Zero Punctuation: Thief - Stealing a Classic

[mrdude2010]

It's a shame. I had high hopes for this game. I mean, even if they had copypasted thief II and given it a graphical upgrade it would have been fine with me (at least after it had its first steam sale).

 

[mrdude2010]

So that's what, 1.5 out of four for Eidos recent entries into beloved franchises to work? DE:HR seems to have hit the sweet spot, Tomb Raider worked pretty well...except for you know, there not being any decent tombs or free exploring in the game. Then there's Hitman:Absolution, which kind of languished in its corner and now Thief, being all over the place, not knowing what to do with its premise.

Please Eidos, stop it. Give it up. Make up new IPs, this strategy isn't really giving you high praise.

I'll give them 2.5. DE:HR gets 1 and Tomb Raider and Hitman: Absolution get a combined 1.5. I actually had a fun time with Hitman Absolution. It wasn't nearly as good as Blood Money, but it was still a perfectly competent mostly Hitman game.

 

[mrdude2010]

I feel like we'll be hearing about this for weeks to come. This will be for Yahtzee what Man of Steel is for Bob Chipman.

Sounds about right; thing is there's probably going to be someone saying we can't judge it by the previous games' merits because it's a reboot, but we all know that's a load of crap. If they didn't want to invite comparisons then they shouldn't have used the Thief name but instead made a new title. It's why I had to laugh whenever someone says "a reboot SHOULD be different" in order to justify clear bastardization of source material or "fuck yous" to the fans (such as the attempted DMC reboot or Lords of Shadow).

To be fair, a reboot should indeed be different, because putting a new perspective on things is the ONLY reason to pour millions into telling the same story twice. Did you know Scarface was a remake of a 1930s gangster film about Prohibition? If you're like everyone else I've ever asked this question, the answer is probably no. The remake made the wise decision to update the setting to 1980s Miami, both making the story more relevant to present audiences and drawing a parallel between the Drug War and Prohibition that adds a lot of political subtext. That being said, there is a difference between expanding a story through reinterpretation and just making a boiled-down caricature or a continuation in name only, which is what I think you're talking about.

I see what you're saying, but the thing is, that reboot remained true to the elements of the story that made it good in the first place. The best parts of Thief were the engaging dialogue, clear stealth focus, wide open levels designed to be explored in a non-linear way, and Garret's character. If you ruin all those things, you're not making a Thief game. Dishonored, if you had completely rewritten the story and dialogue trees, would have made a better reboot than this. Dishonored took the ideas of Thief's gameplay and expanded on them. This just tosses those ideas out and starts all over again, with only token character names to connect it to the previous entries.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Has anyone had the pleasure of unintentionally waiting at the beginning of the brothel level, only to hear a guard endlessly repeat the same line with about 2 seconds in between each repetition...to do with 'getting some freebie after his shift' sort of thing? It was funny in a depressingly brain-damaged to pure seediness, sort of way. Only for a short while though.
I thought it was over once i burnt him to a cinder and knocked out his friend. But ALAS...no! Only minutes later i heard the same line uttered from beyond walls as if his spirit was taunting me! Or there were secret legions of seedy clones all wanting their 'freebies' who lived amongst the cave walls.

I really wanted to like this game too. Wouldnt have wasted 40 gold on it otherwise. Ah taff it. Might try and complete xcomEU properly now

 

[SnakeoilSage]

Well, it sounds like everything that could have gone wrong ended up going wrooooooooong [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU].

At least we have Dishonored.

I think you meant to say "at least we have Thief 2 get it now on gog.com or Steam for a song." It even rhymes.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Is it my imagination or is the AAA industry getting exponentially worse?

Well let me put it like this, if this is your imagination then this must be one hell of a shared dream, my friend.

Don't you mean shared nightmare?

 

[Racecarlock]

Is it my imagination or is the AAA industry getting exponentially worse?

Well let me put it like this, if this is your imagination then this must be one hell of a shared dream, my friend.

Don't you mean shared nightmare?

Yes I do. In fact, I think we're in some badly written comic universe where all the bad guys are extremely incompetent as well as malicious but still somehow get power.

Oh fuck we're in the resident evil universe.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

Oh fuck we're in the resident evil universe.

Movie or video game universe? Both are stupid, but they're quite specific and well-defined levels of stupid.

