Zero Suit Samus has a great character model

[DrOswald]

Snippity snaps

Wow man, that's a solid list right there, saves me the time, well done.
Although much like erttheking I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one there, since from what I've seen she has quite a bit of fervor when it comes to certain things; calling X parasites abominations that need to be destroyed for one, and immediately chasing down to kill Ridley in Metroid Prime 1 for the other as my two prime examples.
Edit: And then you went and clarified before I could post this. Whoops.

No, your point is well made. I may have to reevaluate.

OT: So the Zero Suit serves a simple function right? It's the undersuit for the oversuit sorta thing, so why in the hell would she be wearing heels in the suit? That'd be the equivalent of wearing heels inside of boots for crying out loud, it makes no sense at all.

Like it has been said before, I think the point of the heels is that they are emergency backup equipment, like the stun gun/electric whip thing. She probably has a small locker in her ship that contains backup equipment if her suit fails for any reason. Remember, in this game the zero suit is not a morph of Samus but an entirely different character option. They are not part of the zero suit any more than the gun.

 

[Radoh]

Snippity snaps

Wow man, that's a solid list right there, saves me the time, well done.
Although much like erttheking I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one there, since from what I've seen she has quite a bit of fervor when it comes to certain things; calling X parasites abominations that need to be destroyed for one, and immediately chasing down to kill Ridley in Metroid Prime 1 for the other as my two prime examples.
Edit: And then you went and clarified before I could post this. Whoops.

No, the point is well made.

OT: So the Zero Suit serves a simple function right? It's the undersuit for the oversuit sorta thing, so why in the hell would she be wearing heels in the suit? That'd be the equivalent of wearing heels inside of boots for crying out loud, it makes no sense at all.

Like it has been said before, I think the point of the heels is that they are emergency backup equipment, like the stun gun/electric whip thing. She probably has a small locker in her ship that contains backup equipment if her suit fails for any reason. Remember, in this game the zero suit is not a morph of Samus but an entirely different character option. They are not part of the zero suit any more than the gun.

Hmm, I don't know about that though, because the whole point of being able to be Zero Suit Sam in Brawl was so that she wasn't as bulky and was far more maneuverable, so much so that I would play against a friend of mine who would regularly opt to just ignore the suit entirely. Throwing heels on Mobile Samus Asswhooper just seems to undermine the point, even if they might act as a better double jump function.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion.

 

[DrOswald]

Snippity snaps

Wow man, that's a solid list right there, saves me the time, well done.
Although much like erttheking I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one there, since from what I've seen she has quite a bit of fervor when it comes to certain things; calling X parasites abominations that need to be destroyed for one, and immediately chasing down to kill Ridley in Metroid Prime 1 for the other as my two prime examples.
Edit: And then you went and clarified before I could post this. Whoops.

No, the point is well made.

OT: So the Zero Suit serves a simple function right? It's the undersuit for the oversuit sorta thing, so why in the hell would she be wearing heels in the suit? That'd be the equivalent of wearing heels inside of boots for crying out loud, it makes no sense at all.

Like it has been said before, I think the point of the heels is that they are emergency backup equipment, like the stun gun/electric whip thing. She probably has a small locker in her ship that contains backup equipment if her suit fails for any reason. Remember, in this game the zero suit is not a morph of Samus but an entirely different character option. They are not part of the zero suit any more than the gun.

Hmm, I don't know about that though, because the whole point of being able to be Zero Suit Sam in Brawl was so that she wasn't as bulky and was far more maneuverable, so much so that I would play against a friend of mine who would regularly opt to just ignore the suit entirely. Throwing heels on Mobile Samus Asswhooper just seems to undermine the point, even if they might act as a better double jump function.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion.

I was talking more in a purely in universe explanation of what the heels are and their purpose.

 

[Radoh]

additional snippy snaps

Extraneous equipment thrown on to opt for a different fighting style sans suit seems reasonable enough I guess, though I still don't understand the functionality of the bracelets in that case.
Also if that is the case then you'd expect her to have something bigger than the hold-out pistol/whip like a rifle or something.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

1. I wasn't attempting to patronize anyone, I apologize if it came off like that.
2. I wasn't claiming they were sexy /and/ ugly. I'm saying they made it that way to BE sexy but it looks ugly.
3. That wasn't Peach, that was Daisy you're thinking about. And I'm talking about MAJOR design changes over just fine-tuning/refining the character. Now, in this case Samus' suit has more or less been the same the entire time; it's the person INSIDE the suit that they've so radically changed over the years. And the thing was, it wasn't a gradual change either. It was rather rapid compared to like, Mario or Link.

As a quote from a friend who knows a bit about fashion in general:
makes their legs look longer, results in thinner silhouette, since they force the back to arch it pushes their breasts and butt outwards, which accentuates the wearer's feminimity, thus making them more traditionally attractive

So, there you go.

No, it WAS Peach. In Super Mario 1, 2, and 3, she had brown hair. She even had brown hair in the tv show, for crying out loud.

