Zero Punctuation: Webcomics

[Tempdude0]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. People still take Yahtzee seriously? I stopped after the brawl review, button mashing to win? Yeah right. Anyway that's not my point. I still can't believe YOU take your reviews seriously, I mean you're funny, but your reviews just suck. CAD was serious long before the miscarriage thing, you've just hopped on the bandwagon, you've most likely never read any of the strips in the middle, just the first few then the last few, you ignorant douche. If any of you disagree with my statement with no reason given, you've got his balls so far down his throat you're shitting them out.

Yes, surprising as it is, you can beat tournament level players by mashing buttons. It happens, go figure. Just saying.

Aside from the "Zeke goes crazy" and "Fat chick, lol not really" arcs, which were surreal as hell, what are you talking about?

 

[Meatshield27]

Didn't Yahtzee start the bandwagon.. how can he hop onto what he started? I take Yahtzee seriously he hasn't given me any bad advice yet, god forbid you were to pay attention to the SSBB review you would realize that the same stuff you(probably) liked about SSB and SSBM he also enjoyed, except the whole fact that it is a party based game where only a pack of "that guy"s can really get anything done in short order. Yahtzee liked the spectacle, the concept of watching Mario beat the retard out of Peach while the fans screams for more blood, what more could you ask?

His final saying is about button mashing. No, Yahtzee didn't start the "CAD Miscarriage Hate" I think 4chan did(Is he a lurker there?).

P.S. I think after the brawl review he's gone downhill, maybe the hatemail got to him and since the CAD issue is so huge he's trying to appeal to the large side of the argument, which happens to be the people who hate web comics. I never thought he would whore himself out like that. I'm sorry it had to come to this.

 

[grapes]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. People still take Yahtzee seriously? I stopped after the brawl review, button mashing to win? Yeah right. Anyway that's not my point. I still can't believe YOU take your reviews seriously, I mean you're funny, but your reviews just suck. CAD was serious long before the miscarriage thing, you've just hopped on the bandwagon, you've most likely never read any of the strips in the middle, just the first few then the last few, you ignorant douche. If any of you disagree with my statement with no reason given, you've got his balls so far down his throat you're shitting them out.

CAD was also terrible long before the miscarriage storyline. I read a large portion of the archives in 2006, and only laughed once or twice. It's a horrible comic because Buckley has no idea how to tell a joke. He actually goes deeper into it on his website (the article's on the front page, the same post as the Turok review), and everything he says there is right on. It's been terrible since the beginning, it was terrible at wherever in 2004 I got to, and he describes it as having never changed, so I'm going to trust him on that.

The art also sucks.

 

[The Existentialist]

Its like this, one critic may say some author is a good author, and his book is written well, but another disagrees and says it was tasteless and done badly. You read the book, and find you enjoy it. Now obviously, since you and the second critic have a difference of opinion, the content which makes something good or worth reading is different for you.

I'm uncertain what to fully make of this. While subjective opinion definitely plays a part within deciding if you LIKE a work, you can still subjectively like a work that is pure garbage. There are objective ways that literature can be evaluated, and these can be applied to all forms of literature, including webcomics. That you feel something is good does not, in fact, mean it is good.

That being said, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with liking something that is objectively bad. Everyone one of us, whether we care to admit it or not, probably likes one thing that is pure and utter crap. The problem comes when we state that it isn't garbage, and continue to defend it despite the obvious contradiction. This is, unfortunately, unavoidable, since no one wants to openly say "yeah, I like this piece of shit and I'm not ashamed that I like it". This is especially true on the internet, since having the ability to be completely anonymous basically equates to a license to be a total asshole to those you disagree with, and disregard all ideas of being polite.

I guess what I'm trying to get at, though I'm being overly wordy, is that there shouldn't be any shame in liking something that's crap, but at the same time you have to admit to yourself that it's garbage, and that you aren't a lesser person for liking it. Hell, I like the game "Blue Dragon" simply because I have fun with it, despite knowing that it's terrible from a creative perspective.

/agree. I don't care what kind of prick he is, if his comic is good (which it is, not saying its the best, but its funny and fairly well done) I honestly don't give a shit what kind of person he is.

You know, I honestly have to know: what is it you like about his strip? Those who dislike it have (for the most part) gone in-depth as to why they dislike it and think it's bad, while those defending CAD have hardly done so. So what is it you like about it? I'm not being a dick; I'm honestly curious as to what it is that connects with some people.