From what I've seen of Thief, I don't think that it's necessarily as bad a game as some people think it is - it's certainly not Duke Nukem Forever levels of terrible - but the problem is that Thief has quite the legacy behind it, and unless you're going into Thief not having any prior experience with Thief (or hardcore stealth titles), it's gonna disappoint pretty hard. Given what's changed with this new Thief, this probably felt like a huge slap in the face to Yahtzee.

Seems like the review was rather cathartic for him, though. Lots of bite in this one.

 

[Shjade]

I have a recommendation for anyone thinking of buying this game: Play Dishonored again, you will have much more fun.

Considering I didn't even like Dishonored that much (mainly because it gives you zero indication of whether or not you're actually hiding when you're trying to do stealthy things, which is more than a little important), that's pretty discouraging.

 

[Mangod]

Wow. That whole removing of the witty charm, making the levels small, with horrible patrol routes and constant points of no return sound absolutely horri-

.....WHAT?!?!?!?!

THEY REPLACED "taffer" WITH "fuck"!?!??!!?

GGAAAAHHHH WHAT THE HELL REALLY?! THAT WAS SOMETHING SO INCREDIBLY ICONIC TO THE SERIES AND REQUIRED NO EFFORT TO CARRY OVER! WHY?! HOW DID THEY...*garble garble*

Man...I can't WAIT to see how badly Razorfist destroys this game. He's a massive fan of the series as well and has been consistently questioning the designers' decisions ever since details were first revealed. He is NOT going to be kind to it...

Believe me, he did not disappoint in that regard:


Given how much Razorfist clearly loved the original series, this is almost sad to watch.

 

[Squintsalot]

Only "critic" I've seen who actually enjoys this game is TotalBiscuit and his merits for liking a game, which effectively excludes story, characters, setting, sound-engineer and pretty much anything else that doesn't fit his narrow definition of gameplay, makes his opinion pretty much irrelevant.

I think you're one of the people this video was aimed at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpmeOB0Zyu0

TB is misconstruing the issue. This isn't a difference of opinion, the game is just bad, objectively speaking. A matter of opinion would be saying I don't like Arma 3 because I don't have the patience for military themed tactical shooters.

However, there is legit criticism to be leveled at Thief. There are glaring technical issues and design mistakes that making it AT BEST a bad game with some average moments. The Telegraph review of Thief pretty much sums up what those issues are.

TB had admitted to not having played the original series, and to sucking at and not enjoying stealth in general, so we are in the right to think that he just doesn't really know what he's talking about here. Also, bear in mind that it was a "first impressions" video, not an actual in depth review. That being said, he is well within his rights to like whatever he wants, but that doesn't make it a good game. People can and do enjoy shit.

And lastly, this game cannot and should not be judged solely on its own merits because it was no created on its own merits. The game is using the Thief name and legacy to sell copies.

 

[Bindal]

Only "critic" I've seen who actually enjoys this game is TotalBiscuit and his merits for liking a game, which effectively excludes story, characters, setting, sound-engineer and pretty much anything else that doesn't fit his narrow definition of gameplay, makes his opinion pretty much irrelevant.

Yes, how dare he judge the gameplay SOLELY on the mechanics, which make the gameplay, right?
Wait, isn't that exactly what "judging gameplay" is supposed to be?

 

[VoidWanderer]

I did find it interesting how little you actually steal. The most common item you steal is worth less than 10 gold. It made me wonder if I was stealing or scraping the bottom of the barrel. The more valuable pieces were things Garret would keep for himself.

The one thing that did really annoy me is the end movie, where Garret performs the second dumbest move since The Prince in that drossy Prince of Persia game with Elikka...

But I am interested to find out if they do go for a sequel, and I hope they do... I figure, like most other people with more brain cells than Eidos thinks we have, is that the protege becomes the new Veronica. That would get me interested in the game. Oh and stealing things people would actually value in the double digits would be nice so I can buy NON-COMBAT UPGRADES. This is not a game where you should fight, STOP GIVING ME UPGRADES FOR MY DAMN BLACKJACK AND BOW AND QUIVER AND ARMOUR THAT DOESN'T IMPROVE MY STEALTHINESS TAFFITALL!

