Zero Punctuation: Syndicate

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Andy of Comix Inc

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doggie015 said:
You've still got more gametraders stores than us over in Western Australia! We've only got the one in Centro Galleria in Morley

OT: The more I see game remakes into FPS, the more I dread the day when they decide to make MLP into an FPS
We don't have any here in Tasmania. Hell, we only have one Starbucks I think. WHAT KIND OF BACKWARDS STATE IS THIS D:<

Also, MLP is already a fighting game [http://www.mane6.com/] so stop dreading and start counting the days. Doomsday clock at 5 minutes to midnight... death by ponies... :(
 

ACman

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It seem that EA's good decisions regarding Syndicate were all peripheral to the actual game such as hyping the Big-name musicians and writer and forgetting that they might have to put something imaginative into the actual game.

I think they missed out by ditching the original Syndicate's mindless automatons controlled by corporation chips. In this mode as a Coporation Executive you'd be floating above a zone controlling FOUR agents not one. Yes in first person mode you could really only control one agent at a time but you could switch between them while the rest could be controlled by AI that you manage with the Adrenaline/Perception/Intelligence drugs from the original game.
 

ViewFinder

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targren said:
ViewFinder said:
The end summed these reboots up quite nicely.
You mean the part of about the target audience being the ones who would either not know about the original, or just not have been the ones who liked it?
Mostly that part, yes.

I've wondered that myself. Do these marketroids honestly expect nostalgia to carry them through beyond the first sucker with a web show getting tricked, then making enough noise to warn his contemporaries of the scam?

I'm seriously curious. Do they actually promote this sort of "thinking" to the soulless hordes going for marketing degrees?
I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at, English not being my first language and all that, but I suppose yes, some could think that way.
 

kingmob

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The ending words is exactly what I've been wondering all this time (same with the xcom shooter). Who is responsible for this clearly stupid decision?
 

kingmob

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JohnnyDelRay said:
Atmos Duality said:
I was wondering about that myself actually. Why is it that everyone is up in arms about Syndicate, when Fallout 3, went in the opposite direction. When I first heard about VATS and all this FPS nonsense, I was plenty butthurt in the outset. Fallout Tactics being one of my favourite games, turned into an FPS game, I wanted to see blood.

I guess they just got off easier because Fallout turned out to be a pretty good game, and Syndicate was just as you said, a bland forgettable mess. Unfortunate timing as well, since Deus Ex actually managed to live up to some expectations, and is also kind of a modern entry of a classic, that just does the cyberpunk action/FPS that much better.

I don't even want to look up news about X-com. I just hope that this FPS remake will die off eventually, and they'll make remakes at least closer to the genre of the games they were originally. I'm going to get the new Jagged Alliance when the price drops a bit, fingers crossed they at least kept the atmosphere in that.
Probably because Fallout clearly isn't an FPS, but an RPG. An RPG that is in First person and where you shoot things yes, but that is not really the definition of an FPS now is it?
The change in perspective didn't really fundamentally change why people played fallout that much.
I can't believe I've read this several times in this thread already, since the situations are so clearly different. Some people may not like where Fallout 3 went, but it was clearly made with Fallout in mind. Fallout tactics is more the odd-man out in this universe.
 

Denamic

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Atmos Duality said:
Hmm. Random thoughts.

When Fallout gets remade into a shooter, it's accepted with blind fan glee, accolades and awards (to some small amount of polarizing controversy).

When X-COM gets remade into a shooter, it's rebuked by a chorus of hate so strong that it forced 2k to give Firaxis the task of making a much more awesome looking game.

When Syndicate gets remade into a shooter, it's accompanied by another chorus of hate, said hate is ignored, and nobody is surprised when it turns out to be a bland forgettable mess that virtually nobody likes or wants.

What a shock.

Now we just have to see how the X-COM games turn out.
Fallout didn't manage the transition to first person without flak.
In fact, it weathered a shitstorm before it got released.
It managed to stick to its roots and was good enough to endear most of Fallout 1 and 2's fanbase.
Besides, it's not a generic FPS; it's still an RPG, only with guns and in first person perspective.

Syndicate gets shit because people expected it to be another it to be another victim of FPSitis.
And they were right.
All that made Sydicate good was completely scrapped.

And X-COM is getting shit because the game looks like yet another victim of FPSitis.

Why developers take old and loved games and then rape them is beyond me.
"Hey guys, let's make a sequel to Freelancer! And let's remove the space stuff and make it an FPS!"
 

Atmos Duality

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Denamic said:
Fallout didn't manage the transition to first person without flak.
In fact, it weathered a shitstorm before it got released.
It managed to stick to its roots and was good enough to endear most of Fallout 1 and 2's fanbase.
Besides, it's not a generic FPS; it's still an RPG, only with guns and in first person perspective.
See, I never played the old Fallout titles, apart from a multiplayer spawn of Fallout Tactics at a LAN. I never had that pre-existing bias, so perhaps I just dodged a great deal of that flak by happenstance, because it wasn't NEARLY as intense as the rage and bile slung at Syndicate and X-COM.

Ironically, I was filled with rancor AFTER I played Fallout 3, not before.
Honestly, I never bought the "It's an RPG with guns, not a shooter" argument at all, though that goes beyond the scope of this topic just a bit.

kingmob said:
Probably because Fallout clearly isn't an FPS, but an RPG. An RPG that is in First person and where you shoot things yes, but that is not really the definition of an FPS now is it?
The change in perspective didn't really fundamentally change why people played fallout that much.
Fact is, most conflict is going to involve firearms, and you fight/act from the first person perspective. That's the definition of first-person-shooter. Now, whether you think FO3 is mostly a shooter or not, well, that's subjective (barely; it's nearly impossible to avoid the shooter elements without going out of your way, and VATS was implemented in a rather clunky manner towards that end).

