Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
You're the one claiming that he hasn't played the Zelda games and therefore doesn't know what he's talking about.CriticKitten said:
Huh... So you hate the Zelda games I like. I think Wind Waker is the best Game of the series. And Majora's Mask has an awesome creepiness to it. Points of view that are at odds with most of the Zelda Fan base.
By your definitions of review however, I'd still have to rate them lower than OoT and TP. A ridiculous proposition.
This complaint that Yahtzee doesn't know what he is talking about is false. The point that he hates the Zelda games is false (I doubt he even hates this one, he sounds disappointed more than anything.). The claim that he hasn't played the Zelda games is false. And the idea that reviews must to conform to some undeclared set of standards has no basis.
Reviewers across the internet have to put up with these accusations whenever some block-head thinks that a game automatically deserves universal acclaim. And the truly absurd thing is that people put so much vehemence into their arguments, vehemence which should be reserved for true outrages such as this:
http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-is-law-now-heres-what-you-need-to-know-2012-1
Or this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act
Or this.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/01/256823/pregnant-women-criminal-charges/
I can't find any reference to you hating Zelda Games. I'm sure it's there but unfortunately you're unable to you make your points pithily and concisely. Learn to self edit and maybe this wouldn't occur.
I really don't mind Yahtzee hating games I love but it really annoys me when he keeps insisting all the Zelda games are the same. It is a simple fact that this is entirely untrue. Almost everything changes from one game to the next save the 3 main characters and fundamental gameplay mechanics (which still got a shake up in Skyward Sword). I struggle to think of ANY series that changes as much from one instalment to the next as Zelda (would love if I could hear about it though, assuming it exists).
So far though, I would agree that this is the worst Zelda (not that that's a big criticism). It feels a lot smaller and much more linear.
So far though, I would agree that this is the worst Zelda (not that that's a big criticism). It feels a lot smaller and much more linear.
Honestly, I actually agree with this review, though I'll never get the people who say all zelda games are the same(same formula, sure, but there's usually a good enough twist to gameplay to change it up imo).
The game feels remarkably linear and small for a Zelda game, the controls are awkward as all hell(especially for a lefty...the irony of it all!), and WTF is with having save points? This isn't frickin' Metroid.
It's funny, but Skyward Sword actually feels like a regression from the original game in a couple of the fundamental elements of a game(saving, and exploration).
The game feels remarkably linear and small for a Zelda game, the controls are awkward as all hell(especially for a lefty...the irony of it all!), and WTF is with having save points? This isn't frickin' Metroid.
It's funny, but Skyward Sword actually feels like a regression from the original game in a couple of the fundamental elements of a game(saving, and exploration).
OuroborosChoked said:
Five hours? You sir are dead wrong, I am only TWO hours into this game and I can tell you that everything you have mentioned is correct. I was literally smashing my head into my couch wishing that the game would let me go five minutes without doing something to wrestle the awful controls out of my hands.
So far as I've gotten, the game literally has more time spent in cut scenes and dialogue than it does in actual game play. I'm surprised Yahtzee didn't spend more time on this.
Before I say ANYTHING else: Oh my gods, Yahtzee is totally right, I never realized that, despite the cloud layer, I could see the sun while on the surface. Damn, how did they miss that? How did I miss that?
Moving on...
You know what, this is really just me rambling off cause I was kinda hoping Yahtzee would have liked SS more. He's totally right about a lot of the flaws. But well, I liked Fi a lot and loved the way she spoke. I also felt it was about friggin time we got some robots or ruined civilizations in Zelda that actually did something.
The only real issue I had with Yahtzee's review besides my liking Fi would probably have been the whole "oh it's such a small game cause there's only three areas" whine like I've seen a lot of people say. I personally enjoyed that. The areas themselves had the scope of being far larger than the average areas in a Zelda game. Just look around in the Lanayru Desert and see how far it stretches on, that whole area gave off a wonderfully depressing air.
I also like the notion of reoccuring bosses, provided they're not the same. fucking. fight. every. gods. damned. time... like in Metroid Prime: Hunters or Other M's "fuck-you beetle". At least the Imprisoned was an interesting looking creature and they did attempt to mix things up. Loved the stuff with Groose.
