Zero Punctuation: Super Mario 3D Land & Rayman Origins
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
But...Crash Bandicoot was fun!
The platforming was a bit wonky but that was greatly improved upon in the sequels.
OT: This was the funniest episode in a long time.
The platforming was a bit wonky but that was greatly improved upon in the sequels.
OT: This was the funniest episode in a long time.
Stars? Seriously, you're going to complain about collecting stars in a game that doesn't have a single star to collect?
Also, someone should nudge Croshaw and let him know that the 3DS isn't a "failure" anymore and thus is no longer en vogue to blindly dump on it.
Also: both SM3DL and R:O are awesome!
Also, someone should nudge Croshaw and let him know that the 3DS isn't a "failure" anymore and thus is no longer en vogue to blindly dump on it.
Also: both SM3DL and R:O are awesome!
What points about 3D Land's actual content did he make? I watched it three minutes ago and this is what I remember:Guilherme Zoldan said:
-The basic premise (rescue Peach) is the same as many previous Super Mario games
-There are less levels than its console brethren
-You are collecting stars again (factually untrue, may have been a joke?)
-The raccoon tale is featured prominently
-The optical illusion trick is sparingly used
-Croshaw doesn't personally like the 3DS as a console
Is there anything I missed? You'll notice none of these address the actual gameplay, even though that was the main focus on the Rayman segment.
Actually, you do need a certain amount of star coins to unlock later levels, so it's still more or less true, it's just not forced on you until pretty late anyway.
I'd like to point out that the first half of the game seems designed to get newer players accustomed to Mario games in general.
The second half is pleasant for about one world or so, and then throws you off the deep end into madness, culminating in the last level, which has no powerups and features single block sized platforms and areas in which you cannot scale without moving at full speed and height, with those tiny block platforms.
Some may have more ease than others, but the largest impediment is that Mario takes longer to get to full speed, your momentum is easy to lose, and the camera angles are pretty much fighting you all the way due to the near mandatory isometric perspective, which is why the 3D is important to gauge your jump distances sometimes (sure it's not required, but the story gets different when you blow a jump for the fifth time because you think you're going to make it).
People say it's too easy with the leaf powerup but I say it's compensating for Mario's push towards more realistic momentum in a game where if you're not within the confines of the stage, all you'll get is a giant fall of doom (as opposed to large physical barriers in other 3D Mario games), and that it's very easy to fall off the rails if you screw up your timing or in certain segments, accidentally slip slightly sideways when you should only push in one direction, and you're forced to use the slide pad, which isn't as precise as a d-pad for exact directional movement. Imagine a 2D game in which you are in danger of falling off the screen in the fore or background at any second. Yep.
These things would be more forgivable in a cohesive setting.
I'd like to point out that the first half of the game seems designed to get newer players accustomed to Mario games in general.
The second half is pleasant for about one world or so, and then throws you off the deep end into madness, culminating in the last level, which has no powerups and features single block sized platforms and areas in which you cannot scale without moving at full speed and height, with those tiny block platforms.
Some may have more ease than others, but the largest impediment is that Mario takes longer to get to full speed, your momentum is easy to lose, and the camera angles are pretty much fighting you all the way due to the near mandatory isometric perspective, which is why the 3D is important to gauge your jump distances sometimes (sure it's not required, but the story gets different when you blow a jump for the fifth time because you think you're going to make it).
People say it's too easy with the leaf powerup but I say it's compensating for Mario's push towards more realistic momentum in a game where if you're not within the confines of the stage, all you'll get is a giant fall of doom (as opposed to large physical barriers in other 3D Mario games), and that it's very easy to fall off the rails if you screw up your timing or in certain segments, accidentally slip slightly sideways when you should only push in one direction, and you're forced to use the slide pad, which isn't as precise as a d-pad for exact directional movement. Imagine a 2D game in which you are in danger of falling off the screen in the fore or background at any second. Yep.
These things would be more forgivable in a cohesive setting.
