Zero Suit Samus has a great character model

[Smeatza]

With Samus, it makes less sense.
And the design of those boots is ugly and unpractical. They look pretty dangerous to her ankles.

They look to me like they'll function the same way Chell's Advanced Knee Replacements work in the Portal games and don't look any less practical.
Their ugliness contributes to the standardised emergency equipment feel I mentioned.

Does it make less sense?
When I played Metroid it was the Power Suit and the Varia suit and at that time I would have agreed giving Samus high heels of any kind would have been pointless.
But somewhere down the line they obviously started doing things a bit more stylistically, emphasising her gender by putting her in a catsuit and giving her unrealistic combat capability outside of her power suits.
The high heels in the most recent design are either a continuation of what the zero suit has always been about or a little drop of practicality added into the mix.

 

[Lieju]

With Samus, it makes less sense.
And the design of those boots is ugly and unpractical. They look pretty dangerous to her ankles.

They look to me like they'll function the same way Chell's Advanced Knee Replacements work in the Portal games and don't look any less practical.
Their ugliness contributes to the standardised emergency equipment feel I mentioned.

Why would she have standardized emergency equipment? Her suit is unique, both Zero suit and her armor are.
And the rest of her design doesn't imply she had scavenged her equipment from somewhere.
Portal boots at least look more scifi-esque.

If they were more scifi-looking, I don't think I'd have such a problem. Or even if they were more boot-like and less bright yellow. The way they are, they just look like ugly shoes.

 

[Nazulu]

Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

They certainly do clash. I remember when I first saw this new design the first thing I noticed were the heels. They're the main Focus Point, and unless she is advertising new footwear, it just looks unbalanced. They just need to make it more subtle for it work.

 

[otakon17]

[/QUOTE]
Is it me or does it look like the heels are fold-able, or at least slide back and then move up when not in use? I can't be the only one that sees what looks like hinges in the area between the yellow and that silver circle.[/quote]

Okay even if they DO fold up or retract, she's walking around on the ball of her foot like a damn cat. Humans can't balance well like that.

[QUOTE=Smeatza][QUOTE=Lieju]With Samus, it makes less sense.
And the design of those boots is ugly and unpractical. They look pretty dangerous to her ankles.[/QUOTE]

They look to me like they'll function the same way Chell's Advanced Knee Replacements work in the Portal games and don't look any less practical.
Their ugliness contributes to the standardised emergency equipment feel I mentioned.

Does it make less sense?
When I played Metroid it was the Power Suit and the Varia suit and at that time I would have agreed giving Samus high heels of any kind would have been pointless.
But somewhere down the line they obviously started doing things a bit more stylistically, emphasising her gender by putting her in a catsuit and giving her unrealistic combat capability outside of her power suits.
The high heels in the most recent design are either a continuation of what the zero suit has always been about or a little drop of practicality added into the mix.[/quote]

Okay, have you SEEN Chells jumpers?

[IMG]http://rockntech.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/action-figure-chell_4.jpg

There is a CLEAR difference. It's designed as a springboard and the weight of her step is focused on a length of metal that's near as wide as her foot compared to trying to balance on a "peg" of a pair of high heels. Sure, it carries the same basic shape as high heels but it's actually functional as far as I can tell.

 

[SD-Fiend]

All right, just want to nip this in the bud:

Yes, it would be stupid for an actual fighter to wear high heels. It would also be stupid for an actual ape to wear a tie, and for an actual plumber to jump 30 feet in the air. It's a videogame. You can do that!

So, what would your response be if they gave Mario high heels?
I mean, why not? It's a video-game, you could do that!

Or, for that matter, why not change Mario's character-design to look less cartoonish and more appealing for women and gay men? They could portray him as a hunky guy whose shirt disappears when he uses his firepowers or something.

I would find that hilarious and they should totally do it. High heel power ups for everyone. As bad as you think it sounds there are people that would get behind those ideas.

Kinda like why you'd think an fatality would be turning people into babies but damnit it worked and it was funny.