CAD and Penny Arcade are what you get in the waiting room to Hell. How anyone can waste precious moments of their lives reading that dreck. These comics are on the level of Garfield or Family Circus. Not funny, not clever.

Thanks for giving evidence and reason to support your position, ass.

P.S. I think after the brawl review he's gone downhill, maybe the hatemail got to him and since the CAD issue is so huge he's trying to appeal to the large side of the argument, which happens to be the people who hate web comics. I never thought he would whore himself out like that. I'm sorry it had to come to this.

Or, you know, it could honestly be what he thinks.

 

[Jimmyjames]

I remain very relaxed WHENEVER I read a comic strip because I know that whatever it is will never, EVER be funnier than "Far Side" or "Calvin & Hobbes".

The only comic I've seen that comes close is one that has a similar non sequitur humor as "Far Side" called PBF comics. Brilliant stuff.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

No, Yahtzee didn't start the "CAD Miscarriage Hate" I think 4chan did(Is he a lurker there?).

I think it was SomethingAwful which I know Yahtzee goes there - since there was that thread of his where he showed the e-mail that supposedly peter molyneux sent him. The e-mail could be fake but the thread and account weren't.

Also, remember that success breeds more haters. People love and hate CAD, CAD becomes successful and the haters speak up.

 

[Kovash86]

Well I can't read minds, it's all in the eye's of the beholder and if they want to report me or something so be it, it was an honest mistake. I don't see much in those comics that will cause me to get a permaban or anything except the zelda one and hell, if Yahtzee can have it in his video then I didn't expect well drawn characters with less blood (not to mention coming out of her mouth and not her genitals, like in Yahtzee's vid.) shouldn't cause any harm.

Sorry to disturb you, I didn't think it would.

Like I said no big deal, it really isn't so much that I am disturbed it's that I think I should be, but I'm not entirely sure on that, maybe I'm trying to impose some kind of political correctness and the rest of me just isn't having any of it, I'm not sure.

Meatshield27: all fighting games fall prey to that flaw, the only real way to get around it is to do what I did about it way back in the SSB era, and that is play against button mashers until I figured out all of their lousy little tricks, but that turns me into "that guy" which I totally was.

Spoiler

to the point where even the greatest challenge the game could provide was as nothing before my astounding ability (I kid you not the hardest it could get back then was 3 level 10 computers and I would whip their asses every time, didn't matter the fighter I would win, I could even do it with 3 different characters, but that's really all I did after school was practice so I could beat my friends.), then again I live in Oklahoma there isn't much else to do out here other than work at one thing until you are the best at it, which in hindsight I probably should have used that time for something else but I really don't care.

Frankly speaking it doesn't matter who started saying CAD sucks, I can assure you it is not good writing and the art doesn't seem to have changed since day 1 which is disappointing considering how old it is.

 

[Sylocat]

*sigh* I usually like gag comics that:

A: Are funny.

and

B: Are funny in a way that takes actual talent to write.

What I mean is, there are some types of humor that take no talent whatsoever to write. One thing every hack comedy writer knows about pop-culture references is that if an audience recognizes the reference, they will laugh no matter how bad the joke is. So it's the refuge of talentless writers who want to get laughs (that, and bodily functions).

Warning: Tangent ahead:

It's not just webcomics, this is also why I can't stand Family Guy: The references are supposed to be funny just because they are references. They don't even try to make jokes out of them. And most parody-based gag shows and gag strips follow the exact same formula. They realize they don't have to have any actual wit, just toss in a bunch of references and the fans will be in stitches.

Another type of humor that takes no talent whatsoever to write is the "non sequetor" gag, one that is supposed to be funny because the punchline has absolutely nothing to do with the previous setup. This is another favorite trick of the Family Guy hack writers, but there is one webcomic I'd like to single out in this regard: Cyanide & Happiness. When reading Cyanide & Happiness, I occasionally chuckle at the randomness of it all, but I honestly believe that a four-year-old could write and draw C&H, and even the comic's most rabid fans wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Sorry to rant, and I know that everyone is entitled to like whatever they want, but I am angry, because I do not believe for one moment that the creators of this tripe think that what they are writing is GOOD.

 

[linkdestroyer]

1) Why does it matter how a comic book is drawn? I doubt anyone has read a comic or web comic strip and said "WOW that belongs in a museum!"