 

[Under_your_bed]

I remember losing all hope for the game initially when I watched what I think is the defining moment of the game in a stream [Emphasis added] (yes I've played the game since then). There's a slide puzzle in a crawlspace behind the wall of a brothel and it became clear at about this point that the game has no acoustic simulation so sound goes straight through all walls (something the Unreal engine has by DEFAULT so there's no fucking telling why this game doesn't have it). Meanwhile two NPCs were fucking in an adjacent room during the whole puzzle, resulting in the slide puzzle _itself_ sounding like it was yelling "OH GOD, OH GOD, PUSH IT PUSH IT HARDER, GIVE IT ALL YOU GOT GIVE IT ALL YOU GOT". After thirty minutes of laughing at the scene that was unfolding before us, we resigned to further have our childhood memories shat upon and continued the buggy linear mess until the ending.

Oh, were you there for that stream as well? Man, good times. That was totally worth staying up until 3 A.M. for.

Do you remember?

Spoiler

Cockrings
EH EH EH EH EH EH EH EH
Pinch my nipples! Harder!
"I'VE BEEN A GHOST ALL ALONG!"

Fun times...

Has anyone had the pleasure of unintentionally waiting at the beginning of the brothel level, only to hear a guard endlessly repeat the same line with about 2 seconds in between each repetition...to do with 'getting some freebie after his shift' sort of thing? It was funny in a depressingly brain-damaged to pure seediness, sort of way. Only for a short while though.

I think it was "maybe I'll get lucky after my shift". My god, he said that endlessly.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Is it my imagination or is the AAA industry getting exponentially worse?

Well let me put it like this, if this is your imagination then this must be one hell of a shared dream, my friend.

Don't you mean shared nightmare?

Yes I do. In fact, I think we're in some badly written comic universe where all the bad guys are extremely incompetent as well as malicious but still somehow get power.

Oh fuck we're in the resident evil universe.

Except instead of zombies and other bio-weapons, they hit us with a plague of bad video games.

EDIT: ...unless you count the mindless idiots who blindly defend their shity business practices and other bullshit as "zombies."

 

[Nazulu]

Haha, I saw this coming since it was announced. Great stab Yahtzee. I've watched many video's on it to guess what you would bring up, and I could easily tell the character would be the center complaint.

Was anyone else caught off guard when seeing the female character tied to a giant dick?

 

[Racecarlock]

Oh fuck we're in the resident evil universe.

Movie or video game universe? Both are stupid, but they're quite specific and well-defined levels of stupid.

From what I've seen of Thief, I don't think that it's necessarily as bad a game as some people think it is - it's certainly not Duke Nukem Forever levels of terrible - but the problem is that Thief has quite the legacy behind it, and unless you're going into Thief not having any prior experience with Thief (or hardcore stealth titles), it's gonna disappoint pretty hard. Given what's changed with this new Thief, this probably felt like a huge slap in the face to Yahtzee.

Seems like the review was rather cathartic for him, though. Lots of bite in this one.

Which one has a higher population of retarded, profit driven executives? That's probably the one we're in.

 

[Duncan Van Ooyen]

Is it just me, or was this episode much less 'witty' than they usually are...?

He sounded genuinely upset about this game, which is more unusual than you'd think. Usually he playfully picks apart a game, either because it's bad and it's fun to do so, or so stuff it in the faces of everyone who thought it was good. But this was an installment to a series that he really liked, and it sounds like it's really let him down, so I can understand his frustration.

 

[VondeVon]

I dunno. Garrett was pretty hot. If I could have zoomed out to leer at him, I'd have bought the game. (Actually I really did like the hand animations for switches, sliding through spaces and lock picking. Someone somewhere got that bit properly sorted.)

I'm surprised Yahtzee didn't mention the massive problem with de-synchronized subtitles.

 

[Schadrach]

Anyhow, I hear the Legacy of Kain series may be rebooted with Nosgoth. Can't wait for the bile from Yahtzee there.

...is there an active campaign to destroy things I love, or is it entirely coincidental?

Really guys -- all you need to do to LoK is release one more sequel that ties all the loose ends up nice and tight.

If you want to get frisky, then you can do "HD Remasters" wherein you leave the goddamned game play and level design alone, except to up the poly count, rendering resolution, and texture resolution.

That's it. Nothing more. It's really not that hard.