I'm leaving that stuff in the spoiler tag as a sort of beta I was about to post but changed my mind cause I felt like I was just ranting cause I liked the way Zelda was handled in this game as opposed to other games.
The other thing I would say is I got upset by the lack of voice acting. Various scenes would have sounded a lot better, and I think Fi's dialogue would have been nice. She always reminded me of GLaDOS for some reason. Also, gods, auto-moving text (that is you don't click A) just would piss me off cause I'd end up missing something that was said. If they'd voiced those things, I wouldn't have had to deal with the dialogue and could have enjoyed the scene. :/
Oh, and yeah, Fi constantly going on about EVERYTHING was kind of annoying, and I think that was - as someone once said elsewhere - something to do with the fact that this is being targeted at non-Zelda players. I heard this is why we have that fucking "hey, you picked up a treasure" every time we turn the game on. Gods are those annoying.
Anyways, I can understand why people might not think it's the best Zelda game, but for me it's the best of the 3-D ones for a number of reasons. Mainly Zelda, the art style, the personality of the characters who actually did anything, and the combat when it wasn't fucking you over with blocking enemies.
I definitely agree with Yahtzee on that. Gods.. it got to the point where I'd just run up and flail at Bokoblins cause there was no other viable strategy. "Don't telegraph your attacks" sounds good on paper, but because of how the Wiimote works, that's pretty damned impossible. And there are plenty of times where, as Yahtzee said.. "you swing the wiimote and the game hasn't caught up yet." I got nailed so many times by Lizalfos or Stalmasters cause of that crap. :/
EDIT: Oh yeah, even people who thought it wasn't great.. you gotta admit it was better than Spirit Tracks. At least SS had a plot and cutscenes occasionally. Certainly some REASON to go to the next area, instead of going simply cause a new place opened up. I really had hoped ST would be better...
Moving on...
This is going to be odd for me. But hear me out. I've never been a fan of Ocarina of Time. I enjoyed it to an extent, but I never got on that boat of going "OMG this is the best game ever, nothing will ever come as close to being the perfect game because this IS the perfect game." In fact, I often want to punch people for saying this, cause gods did Ocarina of Time have flaws. By the way, so did FFVII, and I hate that game, too. *would put up a defence, but has repeated the reasons so many times, it gets old*
Anyways, my favourite games have always been the 2-D ones cause they, at least for me, always seem to have the tightest controls, reliable graphics, and they almost NEVER put in gods-damned minigames for pieces of heart. That last part is very important, cause I really hate Minigames in my adventure/action/rpg/whatever games.
But the thing is, what makes me enjoy the 3-D ones is usually a number of things. This has always coloured my opinions of most video games, but Zelda in particular cause there have been so many of them. I'm basically about to say why I thought Skyward Sword actually was good, even though I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but do please hear me out.
Personality: As Yahtzee stated, Tetra in Wind Waker had a LOT of personality and was a very likeable and believable character who actually did stuff. And then she turned into Zelda and wow, where'd she go? However, she DID attempt to play an active role during the Ganondorf fights. I appreciated that.
Where I'm going with this is that I felt SS's Zelda had even more personality than Tetra and is literally now my favourite of the Zelda incarnations (the other, obviously, being Tetra). Normally Zelda is very wooden or comes off as depressing, and I always found that annoying for being the titular character. I was VERY hopeful when I started playing that Zelda would actually be a prominent character, and the way she giggled at Link or got angry at Groose or worried about her bird.. those things were very endearing to me and made me like the character instantly. It didn't hurt that she was probably the cutest of the Zelda incarnations, at least in my opinion. I was rather upset that she ended up getting whisked off into hiding-from-the-story-land, but I did like the notion we were initially chasing after her and slowly catching up during the first three temples. Of course, when we DID catch her, she vanished into time and well.. yeah. That pissed me off, too. I wanted her to come back to the academy and become an actual character again.
