Zero Punctuation: Thief - Stealing a Classic
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Well, I knew what I was getting into watching this. Despite a few points, I'm having fun in Thief. I think the sound, spinning guards and repetitetitetitetitive conversations are just in need of a patch. Some things could be improved, and I know I am apologising for the game. Still, I'd like to see DLC or a sequel come along with the complaints addressed. It worked for the idea of XP, so you never know, it might happen again.
No, it's not Thief: The Metal Age, the best of the lot, I am aware. But as I said, I'm having fun.
No, it's not Thief: The Metal Age, the best of the lot, I am aware. But as I said, I'm having fun.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
YES YAHTZEE! AVENGE OUR DISAPPOINTMENT!
Goddamn reboots.... how dare they spoil the Thief series...
YES YAHTZEE! AVENGE OUR DISAPPOINTMENT!
Goddamn reboots.... how dare they spoil the Thief series...
The game is bad and you want to PAY MORE TO FIX IT?Grey_Area said:
No wonder they get away with it.
It is a sad state of affairs, this one thinks. Khajiit might like Skyrim, but the venerable Thief should be better at its job.Tanis said:
*Swipes another table of cutlery into the sack*
At least they did not have swarms of Mudcrabs around every corner.
Erm... and?TomWiley said:
Doesn't he talk about all of those things you mentioned in some detail (including the poor sound design) and what difference they made to his enjoyment of the game?
More to the point, do you have any basis whatsoever for agreeing or disagreeing with either of these two critics? Have you even played the game? 'Cause that might be, y'know, kind of an important thing to mention.
Look, if you don't agree with Total Biscuit then that might make his opinion irrelevant to YOU. (I don't agree with Yahtzee often either, although I still find his videos entertaining and occasionally informative.) I fail to see how that makes them irrelevant to anybody else.
And considering what he said in another video, I don't have to wait until I have a PS4 before I get my copy: I just have to wait another 4 to 8 weeks for the price of the PS3 version to hit $20 and I'm good to go with my share of the gruel! I think TB gave this game the most glowing review and while I'm interested, I still haven't played Dishonored yet so I guess I know which direction to throw my money in for the time being.
Honestly if that's Jim's takeaway from the "Bioshock Infinite" debacle then he's completely missed the damn point.MeisterKleister said:
I don't expect him to be UNBIASED. I do, however, expect him to give a fair and frank review of the game, such that it helps me make an informed purchasing decision. That's half of a reviewer's job (the other half is delivering constructive feedback to the game's creators so that they can improve the job that they do in future).
He might say he loved the game despite its flaws. That is fine. I will happily admit that I love, say, "Skyrim" despite its flaws - which are numerous and occasionally near-game-breaking.
He might say that some people will not be bothered by the flaws. He might go into some detail about WHICH people are likely to appreciate the game, based on its characteristics. All of this is also fine. I would recommend "Skyrim" to fans of open-world games and exploration, but not people who like in-depth character-driven storylines in their games.
He might say "If you like X, Y and Z then this game is perfect for you; but if you don't like A, B or C then give it a miss." Provided that this is reasonably accurate, that's what I'd expect from a game review aimed at helping a consumer make an informed choice.
Buying into "hype", however, is NOT fine. Ignoring objective flaws of the game (and if somebody says "but all flaws are subjective!" then I'll end up starring in one of those youtube videos of people who break their monitors over their heads) is NOT fine.
A professional games reviewer gets PAID to do a job, and do it properly. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more from the professional than the random guy on t'Interwebs.
And by the way, I'd apply almost none of what I've just said to "Zero Punctuation", which I regard as an entertainment show about videogames more than a serious critical look at them. Not that there isn't serious criticism involved, but you watch and episode of "Zero Punctuation" primarily for the humour and for Yahtzee's personality, not for an in-depth critical look at the games he's reviewing.
What you expect from a "review" does obviously depend on the medium and the intention of the critic.
What you expect from a "review" does obviously depend on the medium and the intention of the critic.
