Zero Punctuation: Transistor - Like Bastion But...

Jul 31, 2013
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Yahtzee, I understand that humor comes first in your videos and fact checking after but please consider that I (and maybe some other people) may take great offence to some of your more...tasteless jokes.

Yes, I know that my mum has a dry vagina. I'm sorry about it, ok. I've tried buying her some lube or at least get her to see a gynaecologist but you know better than me that she's a stubborn old lady. Oh, and stop spreading malicious lies and slander concerning my dad's sex life! I mean, he couldn't have been possibly shagging you AND the plumber at the same time, now could he?
 

ToastyMozart

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Mar 13, 2012
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1337mokro said:
Ipsen said:
I do feel that since it's combat system was gradually upgraded through levels, you didn't solidly learn how all of the distinct slot types worked together until later in the game(Particularly the passive slot).
Ha, you quoted me before I actually corrected my poor sentence structure.

However I agree about the combat, to some people it would be very confusing and a bit to slow on the burner before it's fully utilized. However I picked it up fairly quickly and didn't have much trouble utilizing it. I did quickly fall back on the dominant strategy of maximum mobility because that's simply how I enjoyed playing. Maybe because of that the combat system seemed much easier to grasp to me because maximum mobility can be achieved with the first 5 powers you learn.

The critique about how the story was told just confused me. This in essence is the perfect story that most critics on this site have been screaming about for the past few years. Story and gameplay mixing together. Show Don't Tell. You learn more about the story by playing the game, interacting with objects and by unlocking powers you also gain more backstory about the city.

You are literally told nothing at the start except 3 things. "City under attack. Guy possibly close to you is now a sword and your voice is gone. Someone is behind this." and only by playing the game do you figure things out. This is perfect In Medias Res. You are given a clear goal at the start but almost no information and you are left to puzzle things back together.

Maybe the critics on this site are just a bunch of pretentious wannabees that when presented with the thing they always clamour for because it sounds smart are unable to grasp it because it flies way over their heads.
It's almost getting as bad as Arin Hanson' complaining about obtuse tutorials, and then proceeding to claim games that don't to that have bad game design because he's too thick and inattentive to figure anything out without the game dragging him by the nose.

I know "you just don't get it" isn't a particularly productive criticism of a criticism, but when the whole point is that you learn the story through it's mechanics, don't ***** when it doesn't spell everything out for you. (That's like if Salvador Dalí explained what his paintings were about, or if Baccano gave you a series timeline in episode 1).
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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TaboriHK said:
Yeah, that's annoying. I feel like it should be discouraged.
I suspect you haven't been discouraging it before now, and I suspect you won't be discouraging it in the future.

Even framing it in those words feels manipulative. Should be adjusted to "the feelings of people aren't as important" and just end the sentence there. Because feelings are nice, but not very important. The ability to express one's self and freedoms, mega-important. Your feelings, on the other hand are kind of like your garden. You get to tend to them because they only really feed you.
You used your own feelings to weigh the merit as to whether or not a statement on feelings was accurate, and then posted in agreement that feelings are not important.

But in that case, why would I give a second thought to your feelings? This seems like a very "do as I say, not as I do" scenario you've constructed.
 

Blithering_div

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Mar 25, 2013
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1337mokro said:
Blithering_div said:
1337mokro said:
The critique about how the story was told just confused me. This in essence is the perfect story that most critics on this site have been screaming about for the past few years.
Stories have characterization in them. Something this game severely lacks in the first hour of the game.
NOPE!

The mouse said to the fox. "Would you like some cheese?" The fox said no and ate the mouse.

The only characterization going on is that the mouse might be mentally unhinged by not fearing the fox and that the fox is a fox. Yet it is a story.
A poorly done story with characters I don't care about due to no previous characterization.

The characterization is done throughout the entire game. The little terminal messages where you type a mass panic message, then back pedal and write something less panic inducing. Little bits of characterization wherever you look.
There is little characterization done in the first hour. So little that there really isn't much reason to care about Red. Bastion does roughly the same but it at least has a short term goal to work towards as the story unravels and gives a reason to care about the characters in the game. Transistor drops you in and expects the mystery to be enough.

For me, it isn't. Nor is locking bits of the story to in game abilities that I have to swap around in a combat system that uses health but doesn't have health drops.
 

1337mokro

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Dec 24, 2008
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Blithering_div said:
1337mokro said:
Blithering_div said:
1337mokro said:
The critique about how the story was told just confused me. This in essence is the perfect story that most critics on this site have been screaming about for the past few years.
Stories have characterization in them. Something this game severely lacks in the first hour of the game.
NOPE!

The mouse said to the fox. "Would you like some cheese?" The fox said no and ate the mouse.