2) I don't agree with anything being labeled as shit. I don't ever remember there being a person or group that can declare a comic, book, movie, artwork, or video games, "Shit" or "Not-Shit". Everyone has there own personal opinion therefore any form of expression can be liked or disliked. A critic is just someone giving their opinion of a piece of expression. To argue that a majority finds something "shit" because one or more critics say it is "shit", makes you ignorant. If you continue to argue something is "shit" because such and such said so, then I would say "Show me proof." If you don't have any proof then you have no right to argue that the majority thinks something is "Shit".

3) As for the argument that CAD going in the wrong direction, I would agree. Why set up a comic with random humor and very little plot, just to take the comic in the opposite direction. I miss the comics where Ethan would get hit with random arrows or he would be dismembered by a random ninja. It reminds me of the random and crazy humor of Monty Python, and the Holy Grail.

4) As for Yahtzee, I have and alway will believe he is a good reviewer. While this recent "Review / Movie / Thing" is a little out of his element, it is still stating what he believes. Most reviewers now days give perfects for brand name video games and poor reviews for games that are a little out there. While I like halo 1-3 I would never agree that any of them deserve a 10/10 probably not even a 8/10. (I will alway hate the cliff hanger at the end of halo 2) I believe Yahtzee review based on what he thinks. Most of the time he gives and honest review even though it goes against what most reviewers and fanboys would call a perfect game just because it has the title Halo, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, and Metal Gear Solid. I will always disagree with something Yahtzee says because my individual opinion defines what I likes and what I dislike but I respect the Honesty that Yahtzee gives in his reviews when some reviewers are just grading a name.

 

[Kovash86]

1)Because comics are an art form, asking that is like asking why we don't still use 2-D game sprites.

2)The people who declare whether or not something is shit are called critics, that is what their company pays them to do, and people pay attention to this because the critic is generally hired for their good judgment although that is normally debatable.

4)I think this format of review is more tolerable than waiting through an entire episode for one lousy review and I really don't want to read all of that crap.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

1) Why does it matter how a comic book is drawn? I have doubt anyone have read a comic or web comic strip and said "WOW that belongs in a museum!"

Ever seen "Gone with the Blastwave"? If not I'd like to show it to you but the person's web domain is down for some fucking reason, and worst of all, it just happened, so it's probably temporary but still, the timing could not be worse. Still, for a webcomic it's very well drawn.

I've seen some other very well drawn things but the main reson Yahtzee brought that issue up is because a lot of comics try so hard to disguise it, while things like "Dinosaur Comics" just say "fuck it, I'm not about the art, I'm about the comedy..." - and of course, there is the whole "Buckley thinks he is da-vinci" and things like that but I've never read a blog or a diary or something of that nature that Buckley wrote, but apparently, he's a huge douchebag that doesn't respond well to criticism, but I don't know much about that. >_>

it also helps if you ever saw that "You CAD" thing on www.fullyramblomatic.com - makes the video look a lot less like just a blatant attack.

 

[Tempdude0]

*sigh* I usually like gag comics that:

A: Are funny.

and

B: Are funny in a way that takes actual talent to write.

What I mean is, there are some types of humor that take no talent whatsoever to write. One thing every hack comedy writer knows about pop-culture references is that if an audience recognizes the reference, they will laugh no matter how bad the joke is. So it's the refuge of talentless writers who want to get laughs (that, and bodily functions).

Warning: Tangent ahead:

It's not just webcomics, this is also why I can't stand Family Guy: The references are supposed to be funny just because they are references. They don't even try to make jokes out of them. And most parody-based gag shows and gag strips follow the exact same formula. They realize they don't have to have any actual wit, just toss in a bunch of references and the fans will be in stitches.

Another type of humor that takes no talent whatsoever to write is the "non sequetor" gag, one that is supposed to be funny because the punchline has absolutely nothing to do with the previous setup. This is another favorite trick of the Family Guy hack writers, but there is one webcomic I'd like to single out in this regard: Cyanide & Happiness. When reading Cyanide & Happiness, I occasionally chuckle at the randomness of it all, but I honestly believe that a four-year-old could write and draw C&H, and even the comic's most rabid fans wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Sorry to rant, and I know that everyone is entitled to like whatever they want, but I am angry, because I do not believe for one moment that the creators of this tripe think that what they are writing is GOOD.

I agree with most of that, but "non sequetor" can be well done. They've just become such an overused crutch I doubt anyone of talent will touch them with a ten foot, medical grade pole.

1) Why does it matter how a comic book is drawn? I doubt anyone has read a comic or web comic strip and said "WOW that belongs in a museum!"