I am 100% behind that idea. They should make it an item you can get in smash run.

Spoiler

 

[SD-Fiend]

Here's a brilliant thought, why doesn't she use her power armor boots? Say she salvages them or whatever, now she has armored boots for better/harder kicking and that have built in functions such as higher & double jump.

It kinda ruins the point of her being zero suit Samus if she is able to use her suit. If she's able to salvage the boots then why not salvage the arm cannon or the torso? Also it's pretty obvious that the heels aren't actually part of the suit so I'd assume she'd put them on affter the suit comes off so I'm not sure why the design specs matter at this point.

Ruins the point of her being in her zero suit? The point of her being in it is catastrophic malfunction of her suit and her priority was always to run to find a place to hide or replacement. Which was once.

Why not the arm cannon or torso? One would assume they would be much too heavy to effectively wield without the support of the suit to counteract weight and powering said devices. The boots are likely to have weight negating features as they allow her to jump high regardless of the weight of the suit, and then double jump and high jump.
That's the problem the heels don't fit, they don't fit the design and they don't fit in the suit in a way she could hide them, it's not like she has a glove box on the thing. They honestly could have just given her original Zero Suit some sort of boosters or some nonsense but instead they strap really stupidly designed high heels to her that don't fit design wise or in any other way- they're out of place in so many ways I'm surprised anyone is defending them- other than it's Nintendo and they always have defenders regardless of how stupid their decision is.

Why does it matter? it doesn't in the long run but as I stated this is simply frustrating that Nintendo has NO idea what to do with the series; as it's been made clear by the long stretches of time with no Metroid game before Retro Studios came along and resurrected the series and then Nintendo took control Other M and now this stupidity in Smash Brothers.

They are incapable of doing something with their female protagonist or the series who's widely regarded as one of the finest female heroes.

The point of Zero Suit Samus is to show that she won't just lie down and die if she loses the Power Suit.

If we are going to "assume" things then I am going to "assume" that the boots are either too dangerous to use without the rest of the suit for reinforcement or that they cannot be used unless the suit is whole. I can also assume that the boots themselves are too heavy and stiff without the power source that comes from the suit.

Is it really too hard to imagine that the heels aren't actually part of the Zero Suit and that she stores them in her ship or something? And isn't your complaint that they don't fit inside the Power Suit? Wouldn't boosters that are actually attached to the Zero suit make even less sense? And so what if the color doesn't match with the suit? do you really expect someone like Samus to be picky about colors?

People defend this decision because people complain about it it's a cycle that will never end. The decision is stupid for you because it isn't what you want from Samus but for other people it isn't a big deal especially since it's happening a in a non canon game.

 

[Eve Charm]

I am 100% behind that idea. They should make it an item you can get in smash run.

Spoiler

Lol ok that picture wins internets

If people want to whine about it, fine this is the smash universe, I'm pretty damn sure no one has been walking around claiming the smash games are Canon.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

All right, just want to nip this in the bud:

Yes, it would be stupid for an actual fighter to wear high heels. It would also be stupid for an actual ape to wear a tie, and for an actual plumber to jump 30 feet in the air. It's a videogame. You can do that!

Really? You're going with that line? The 'dude, it's just a game, it's not real it doesn't mean anything!' rationale? The depiction of female protagonists matters because of their lack, and because of the kind of ideas and associations (re what is female and what is 'feminine') that a very male dominated industry (and society/culture) perpetuate.

I've not been aware of entire social schisms occurring in order to allow apes or particularly agile Italian plumbers a right to vote, or to have equal pay, or be generally seen as 1:1 equals deserving of equal (and equally diverse) representation, and so on...

As far as I see it, thus far Samus has only been a Strong Female Character, i.e. just another fairly dumb trope - but one that, in the past, has been useful and relatively progressive (e.g. a female lead who isn't defined by being 'feminine', who kicks ass). Now, it seems Samus - a character once popular for the aforementioned label - is being shown off as just another piece of conformist eye candy, which is a depressing step down from being a Strong Female Character.

