Zero Punctuation: Super Mario Maker

bluegate

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LordTerminal said:
First of all, I DID grow past Nintendo. It's not my fault they're the only one of the big 3 that I can trust outside of smaller companies and indie devs. And second, yeah you just proved you are a snob. Just like Yahtzee. I clearly don't see anyone making said complaints on the other companies other than Konami and Capcom and you're complaining about something as superficial as making Bloopers function like Castlevania Medusa Heads? First of all, that's your problem and second, you can just attach Bloopers to tracks for that effect.
I bet you are the kind of guy that people just walk out on mid-conversation because they just can't be bothered to talk with you anymore. If you don't see people complaining about other companies then you simply aren't looking in the right places, because there are a lot of people complaining about a plethora of things regarding other companies.

I do hope people keep replying to people like you, although you guys are a pain to talk with, it's fun to read other people talking with people like you, cheerio!
 

F-I-D-O

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LordTerminal said:
Michael Prymula said:
I fail to see how i'm a "snob" just cause i'm sick of Nintendo's bullshit and i'm not blindly sucking them off like most fanboys are.

Sony doesn't fucking attack Let's Players like their criminals like Nintendo does, I can easily ignore microtransactions and DLC that I don't care about, but when you start fucking with people who only want to share their enjoyment of your games and you try and sue someone for copyright over bullshit reasons, then you've crossed a fucking line, people like you are what's wrong with the gaming industry, blindly defending Nintendo's bullshit practices. If anyone's "not fit to be called a gamer", it's YOU, you're exactly the kind of blindly defensive Nintendo fanboy that Yahtzee has been criticizing for all these years.
Sony also doesn't repay people whose credit card accounts are hacked and barely makes jack all in terms of 1st party exclusives. And the ones they DO make are shameless pandering.

Don't ever say I'm not fit to be a called a gamer! I'm more of one than the modern day gamers that exist today!

BTW:

Also ROM-hacking is NOT illegal, it's amazing how many people are misinformed and ignorant on that subject.
Yes it is! I rest my case.
As someone who had credit card info compromised due to one of the Sony hacks, I got compensated. And then got store credit from them (as per usual company responses, as a way of saying here's some extra money for our system).
And please tell me how:

Journey
Bloodborne
Until Dawn
Infamous: Second Son/First Light
Unfinished Swan
Helldivers
Sound Shapes
LittleBigPlanet series
Twisted Metal

are shameless pandering? Granted, some of those were just published by Sony. Completely different than

Bayonnetta 2
Pokemon
Metroid Prime
Hyrule Warriors
Xenoblade Chronicles
Wonderful 101
Fire Emblem
Star Fox Zero

which are all completely developed by Nintendo, yep.

Nintendo, for all the great things it's done recently, has had equally backward and seemingly random polices that seem counter intuitive to the community they've been growing. Nintendo Direct - great way of showing that they get more of the internet culture than Sony/Microsoft/Ubisoft, and (usually) a fairly watchable presentation. Nintendo Partners program - let's screw over anyone wanting to talk about our games who relies on youtube for an income. Amiibo - people want figures, let's make cheap ones that can be easily mass produced and work with your games! And then artificially create shortages by delivering less to certain regions because there's scalpers and rather respond with inventory we're just abandon your region.
That doesn't make Nintendo better or worse than other companies - it just makes it more disappointing because it gets so many things right, and then fucks it up in the eleventh hour.

Also, the act of hacking and modifying ROMs isn't illegal. Distributing FULL ROMs of game is, hence why many are ROM patches that are applied on top of existing ROMs or to software through homebrew.
Getting a ROM is technically not illegal, as there has been no formal (at least in the US) legislation overriding the idea of a customer's right to a personal backup of purchased data. EULAs might have specific wording, but the contradiction has prevented strict, set precedents to be established in courts. Distributing ROMs or selling hacks for personal gain IS strictly illegal, as it infringes on the intellectual property rights outlined under copyright law. Modifying a ROM is no more illegal than rewriting a chapter of Game of Thrones and showing it to a friend. Selling that chapter would be, unless it underwent intense modification to be considered enough of a divergent work (see the publication history of the terrible but in this case relevant fanfiction turned bestseller 50 Shades of Gray). Recording gameplay of a ROM and posting it online remains as unclear as the a strict recording of the original game, legally speaking. However, the act of making and freely distributing ROMs, like the old way method for community made Mario levels, is NOT illegal. It may be frowned upon, but it is currently not defined as an act of piracy. The method taken to get the base ROM itself may have been (and is a different act), but modifying it wasn't.
For similar reasons, people who watch streams of televised shows aren't regularly prosecuted - it's not illegal to watch that type of material, since it's almost impossible to prove in a court that the specific viewed stream was illegal, and that the viewers knew they were watching an illegal distribution of the work.
Granted, all of that could quickly change given Trans-Pacific Partnership and other legislation currently getting debated on/defined currently. There still remains no clear case than can be pointed to for a set legal precedent on ROMs, youtube videos, or similar issues in gaming.