And the heels were obviously not made for sex appeal. If they were, don't you think they would've been made...sexier? Do you really think the designers considered them the sexiest they could make? No, they purposefully made them big, clunky, and industrial-looking. Kind of like the Power Suit.

Furthermore, the only rapid change that Samus' design made was from Metroid to Metroid 2, when they changed her hair color. Then the blond hair, ponytail, and Zero Suit followed. As changes go, it's pretty gradual.

Finally, your complaints about the sexualization of her character seem more suited to her depiction in Brawl. A noble goal, but seven years too late.

 

[Lilani]

First of all, people are complaining that the character has now been 'too sexualized.' This is, in fact, stupid, since Samus has been sexualized in almost every game she's been in. For every 2D game, the faster you complete the game, the more undressed she is in the ending cinematic. Hell, she was even guilty of this in Brawl. Think about the first scene you see her in - dropping down from some air vent, the camera panning over her backside before we even see her face. My non-Nintendo cousins saw this and immediately started laughing at my attempts to explain, no really, she's a badass. So I fail to see how this is any worse.

Until her Zero Suit days, Samus' power suits have been purely utilitarian. They weren't designed to accentuate her feminine features, hell the only way she could have been identified as a female at first was when the suit was off. Which was a great thing unique to Samus: one of the few mech suits worn by a female to come out of Japan that didn't have big metal boobs or simulated high-heels. Looking at it that way, this is rather a step backward for her style.

Secondly, the heels really aren't that sexy. They're big, clunky, and look like a utilitarian piece of gear. Which they are. I remember hearing someone say that if you have rocket boots, a high heel makes sense, since you need a tube for the flames to shoot down. That may not have been the reasoning the designers had, but the point remains that the shoes seem like a standard powerup. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up in the next Metroid game.

Whether or not that particular set of heels is sexy isn't the point. Heels are a style of footware designed with only aesthetics in mind, they aren't practical at all and are downright dangerous to the wearer. Again, it's a step backward from the all-business, no-fluff style that has always been a factor in Samus' design.

Third - and I don't see a lot of people making this point - this new Zero Suit Samus is a really good character model. I'm serious, the design improves on a lot of flaws from Brawl. For example, in Brawl, the Zero suit looked just like it had in Zero Mission, its inception - an undergarment, something you wear so the Power suit doesn't get all sweaty. However, this begs the question of why you would wear such an armor into battle, as you only use it in Zero Mission when you have no other choice. The new Zero Suit looks a lot more functional, with the jet boots offering a strong offensive (no pun intended) capability. Also, the suit itself has a more intricate design, with multiple different colors to give the impression that it might actually be something you could wear in situations other than near total incapacitation. Aesthetically, it's a very streamlined design with a unique appeal. I thought the same thing with Rosalina as I thought here - it's a shame Nintendo doesn't make many new character designs, they're really good at it.

The problem with Zero Suit Samus wasn't just the Zero Suit. It was the fact that her character's agency was completely sapped from that game on top of the--as compared to her previous garments--rather gratuitous nature of the suit that brings so much hate. Nobody's arguing it's poorly modeled or shaded, it's that when they finally bothered "improving" upon Samus' character and design they made her a whiny little ***** in a painted on cat suit.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

if you remove her characterization in Other M, the only personality trait Samus has is being a woman. There's not too many ways to take that.

...
Being a woman is a personality trait?

We do know some stuff about her. One, she was raised by alien birds. Two, she spends most of her time alone running around the galaxy exploring alien worlds. She has chosen a solitary lifestyle.

Those are things that inform character.
Why would she be 'traditionally feminine'? Or try to appear sexy? Especially in battle?

So...

What is Mario's personality, then?
Apart from being male, of course. (Which would naturally mean his shirt should occasionally disappear)

Well, that's simple. Mario is upbeat and cheerful about the job he does, whooping in joy with every jump. He's not too complex, but some subtle things slip through now and then. In Dark Moon, for example, when he is saved by Luigi, he immediately showers praise on his brother, proud and willing to give credit where it is due. In the RPGs, he often jumps at the chance to have Bowser join his cause, bearing no grudges whatsoever. In Sunshine, he's immediately willing to put his vacation on hold to help the Piantas, harboring no resentment against the people who wrongly jailed him in a phony trial.

In short, he's pretty plain, but still has one clear personality trait that sets him apart from most: optimism. You wouldn't see Link doing a little celebratory dance every time he solves a puzzle. It may be small, but it's crucial to his character

 

[Matthew Jabour]

First of all, people are complaining that the character has now been 'too sexualized.' This is, in fact, stupid, since Samus has been sexualized in almost every game she's been in. For every 2D game, the faster you complete the game, the more undressed she is in the ending cinematic. Hell, she was even guilty of this in Brawl. Think about the first scene you see her in - dropping down from some air vent, the camera panning over her backside before we even see her face. My non-Nintendo cousins saw this and immediately started laughing at my attempts to explain, no really, she's a badass. So I fail to see how this is any worse.