Meanwhile, Lara Croft went from 'oops, my mouse slipped!'-era sex object (whilst also being a SFC, to be fair), to a post-Katniss slice of relatably human awesomeness. Samus has clearly headed in the opposite direction, which Nintendo should be ashamed of.

One last thing re whether this matters or not: a lot of female gamers have talked about how pleased they were, as kids, that the armour clad character they were controlling and kicking ass with just so happened to be female. I really don't see Zero Suit Samus having any such impact on young girls, as the imagery just reinforces the dumb BS the rest of society is so apathetically fond of (maybe Ninty can do a Zero Suit tie in for Barbie?). There is nothing different, or unique, or empowering about it.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Well I suppose they did somewhat made her suit realistic in that it's a cloth over her chest as oppose to being her suit was molded to hold her left and right breast in unless they wanted her suit to be spendex/ bra like in the first place.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

Er... how often does Samus kick? And didn't she have a gun? I could be misremembering since it's been years since I played Brawl, but I'm pretty sure she did. Either way, a gun still would've been more practical and more logical for the character than a weird pair of high-heeled boots that simply look gaudy and silly.

Actually Samus jump-kick is one of her strongest moves in Smash bros. Always was. Not as awesome as Falcons knee-to-your-face-oops-youre-dead move but fearsome.

 

[shrekfan246]

Er... how often does Samus kick? And didn't she have a gun? I could be misremembering since it's been years since I played Brawl, but I'm pretty sure she did. Either way, a gun still would've been more practical and more logical for the character than a weird pair of high-heeled boots that simply look gaudy and silly.

Actually Samus jump-kick is one of her strongest moves in Smash bros. Always was. Not as awesome as Falcons knee-to-your-face-oops-youre-dead move but fearsome.

That's... still only one move. She kicks while ducking too, right? Not really enough to justify an entire redesign, though, if you ask me. Especially when, technically speaking, the new design would make said attack less practical to pull off.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

All right, just want to nip this in the bud:

Yes, it would be stupid for an actual fighter to wear high heels. It would also be stupid for an actual ape to wear a tie, and for an actual plumber to jump 30 feet in the air. It's a videogame. You can do that!

So, what would your response be if they gave Mario high heels?
I mean, why not? It's a video-game, you could do that!

Or, for that matter, why not change Mario's character-design to look less cartoonish and more appealing for women and gay men? They could portray him as a hunky guy whose shirt disappears when he uses his firepowers or something.

Surely you know exactly why that's not a valid point.

The complaint I was addressing was that a person in a fighting game would have a hard time actually brawling in high heels. My comment pointed out that this, in fact, is a pointless argument, since the character moves however they move regardless of what accessories they are wearing

And to answer you more directly, if you remove her characterization in Other M, the only personality trait Samus has is being a woman. There's not too many ways to take that. Meanwhile, Mario actually has a sort of personality, albeit a shallow one, and having his shirt evaporate whenever he gains a powerup would contrast sharply with - oh, Christ, do you really need me to explain this? I feel stupid just pointing out why your argument makes no sense!

 

[Casual Shinji]

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Man, I miss old school Japanese art like this. When characters still had a bulk and a weight to them.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

 

[shrekfan246]

The complaint I was addressing was that a person in a fighting game would have a hard time actually brawling in high heels. My comment pointed out that this, in fact, is a pointless argument, since the character moves however they move regardless of what accessories they are wearing

Actually, character models can be drastically changed by something as simple as the accessories they're wearing. A new style of shoe could mean an entirely new set of animations, and could potentially mean an entirely new character rig.

That isn't to say it will be, but it very easily can be.

And to answer you more directly, if you remove her characterization in Other M, the only personality trait Samus has is being a woman. There's not too many ways to take that. Meanwhile, Mario actually has a sort of personality, albeit a shallow one, and having his shirt evaporate whenever he gains a powerup would contrast sharply with - oh, Christ, do you really need me to explain this? I feel stupid just pointing out why your argument makes no sense!