What are you talking about? That article came out long before Bioshock Infinite. And it's a response to the Final Fantasy XIII review backlash and the fallacy of what a review is "supposed to be" and what a reviewer is "supposed to do".TheMadDoctorsCat said:
Anyway, you're going off-topic here. I was addressing mavrik's point of expecting "unbiased reviews".
Ah, apologies. I thought Jim's thing was a result of the "Infinite" thing. Didn't even realise that there was a backlash about FF13.MeisterKleister said:
I agree with Mavrik though, although I get your point too. Mine is that it's impossible to expect a completely "objective" review. It's not impossible for the reviewer to state what he thinks OTHER people would like or dislike about a game. If a reviewer is paid to give good buying advice to consumers (and again, that to me is half of a reviewer's job, the other half being providing honest criticism to the people who make the games) then that to me would be a reasonable thing to expect. There are games (and movies, and books) that I absolutely adore, but I completely get why other people don't like them as much. I wouldn't recommend the original "Total Recall" to my mum!
It's funny we get this mass of bile just a day after Shamus Young's "it weren't that bad" article. Of the two die-hard Thief fans posting about the controversial reboot, I wonder which opinion is in the minority.
It's a shame, since as cool as the original Thief games are, they really haven't aged well. What was great about Deus Ex: Human Revolution is that it took the best aspects of the original Deus Ex and the streamlined modern game design without compromising too much. With Thief, it looks like for now we have a choice between the classic game with horrible graphics and a dated user interface versus the spick and span streamlined modern game with none of the depth or charm.
It's a shame, since as cool as the original Thief games are, they really haven't aged well. What was great about Deus Ex: Human Revolution is that it took the best aspects of the original Deus Ex and the streamlined modern game design without compromising too much. With Thief, it looks like for now we have a choice between the classic game with horrible graphics and a dated user interface versus the spick and span streamlined modern game with none of the depth or charm.
If the game was called 'Pilferer' and the protagonist 'Gurret', you might have a point; but if the game sells itself on the basis of nostalgia for a series remembered for a combination of humour, exploration and unconventional design, then it's entirely fair to critique it for not offering that by comparing it to the original.mavrik said:
Dear god that was a travesty. It's even worse than I imagined.Under_your_bed said:
It's not "impossible" to expect that, it's just dumb, because it goes directly against part of what makes any game review interesting.TheMadDoctorsCat said:
A reviewer's job is make a review according to his employer's demands. That's it. "Review" is a broad term. It's not his/her job to write a review according to your expectations. I consider a good reviewer someone who shares his honest opinion and justifies it with reasons.
And I think Yahtzee and Jim both do that.
Speak for yourself, of course. I personally find that he makes a lot more critical analysis than most other 'reviews'. The humour is just the icing on the cake.TheMadDoctorsCat said:
I absolutely loved this review Yahtzee, reminded me of your earlier reviews where you used to swear more and we could literally taste the anger, cynicism and/or sarcasm dripping off your words all mixed-in with side-splitting wit and humor 
See, it's no fun when a shitty game that nobody cares about turns out to be shit - but when a game that has the NERVE to call itself "Thief" makes such a huge mess of itself, that's when things get really fun! And depressing
See, it's no fun when a shitty game that nobody cares about turns out to be shit - but when a game that has the NERVE to call itself "Thief" makes such a huge mess of itself, that's when things get really fun! And depressing
I agree. If they wanted us to judge the game on its own merit, they shouldn't have used the name and identity of another, much better game, to sell 'Thief 2014' to us.randomthefox said:Everyone saying this game needs to be "judged on its own merits" and not compared to the previous (inarguably superior) games in the franchise needs to watch this
http://youtu.be/8y9hNKe93u0?t=1h24m9s
Just replace "Silent Hill" with "Thief".
Also this, just for fun:
And level from Thief 2014 looks much worse than I've expected. Is the whole game like that or it is the most severe cause?
captcha says: flat foot
rather "shot foot", if you ask me