I've also ALWAYS wanted to see Link and Zelda get together, cause gods I'm a hopeless romantic and it's about fucking time the guy gets the girl. This was the ending I'd wanted to see the TV show back in the 80's. We never really see if Link gets the girl in most games. What happened between him and Tetra? That seemed like a sure thing (and Phantom Hourglass suggests they were still together after WW). I also can't recall if his girlfriend in TP even shows up again after you rescue her. Hell, it would've been nice to see Link and Midna share a moment, instead of just a long speech.
Anyways, my favourite games have always been the 2-D ones cause they, at least for me, always seem to have the tightest controls, reliable graphics, and they almost NEVER put in gods-damned minigames for pieces of heart. That last part is very important, cause I really hate Minigames in my adventure/action/rpg/whatever games.
But the thing is, what makes me enjoy the 3-D ones is usually a number of things. This has always coloured my opinions of most video games, but Zelda in particular cause there have been so many of them. I'm basically about to say why I thought Skyward Sword actually was good, even though I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but do please hear me out.
Personality: As Yahtzee stated, Tetra in Wind Waker had a LOT of personality and was a very likeable and believable character who actually did stuff. And then she turned into Zelda and wow, where'd she go? However, she DID attempt to play an active role during the Ganondorf fights. I appreciated that.
Where I'm going with this is that I felt SS's Zelda had even more personality than Tetra and is literally now my favourite of the Zelda incarnations (the other, obviously, being Tetra). Normally Zelda is very wooden or comes off as depressing, and I always found that annoying for being the titular character. I was VERY hopeful when I started playing that Zelda would actually be a prominent character, and the way she giggled at Link or got angry at Groose or worried about her bird.. those things were very endearing to me and made me like the character instantly. It didn't hurt that she was probably the cutest of the Zelda incarnations, at least in my opinion. I was rather upset that she ended up getting whisked off into hiding-from-the-story-land, but I did like the notion we were initially chasing after her and slowly catching up during the first three temples. Of course, when we DID catch her, she vanished into time and well.. yeah. That pissed me off, too. I wanted her to come back to the academy and become an actual character again.
I've also ALWAYS wanted to see Link and Zelda get together, cause gods I'm a hopeless romantic and it's about fucking time the guy gets the girl. This was the ending I'd wanted to see the TV show back in the 80's. We never really see if Link gets the girl in most games. What happened between him and Tetra? That seemed like a sure thing (and Phantom Hourglass suggests they were still together after WW). I also can't recall if his girlfriend in TP even shows up again after you rescue her. Hell, it would've been nice to see Link and Midna share a moment, instead of just a long speech.
You know what, this is really just me rambling off cause I was kinda hoping Yahtzee would have liked SS more. He's totally right about a lot of the flaws. But well, I liked Fi a lot and loved the way she spoke. I also felt it was about friggin time we got some robots or ruined civilizations in Zelda that actually did something.
The only real issue I had with Yahtzee's review besides my liking Fi would probably have been the whole "oh it's such a small game cause there's only three areas" whine like I've seen a lot of people say. I personally enjoyed that. The areas themselves had the scope of being far larger than the average areas in a Zelda game. Just look around in the Lanayru Desert and see how far it stretches on, that whole area gave off a wonderfully depressing air.
I also like the notion of reoccuring bosses, provided they're not the same. fucking. fight. every. gods. damned. time... like in Metroid Prime: Hunters or Other M's "fuck-you beetle". At least the Imprisoned was an interesting looking creature and they did attempt to mix things up. Loved the stuff with Groose.
I'm leaving that stuff in the spoiler tag as a sort of beta I was about to post but changed my mind cause I felt like I was just ranting cause I liked the way Zelda was handled in this game as opposed to other games.
The other thing I would say is I got upset by the lack of voice acting. Various scenes would have sounded a lot better, and I think Fi's dialogue would have been nice. She always reminded me of GLaDOS for some reason. Also, gods, auto-moving text (that is you don't click A) just would piss me off cause I'd end up missing something that was said. If they'd voiced those things, I wouldn't have had to deal with the dialogue and could have enjoyed the scene. :/
Oh, and yeah, Fi constantly going on about EVERYTHING was kind of annoying, and I think that was - as someone once said elsewhere - something to do with the fact that this is being targeted at non-Zelda players. I heard this is why we have that fucking "hey, you picked up a treasure" every time we turn the game on. Gods are those annoying.