This video shouldn't generate content for the maker/recorder, since it features Mario gameplay AND a Queen song. However, making the level is perfectly fine, and using the song in that level is also legally a-ok. Selling it or attempting to generate revenue from exploiting the derivative work is where the problem arises.

Final point - You play games. Congratulations. Never would have realized that from you posting on a gaming forum on a topic about a review from about a video game. That does not make you more or less of a person who plays games than a six year old playing Bejeweled on their parent's tablet.
 

F-I-D-O

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1981 said:
Silvanus said:
I've really never understood the charge that releasing a level editor is lazy. It's such a nonsensical accusation; level editors are some of the most appreciated and versatile platforms for interacting with a franchise, and Nintendo have more than proven they're willing and capable of making their own fun & functional levels in large numbers.
I've only heard the accusation a couple of times, and it was aimed at indie games that have mediocre content. Maybe it's incompetence rather than laziness. If the devs don't have the skill to design good puzzles and/or platforming sequences, it's unlikely the community has. But people are more invested in established franchises, so it could work.
I think the difference is making a glorified text editor to go with minimal content, or making a fleshed out editor on top of an existing, fully featured game. As someone who's made a level editor for a small project, it's a massive pain to get working, and even more to get usable.
Mario Maker is interesting in that it doesn't feature too much in the realm of created content (leading some to think JUST releasing the editor was lazy), but it has a helpful tutorial method, and the amount of depth offered seems to contradict the ease with which levels can be made. It's level creation method of limiting a player to only 10 at first is great for developing a creative community, since it encourages quality levels (which unlock more slots) over throw away ones.
Compared to Little Big Planet, which had a fantastic editor for simple platforming levels, and allowed a large amount of variety, but was hard to wrap around and it's systems weren't particularly suited to the control scheme. Halo's forge had similar issues, but as you said, was associated with a beloved franchise, driving more people to go beneath the initial surface. It's just disappointing seeing no real new levels from Nintendo, as it did make the game a crowd-sourced endeavor. If Maker hadn't sold well, it'd be a ghost town of a game with no content to encourage new players to buy it, compounding the problem (see LittleBigKarting, ModNation Racers, or even EndWar). I think the backlash comes from a fear of the game having no "good" content, which was luckily circumvented by the early adopters.
 

Logience

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Oh my god, this has got to be the slowest year in video game history.

Just for shits and giggles, does anyone have a video showing those aforementioned autoscroll novelty levels?
 

marioandsonic

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Something Amyss said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Considering he did nothing out of those things, that list only qualifies as a waste of time.
Or an exercise in irony, since it misportrays Yahtzee over him misportraying a game.
Honestly? I just wanted an excuse to get drunk.

But yeah, he didn't really do any of that list, so it was a waste of time.

I even got my Skittles-infused vodka out of the freezer for nothing!

...

Well, guess I shouldn't let it go to waste.

*glug glug glug*
 

Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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I've played around with Mario Maker at a friend's house. I liked the idea. Hell, I can imagine some other franchises I would love to see do similar things, like Sonic. However, even in my short time with it, I found some real annoyances.

It lacks a lot of things to make levels more dynamic. For example, there is no way to make a slope. Making a level I wanted to have a slope so Mario could slide down and take out some enemies (and potentially get smashed by a Thwomp if they don't pay attention), but was annoyed to find such things missing. I also found the game lacked certain platforms, like the hanging ones from Mario 3.

All in all, I feel like Mario Maker is a sort of "Baby's First Level Designer" and it's probably the first such game I ever played.

Now, let's watch the Nintendo Defense Force completely forget who Yahtzee is and freak out.
 

Muspelheim

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Speaking of 'gaminghood', as it where, I wonder where I would fit in. The only Nintendo-product I've ever owned was a Mario-themed pez-dispencer. I've played about half an hour total of Nintendo titles at parties and get-togethers.

Still, Mario-Maker sounded fun on paper. Not something for me, but it could've been a good, fun learning platform for level design.
 

