrontation. I hate plotting where my army will go, but I like thinking about where I, and maybe a few friends will go.
And I know SCII has a third person mode. That's why I originally would have bought it. I mean, if anything would get me into RTS's, SCII would be it. In the mean time, I don't really have the money to get every game I could want and have to make my purchases wisely. Like Symphony of the Night.
And I know SCII has a third person mode. That's why I originally would have bought it. I mean, if anything would get me into RTS's, SCII would be it. In the mean time, I don't really have the money to get every game I could want and have to make my purchases wisely. Like Symphony of the Night.
<3 this review.
As for all the RTS folks out there crying that "SC2 didn't get a good review" get over it, a lot of gamers hate RTS.
For example, I happen to dislike RTS because it takes thy strategy out of strategy games. Basically I happen to think the design of a RTS starts with taking the idea for a good strategy game, then they take out the turns and lower the complexity so low a four year old can learn to play and win at the game and violla you have a RTS. Now there is still room for strategy in there, its just that your average gamer doesn't actually utilize it or even realize its there. Yes there is more to it than spamming your best unit and throwing them at the zergs, but you can actually win at many RTSs by doing just that.
I compare it to the difference between Chess and 10-second lightning chess. Yes all the same moves are possible there but the game looses a lot when you restrict each side to only 10 seconds and becomes almost exclusively about what can you can speed past your opponents defense. There is more finesse in regular chess.
As for all the RTS folks out there crying that "SC2 didn't get a good review" get over it, a lot of gamers hate RTS.
For example, I happen to dislike RTS because it takes thy strategy out of strategy games. Basically I happen to think the design of a RTS starts with taking the idea for a good strategy game, then they take out the turns and lower the complexity so low a four year old can learn to play and win at the game and violla you have a RTS. Now there is still room for strategy in there, its just that your average gamer doesn't actually utilize it or even realize its there. Yes there is more to it than spamming your best unit and throwing them at the zergs, but you can actually win at many RTSs by doing just that.
I compare it to the difference between Chess and 10-second lightning chess. Yes all the same moves are possible there but the game looses a lot when you restrict each side to only 10 seconds and becomes almost exclusively about what can you can speed past your opponents defense. There is more finesse in regular chess.
Once again, the so-called writer likes a storyless game with the most lazy developing studio ever. Bravo, Yahtzee.
(Yeah, I've played and finished psychonauts, half-life, SotC, painkiller...)
(Yeah, I've played and finished psychonauts, half-life, SotC, painkiller...)
I don't understand why anyone would pressure him to review Starcraft 2. There are plenty of reviews out there (including on this site), there are videos from Totalbiscuit (who covers the British Accent niche), and, most importantly of all, he has repeatedly stated that RTS games are not his forte (which begs the question, 'what is his forte?').
It's like trying to get a famous neuro-surgeon to perform a heart transplant; wrong area of expertise. It's nice that you're trying to force someone to do something they don't want to do, but all of polite society is laughing at you, as they tend to do.
It's like trying to get a famous neuro-surgeon to perform a heart transplant; wrong area of expertise. It's nice that you're trying to force someone to do something they don't want to do, but all of polite society is laughing at you, as they tend to do.
This is stupid. People are not asking Bioware to make an RTS, they are asking a critic to criticize.MajoraPersona said:
There's a HUGE difference between MAKING something (where the term 'area of expertise' applies) and CRITICIZING something.
God, I've yet to find an intelligent critique of SC among all this game snobbery. It's either 'RTS=bad' or 'in myyyy RTS we do all sorts of other things that SC doesn't do (aka,' mommy, why don't people like my game as much as SC?')'. None of it has any interest in understanding the game. They're just trying to write it off to justify their status as a gamer.
It doesn't really matter that Yahtzee doesn't like SC or RTSs because it's his job not to like most games. But the validation this gives to his peons is a bit annoying.
If only they had the maturity to accept that you don't have to 'get' something in order for it to be good.
It doesn't really matter that Yahtzee doesn't like SC or RTSs because it's his job not to like most games. But the validation this gives to his peons is a bit annoying.
If only they had the maturity to accept that you don't have to 'get' something in order for it to be good.