Anyways, I can understand why people might not think it's the best Zelda game, but for me it's the best of the 3-D ones for a number of reasons. Mainly Zelda, the art style, the personality of the characters who actually did anything, and the combat when it wasn't fucking you over with blocking enemies.
I definitely agree with Yahtzee on that. Gods.. it got to the point where I'd just run up and flail at Bokoblins cause there was no other viable strategy. "Don't telegraph your attacks" sounds good on paper, but because of how the Wiimote works, that's pretty damned impossible. And there are plenty of times where, as Yahtzee said.. "you swing the wiimote and the game hasn't caught up yet." I got nailed so many times by Lizalfos or Stalmasters cause of that crap. :/
EDIT: Oh yeah, even people who thought it wasn't great.. you gotta admit it was better than Spirit Tracks. At least SS had a plot and cutscenes occasionally. Certainly some REASON to go to the next area, instead of going simply cause a new place opened up. I really had hoped ST would be better...
It's funny how sarcastic reviews and be spot on sometimes, worst and most boring Zelda game ever takes about 4h to get into it and even after that it isn't very good.
Is it odd that I agreed with most of the points yet still enjoyed the game? It was mostly the dungeons I liked though, and I enjoyed the combat and puzzles as usual. I'm still a bit miffed that nobody mentions dowsing which is stupid. There's no use in a guide when the game is a linear as a metre stick. Thanks Fi, but I can find my own way to the dungeon. And yes, I do realise that I sound like I'm trying to copy Yahtzee. I'm not. Shut up.
This version of Zelda was my personal favorite, because it was the only one I could get all the way through without begging to have my brain lobotomized just to make something happen. All of the other ones are unbelievably boring to me!!! In fact, I end up killing myself with the bombs just to break the monotony. It's the gameplay that gets to me, and also the story wasn't very good in anything before Twilight Princess. The gameplay was always slow before this! Skyward Sword had more enemies to fight and you can RUN!!! Thank you!!! This game didn't even seem like a Zelda game to me!
Then again, that's also the main problem with the game. I will admit that this IS the worst Legend of Zelda game. (not including CD-i) There were only 3 places that they tried to keep fresh by adding new areas within them, but this just comes across as desperate, and the bosses are on occasion copies of one another. On top of all of that, the enemies ARE copies of each other. There is almost no variation between them.
I had said before this game came out that it didn't seem like a Zelda title, and when I got to play it, I was right. It wasn't really a Zelda game. I'm definitely not a Zelda fan, and it shows, but I had a lot of fun playing this game, even with it's flaws making it one of the worst Zelda games.
Then again, that's also the main problem with the game. I will admit that this IS the worst Legend of Zelda game. (not including CD-i) There were only 3 places that they tried to keep fresh by adding new areas within them, but this just comes across as desperate, and the bosses are on occasion copies of one another. On top of all of that, the enemies ARE copies of each other. There is almost no variation between them.
I had said before this game came out that it didn't seem like a Zelda title, and when I got to play it, I was right. It wasn't really a Zelda game. I'm definitely not a Zelda fan, and it shows, but I had a lot of fun playing this game, even with it's flaws making it one of the worst Zelda games.
Actually, I have to dub this one of my favorite Zelda games.
Mainly because I thought the controls were done alright, I loved that the enemies were actually puzzles in themselves, the obnoxious support character isn't that obnoxious, and the dungeons are my personal favorite in the series. The only real complaint I have with this one is that the overworld is a bit shite, but everything else I have very little problem with.
Mainly because I thought the controls were done alright, I loved that the enemies were actually puzzles in themselves, the obnoxious support character isn't that obnoxious, and the dungeons are my personal favorite in the series. The only real complaint I have with this one is that the overworld is a bit shite, but everything else I have very little problem with.