And... also, Samus has just as much of a personality as Mario does if we're going by that logic. Actions speak louder than words, and her actions throughout the original 2D Metroid games and Metroid Prime paint a pretty vivid picture. In fact, you saying her only "personality trait" is "being a woman" is perhaps the most damning part of your entire argument here.

 

[Snotnarok]

Here's a brilliant thought, why doesn't she use her power armor boots? Say she salvages them or whatever, now she has armored boots for better/harder kicking and that have built in functions such as higher & double jump.

It kinda ruins the point of her being zero suit Samus if she is able to use her suit. If she's able to salvage the boots then why not salvage the arm cannon or the torso? Also it's pretty obvious that the heels aren't actually part of the suit so I'd assume she'd put them on affter the suit comes off so I'm not sure why the design specs matter at this point.

Ruins the point of her being in her zero suit? The point of her being in it is catastrophic malfunction of her suit and her priority was always to run to find a place to hide or replacement. Which was once.

Why not the arm cannon or torso? One would assume they would be much too heavy to effectively wield without the support of the suit to counteract weight and powering said devices. The boots are likely to have weight negating features as they allow her to jump high regardless of the weight of the suit, and then double jump and high jump.
That's the problem the heels don't fit, they don't fit the design and they don't fit in the suit in a way she could hide them, it's not like she has a glove box on the thing. They honestly could have just given her original Zero Suit some sort of boosters or some nonsense but instead they strap really stupidly designed high heels to her that don't fit design wise or in any other way- they're out of place in so many ways I'm surprised anyone is defending them- other than it's Nintendo and they always have defenders regardless of how stupid their decision is.

Why does it matter? it doesn't in the long run but as I stated this is simply frustrating that Nintendo has NO idea what to do with the series; as it's been made clear by the long stretches of time with no Metroid game before Retro Studios came along and resurrected the series and then Nintendo took control Other M and now this stupidity in Smash Brothers.

They are incapable of doing something with their female protagonist or the series who's widely regarded as one of the finest female heroes.

The point of Zero Suit Samus is to show that she won't just lie down and die if she loses the Power Suit.

If we are going to "assume" things then I am going to "assume" that the boots are either too dangerous to use without the rest of the suit for reinforcement or that they cannot be used unless the suit is whole. I can also assume that the boots themselves are too heavy and stiff without the power source that comes from the suit.

Is it really too hard to imagine that the heels aren't actually part of the Zero Suit and that she stores them in her ship or something? And isn't your complaint that they don't fit inside the Power Suit? Wouldn't boosters that are actually attached to the Zero suit make even less sense? And so what if the color doesn't match with the suit? do you really expect someone like Samus to be picky about colors?

People defend this decision because people complain about it it's a cycle that will never end. The decision is stupid for you because it isn't what you want from Samus but for other people it isn't a big deal especially since it's happening a in a non canon game.

Why would the boots be too dangerous to use? They don't do anything dangerous except lift higher, this is the Varia suit moment in Other M here. Nothing dangerous but better keep that thing in check. The point is moot. She stores her high heels in her ship, so her suit explodes, she runs back to her ship and instead of getting a powersuit she gets some new kicks for no reason? Okay. Why not then have combat boots made for fighting and rocket boosting instead of these heels then? They'd be better in every single way.

No, my complaint is that heels in combat are retarded, there's no nicer way to put it, lower grip, likely to get stuck in ground, 10x more likely to break your ankles on top of this they look stupid and there's no place she'd store them. Call them space heels and have tech to stop that and it's just countered with why waste space and tech invested in countering stupid inappropriate equipment in combat and just WEAR something sensible? No, I kind of expect Samus to use things that fit the situation. Not sure what you meant there, I meant put boosters in her actual Zero Suit footwear, something similar to her chozo tech.

Okay, so let's take Mario and give him giant boots to make sure he can double jump they'll be silver and they have speakers on the sides, Bowser now gets robot claws, Fox fights with a pink biker helmet on. While we're at it all those Fire Emblem characters are going to need heels and platform boots, all of them ,this way they're taller so their swords can be swung in wider arcs without hitting the ground. Who cares about character accuracy it's just a fighting game, but she's doing wild things so she needs these heels right?