Until her Zero Suit days, Samus' power suits have been purely utilitarian. They weren't designed to accentuate her feminine features, hell the only way she could have been identified as a female at first was when the suit was off. Which was a great thing unique to Samus: one of the few mech suits worn by a female to come out of Japan that didn't have big metal boobs or simulated high-heels. Looking at it that way, this is rather a step backward for her style.

Secondly, the heels really aren't that sexy. They're big, clunky, and look like a utilitarian piece of gear. Which they are. I remember hearing someone say that if you have rocket boots, a high heel makes sense, since you need a tube for the flames to shoot down. That may not have been the reasoning the designers had, but the point remains that the shoes seem like a standard powerup. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up in the next Metroid game.

Whether or not that particular set of heels is sexy isn't the point. Heels are a style of footware designed to look good, they aren't practical at all and are downright dangerous to the wearer. Again, it's a step backward from the all-business, no-fluff style that has always been a factor in Samus' design.

Third - and I don't see a lot of people making this point - this new Zero Suit Samus is a really good character model. I'm serious, the design improves on a lot of flaws from Brawl. For example, in Brawl, the Zero suit looked just like it had in Zero Mission, its inception - an undergarment, something you wear so the Power suit doesn't get all sweaty. However, this begs the question of why you would wear such an armor into battle, as you only use it in Zero Mission when you have no other choice. The new Zero Suit looks a lot more functional, with the jet boots offering a strong offensive (no pun intended) capability. Also, the suit itself has a more intricate design, with multiple different colors to give the impression that it might actually be something you could wear in situations other than near total incapacitation. Aesthetically, it's a very streamlined design with a unique appeal. I thought the same thing with Rosalina as I thought here - it's a shame Nintendo doesn't make many new character designs, they're really good at it.

The problem with Zero Suit Samus wasn't just the Zero Suit. It was the fact that her character's agency was completely sapped from that game on top of the--as compared to her previous garments--rather gratuitous nature of the suit that brings so much hate. Nobody's arguing it's poorly modeled or shaded, it's that when they finally bothered "improving" upon Samus' character and design they made her a whiny little ***** in a painted on cat suit.

Let me disagree with you on that last point. The Zero Suit has actually been improving her agency steadily over the years.

Let's start with Super Metroid. Samus wears her power suit for virtually the whole game, but when she dies, it's stripped from her and we see her in bits of a torn suit, lying prone. The message is clear: without the power suit, she's toast.

Next, Zero Mission. This game featured an extended segment in which Samus loses her suit and is forced to sneak her way through a pirate ship to regain it in only her Zero Suit. She's vulnerable, but still clearly capable, proving that under that suit, there's still a powerful person.

After that, Brawl improved even farther. Samus spent the first half of her role in the singleplayer in her Zero Suit, searching for the Power Suit once again. Not only is she given a new weapon, she singlehandedly (all right, there's a Pikachu with her, but he's hardly Adam) fends off not one, but two clones of Dark Samus. This is a much more obvious metaphor: it's not the suit, but the person within, that kicks ass.

Now, this has been further cemented. The Zero Suit looks more like an actual garment, and she has a powerful new weapon. (That weapon happens to be high heels, but it still looks pretty strong.) Now we've seen the true purpose of Zero Suit Samus realized: Just because I'm out of the suit doesn't mean I won't kick your ass. To me, it seems like a pretty positive development.

 

[Lilani]

Let me disagree with you on that last point. The Zero Suit has actually been improving her agency steadily over the years.

Let's start with Super Metroid. Samus wears her power suit for virtually the whole game, but when she dies, it's stripped from her and we see her in bits of a torn suit, lying prone. The message is clear: without the power suit, she's toast.

Next, Zero Mission. This game featured an extended segment in which Samus loses her suit and is forced to sneak her way through a pirate ship to regain it in only her Zero Suit. She's vulnerable, but still clearly capable, proving that under that suit, there's still a powerful person.

After that, Brawl improved even farther. Samus spent the first half of her role in the singleplayer in her Zero Suit, searching for the Power Suit once again. Not only is she given a new weapon, she singlehandedly (all right, there's a Pikachu with her, but he's hardly Adam) fends off not one, but two clones of Dark Samus. This is a much more obvious metaphor: it's not the suit, but the person within, that kicks ass.

Now, this has been further cemented. The Zero Suit looks more like an actual garment, and she has a powerful new weapon. (That weapon happens to be high heels, but it still looks pretty strong.) Now we've seen the true purpose of Zero Suit Samus realized: Just because I'm out of the suit doesn't mean I won't kick your ass. To me, it seems like a pretty positive development.

You're compartmentalizing all of these things to avoid the larger issue. You can't just ignore how gratuitously the Zero Suit is designed because she can still kick ass in it, it isn't overwritten or excused. In fact, that's the epitome of gratuitously designed females in games: kicking ass with all the lady lumps put on display as blatantly as possible. And her decrease in agency comes from her whiny, melodramatic moments and her needing to authorize everything with Adam.