And why arent those points that he brought up valid criticisms? Okay the joke points I get but his main complaint is basicaly that the game is just more of the same but with less content and half-hearted...and on a system he thinks is stupid.Nate-ndo said:
I have to wonder what compels me to aargue on the internet, no agreement will ever be reached or anything...probably boredom.
Which one of those is a criticism, exactly?Guilherme Zoldan said:
Saving Peach surely isn't, as anyone complaining about that has clearly missed the point and may as well complain that the goal of football (score the most points) never changes.
Merely mentioning that it has less content than another game isn't actually commenting on the amount of content this particular one has and thus is not an actual criticism (and would be invalid anyway, as it has 50+ unique stages, even before the special stage remixes).
Complaining about stars is flat wrong--the objective is to reach the end (obstacle course) and not star collection (missions).
Croshaw doesn't add any value qualifiers to the fact that the Tanooki suit is prolific; he merely states it, and thus is not a criticism. The same goes for the optical illusions--he only mentions that it is used three times, but never says if that is a good or bad thing.
Finally, saying that you don't like a platform isn't a criticism of a particular game on the platform.
So, again, when exactly did Croshaw speak to the merits (or lack thereof) of SM3DL? The closest he comes is growling when mentioning the game, vaguely indicating he's grown weary of the concept of Mario, not any specific issue with the game itself.
Not to say anything about the truthfulness of said criticisms, but in watching this review I learned a great deal as to why I might or might not like Rayman, whereas I learned very little regarding Mario.Nate-ndo said:
...
And I don't think it's valid to criticize a game for having similar gameplay as others in its franchise. That's why it's a franchise. If I wanted Mario to be a different game, I'd get a different game, but it sells because people want more of the Mario game. This complaint isn't actually aimed at anything in particular, not even Yahtzee, it was just on my mind after responding to the above.
The very first game I ever played was the original Rayman on the PS1. I was 9 when it was first released. I still have my copy, I love that game so much. 
I have not, however, played Rayman Origins, nor do I think I will. I haven't liked any of the games that came after the original, and am instead waiting to see if Ubisoft will ever do a remake of the original.
I have not, however, played Rayman Origins, nor do I think I will. I haven't liked any of the games that came after the original, and am instead waiting to see if Ubisoft will ever do a remake of the original.
Good show, Yahtzee.
Not that the recent ZPs were bad, mind, it just seemed like a bit of the joy had gone out of them. Perhaps it was the Christmas season, or the bevy of shooter sequels, or perhaps I just made it up. Whatever the case, you seem to have enjoyed making that one, and I'm pleased by the result. Carry on.
Not that the recent ZPs were bad, mind, it just seemed like a bit of the joy had gone out of them. Perhaps it was the Christmas season, or the bevy of shooter sequels, or perhaps I just made it up. Whatever the case, you seem to have enjoyed making that one, and I'm pleased by the result. Carry on.
I remember when I was a wee lad and I could never tell the difference between Rayman and Heddy.
Did he actually criticize Rayman: Origins in any way?
Aw shucks, no release for PC or Gameboy: Color. Guess I'll be missing out on this one.
Dammit pirates, stop teasing me with your emulated PC versions. I know it's a service problem and that UbiSoft is an absolute dick to PC players, stop tempting me!
Aw shucks, no release for PC or Gameboy: Color. Guess I'll be missing out on this one.
Dammit pirates, stop teasing me with your emulated PC versions. I know it's a service problem and that UbiSoft is an absolute dick to PC players, stop tempting me!
There's also that 3D remake of Cave Story, and a downloadable game called Pushmo that I started playing a few days ago, it's pretty good.
To be honest, I wasn't entirely sold on the 3DS until I actually got one. I was pretty much anti-3DS once it was announced, but I got one, and now I love it.
To be honest, I wasn't entirely sold on the 3DS until I actually got one. I was pretty much anti-3DS once it was announced, but I got one, and now I love it.
Im not going to go on defending his review, its quite a waste of time actualy. All I am trying to say is that if you guys politely disagreed instead of getting defensive and whinning you'd sound a lot less like immature fanboys.