No people defend it because it's Nintendo and they know better because they're making the game right? This being reflected by their incompetence in Other M and this game now. People like me call people out on this because it's dumb, we have enough girls wearing heels in fighting games- you know MOST OF THEM, so a little variety and common sense is nice in characters. Heels don't make sense in combat, they're dumb for not just Samus but anyone and defending them doesn't make sense because ANY footwear in combat including barefoot is a better idea than wearing something that's likely to break your own ankles.

Like other people defending this, I'm not really seeing anything detailing any advantage or why they're the better idea to anything else, just "hey they could work probably" because there's nothing to defend, heels don't work in combat, it's a bad idea and saying "it looks good" doesn't even work because they look like nerf guns.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

The complaint I was addressing was that a person in a fighting game would have a hard time actually brawling in high heels. My comment pointed out that this, in fact, is a pointless argument, since the character moves however they move regardless of what accessories they are wearing

Actually, character models can be drastically changed by something as simple as the accessories they're wearing. A new style of shoe could mean an entirely new set of animations, and could potentially mean an entirely new character rig.

That isn't to say it will be, but it very easily can be.

And to answer you more directly, if you remove her characterization in Other M, the only personality trait Samus has is being a woman. There's not too many ways to take that. Meanwhile, Mario actually has a sort of personality, albeit a shallow one, and having his shirt evaporate whenever he gains a powerup would contrast sharply with - oh, Christ, do you really need me to explain this? I feel stupid just pointing out why your argument makes no sense!

And... also, Samus has just as much of a personality as Mario does if we're going by that logic. Actions speak louder than words, and her actions throughout the original 2D Metroid games and Metroid Prime paint a pretty vivid picture. In fact, you saying her only "personality trait" is "being a woman" is perhaps the most damning part of your entire argument here.

All right, then. Elucidate for me, what is Samus' personality?

 

[otakon17]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

1. I wasn't attempting to patronize anyone, I apologize if it came off like that.
2. I wasn't claiming they were sexy /and/ ugly. I'm saying they made it that way to BE sexy but it looks ugly.
3. That wasn't Peach, that was Daisy you're thinking about. And I'm talking about MAJOR design changes over just fine-tuning/refining the character. Now, in this case Samus' suit has more or less been the same the entire time; it's the person INSIDE the suit that they've so radically changed over the years. And the thing was, it wasn't a gradual change either. It was rather rapid compared to like, Mario or Link.

As a quote from a friend who knows a bit about fashion in general:
makes their legs look longer, results in thinner silhouette, since they force the back to arch it pushes their breasts and butt outwards, which accentuates the wearer's feminimity, thus making them more traditionally attractive

So, there you go.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Oversexualiztion? No. Although a catsuit is fetish clothing, it's not with the intention to sexualize that character. The high heels were really dumb though. Why are you people defending that?
---
Good Design? Since this is what the thread is supposed to be about, this is the part where I say that you know nothing about design. The design for zero suit is terribly boring and generic.

To show this, I'll give a basic test: What is distinct about her?
Her long blond hair and tight blue suit, of course!

Good eye- now for the more advanced test: What is distinct about her silhouette?
She's a long haired girl.

She could be anyone from almost any franchise. I'll just pick one off the top of my head... Virtua Fighter?

I honestly can't tell these characters apart if it weren't for what they're wearing, but if silhouetted I would claim that they were the same. Say what you want about the original Samus suit, but at least it's distinct. I cannot name anything the even remotely looks like it. Face it; the original design is vastly superior to the zero suit in every single way shape and form.

EDIT:
I feel that this may be an indirect response to statements like these:

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

 

[Ninmecu]

...Those heels are gaudy as all hell, who can honestly tell me she's been pornified with a straight face. I mean, seriously, I'm curious to know who can actually claim to believe that.