Having an emotional character would have been alright, except they should have at least TRIED to make it at least a LITTLE congruent with the previous games. In the past, her expressions of emotion were limited to a shaking of the fist. But regardless, it never interfered with her ability to complete her mission. In Other M she's crying all over the place and being a petulant little child at every turn. It's exasperating, and impossible to imagine any other Samus from any other game behaving in such a way.

I have no problem with them wanting to give her a character and get her out of the power suit. But her alternative suit didn't have to be so gratuitous, and her character didn't have to devolve from a character capable of single-handedly liberating an entire planet to a crybaby who can't wipe her ass with a new brand of toilet paper until her commanding officer gives her the go-ahead.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

Let me disagree with you on that last point. The Zero Suit has actually been improving her agency steadily over the years.

Let's start with Super Metroid. Samus wears her power suit for virtually the whole game, but when she dies, it's stripped from her and we see her in bits of a torn suit, lying prone. The message is clear: without the power suit, she's toast.

Next, Zero Mission. This game featured an extended segment in which Samus loses her suit and is forced to sneak her way through a pirate ship to regain it in only her Zero Suit. She's vulnerable, but still clearly capable, proving that under that suit, there's still a powerful person.

After that, Brawl improved even farther. Samus spent the first half of her role in the singleplayer in her Zero Suit, searching for the Power Suit once again. Not only is she given a new weapon, she singlehandedly (all right, there's a Pikachu with her, but he's hardly Adam) fends off not one, but two clones of Dark Samus. This is a much more obvious metaphor: it's not the suit, but the person within, that kicks ass.

Now, this has been further cemented. The Zero Suit looks more like an actual garment, and she has a powerful new weapon. (That weapon happens to be high heels, but it still looks pretty strong.) Now we've seen the true purpose of Zero Suit Samus realized: Just because I'm out of the suit doesn't mean I won't kick your ass. To me, it seems like a pretty positive development.

You're compartmentalizing all of these things to avoid the larger issue. You can't just ignore how gratuitously the Zero Suit is designed because she can still kick ass in it, it isn't overwritten or excused. In fact, that's the epitome of gratuitously designed females in games: kicking ass with all the lady lumps put on display as blatantly as possible. And her decrease in agency comes from her whiny, melodramatic moments and her needing to authorize everything with Adam.

Having an emotional character would have been alright, except they should have at least TRIED to make it at least a LITTLE congruent with the previous games. In the past, her expressions of emotion were limited to a shaking of the fist. But regardless, it never interfered with her ability to complete her mission. In Other M she's crying all over the place and being a petulant little child at every turn. It's exasperating, and impossible to imagine any other Samus from any other game behaving in such a way.

I have no problem with them wanting to give her a character and get her out of the power suit. But her alternative suit didn't have to be so gratuitous, and her character didn't have to devolve from a character capable of single-handedly liberating an entire planet to a crybaby who can't wipe her ass with a new brand of toilet paper until her commanding officer gives her the go-ahead.

If you wish to complain about Other M, you have come to the wrong thread. For most here, the main strategy is to ignore Other M, and I choose to do the same. (Although, to be fair, I can draw a few parallels between Fusion and Other M.)

I, too, was uncomfortable with the gratuitous Zero Suit when it was first introduced - in 2004 - but it made sense then, as it suggested vulnerability, and so fit with the narrative. And so far, Nintendo has done the proper thing when it comes to making the Zero Suit more commonly used - that is to say, make it look more like an actual garment.

Again, we all hate Other M, but if you want to come here and complain about it some more, you are barking up the wrong tree, missy.

 

[otakon17]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

1. I wasn't attempting to patronize anyone, I apologize if it came off like that.
2. I wasn't claiming they were sexy /and/ ugly. I'm saying they made it that way to BE sexy but it looks ugly.
3. That wasn't Peach, that was Daisy you're thinking about. And I'm talking about MAJOR design changes over just fine-tuning/refining the character. Now, in this case Samus' suit has more or less been the same the entire time; it's the person INSIDE the suit that they've so radically changed over the years. And the thing was, it wasn't a gradual change either. It was rather rapid compared to like, Mario or Link.

As a quote from a friend who knows a bit about fashion in general:
makes their legs look longer, results in thinner silhouette, since they force the back to arch it pushes their breasts and butt outwards, which accentuates the wearer's feminimity, thus making them more traditionally attractive

So, there you go.

No, it WAS Peach. In Super Mario 1, 2, and 3, she had brown hair. She even had brown hair in the tv show, for crying out loud.

And the heels were obviously not made for sex appeal. If they were, don't you think they would've been made...sexier? Do you really think the designers considered them the sexiest they could make? No, they purposefully made them big, clunky, and industrial-looking. Kind of like the Power Suit.

Furthermore, the only rapid change that Samus' design made was from Metroid to Metroid 2, when they changed her hair color. Then the blond hair, ponytail, and Zero Suit followed. As changes go, it's pretty gradual.

Finally, your complaints about the sexualization of her character seem more suited to her depiction in Brawl. A noble goal, but seven years too late.

