Zero Punctuation: Silent Hill: Downpour
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Usually when we say "western" it's not a geographic way of thinking. Lots of countries on the eastern side of the earth is considered western due to social and economic reasons. When it comes to game developers then it's usually split between western and Japanese.Sanmei said:
I think it might have something to do with the fact that almost every time that you see PH he's doing something horrible. For instance, when you first see him (at least I think it's the first time) he's literally raping the hell out of another monster, so you know right then that PH is the ultimate badass of the game, and pretty much every other time he's either chasing you with a spear, a sword so big even he has trouble dragging it around, (making a creepy screeching noise in the process) or killing Maria over and over in pretty brutal ways. Pretty much everything about Pyramid Head says "I'm a badass, you can't fight me, and I will eventually catch you" and that's why he works.Proverbial Jon said:
I think that monsters are scary either because of their looks, their movements, the sounds they make or their actions, the best having all 4, but a monster doesn't need all of them to be effective. With humanlike monsters it's a good idea to take advantage of the unsetting feeling that the uncanny valley causes while at the same time defying what a person's expectations of a human are. i.e. An effective humanlike enemy would move around in inhuman ways (crawling on the ground like a lizard or something for instance) and make very odd noises that you wouldn't expect from a human, or ones that you would expect if a human were to move that way (i.e. the sounds of bones twisting and breaking as the creature moves).
captcha: pin money.
I second that. Fatal Frame is easily the most terrifying game series I've ever seen. In fact, any one of them make Silent Hill 2 look tame by comparison. The games in the Fatal Frame series are probably the only games that truly scares me at all anymore.Slothboy said:
I don't really agree with Yahtzee on the combat, the combat in Downpour would've been good if:
A. The AI wasn't so mechanical and poor, sometimes it just stands there doing nothing, it's way too easy to wait for something to slowly stomp up to you while you wait, hit it, run back and repeat until it's dead (which provides you with an unnaturally safe and predictable feeling), it runs around like it doesn't know what it's doing and it can't go through open doors for some reason.
B. The game was scary, like Yahtzee mentioned the combat is more of a momentary annoyance, except that survival horror combat being scary is extremely important to have an effective combat experience otherwise it just isn't conveying the feeling of panic and vulnerability if it isn't, and it just defeats the purpose of it being sticky and difficult all together.
A. The AI wasn't so mechanical and poor, sometimes it just stands there doing nothing, it's way too easy to wait for something to slowly stomp up to you while you wait, hit it, run back and repeat until it's dead (which provides you with an unnaturally safe and predictable feeling), it runs around like it doesn't know what it's doing and it can't go through open doors for some reason.
B. The game was scary, like Yahtzee mentioned the combat is more of a momentary annoyance, except that survival horror combat being scary is extremely important to have an effective combat experience otherwise it just isn't conveying the feeling of panic and vulnerability if it isn't, and it just defeats the purpose of it being sticky and difficult all together.
I think that Konami should take a page from EA's marketing playbook and put up advertisements that read like so:
Am I really the only one that had nightmares from this game?
It wasn't the monsters, although those were still creepy just from the way they moved. It was that everything in the game looks like a malevolent face about to eat you. The walls, windows, sink faucets, random trash on the ground, even the chain link fences, all of it looks like faces. It bleeds this wretched demonic aura like you just walked right into the den of something that really hates you. It's the same feeling as just *knowing* there's monsters under the bed and no amount of reassuring will make them go away. To me, the normal town was almost spookier than the otherworld town. I guess maybe I'm just not desensitized to these games.
It wasn't the monsters, although those were still creepy just from the way they moved. It was that everything in the game looks like a malevolent face about to eat you. The walls, windows, sink faucets, random trash on the ground, even the chain link fences, all of it looks like faces. It bleeds this wretched demonic aura like you just walked right into the den of something that really hates you. It's the same feeling as just *knowing* there's monsters under the bed and no amount of reassuring will make them go away. To me, the normal town was almost spookier than the otherworld town. I guess maybe I'm just not desensitized to these games.
I actually really enjoyed Downpour myself, but it took some time.
At the start of the game (the very early stages of the town), it all just seemed a little odd, and threw it had a habit of throwing a lot of rather un-subtle attempts to be scary at you.
However, as I progressed further, the game ended up crossing into a new territory: unlike the other Silent Hill games, this game went for extreme surrealism in everything it did. Everything that kept happening just became more and more interesting and weird, and it pulled me right into all the madness that was going on. It threw in some simple, yet very strange and clever ideas that gave the game such a bizarre personality that I couldn't help but enjoy it.
The story kept me going, and it did a great job of handling some very dark subject matters (not that the other games haven't.) While some of the reveals were a bit predictable, the game presented them in a good way, which was a big step forward from the other american-developed games.