2) I don't agree with anything being labeled as shit. I don't ever remember there being a person or group that can declare a comic, book, movie, artwork, or video games, "Shit" or "Not-Shit". Everyone has there own personal opinion therefore any form of expression can be liked or disliked. A critic is just someone giving their opinion of a piece of expression. To argue that a majority finds something "shit" because one or more critics say it is "shit", makes you ignorant. If you continue to argue something is "shit" because such and such said so, then I would say "Show me proof." If you don't have any proof then you have no right to argue that the majority thinks something is "Shit".

3) As for the argument that CAD going in the wrong direction, I would agree. Why set a comic when random humor and very little plot, just to take the comic in the opposite direction. I miss the comics where Ethan would get hit with random arrows or he would be dismembered by a random ninja. It reminds me of the random and crazy humor of Monty Python, and the Holy Grail.

4) As for Yahtzee, I have and alway will believe he is a good reviewer. While this recent "Review / Movie / Thing" is a little out of his element, it is still stating what he believes. Most reviewers now days give perfects for brand name video games and poor reviews for games that are a little out there. While I like halo 1-3 I would never agree that any of them deserve a 10/10 probably not even a 8/10. (I will alway hate the cliff hanger at the end of halo 2) I believe Yahtzee review based on what he thinks. Most of the time he gives and honest review even though it goes against what most reviewers and fanboys would call a perfect game just because it has the title Halo, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, and Metal Gear Solid. I will always disagree with something Yahtzee says because my individual opinion defines what I likes and what I dislike but I respect the Honesty that Yahtzee gives in his reviews when some reviewers are just grading a name.

1) As someone already stated, comics are a form of art. The drawing talents can either add or detract from the storytelling as well.

2) Why is labeling something "shit" ignorant? There has been plenty of WALL OF TEXT responses with well reasoned and well thought out responses, so I fail to see the ignorance there. That as an aside, those of us seriously arguing CAD have disliked it for a while. You don't amass this much useless information overnight...also, why would you require "proof" if you just said calling something "shit" shouldn't be done? I'm just saying you've got a bit of a contradiction there.

3) Please don't compare Monty Python with CAD...That's on par with comparing D. H. Lawrence with a fanfiction writer. Sure the latter can have brief spouts of originality and can surprise every now and again, but it's not on the same level.

4) I have no argument there. You like what you like, when you like, and how you like it, and yet you can still see what the issues are but don't let them get in the way of your enjoyment. You have no idea how nice it is to hear that.

 

[Jarannis]

The way I see it is this, and yes I joined JUST to comment on this video.

CAD has never been a comic entirely for one-liners and running gags, it's a story comic, and a semi-believable one at that. The thing is, life can be peaches and cream for the most part, and then something tragic and unexpected can happen. It changes lives. People do things differently from their usual actions, they're more serious during something like that.

There was a lot of symbolism between the comic and what Tim himself went through, which brings a little more reality into it. I think the miscarriage storyline was well carried out. While it was shocking and sudden, and also a complete takeaway from what CAD had been before, it took guts. It's not like you get over a miscarriage in ten seconds flat, there's a lot of thinking, and self blame in there. To reach a point where you can get over that fear and worry about how it COULD have gone, and then to put both your story and your character's story out there is a big achievement for anyone who's been through that.

And to those who are complaining about the CAD diehards not explaining why they like CAD, can you take a look at a piece of art in a museum and say "Yep... I like that one because of (x/y/z reason)" or does it touch you in a way you can't describe?

 

[linkdestroyer]

TO Kovash86:
1) I'm not saying that a comic can't be a beautiful piece of art. I'm arguing it doesn't have to be a piece of art just to be a good comic.

2) With free will, I believe it is impossible to find anything to be truly bad or truly good, in the eyes of the populous. With 8 billion people out there it is almost impossible to find a true majority that supports or attacks a certain thing. As for bring up the companies, that just supports your ignorance. Companies try to make it look like they are supported by the majority. Its your own opinion though. You should support what you like not because someone else says you should enjoy it. If you begin to conform, then you are just turning into a drone.

4) I believe you are just making a statement. I not sure you are agreeing or disagree but whatever.

To ElArabDeMagnifico:
If you do find that site I would like to view it. If I do enjoy it then I have something else to put in my bookmarks.

As for the blatant attacks and movies galore. I guess you could call me a fanboy because as I already mention I usually enjoy CAD so I really don't care if someone rants on it. Basically I respect you don't like CAD, but I really don't care to hear why you don't like CAD.