Silvanus

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Something Amyss said:
IS this any of those, though? People love it and it looks fun, but a lot of complaints are all the same. That it lacks a lot of functionality, that the "connection" is a farce, etc.
Both valid criticisms (if true; I've not experienced much of a problem connecting so far, since you can easily see all made by a creator). I'm only disagreeing with his little dig about ROM hacks rendering a professional level editor unnecessary.
 

Darth_Payn

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The Almighty Aardvark said:
craddoke said:
Thanatos2k said:
craddoke said:
IceStar100 said:
Is there anything Nintendo won't put Mario in now?
Another movie?
Another cartoon series?
The public domain?
Peach?
A comic book series? Seriously, Mega Man and Sonic the Hedgehog are still in comic books currently being published.
Something Amyss said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Considering he did nothing out of those things, that list only qualifies as a waste of time.
Or an exercise in irony, since it misportrays Yahtzee over him misportraying a game.
Dang, that's really clever.

captcha: which one is math?
But you don't mean in the "Adventure Time" sense of the word.
 

Mr.Mattress

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Darth_Payn said:
The Almighty Aardvark said:
craddoke said:
Thanatos2k said:
craddoke said:
IceStar100 said:
Is there anything Nintendo won't put Mario in now?
Another movie?
Another cartoon series?
The public domain?
Peach?
A comic book series? Seriously, Mega Man and Sonic the Hedgehog are still in comic books currently being published.
Mario had a Comic Book Series. A kick ass one at that. It's just that they only did it for one year, and then had 2 Wario-related Specials. It's called Super Mario Adventures.

 

Nazulu

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Really? It doesn't even let you choose backgrounds and certain things need to be unlocked when it should let you do whatever you want? In a full priced game? Fucking hell! Nintendo are so bloody hopeless.

Could you even get rid of that stupid shadow on everything?
 

Gorrath

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Silvanus said:
Something Amyss said:
IS this any of those, though? People love it and it looks fun, but a lot of complaints are all the same. That it lacks a lot of functionality, that the "connection" is a farce, etc.
Both valid criticisms (if true; I've not experienced much of a problem connecting so far, since you can easily see all made by a creator). I'm only disagreeing with his little dig about ROM hacks rendering a professional level editor unnecessary.
Well said criticism/dig does stand if said professional level editor offers no great benefit over a ROM editor at a much greater expense, right? A poor quality "professional" level editor that costs 60 bucks but is little or no more useful than the free ROM ones is rendered unnecessary by its free counterparts is it not? That's not to say that having the free ones would render any and all possible professional ones unnecessary, just perhaps this one in particular.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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LordTerminal said:
Yahtzee is biased against Nintendo label
He's biased against user-generated content, if anything. With good reason, too. Take a long look at the top rated Mario Maker levels and tell me he doesn't have a point.

But if you want to hear him harp on other companies, look no further than this same exact video, in which he quotes Sony's LittleBigPlanet as an example of the same things for which he's criticizing Mario Maker.
 

Ryallen

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Jesus Christ. That... a lot of the shit he gave Nintendo seemed to be just unnecessary, and now I'm not entirely convinced that he doesn't just hates Nintendo as a whole. I mean... pedophilia, slaughter and subsequent defiling of said corpse out of literally fucking nowhere. Yeah, he likes a few games, and I know that Nintendo isn't good at dealing with Youtubers as a whole, but... I mean... really? It just seemed excessive this time around. Like, this is the sort of thing that he'd do with EA or Activision or any game company that consistently puts out games that no one likes, least of all Yahtzee. And it seems to me that he is convinced that no one likes Nintendo, despite heavy evidence to the contrary.
 

Canadamus Prime

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A lot of my problems with Super Mario Maker stem from how bare bones the tools are esp. when compared to some fan made tools.
 

Silvanus

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Gorrath said:
Well said criticism/dig does stand if said professional level editor offers no great benefit over a ROM editor at a much greater expense, right? A poor quality "professional" level editor that costs 60 bucks but is little or no more useful than the free ROM ones is rendered unnecessary by its free counterparts is it not? That's not to say that having the free ones would render any and all possible professional ones unnecessary, just perhaps this one in particular.
That would be true, but I don't think he could seriously suggest fan-made ROM hacks offer the same product.

canadamus_prime said:
A lot of my problems with Super Mario Maker stem from how bare bones the tools are esp. when compared to some fan made tools.
That's an issue I have with it. Can't see much reason not to include the full casts of enemies from the four styles, for example. Variety is life to this kind of game.