However, it's safe to assume that Fallout 3 will at least appeal to shooter fans, which is good-enough for the sake of this topic and my point of discussion.

Denamic said:
Syndicate gets shit because people expected it to be another it to be another victim of FPSitis.
And they were right.
All that made Sydicate good was completely scrapped.

And X-COM is getting shit because the game looks like yet another victim of FPSitis.

Why developers take old and loved games and then rape them is beyond me.
It's the PUBLISHER who makes that decision. They're the people who buy up and own the actual Intellectual Property in the game business world, and they decide what sort of game gets made.

"Hey guys, let's make a sequel to Freelancer! And let's remove the space stuff and make it an FPS!"
The sad thing? As sarcastic and silly as that's meant to sound, I could honestly see someone pitching that idea at a shareholder meeting without a hint of irony.
 

Atmos Duality

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DOUBLE POST: For Readability. Don't hate.

JohnnyDelRay said:
I guess they just got off easier because Fallout turned out to be a pretty good game, and Syndicate was just as you said, a bland forgettable mess. Unfortunate timing as well, since Deus Ex actually managed to live up to some expectations, and is also kind of a modern entry of a classic, that just does the cyberpunk action/FPS that much better.
While DX:HR isn't without its faults, it's mostly a great game and well-received.
And I'm pretty sure that EA intended their Syndicate project to coincide with the boost in popularity DX:HR was going to bring to the cyberpunk genre. It was probably a gamble, but a good one.

If anything, this would be around the safest time to launch Syndicate (or any other cyberpunk shooter); they're not competing with the Christmas Blitz (CoD4.4, Skyrim, etc), yet the demand for cyberpunk is likely still there.

I don't even want to look up news about X-com. I just hope that this FPS remake will die off eventually, and they'll make remakes at least closer to the genre of the games they were originally. I'm going to get the new Jagged Alliance when the price drops a bit, fingers crossed they at least kept the atmosphere in that.
I'm guessing it won't die off. But looking on the bright side, the Squad-based tactics X-COM game getting made looks EXACTLY like what a modern imagining of an X-COM should. Modernized graphics, cleaner presentation, yet it's keeping the core elements alive, rather than discarding them entirely like how Syndicate did.

Of course, the X-COM shooter is still green-lit, but being pushed back to make way for the fore-mentioned tactics game first. Do with that what you will.

Incidentally, Firaxis released a new video for the tactics game called "Deep Dive". There's an article with the video right here on The Escapist.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.353287-XCom-Deep-Dive-Reveals-Deep-Tactics-and-Snazzy-Eye-Candy#14020012
 

Lord_Jaroh

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It's too bad that people have to purchase their "sightseeing tours" in order to find out the tour sucks and then they can't demand their money back from the developers or the publisher, and the publishers want to end used game sales so you have no way to get rid of the drek you just purchased. Especially since the whole industry is geared towards day 1 sales with their hype machines, and DLC "if" the game does good enough to warrent it (in most cases said DLC was cut content from the get-go, so if the game does poorly, you are stuck with an unfinished game)...

Boy isn't the games industry great!
 

Warforger

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daxterx2005 said:
People still buy EA games?
color me surprised
Yah I know after Battlefield 3, Stars Wars the Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 you'd think people would stop buying games by EA.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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doggie015 said:
I said FPS, not beat-'em-up.

Still... ... uhh... I... uhh........

....

Yeah; I got nothing!
Yeah, I saw you said FPS, just thought I'd bring that to your attention anyway. If those damn ponies can make their way into a fan-made fighting game, they can make their way into an FPS. I'm depressed now.
 

I.Muir

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It seemed worth the $25 or so I payed for it
Also never played the original so had no expectations to be crushed
 

imperialus

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Well at least Wasteland 2 is sitting at 1.1 million dollars in kickstarter money.

Seriously though, I think that (in my little world at least) 2012 is really going to be a banner year for indy games recreating old genres. Double Fine is doing their thing, Xenonauts has the X-Com banner waving around, Wasteland 2 has already hit its funding goal, Starfarer seems to be coming pretty darn close to scratching my StarControl 2 itch. All I really need now is for someone to do a Freespace 2 or Tie Fighter re-imagining.
 

Mahoshonen

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Warforger said:
daxterx2005 said:
People still buy EA games?
color me surprised
Yah I know after Battlefield 3, Stars Wars the Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 you'd think people would stop buying games by EA.
I think the most wonderful thing about this post is I have no clue whether your being serious or sarcastic.

And I'm perfectly okay with that.
 

Eiv

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trollpwner said:
Leviano said:
Love the London riots reference :)
What? Where? When? I'M CONFUSED RAARGH!!

(Seriously, I couldn't find anywhere. Some direction would be appreciated)
Around about 4:40. Think more of the day after the riots when boris got back :)
 

synthesis

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Yeah it's not a remake of the original syndicate anymore than Ocarina of time is a remake of the original zelda for nes, retardedness aside...

It's a FPS game that takes place in the same universe as low and behold the original syndicate game, does not = remake.

Yatzuh' seems more and more ignorant to the point of me wondering if he actually bothered to play the game(s), he just looked at a trailorz' and pulled some crap out of his arse, ofc we can't force a person to play a game he/she/it does not like, but don't bother to review it later.

the last 5 "can't call em reviews" made me facepalm at all the things he got wrong, he would probably describe Lara croft as a blone space explorer fighting the daleks with her trusty sidekick clank.