Fine; I concede on the point of Peaches HAIR changing color. However, beyond that they didn't suddenly make her thinner, make her hair longer, give her a bigger bust and stuck her in a pair of stripper heels.

And I'm saying this: high heels are ONLY for sex appeal. They literally have NO other purpose beyond sex appeal. They aren't functional; ask ANY woman and they'll tell you as much. They made them big and clunky to try and HIDE the fact that that is all high heels are good for. A bad job of it too.

 

[DrOswald]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

1. I wasn't attempting to patronize anyone, I apologize if it came off like that.
2. I wasn't claiming they were sexy /and/ ugly. I'm saying they made it that way to BE sexy but it looks ugly.
3. That wasn't Peach, that was Daisy you're thinking about. And I'm talking about MAJOR design changes over just fine-tuning/refining the character. Now, in this case Samus' suit has more or less been the same the entire time; it's the person INSIDE the suit that they've so radically changed over the years. And the thing was, it wasn't a gradual change either. It was rather rapid compared to like, Mario or Link.

As a quote from a friend who knows a bit about fashion in general:
makes their legs look longer, results in thinner silhouette, since they force the back to arch it pushes their breasts and butt outwards, which accentuates the wearer's feminimity, thus making them more traditionally attractive

So, there you go.

No, it WAS Peach. In Super Mario 1, 2, and 3, she had brown hair. She even had brown hair in the tv show, for crying out loud.

And the heels were obviously not made for sex appeal. If they were, don't you think they would've been made...sexier? Do you really think the designers considered them the sexiest they could make? No, they purposefully made them big, clunky, and industrial-looking. Kind of like the Power Suit.

Furthermore, the only rapid change that Samus' design made was from Metroid to Metroid 2, when they changed her hair color. Then the blond hair, ponytail, and Zero Suit followed. As changes go, it's pretty gradual.

Finally, your complaints about the sexualization of her character seem more suited to her depiction in Brawl. A noble goal, but seven years too late.

Fine; I concede on the point of Peaches HAIR changing color. However, beyond that they didn't suddenly make her thinner, make her hair longer, give her a bigger bust and stuck her in a pair of stripper heels.

And I'm saying this: high heels are ONLY for sex appeal. They literally have NO other purpose beyond sex appeal. They aren't functional; ask ANY woman and they'll tell you as much. They made them big and clunky to try and HIDE the fact that that is all high heels are good for. A bad job of it too.

Actually, when peach was made into a character in smash bros she was made given a significantly more "sexual" model, including a figure that actually had breasts. Seriously, go look at the models from sunshine, galaxy, and 3d world compared to the smash bros models. She is also wearing significantly taller heels. So yes, they did suddenly make her thinner, give her a bigger bust, and put her in stripper heels.

 

[Gearran]

You know, after looking over the screenshots posted on the Smash Bros. page, I'm kind of interested to see how the heels work. I'm not gonna talk about what's already been beaten to death here (sexualization of a woman dressed in a skin-tight suit, as if she needed any help, ahem) or how awkward heels are to move around in. I'm looking more on how they appear to be a piece of equipment. In one of the screenshots, they're clearly sporting jump jets (maybe a little support for the OP's thought on the heels serving as jet ports?), while in another she's doing a flying jump kick complete with some sort of energy impact flash (which, to be fair, may just be the game's impact graphic, but it almost looks like a rocket flare).

Now, why am I talking about this at all? Well, because the heels look more like equipment to me than fashion accessories. Yes, they're clearly open heels, but look a little closer. They look like they're crafted out of armor plates, a look that those glowing yellow lights amplify. The fastenings around the ankles look more like something you'd find on body armor than a fashion piece, and the heel itself appears to be significantly thicker than what you'd normally find on a pair of high heels (to me, at least; not being someone who wears such things, I can't be certain), which kind of makes me think more of platforms than plain high heels. The heels even look as if they may be able to pivot, which might suggest that they're intended to be worn "flat" when inside the Varia suit, then pivot down when out of it.

 

[otakon17]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

1. I wasn't attempting to patronize anyone, I apologize if it came off like that.
2. I wasn't claiming they were sexy /and/ ugly. I'm saying they made it that way to BE sexy but it looks ugly.
3. That wasn't Peach, that was Daisy you're thinking about. And I'm talking about MAJOR design changes over just fine-tuning/refining the character. Now, in this case Samus' suit has more or less been the same the entire time; it's the person INSIDE the suit that they've so radically changed over the years. And the thing was, it wasn't a gradual change either. It was rather rapid compared to like, Mario or Link.

As a quote from a friend who knows a bit about fashion in general:
makes their legs look longer, results in thinner silhouette, since they force the back to arch it pushes their breasts and butt outwards, which accentuates the wearer's feminimity, thus making them more traditionally attractive

So, there you go.

No, it WAS Peach. In Super Mario 1, 2, and 3, she had brown hair. She even had brown hair in the tv show, for crying out loud.

And the heels were obviously not made for sex appeal. If they were, don't you think they would've been made...sexier? Do you really think the designers considered them the sexiest they could make? No, they purposefully made them big, clunky, and industrial-looking. Kind of like the Power Suit.

Furthermore, the only rapid change that Samus' design made was from Metroid to Metroid 2, when they changed her hair color. Then the blond hair, ponytail, and Zero Suit followed. As changes go, it's pretty gradual.

Finally, your complaints about the sexualization of her character seem more suited to her depiction in Brawl. A noble goal, but seven years too late.

Fine; I concede on the point of Peaches HAIR changing color. However, beyond that they didn't suddenly make her thinner, make her hair longer, give her a bigger bust and stuck her in a pair of stripper heels.

And I'm saying this: high heels are ONLY for sex appeal. They literally have NO other purpose beyond sex appeal. They aren't functional; ask ANY woman and they'll tell you as much. They made them big and clunky to try and HIDE the fact that that is all high heels are good for. A bad job of it too.

Actually, when peach was made into a character in smash bros she was made given a significantly more "sexual" model, including a figure that actually had breasts. Seriously, go look at the models from sunshine, galaxy, and 3d world compared to the smash bros models. She is also wearing significantly taller heels. So yes, they did suddenly make her thinner, give her a bigger bust, and put her in stripper heels.

Spoiler: Mod edit: Please use spoilers when posting large images

Sunshine:

Galaxy 2:

3D World:

Now, compared to her Super Smash Bros. models.

They made her taller. As for the heels, they don't matter really in her case because of her large gown that hides her legs. As for the "larger bust" and "thinner", nah. I don't see it, she's moderately endowed at best from the looks of things. They suddenly didn't toss her into a skin tight outfit with 8 inch heels however.

 

[furthestshore]

Wait, wait, wait. This is sexualized? A full body combat suit?

With enlarged breasts, a beauty mark, and high heels? Yes. Absolutely. She's undergone a slow but progressive sexualization.

Have we really gotten to a point where high heels are now sexist?

We've been there for a couple hundred years. We have written records going back over 250 years ago of doctors urging the public to stop wearing high heels because they're unhealthy. Since then we've just built up more and more evidence that they're bad for you, while also getting plenty of evidence as to why they stick around - they are not just sexualized, they're one of the most commonly sexualized objects. So you've got something we know is bad for women's health, and which we know has stuck around because it's considered sexy, and they're constantly being put on fictional women, who never show any injuries resulting from them, feeding the public belief that high heels are perfectly normal and harmless. Yes, they're sexist.

What about Raiden?

What about him? Why do people keep bringing him up? What, precisely, do you think you prove when you go "what about Raiden"? Do you think nobody made fun of his high heels? If you missed that, you were lucky, because there was no shortage of bad insulting jokes about his heels and what some people thought they implied. But there's no widespread fashion trend of men wearing high heels, so he's not really feeding into a public health nuisance, and to be completely blunt Raiden's a relatively minor footnote in gaming history (and even "footnote" is exaggerating his importance). Samus is either the key female hero in gaming history, or at least in the top ten.

Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things?

Yes. I'm baffled by this attitude that a character's design isn't itself part of their characterization. Putting someone in ridiculous cartoony impractical unhealthy sexualized clothing absolutely influences how the character is perceived.

All right, just want to nip this in the bud:

Yes, it would be stupid for an actual fighter to wear high heels. It would also be stupid for an actual ape to wear a tie, and for an actual plumber to jump 30 feet in the air. It's a videogame. You can do that!

Yes, you can. And those things are not equal. Donkey Kong and Mario are less serious characters than Samus. You can drop an anvil on Bugs Bunny (who's running around naked) and have him turn into an accordion. You think people would be cool with that happening to Solid Snake? And you're saying it's okay for game developers to keep pushing a harmful trend because hey, the character they're using to push it is fictional, not like she'd get hurt. That's missing the point.

Wow there Tex. You can't use logic in an internet, feminism debate.

"Anyone who disagrees with me is just an illogical feminist," eh? Ad hominem attacks are never conductive for the healthy sharing of opinions.

When me and my friends used to play Tekken we used to remark on how badass it was that Nina could do all those crazy kicks in high heels.

Yeah, people said the same thing about cigarettes. Some still do.

Samus' high heels don't look very sexy

They're high heels, something research has shown to be one of the most commonly fetishized objects. If the design doesn't ring your bell, fine, but putting a woman in high heels is sexualizing her.

Designed to be functional

"High heels" are about as far from "designed to be functional" as it gets.

completely no-frills

High heels are a frill themselves.

I don't think accusations of sexualisation are warranted in this case.

Scientific research strongly suggests you are incorrect.

I really don't see how adding high heels = sexualisation. Is that how high heels work?

Yes. High heels throw off a woman's balance, causing exaggerated hip-swinging that appears to be more sexually arousing for men. That in term seems to have resulted in people subconsciously learning to associate high heels with sexuality.

To be honest, the Zero - Suit in and of itself always struck me as mild fanservice to begin with.

Agreed. It would be nice if we could get rid of it and go back to the days when Samus took off her armor at the end of the game and had a whole wardrobe of different things she might wear, but it's unlikely we can unring this bell. The best we can hope for is probably to get the suit shown less, and to get rid of the newest additions to her design.

They look to me like they'll function the same way Chell's Advanced Knee Replacements work in the Portal games and don't look any less practical.

Valve would cry if they heard you say that. They really would. Go look at what she wore in Portal. It was a couple of struts attached right below her knee, not her heel, while she was running around barefoot. They were bizarre braces, and they were put in as the clearest possible example of function leading to form - Valve wanted something to let her handle falls and jumping, and the struts were what they eventually came up with. But they were making every effort to avoid sexualizing Chell, wanting the player to view her as a "test subject," not a beautiful or sexy woman. In Portal 2 they tried to make the longfall boots look like the next logical step, with the struts STILL sticking out right under her knee, not her heel. Considering they made a specific effort to avoid sexual markers like high heels, they'd be pretty horrified to see Chell's design being used to justify Samus'. They couldn't be further apart in intent. Chell's legwear was added because Valve had a gameplay mechanic in mind and tried to invent fictional equipment to provide an in-game explanation. Samus had high heels slapped on because they're sexy, and for SB we were told "there's some rockets in there" to try to justify them.

The high heels in the most recent design are either a continuation of what the zero suit has always been about

Sure. They've been screwing her up a little at a time. That doesn't mean we shouldn't say "enough is enough" and try to push back against this nonsense.

Surely you know exactly why that's not a valid point.

It's an extremely valid point. Having Mario in high heels would not fit his depiction. For all the people going "what does it matter what she wears?" it's a simple fact that what a character is shown wearing influences how the character is viewed. Samus was initially portrayed as someone that wore her exceptionally practical armor while working, but was able to take it off and relax after work. It was nicely done, and she looked like a practical and pragmatic individual who was still human enough to be able to enjoy R&R. We've gone from her wearing (by sci-fi standards) extremely strong and sensible looking armor to her being increasingly portrayed in an extremely impractical latex catsuit with high heels, which are just about the height of frivolity and impracticality.

And to answer you more directly, if you remove her characterization in Other M, the only personality trait Samus has is being a woman.

You seem to be unfamiliar with the material, and have a vague notion that Samus was a generic silent protagonist whose personality wasn't elaborated upon in anything. That's incorrect. Metroid itself just gave us the basic idea that she was a bounty hunter, a lone wolf. Not much there, no. Metroid II added the first wrinkle by showing her sparing the hatchling. Itoh's comic (published in Nintendo Power to supplement Super Metroid) gave us a little backstory, establishing that she was an orphan raised by the Chozo, and she worked a bounty hunter not out of love of money but because it was the only way to fight the pirates while remaining independent of the incompetent Galactic Federation. Nintendo ended up embracing that in future material. Fusion characterized her heavily, driving home that she couldn't stand following orders. She listened to the AI Adam for a while because it was a stipulation for getting a new ship, but when she thought the computer's orders were stupid she ignored them. She felt fear (a deep dread, actually) but didn't let it slow her down. And she could be introspective, talking about how she kept being reborn. The manga elaborated her personality and background some more, detailing her upbringing with the Chozo and history with Mother Brain (her "step-sister") and the manga was at least loosely canon since it got scenes referencing it in Fusion and Zero Mission. The Prime games used excellent use of body language to portray her as someone that tried to keep her emotions from showing, with relatively subtle (but VERY clearly intentional) body language being what let us know she was feeling grief and rage. If you want to debate how much personality was there, or if it was good, fine. That's a matter of taste and opinion. Saying that she had no personality at though? That's just something we can prove is untrue.

If you wish to complain about Other M, you have come to the wrong thread.

No, this is the right thread all right. Sexualizing Samus by making her shorter, "prettier" (right down to a beauty mark), more frivolous and impractical (high heels) goes hand in hand with turning her into a damsel in distress. It was not a coincidence that Samus was written the worst she's ever been in the game that sexualized her more than ever and gave us the high heels and beauty mark.

Nintendo has done the proper thing when it comes to making the Zero Suit more commonly used

The proper thing would be to not make it more commonly used.

 

[Lilani]

If you wish to complain about Other M, you have come to the wrong thread. For most here, the main strategy is to ignore Other M, and I choose to do the same. (Although, to be fair, I can draw a few parallels between Fusion and Other M.)

I beg your pardon? If we're going to talk about Samus' agency as a character, I'm afraid we're going to have to talk about Other M. It happened, it exists, and Nintendo has only been building on its mistakes since then. You were just talking about Samus' character development in other games in your previous post, you can't just ignore the Other M because it's an example of negative character development.

I, too, was uncomfortable with the gratuitous Zero Suit when it was first introduced - in 2004 - but it made sense then, as it suggested vulnerability, and so fit with the narrative. And so far, Nintendo has done the proper thing when it comes to making the Zero Suit more commonly used - that is to say, make it look more like an actual garment.

But AGAIN, if they wanted to make Samus appear vulnerable there are a million ways they could have done so without making a catsuit. Look at what FemShep wears when she isn't in her space suit in Mass Effect. Yes it's skin tight in some areas, sometimes many, but there are other things built into it that make it more utilitarian than gratuitous. Her boobs aren't given needless individual cups, there are pockets and other such handy things, and it is looser in some spots to make it practical and not so uncomfortable. There's a fine line between "vulnerable" and "needlessly gratuitous," and the Zero Suit crossed that line for no reason at all and at the expense of Samus' previously established character traits.

Again, we all hate Other M, but if you want to come here and complain about it some more, you are barking up the wrong tree, missy.

And if you're going to opt to ignore Other M because it debunks everything you THINK has happened with Samus in her recent history, then I see no point in furthering this discussion. I don't know what sort of discussion you think you walked into, but I'll damned before I let you just shove under the rug the things you can't think of excuses for.

And to discuss something you wrote to someone else for a moment, no, Nintendo DIDN'T try to hide the "sexiness" of the high heels. If they didn't want Samus to appear to be wearing heels, they would have not stuck her in heels. They would have just given her rocket boots. But they did give her heels, because they're more interested in giving her "girly" accessories than giving her practical ones. Fuck's sake, just look at the position of her ankles in those things. They'll snap like a twig if she lands on those wrong. Samus was established as a bounty hunter who uses only practical weapons and tools which do not sacrifice utility or safety for elegance or aesthetics. All of that has gone out the window with those ridiculous heels.

 

[JediMB]

No, it WAS Peach. In Super Mario 1, 2, and 3, she had brown hair. She even had brown hair in the tv show, for crying out loud.

Well, in SMB1 she was a redhead. In SMB2 she used her Doki Doki Panic equivalent's palette, and then the American cartoons and SMB3 apparently used that as the basis for their designs.

That said, she was blonde in the 1986 anime, which predates SMB2 by two years and the Super Show by three.

EDIT: And apparently promotional material connected to SMB1 had her with her now-iconic pink dress and blonde hair, for what it's worth.

 

[JediMB]

In Metroid Zero mission some of the endings actually show her in non combat situations (walking through a city, hanging out in a bar, etc) and she is still wearing skin tight clothing, only now it is short shorts and a midriff exposing top. Apparently she just like dressing that way, at least according to Zero Mission.

I will agree that removing the armor was incredibly stupid, though I do give Zero Mission credit for having a mandatory stealth section in an action game that is actually entertaining.

To me, Zero Mission really was the game where the franchise started heading in the wrong direction. I'll admit I enjoyed the Zero Suit stealth section of the game (it was quite thrilling), but it didn't take long before I grew to resent the game. Everything from the way they designed the intentional sequence breaking to the extra story, the Zero Suit and the way Samus was portrayed in the game's unlockable artwork... it just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[otakon17]

Although amusing to watch people try to justify Nintendo's tendency to create convoluted means to strip Samus of her armour and have her parade around in a leotard as anything but desperate pandering, I much prefer to bury my head in the sand and pretend anything outside of Super Metroid, Fusion and the Prime trilogy as non-canon.

For me Samus is a 6'3 muscular blonde amazon in power-armour.

You. I like you. You speak with sense.

 

[DrOswald]

Although amusing to watch people try to justify Nintendo's tendency to create convoluted means to strip Samus of her armour and have her parade around in a leotard as anything but desperate pandering, I much prefer to bury my head in the sand and pretend anything outside of Super Metroid, Fusion and the Prime trilogy as non-canon.

For me Samus is a 6'3 muscular blonde amazon in power-armour.

Well, you can believe that, I am all for headcanon if it makes the game more enjoyable for you, but Samus has never been depicted as a muscular blonde amazon. There is that one piece of concept art connected to Super Metroid (which doesn't even make her look very muscular) but in the actual game she is a stick figure. This is also true in the Prime series and Fusion. And Samus has retained her height throughout the changes made to her (the guys who made Other M messed it up, but they messed everything up. They made Ridley a pokemon, for example.) Thats why she was used to point out how small Little Mac is - she is the tallest humanoid character on the Smash Bros roster.

In Metroid Zero mission some of the endings actually show her in non combat situations (walking through a city, hanging out in a bar, etc) and she is still wearing skin tight clothing, only now it is short shorts and a midriff exposing top. Apparently she just like dressing that way, at least according to Zero Mission.

I will agree that removing the armor was incredibly stupid, though I do give Zero Mission credit for having a mandatory stealth section in an action game that is actually entertaining.

To me, Zero Mission really was the game where the franchise started heading in the wrong direction. I'll admit I enjoyed the Zero Suit stealth section of the game (it was quite thrilling), but it didn't take long before I grew to resent the game. Everything from the way they designed the intentional sequence breaking to the extra story, the Zero Suit and the way Samus was portrayed in the game's unlockable artwork... it just rubbed me the wrong way.

Fair enough.