The only real complain I had about the game was the monsters. They weren't exactly scary (hell, some of them were actually kind of hilarious), and didn't seem to "have anything to do" with Murphy (unlike Silent Hill 2.) Some of the music seemed a little unfitting (most notably the music during combat), but that was hardly a problem.
I even found the game to be pretty scary at times (I played it at night), especially in those dark apartment buildings and such. While the "dark and worn" aspect of the areas is all good, what really got me was this:
In every house and hallway, there always seemed to be something "off" about them, which I thought was very unsettling somehow. It seemed like there might have happened something terrible in certain areas (aside from the monsters and stuff), but you were never completely sure. For me, that was a great scare factor; it was constantly creepy and filled with uncertainty, like the older games.
I don't think it's the new Silent Hill, but as a game alone, I found it very enjoyable.
It seems like the developers really made a big effort of making this something great.
It wasn't as good as Silent Hill 2 (let's face it; nothing will be as good as that), but it was far, far, FAR superior to both Homecoming and Origins (and I even thought Homecoming was an okay game, if nothing that special.) It was flawed at points, with some annoying parts in the combat and some awful screen-tearing and graphical flaws, but that never ruined the essential experience of the game. It explored both old and new ideas of the Silent Hill franchise, which blended together very well. There were also some neat references to older games, none of which seemed out of place for me.
Overall, I had a great time with Downpour, and it's definitely one of the better survival-horror games I've seen in a while.
At the start of the game (the very early stages of the town), it all just seemed a little odd, and threw it had a habit of throwing a lot of rather un-subtle attempts to be scary at you.
However, as I progressed further, the game ended up crossing into a new territory: unlike the other Silent Hill games, this game went for extreme surrealism in everything it did. Everything that kept happening just became more and more interesting and weird, and it pulled me right into all the madness that was going on. It threw in some simple, yet very strange and clever ideas that gave the game such a bizarre personality that I couldn't help but enjoy it.
The story kept me going, and it did a great job of handling some very dark subject matters (not that the other games haven't.) While some of the reveals were a bit predictable, the game presented them in a good way, which was a big step forward from the other american-developed games.
The only real complain I had about the game was the monsters. They weren't exactly scary (hell, some of them were actually kind of hilarious), and didn't seem to "have anything to do" with Murphy (unlike Silent Hill 2.) Some of the music seemed a little unfitting (most notably the music during combat), but that was hardly a problem.
I even found the game to be pretty scary at times (I played it at night), especially in those dark apartment buildings and such. While the "dark and worn" aspect of the areas is all good, what really got me was this:
In every house and hallway, there always seemed to be something "off" about them, which I thought was very unsettling somehow. It seemed like there might have happened something terrible in certain areas (aside from the monsters and stuff), but you were never completely sure. For me, that was a great scare factor; it was constantly creepy and filled with uncertainty, like the older games.
I don't think it's the new Silent Hill, but as a game alone, I found it very enjoyable.
It seems like the developers really made a big effort of making this something great.
It wasn't as good as Silent Hill 2 (let's face it; nothing will be as good as that), but it was far, far, FAR superior to both Homecoming and Origins (and I even thought Homecoming was an okay game, if nothing that special.) It was flawed at points, with some annoying parts in the combat and some awful screen-tearing and graphical flaws, but that never ruined the essential experience of the game. It explored both old and new ideas of the Silent Hill franchise, which blended together very well. There were also some neat references to older games, none of which seemed out of place for me.
Overall, I had a great time with Downpour, and it's definitely one of the better survival-horror games I've seen in a while.
How can you people say with a straight face that the monsters don't relate back to Murphy?
The Juggernaut - Der, Other Prisoners
The Void - The Truth that Murphy is running from
The Screamer - The wife who abandoned him
Weeping Bat - Solitary Confinement
SH Downpour Spoilers
Wheelman - Frank Coleridge
The Bogeyman - Hatred and the desire of Judging
The Doll - Fragility, Distractions, and Victimization
Wall Corpse - being bound up
It's just dishonest to say that they don't. I've seen less symbolism in SH3 then any other SH and people think this one lacks symbolism? For shame
The Juggernaut - Der, Other Prisoners
The Void - The Truth that Murphy is running from
The Screamer - The wife who abandoned him
Weeping Bat - Solitary Confinement
SH Downpour Spoilers
Wheelman - Frank Coleridge
The Bogeyman - Hatred and the desire of Judging
The Doll - Fragility, Distractions, and Victimization
Wall Corpse - being bound up
It's just dishonest to say that they don't. I've seen less symbolism in SH3 then any other SH and people think this one lacks symbolism? For shame
Well yes , heavy rain was a murder mistery , but silent hill downpour has something like that too . Its about a man who kills a guard in prison .It isnt said why he did kill him or why he is in prison and the reasons change with the actions of the protagonist .-Dragmire- said:
To me is good , because the actions are fitting the character in motion .