The only characterization going on is that the mouse might be mentally unhinged by not fearing the fox and that the fox is a fox. Yet it is a story.
A poorly done story with characters I don't care about due to no previous characterization.

The characterization is done throughout the entire game. The little terminal messages where you type a mass panic message, then back pedal and write something less panic inducing. Little bits of characterization wherever you look.
There is little characterization done in the first hour. So little that there really isn't much reason to care about Red. Bastion does roughly the same but it at least has a short term goal to work towards as the story unravels and gives a reason to care about the characters in the game. Transistor drops you in and expects the mystery to be enough.

For me, it isn't. Nor is locking bits of the story to in game abilities that I have to swap around in a combat system that uses health but doesn't have health drops.
Sure let me sum up what you just said.

Bastion was better. It gave you a goal.

Transistor is not better. It gave you a goal.

What is the difference between get to Citadel and Get to nightclub? There is none. The thing is you like what the reviewer said. You don't like what I said.

It's the same with Bioshock Infinite. I said it was a borefest that uses the multiple dimensions excuse as a crutch to make anything happen in the story plotholes and story consistency be damned. You literally wander around aimlessly without a goal for several hours and never actually resolve one of the problems put to you.

But what was people's response to it?

You just don't get it! No it totally didn't have plotholes! It was explained by this one line of dialogue that is totally not sloppy writing but intended as an ambiguous hint!

So now I'm just on the other side of this. I say there's characterization throughout the game with a clear goal right from the start. You say no.

So let's leave it at that because we literally are engaging in the most futile thing on earth. Trying to change opinions.
 

TaboriHK

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Sep 15, 2008
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Zachary Amaranth said:
I suspect you haven't been discouraging it before now, and I suspect you won't be discouraging it in the future.
It's your prerogative to speculate how you like.

You used your own feelings to weigh the merit as to whether or not a statement on feelings was accurate, and then posted in agreement that feelings are not important.

But in that case, why would I give a second thought to your feelings? This seems like a very "do as I say, not as I do" scenario you've constructed.
My feelings are important to me because they're mine. I don't expect anyone else to care about my feelings unless they choose to. That's how it works, and that's what I said.
 

Blithering_div

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Mar 25, 2013
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1337mokro said:
Blithering_div said:
1337mokro said:
Blithering_div said:
1337mokro said:
The critique about how the story was told just confused me. This in essence is the perfect story that most critics on this site have been screaming about for the past few years.
Stories have characterization in them. Something this game severely lacks in the first hour of the game.
NOPE!

The mouse said to the fox. "Would you like some cheese?" The fox said no and ate the mouse.

The only characterization going on is that the mouse might be mentally unhinged by not fearing the fox and that the fox is a fox. Yet it is a story.
A poorly done story with characters I don't care about due to no previous characterization.

The characterization is done throughout the entire game. The little terminal messages where you type a mass panic message, then back pedal and write something less panic inducing. Little bits of characterization wherever you look.
There is little characterization done in the first hour. So little that there really isn't much reason to care about Red. Bastion does roughly the same but it at least has a short term goal to work towards as the story unravels and gives a reason to care about the characters in the game. Transistor drops you in and expects the mystery to be enough.

For me, it isn't. Nor is locking bits of the story to in game abilities that I have to swap around in a combat system that uses health but doesn't have health drops.
Sure let me sum up what you just said.

Bastion was better. It gave you a goal.

Transistor is not better. It gave you a goal.

What is the difference between get to Citadel and Get to nightclub? There is none. The thing is you like what the reviewer said. You don't like what I said.

It's the same with Bioshock Infinite. I said it was a borefest that uses the multiple dimensions excuse as a crutch to make anything happen in the story plotholes and story consistency be damned. You literally wander around aimlessly without a goal for several hours and never actually resolve one of the problems put to you.

But what was people's response to it?

You just don't get it! No it totally didn't have plotholes! It was explained by this one line of dialogue that is totally not sloppy writing but intended as an ambiguous hint!

So now I'm just on the other side of this. I say there's characterization throughout the game with a clear goal right from the start. You say no.

So let's leave it at that because we literally are engaging in the most futile thing on earth. Trying to change opinions.
Never played Bioshock Infinite so I can't comment on it.

I've had these sentiments well before the review and found yahtzee to be too tame to the game. The nightclub being a goal is laughable. Rebuilding the bastion takes a lot longer than reaching the stage and actually serves a purpose. Whereas the stage causes a boss fight which literally could not have been there and it would have the same effect. Then you move on to more city never to return. The nightclub could have been entirely left out and not much would have changed.

Let me sum up what I'm getting at because the above wasn't even close. There is nothing to hook onto for me in the first hour. You appear to be saying there is. Please, spell it out for me. What should hook me into it?