TO Tempdude0:

I'm not saying:
"I believe that modern art is Shit" is ignorant.
I'm saying:
"I believe a majority of people think modern art is shit" is ignorant.

I guess I should of clarify that point but then again everything that I say sounds right in my mind.

and also the voice in my head agrees.

TO sluffo:
Because it is so much easier to edit then reply.

I don't recall anyone in the current debate mentioning their shock of Yahtzee's shift in movies. I mentioned it was out of his element, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm shocked.

 

[sluffo]

Why are some of you shocked over this video? Yahtzee's income is driven by rage. PVP, VGcats, Explosm and alot of other webcomics have taken a rip at CAD.

 

[John Freeman.]

Tim Buckley died at 9:42pm, June 29, 1975,

from " acute heroin / morphine and ethanol intoxication due to inhalation and ingestion of overdose ".

 

[Kovash86]

@linkdestroyer
1)You basically said it can look like shit so long as the dialog is ok and it will be considered art when it shouldn't be considered art it should be called half-assed.
2)There is only 6 billion people on earth...(6.6 technically) where did you get 8 billion people?How the hell can you call me ignorant when you didn't even know how many people there was on earth? You were stupid enough to ask who can say what is shit and what isn't so I told you who, in the sense that they are paid to do it so, they SHOULD do it more correctly than someone who is just voicing their oft-moronic opinion. The point of a critic is to give you a better idea about the object they are critiquing so you don't go out and buy the thing, only then realizing it was Aquaman 64.
4) I figured if you were going to do a factual-looking post based on your opinion I would as well.

 

[smallharmlesskitten]

I have a comic for this thread, adressed at every webcomic in existance

oh the delicious irony

 

[linkdestroyer]

TO Kovash86:
1) You keep taking it to the extremes. I'm SAYING that with a good story telling, bad drawing
can be forgiven. According to Wikipedai.org "Comics are typically seen as a low art." probably taking that statement completely out of context but whatever.

2) Sorry I must of been think of the projections of the population. It is currently 4:32 and I'm getting drowsy. Not the best excuse but whatever. Also I think you are still missing the point though. NO ONE can go to some form of expression and brand it "shit" and say that it is the will of the majority that this is "shit".

But I will concede to you. I had forgot about the comic book movie video games. I shudder to think of the poor person who finds those games entertaining.

TO the person who doesn't like Monty Python and I really don't care to look up your name:

I think Monty Python is a staple in modern humor. AND FOR THOSE WHO DISAGREE I FART IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION.
YOUR MOTHER WAS A HAMSTER AND YOUR FATHER SMELT OF ELDER BERRIES.

Monty Python has one thing to teach everyone. The air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow is 24 kilometers per hour

GOOD NIGHT / MORNING / AFTERNOON / EVENING

 

[Kovash86]

1) You keep taking it to the extremes. I'm SAYING that with a good story telling, bad drawing
can be forgiven. According to Wikipedai.org "Comics are typically seen as a low art." probably taking that statement completely out of context but whatever.

2) Sorry I must of been think of the projections of the population. It is currently 4:32 and I'm getting drowsy. Not the best excuse but whatever. Also I think you are still missing the point though. NO ONE can go to some form of expression and brand it "shit" and say that it is the will of the majority that this is "shit".

But I will concede to you. I had forgot about the comic book movie video games. I shudder to think of the poor person who finds those games entertaining.

1)You have to think of things not only in the minority but also in the extremes otherwise you don't get the full picture, you can still look at the details that's fine and dandy but what if say something that looks like a 6 year old did it had an ok dialog and story in it, the thing would be considered art by your logic, when it most certainly isn't
2)You can brand something as shit, that doesn't mean people won't buy it anyway, look at The Hulk, or candy corn, two things everyone knows is crap and yet I know more than enough people who own both. Critics also don't consider themselves the will of the public (well the ones worth while don't) they look at something and tell you the good parts and the bad parts, and if they don't find any good parts, in their opinion, they consider it shit, unless you are movie critics at which point you are paid to give a better grade more often than I am comfortable with.

Huh...you are the first person to concede to me gracefully...normally they will fight it out with me until I win. Tenacity, a (usually) unbiased opinion, (I will admit though this one has me up in arms because that is pissing on an art medium I enjoy far too much to put up with someone pissing on)and a fairly good grasp on what is being discussed, usually gets me a win. I applaud your grace.