After working there the last 3 or 4 years, I can safely say that I do not ever want to go to Las Vegas should Blackpool resemble it in any small way.Look-a-Hill said:
Fuck you Mr. Croshaw, I?ll have you know as a resident to the sea-side shithole that is Blackpool we have significantly less piss and syringes bobbing about in the sea now; although due to all the hen nights we probably have a much larger infestation of nurses with hideous facial disfigurement.
You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. I swear I thought he was gonna take a baseball bat to this game's kneecaps but he didn't. So it looks like I might get this game then at some point later on in the year when it's a little cheaper.algalon said:
Good horror is like chili. It simmers for awhile--lets you take in the ambiance, asking you to stir it occasionally so you don't get burnt out (usually dropping you a curiosity or a crisis to resolve--a dead wife's message, a missing sister to find)--and then serves you up a delicious treat. Bad horror settles at the bottom of the pot, stagnating and burning to the bottom--and you're left with a sub-par game of some other genre, which falls short of mention. (See F.E.A.R.)
One thing that Silent Hill 2 did well was to not only face you with monsters that resembled humans that lacked the 'soul' and proper behavior of humans, or place you in dilapidated and dangerous environments, but to give you a drive to keep navigating the horrid mess, instead of fleeing.
Good Survival Horror 'traps' your character with a certain omnipresence, and personal involvement.
Fatal Frame II and III do this particularly well. The former involves twin sisters coping with an accident that has made the one dependent on the other, when the injured sister wanders off into a haunted village that keeps repeating its own downfall--and the latter involves a woman with survivor's guilt, taking a picture of her dead boyfriend wandering a dilapidated mansion, and becoming trapped in nightmares, chasing him through an alternate-reality.
Unlike crap like Amy, these games also know how to keep you on a leash without reminding you too hard that there IS one. So you end up sympathizing with the character's plight, and feel the danger they feel, instead of wanting to see them get slaughtered for their ineptness (like in slasher movies). Silent Hill 2 does this by allowing James to become attached to the other survivors, (particularly a facsimile of his dead wife) as a reprieve from his own encounters with his personal demons (juxtaposition), while Fatal Frame II achieves this by making your sister's fate and increasing connection with the ghosts of the village a plot point, instead of hindering your game play experience by constantly having her threatened by enemies (HELP ME LEON!!!).
One thing that Silent Hill 2 did well was to not only face you with monsters that resembled humans that lacked the 'soul' and proper behavior of humans, or place you in dilapidated and dangerous environments, but to give you a drive to keep navigating the horrid mess, instead of fleeing.
Good Survival Horror 'traps' your character with a certain omnipresence, and personal involvement.
Fatal Frame II and III do this particularly well. The former involves twin sisters coping with an accident that has made the one dependent on the other, when the injured sister wanders off into a haunted village that keeps repeating its own downfall--and the latter involves a woman with survivor's guilt, taking a picture of her dead boyfriend wandering a dilapidated mansion, and becoming trapped in nightmares, chasing him through an alternate-reality.
Unlike crap like Amy, these games also know how to keep you on a leash without reminding you too hard that there IS one. So you end up sympathizing with the character's plight, and feel the danger they feel, instead of wanting to see them get slaughtered for their ineptness (like in slasher movies). Silent Hill 2 does this by allowing James to become attached to the other survivors, (particularly a facsimile of his dead wife) as a reprieve from his own encounters with his personal demons (juxtaposition), while Fatal Frame II achieves this by making your sister's fate and increasing connection with the ghosts of the village a plot point, instead of hindering your game play experience by constantly having her threatened by enemies (HELP ME LEON!!!).
I'm pretty sure someone did take all the best ideas from Silent Hill 2 and make them into a totally different IP that is actually scary. I'm not sure if you've heard of it or anything, it's totally underground. And it's called AMNESIA.
FFS, just cause Silent Hill went to shit lately, the genre isn't dead. Amnesia was pee your pants scary, and Alan Wake was a good game, though signifigantly less scary than Amnesia.
FFS, just cause Silent Hill went to shit lately, the genre isn't dead. Amnesia was pee your pants scary, and Alan Wake was a good game, though signifigantly less scary than Amnesia.
Amnesia and Silent Hill are only superficially alike, they're both totally different. Amnesia certainly didn't take the best ideas from Silent Hill either, it took good ideas from Call of Cthulhu, executed them better and paired them with some mediocre pseudo-Lovecraft writing and characters, presumably because they would've felt bad for totally copying instead of just partially copying.Jennacide said:
