Zero Suit Samus has a great character model

[JediMB]

In addition, at the beginning of Super Metroid she describes the baby Metroid as "like a confused child" and then immediately turns it over to be studied and dissected by scientists.

Well... she apparently stayed with the hatchling for long enough that the researchers could determine the extent of its energy generation capabilities, as well as extract and secure DNA samples for the federation. Ridley attacked the station and activated its self-destruct protocols mere minutes after she left.

Third, she works outside the normal societal roles. All other human combatants in the Metroid franchise are male.

This is a bit inaccurate, actually. One of the dead federation soldiers in Metroid Prime 2 was a woman who idolized Samus.

Seventh, she is concerned with her appearance, at least a little. She has always had very long hair despite the inherent difficulties this would cause when using a helmeted armor suit (it would be far more practical for her to cut her hair short) and she has changed hair color several times (it seems she is a natural blond based on the fact that she is most often depicted blond, but she has been shown to have brown and green hair at other times.)

Well, Samus had long hair when she lived with the Chozo (see: the Metroid manga), so there could be a bit of nostalgia behind her choice to keep it that way. She has only been seen with short hair during her pre-Chozo childhood and while she served in the Galactic Federation military. And her hair actually doesn't get in the way since she "morphs" into her armor.

Furthermore, her hair colors in the original Metroid game are unlikely to be canonical, since they were a result of the NES's limited palettes.

Eighth, she has little sense of modesty (or just really likes strutting her stuff.) Everything we ever see her wear (pre Metroid: Other M) except for her power suit, even in normal civilian situations, is form fitting and often midriff exposing. She gets more modest as the series progresses (she starts out wearing little better than underwear or leotards, moves onto hot pants and cropped tops, and eventually starts wearing a full covering bodysuit.) This may have something to do with her upbringing by bird people. It might be that their concept of modesty may not be the same as ours and she has had to learn that it isn't ok to walk around practically naked.

Well, the thing about her outfits in the original four main-series Metroid games is that they're the kind of things one might expect someone to wear beneath a suit of power armor. She had no reason to wear proper clothes because, as seen in the Super Metroid opening, she keeps her armor on even while interacting with her federation allies.

Then we got Zero Mission, where she--for no reason whatsoever--decided to remove her armor before even exiting what was clearly pirate-controlled space... and someone on the dev team apparently decided that basically painting her skin blue was much better than having her running around in a sports bra and panties. (And I guess this retcons away all the outfits we saw in her previous games.)

 

[Snotnarok]

Here's a brilliant thought, why doesn't she use her power armor boots? Say she salvages them or whatever, now she has armored boots for better/harder kicking and that have built in functions such as higher & double jump.

It kinda ruins the point of her being zero suit Samus if she is able to use her suit. If she's able to salvage the boots then why not salvage the arm cannon or the torso? Also it's pretty obvious that the heels aren't actually part of the suit so I'd assume she'd put them on affter the suit comes off so I'm not sure why the design specs matter at this point.

Ruins the point of her being in her zero suit? The point of her being in it is catastrophic malfunction of her suit and her priority was always to run to find a place to hide or replacement. Which was once.

Why not the arm cannon or torso? One would assume they would be much too heavy to effectively wield without the support of the suit to counteract weight and powering said devices. The boots are likely to have weight negating features as they allow her to jump high regardless of the weight of the suit, and then double jump and high jump.
That's the problem the heels don't fit, they don't fit the design and they don't fit in the suit in a way she could hide them, it's not like she has a glove box on the thing. They honestly could have just given her original Zero Suit some sort of boosters or some nonsense but instead they strap really stupidly designed high heels to her that don't fit design wise or in any other way- they're out of place in so many ways I'm surprised anyone is defending them- other than it's Nintendo and they always have defenders regardless of how stupid their decision is.

Why does it matter? it doesn't in the long run but as I stated this is simply frustrating that Nintendo has NO idea what to do with the series; as it's been made clear by the long stretches of time with no Metroid game before Retro Studios came along and resurrected the series and then Nintendo took control Other M and now this stupidity in Smash Brothers.

They are incapable of doing something with their female protagonist or the series who's widely regarded as one of the finest female heroes.

The point of Zero Suit Samus is to show that she won't just lie down and die if she loses the Power Suit.

If we are going to "assume" things then I am going to "assume" that the boots are either too dangerous to use without the rest of the suit for reinforcement or that they cannot be used unless the suit is whole. I can also assume that the boots themselves are too heavy and stiff without the power source that comes from the suit.

Is it really too hard to imagine that the heels aren't actually part of the Zero Suit and that she stores them in her ship or something? And isn't your complaint that they don't fit inside the Power Suit? Wouldn't boosters that are actually attached to the Zero suit make even less sense? And so what if the color doesn't match with the suit? do you really expect someone like Samus to be picky about colors?

People defend this decision because people complain about it it's a cycle that will never end. The decision is stupid for you because it isn't what you want from Samus but for other people it isn't a big deal especially since it's happening a in a non canon game.

Why would the boots be too dangerous to use? They don't do anything dangerous except lift higher, this is the Varia suit moment in Other M here. Nothing dangerous but better keep that thing in check. The point is moot. She stores her high heels in her ship, so her suit explodes, she runs back to her ship and instead of getting a powersuit she gets some new kicks for no reason? Okay. Why not then have combat boots made for fighting and rocket boosting instead of these heels then? They'd be better in every single way.

No, my complaint is that heels in combat are retarded, there's no nicer way to put it, lower grip, likely to get stuck in ground, 10x more likely to break your ankles on top of this they look stupid and there's no place she'd store them. Call them space heels and have tech to stop that and it's just countered with why waste space and tech invested in countering stupid inappropriate equipment in combat and just WEAR something sensible? No, I kind of expect Samus to use things that fit the situation. Not sure what you meant there, I meant put boosters in her actual Zero Suit footwear, something similar to her chozo tech.

Okay, so let's take Mario and give him giant boots to make sure he can double jump they'll be silver and they have speakers on the sides, Bowser now gets robot claws, Fox fights with a pink biker helmet on. While we're at it all those Fire Emblem characters are going to need heels and platform boots, all of them ,this way they're taller so their swords can be swung in wider arcs without hitting the ground. Who cares about character accuracy it's just a fighting game, but she's doing wild things so she needs these heels right?

No people defend it because it's Nintendo and they know better because they're making the game right? This being reflected by their incompetence in Other M and this game now. People like me call people out on this because it's dumb, we have enough girls wearing heels in fighting games- you know MOST OF THEM, so a little variety and common sense is nice in characters. Heels don't make sense in combat, they're dumb for not just Samus but anyone and defending them doesn't make sense because ANY footwear in combat including barefoot is a better idea than wearing something that's likely to break your own ankles.

Like other people defending this, I'm not really seeing anything detailing any advantage or why they're the better idea to anything else, just "hey they could work probably" because there's nothing to defend, heels don't work in combat, it's a bad idea and saying "it looks good" doesn't even work because they look like nerf guns.

If we are still assuming things then I can assume that the boots would launch her too high without the weight of the power suit to back her up or they plain won't work without the rest of the suit. The point was that if she is completely unable to get her Power Suit (like in Zero Mission, until she got a new one) then she has something else to use in tandem with the Paralyzer. I don't know why she doesn't get combat boots instead (other than the fact that we don't know if they exist in universe or not).

Did you ever consider that these super high tech future high heels might have been the best design for what they do? the angle that her feet are at could be a more space saving design than just putting the rockets on a flat surface. they'd probably end up looking more like platform shoes if they were made to look more like combat boots. And I still don't understand how she would store boosters in the actual power suit if they were actually attached to the zero suit.

Sounds interesting. it's something different at the very least and I welcome it. I'm not playing this game for pixel perfect representations of them in a non canon video game. They could pull a Bad-Box Art Mega Man and I'd wonder what he would bring into the game and not sit around getting pissed at how he isn't what I wanted out of a character. And if you are going to complain about character accuracy then look at Ness, Lucas, and Zelda. Ness and Lucas unable to actually learn the majority of their PSI skills and none of the moves Zelda uses actually work the way they do in Super Smash bros.

I'm pretty sure that the world we live in isn't your world and people can defend whatever they like for their own reasons and not the reason that you make up for them. And unless you give me a list of the ratio of high heeled fighters to every other type of shoe in fighting games i'm going to have to assume you are exaggerating for effect.This isn't about common sense or variety if it was then you'd be giving actual examples of instead of just modified versions of what she was already wearing. or at the very least give me more specific examples. Would rocket sandals be a better idea than heels? rocket Cowboy Boots? rocket mukluks? maybe rocket geta or rocket foot-wraps?

There are a-lot of thing in this game that don't work in combat and yet they still do. You are only applying the "it won't work in real life" deal because you don't like the idea but you don't question how your own ideas would work in universe because you made them up and have no reason to object to them.

You may as well not respond to any of this since it's pretty clear neither of us are going to budge an inch on or stances and we'll just keep "assuming" why one thing will or won't work. I'm sticking to my stance that the heels add something to Samuses' play style and aren't a big deal and you can stick to your opinion that they are terrible in every way.

I already addressed that, that's impossible, even if you would suggest they have tech to overcome the obstacles of high heels being shit for combat that's wasted space that could be used for other things. You're seriously suggesting that a pair of boots with boosters on the back designed for harder kicks and hovering would be less ideal than those ankle breakers?

Two characters who are entirely accurate can't use a massive library of moves that would only clutter a list?

I'm not saying people can't have their own opinions, I'm all for that- however it's not debatable that heels are BAD for combat, they're barely good for walking, go try a pair on- they're not easy to walk in, now I'd say throw a kick but I really don't want you snapping your ankle or spraining anything just to confirm this- really don't please. I'm only saying that- any form of boot or power-armor boot would be better because that's just how it is, heels are NOT very mobile and suggesting they have special tech in them is weak- just don't use the heels and use that wasted space for something else.

I'm not applying real life to the game, I'm applying logic to one of the few that follows some form of sense- I'm not saying get Peach out of heels, she's a cartoon character and abides by that logic. I'm not against heels if they FIT- much like Golden Ax's bikini wearing Tyrus Flare- tottally cool because we understand the campy logic behind the art style. Guys in speedos, girls in bikinis and this is fighting gear- kay got it, let's beat up some goblins.


That's a really lame thing to do, state your side, tell the other person they're wrong, give reasoning then tell me to be on my merry because you don't want to hear it.
Let me argue your stance: The heels add nothing to Samus's play style because they could be better designed or just not used- they are a big deal in the light of Nintendo clearly thinks there's nothing wrong with Other M if they're pushing this kind of shitty designs and fans like you defending such things is only going to lead to more Other M's coming out.

Again, I am against this idea because it shows Nintendo have learned NOTHING from when they took the reins back from Retro Studios and made Other M, nothing was done right in that game, especially not the story and character development. Yes, I'm aware this is supposed to be like that Samus which does boggle the mind, I'd just rather them treat the character sanely than do really stupid things. Is it a big deal in the scope of things? No but I'm an artist and seeing this stupid design does grate me the wrong way.
I want them to do right and the only way to do that is to point out that something is wrong and this is pretty ugly in the face of a character they've shown endlessly they don't know what to do with. I don't even have plans to get Smash Brothers- I just want them to learn from stupid decisions and make a new game in time that has the same level of depth and immersion that is the Metroid series.

 

[DrOswald]

In addition, at the beginning of Super Metroid she describes the baby Metroid as "like a confused child" and then immediately turns it over to be studied and dissected by scientists.

Well... she apparently stayed with the hatchling for long enough that the researchers could determine the extent of its energy generation capabilities, as well as extract and secure DNA samples for the federation. Ridley attacked the station and activated its self-destruct protocols mere minutes after she left.

She hung out at the station for a while it would seem, but she still handed off the hatchling without hesitation. She had just got finished wiping out an incredibly dangerous predatory species, she was probably taking a day or three on the space station to relax after completing the mission.

Third, she works outside the normal societal roles. All other human combatants in the Metroid franchise are male.

This is a bit inaccurate, actually. One of the dead federation soldiers in Metroid Prime 2 was a woman who idolized Samus.

I forgot about her. I have only played MP2 once. But one soldier in so many, and that single female soldier idolizing the only other known combatant female, still points to the idea that war is generally the business of men in that universe.

Seventh, she is concerned with her appearance, at least a little. She has always had very long hair despite the inherent difficulties this would cause when using a helmeted armor suit (it would be far more practical for her to cut her hair short) and she has changed hair color several times (it seems she is a natural blond based on the fact that she is most often depicted blond, but she has been shown to have brown and green hair at other times.)

Well, Samus had long hair when she lived with the Chozo (see: the Metroid manga), so there could be a bit of nostalgia behind her choice to keep it that way. She has only been seen with short hair during her pre-Chozo childhood and while she served in the Galactic Federation military. And her hair actually doesn't get in the way since she "morphs" into her armor.

Possibly, but she does tie it up into a pony tail when wearing the armor and then lets it down when not wearing the armor (Super Metroid) so there is at least a little inconvenience there. Also, just so I am clear, I am not saying she is the type to worry about a broken nail or she is dolling herself up specifically to be sexy, just that she does care about her personal appearance a little bit, even if it is only for herself.

Furthermore, her hair colors in the original Metroid game are unlikely to be canonical, since they were a result of the NES's limited palettes.

I know that, but I really like the idea that Samus went through a punk phase and dyed her hair green.

Eighth, she has little sense of modesty (or just really likes strutting her stuff.) Everything we ever see her wear (pre Metroid: Other M) except for her power suit, even in normal civilian situations, is form fitting and often midriff exposing. She gets more modest as the series progresses (she starts out wearing little better than underwear or leotards, moves onto hot pants and cropped tops, and eventually starts wearing a full covering bodysuit.) This may have something to do with her upbringing by bird people. It might be that their concept of modesty may not be the same as ours and she has had to learn that it isn't ok to walk around practically naked.

Well, the thing about her outfits in the original four main-series Metroid games is that they're the kind of things one might expect someone to wear beneath a suit of power armor. She had no reason to wear proper clothes because, as seen in the Super Metroid opening, she keeps her armor on even while interacting with her federation allies.

Then we got Zero Mission, where she--for no reason whatsoever--decided to remove her armor before even exiting what was clearly pirate-controlled space... and someone on the dev team apparently decided that basically painting her skin blue was much better than having her running around in a sports bra and panties. (And I guess this retcons away all the outfits we saw in her previous games.)

In Metroid Zero mission some of the endings actually show her in non combat situations (walking through a city, hanging out in a bar, etc) and she is still wearing skin tight clothing, only now it is short shorts and a midriff exposing top. Apparently she just like dressing that way, at least according to Zero Mission.

I will agree that removing the armor was incredibly stupid, though I do give Zero Mission credit for having a mandatory stealth section in an action game that is actually entertaining.

 

[Nazulu]

I hate them, that is all.

For all those bashing the heels for being impractical or for being out of character, explain to me how crushing every bone in your body to become basketball sized and fit into small holes is practical

The ball is larger than it looks and from this silly analysis of the morph-ball we can see it would actually work. Whether it is useful or not in the real world is another story.

Ugh. I find that guys in depth analysis impressive sometimes, but some of his jokes are painful, and in this video he didn't get all the info this time surprisingly.

A couple of years after beating Super Metroid the first time, I read a little booklet that got from somewhere that explained Samus's Suit, and the point of the morph ball was to avoid being seen and bypass defenses. It's actually meant to be smaller than what the games show us, small enough to travel through holes and cracks that are hard to spot. Metroid Prime also explained this, I think. I'm guessing they just want us to use our imaginations.

 

[Erttheking]

Second she is emotionally unattached, possibly emotionally repressed. We know this because of a few of the tactics she uses (she defaults to a Total War strategy) without even batting an eye. Further more, she has no qualms or hesitation about killing former allies (Metroid Prime 3.

I'm gonna have to disagree with that one, considering that she does indeed seem distressed over killing the other hunters, considering that she looks away while Dark Samus is absorbing the last one while she clenches her fist in rage. Also, the 75% ending is her silently reflecting on their deaths. You make good points with the other ones though.

 

[DrOswald]

Second she is emotionally unattached, possibly emotionally repressed. We know this because of a few of the tactics she uses (she defaults to a Total War strategy) without even batting an eye. Further more, she has no qualms or hesitation about killing former allies (Metroid Prime 3.

I'm gonna have to disagree with that one, considering that she does indeed seem distressed over killing the other hunters, considering that she looks away while Dark Samus is absorbing the last one while she clenches her fist in rage. Also, the 75% ending is her silently reflecting on their deaths. You make good points with the other ones though.

Good points, but not exactly against what my intention was there. My bad for being unclear. I didn't mean that she is completely unemotional, but she never lets emotions get in the way of doing what needs to be done. She will kill former allies without hesitation if they turn on her (even if they are being controlled by a malicious force.) That doesn't mean she does not wish there had been a better way.

 

[Radoh]

Snippity snaps

Wow man, that's a solid list right there, saves me the time, well done.
Although much like erttheking I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one there, since from what I've seen she has quite a bit of fervor when it comes to certain things; calling X parasites abominations that need to be destroyed for one, and immediately chasing down to kill Ridley in Metroid Prime 1 for the other as my two prime examples.
Edit: And then you went and clarified before I could post this. Whoops.

OT: So the Zero Suit serves a simple function right? It's the undersuit for the oversuit sorta thing, so why in the hell would she be wearing heels in the suit? That'd be the equivalent of wearing heels inside of boots for crying out loud, it makes no sense at all.

 

[DrOswald]

Snippity snaps

Wow man, that's a solid list right there, saves me the time, well done.
Although much like erttheking I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one there, since from what I've seen she has quite a bit of fervor when it comes to certain things; calling X parasites abominations that need to be destroyed for one, and immediately chasing down to kill Ridley in Metroid Prime 1 for the other as my two prime examples.
Edit: And then you went and clarified before I could post this. Whoops.

No, your point is well made. I may have to reevaluate.

OT: So the Zero Suit serves a simple function right? It's the undersuit for the oversuit sorta thing, so why in the hell would she be wearing heels in the suit? That'd be the equivalent of wearing heels inside of boots for crying out loud, it makes no sense at all.

Like it has been said before, I think the point of the heels is that they are emergency backup equipment, like the stun gun/electric whip thing. She probably has a small locker in her ship that contains backup equipment if her suit fails for any reason. Remember, in this game the zero suit is not a morph of Samus but an entirely different character option. They are not part of the zero suit any more than the gun.

 

[Radoh]

Snippity snaps

Wow man, that's a solid list right there, saves me the time, well done.
Although much like erttheking I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one there, since from what I've seen she has quite a bit of fervor when it comes to certain things; calling X parasites abominations that need to be destroyed for one, and immediately chasing down to kill Ridley in Metroid Prime 1 for the other as my two prime examples.
Edit: And then you went and clarified before I could post this. Whoops.

No, the point is well made.

OT: So the Zero Suit serves a simple function right? It's the undersuit for the oversuit sorta thing, so why in the hell would she be wearing heels in the suit? That'd be the equivalent of wearing heels inside of boots for crying out loud, it makes no sense at all.

Like it has been said before, I think the point of the heels is that they are emergency backup equipment, like the stun gun/electric whip thing. She probably has a small locker in her ship that contains backup equipment if her suit fails for any reason. Remember, in this game the zero suit is not a morph of Samus but an entirely different character option. They are not part of the zero suit any more than the gun.

Hmm, I don't know about that though, because the whole point of being able to be Zero Suit Sam in Brawl was so that she wasn't as bulky and was far more maneuverable, so much so that I would play against a friend of mine who would regularly opt to just ignore the suit entirely. Throwing heels on Mobile Samus Asswhooper just seems to undermine the point, even if they might act as a better double jump function.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion.

 

[DrOswald]

Snippity snaps

Wow man, that's a solid list right there, saves me the time, well done.
Although much like erttheking I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one there, since from what I've seen she has quite a bit of fervor when it comes to certain things; calling X parasites abominations that need to be destroyed for one, and immediately chasing down to kill Ridley in Metroid Prime 1 for the other as my two prime examples.
Edit: And then you went and clarified before I could post this. Whoops.

No, the point is well made.

OT: So the Zero Suit serves a simple function right? It's the undersuit for the oversuit sorta thing, so why in the hell would she be wearing heels in the suit? That'd be the equivalent of wearing heels inside of boots for crying out loud, it makes no sense at all.

Like it has been said before, I think the point of the heels is that they are emergency backup equipment, like the stun gun/electric whip thing. She probably has a small locker in her ship that contains backup equipment if her suit fails for any reason. Remember, in this game the zero suit is not a morph of Samus but an entirely different character option. They are not part of the zero suit any more than the gun.

Hmm, I don't know about that though, because the whole point of being able to be Zero Suit Sam in Brawl was so that she wasn't as bulky and was far more maneuverable, so much so that I would play against a friend of mine who would regularly opt to just ignore the suit entirely. Throwing heels on Mobile Samus Asswhooper just seems to undermine the point, even if they might act as a better double jump function.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion.

I was talking more in a purely in universe explanation of what the heels are and their purpose.

 

[Radoh]

additional snippy snaps

Extraneous equipment thrown on to opt for a different fighting style sans suit seems reasonable enough I guess, though I still don't understand the functionality of the bracelets in that case.
Also if that is the case then you'd expect her to have something bigger than the hold-out pistol/whip like a rifle or something.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

1. I wasn't attempting to patronize anyone, I apologize if it came off like that.
2. I wasn't claiming they were sexy /and/ ugly. I'm saying they made it that way to BE sexy but it looks ugly.
3. That wasn't Peach, that was Daisy you're thinking about. And I'm talking about MAJOR design changes over just fine-tuning/refining the character. Now, in this case Samus' suit has more or less been the same the entire time; it's the person INSIDE the suit that they've so radically changed over the years. And the thing was, it wasn't a gradual change either. It was rather rapid compared to like, Mario or Link.

As a quote from a friend who knows a bit about fashion in general:
makes their legs look longer, results in thinner silhouette, since they force the back to arch it pushes their breasts and butt outwards, which accentuates the wearer's feminimity, thus making them more traditionally attractive

So, there you go.

No, it WAS Peach. In Super Mario 1, 2, and 3, she had brown hair. She even had brown hair in the tv show, for crying out loud.

And the heels were obviously not made for sex appeal. If they were, don't you think they would've been made...sexier? Do you really think the designers considered them the sexiest they could make? No, they purposefully made them big, clunky, and industrial-looking. Kind of like the Power Suit.

Furthermore, the only rapid change that Samus' design made was from Metroid to Metroid 2, when they changed her hair color. Then the blond hair, ponytail, and Zero Suit followed. As changes go, it's pretty gradual.

Finally, your complaints about the sexualization of her character seem more suited to her depiction in Brawl. A noble goal, but seven years too late.

 

[Lilani]

First of all, people are complaining that the character has now been 'too sexualized.' This is, in fact, stupid, since Samus has been sexualized in almost every game she's been in. For every 2D game, the faster you complete the game, the more undressed she is in the ending cinematic. Hell, she was even guilty of this in Brawl. Think about the first scene you see her in - dropping down from some air vent, the camera panning over her backside before we even see her face. My non-Nintendo cousins saw this and immediately started laughing at my attempts to explain, no really, she's a badass. So I fail to see how this is any worse.

Until her Zero Suit days, Samus' power suits have been purely utilitarian. They weren't designed to accentuate her feminine features, hell the only way she could have been identified as a female at first was when the suit was off. Which was a great thing unique to Samus: one of the few mech suits worn by a female to come out of Japan that didn't have big metal boobs or simulated high-heels. Looking at it that way, this is rather a step backward for her style.

Secondly, the heels really aren't that sexy. They're big, clunky, and look like a utilitarian piece of gear. Which they are. I remember hearing someone say that if you have rocket boots, a high heel makes sense, since you need a tube for the flames to shoot down. That may not have been the reasoning the designers had, but the point remains that the shoes seem like a standard powerup. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up in the next Metroid game.

Whether or not that particular set of heels is sexy isn't the point. Heels are a style of footware designed with only aesthetics in mind, they aren't practical at all and are downright dangerous to the wearer. Again, it's a step backward from the all-business, no-fluff style that has always been a factor in Samus' design.

Third - and I don't see a lot of people making this point - this new Zero Suit Samus is a really good character model. I'm serious, the design improves on a lot of flaws from Brawl. For example, in Brawl, the Zero suit looked just like it had in Zero Mission, its inception - an undergarment, something you wear so the Power suit doesn't get all sweaty. However, this begs the question of why you would wear such an armor into battle, as you only use it in Zero Mission when you have no other choice. The new Zero Suit looks a lot more functional, with the jet boots offering a strong offensive (no pun intended) capability. Also, the suit itself has a more intricate design, with multiple different colors to give the impression that it might actually be something you could wear in situations other than near total incapacitation. Aesthetically, it's a very streamlined design with a unique appeal. I thought the same thing with Rosalina as I thought here - it's a shame Nintendo doesn't make many new character designs, they're really good at it.

The problem with Zero Suit Samus wasn't just the Zero Suit. It was the fact that her character's agency was completely sapped from that game on top of the--as compared to her previous garments--rather gratuitous nature of the suit that brings so much hate. Nobody's arguing it's poorly modeled or shaded, it's that when they finally bothered "improving" upon Samus' character and design they made her a whiny little ***** in a painted on cat suit.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

if you remove her characterization in Other M, the only personality trait Samus has is being a woman. There's not too many ways to take that.

...
Being a woman is a personality trait?

We do know some stuff about her. One, she was raised by alien birds. Two, she spends most of her time alone running around the galaxy exploring alien worlds. She has chosen a solitary lifestyle.

Those are things that inform character.
Why would she be 'traditionally feminine'? Or try to appear sexy? Especially in battle?

So...

What is Mario's personality, then?
Apart from being male, of course. (Which would naturally mean his shirt should occasionally disappear)

Well, that's simple. Mario is upbeat and cheerful about the job he does, whooping in joy with every jump. He's not too complex, but some subtle things slip through now and then. In Dark Moon, for example, when he is saved by Luigi, he immediately showers praise on his brother, proud and willing to give credit where it is due. In the RPGs, he often jumps at the chance to have Bowser join his cause, bearing no grudges whatsoever. In Sunshine, he's immediately willing to put his vacation on hold to help the Piantas, harboring no resentment against the people who wrongly jailed him in a phony trial.

In short, he's pretty plain, but still has one clear personality trait that sets him apart from most: optimism. You wouldn't see Link doing a little celebratory dance every time he solves a puzzle. It may be small, but it's crucial to his character

 

[Matthew Jabour]

First of all, people are complaining that the character has now been 'too sexualized.' This is, in fact, stupid, since Samus has been sexualized in almost every game she's been in. For every 2D game, the faster you complete the game, the more undressed she is in the ending cinematic. Hell, she was even guilty of this in Brawl. Think about the first scene you see her in - dropping down from some air vent, the camera panning over her backside before we even see her face. My non-Nintendo cousins saw this and immediately started laughing at my attempts to explain, no really, she's a badass. So I fail to see how this is any worse.

Until her Zero Suit days, Samus' power suits have been purely utilitarian. They weren't designed to accentuate her feminine features, hell the only way she could have been identified as a female at first was when the suit was off. Which was a great thing unique to Samus: one of the few mech suits worn by a female to come out of Japan that didn't have big metal boobs or simulated high-heels. Looking at it that way, this is rather a step backward for her style.

Secondly, the heels really aren't that sexy. They're big, clunky, and look like a utilitarian piece of gear. Which they are. I remember hearing someone say that if you have rocket boots, a high heel makes sense, since you need a tube for the flames to shoot down. That may not have been the reasoning the designers had, but the point remains that the shoes seem like a standard powerup. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up in the next Metroid game.

Whether or not that particular set of heels is sexy isn't the point. Heels are a style of footware designed to look good, they aren't practical at all and are downright dangerous to the wearer. Again, it's a step backward from the all-business, no-fluff style that has always been a factor in Samus' design.

Third - and I don't see a lot of people making this point - this new Zero Suit Samus is a really good character model. I'm serious, the design improves on a lot of flaws from Brawl. For example, in Brawl, the Zero suit looked just like it had in Zero Mission, its inception - an undergarment, something you wear so the Power suit doesn't get all sweaty. However, this begs the question of why you would wear such an armor into battle, as you only use it in Zero Mission when you have no other choice. The new Zero Suit looks a lot more functional, with the jet boots offering a strong offensive (no pun intended) capability. Also, the suit itself has a more intricate design, with multiple different colors to give the impression that it might actually be something you could wear in situations other than near total incapacitation. Aesthetically, it's a very streamlined design with a unique appeal. I thought the same thing with Rosalina as I thought here - it's a shame Nintendo doesn't make many new character designs, they're really good at it.

The problem with Zero Suit Samus wasn't just the Zero Suit. It was the fact that her character's agency was completely sapped from that game on top of the--as compared to her previous garments--rather gratuitous nature of the suit that brings so much hate. Nobody's arguing it's poorly modeled or shaded, it's that when they finally bothered "improving" upon Samus' character and design they made her a whiny little ***** in a painted on cat suit.

Let me disagree with you on that last point. The Zero Suit has actually been improving her agency steadily over the years.

Let's start with Super Metroid. Samus wears her power suit for virtually the whole game, but when she dies, it's stripped from her and we see her in bits of a torn suit, lying prone. The message is clear: without the power suit, she's toast.

Next, Zero Mission. This game featured an extended segment in which Samus loses her suit and is forced to sneak her way through a pirate ship to regain it in only her Zero Suit. She's vulnerable, but still clearly capable, proving that under that suit, there's still a powerful person.

After that, Brawl improved even farther. Samus spent the first half of her role in the singleplayer in her Zero Suit, searching for the Power Suit once again. Not only is she given a new weapon, she singlehandedly (all right, there's a Pikachu with her, but he's hardly Adam) fends off not one, but two clones of Dark Samus. This is a much more obvious metaphor: it's not the suit, but the person within, that kicks ass.

Now, this has been further cemented. The Zero Suit looks more like an actual garment, and she has a powerful new weapon. (That weapon happens to be high heels, but it still looks pretty strong.) Now we've seen the true purpose of Zero Suit Samus realized: Just because I'm out of the suit doesn't mean I won't kick your ass. To me, it seems like a pretty positive development.

 

[Lilani]

Let me disagree with you on that last point. The Zero Suit has actually been improving her agency steadily over the years.

Let's start with Super Metroid. Samus wears her power suit for virtually the whole game, but when she dies, it's stripped from her and we see her in bits of a torn suit, lying prone. The message is clear: without the power suit, she's toast.

Next, Zero Mission. This game featured an extended segment in which Samus loses her suit and is forced to sneak her way through a pirate ship to regain it in only her Zero Suit. She's vulnerable, but still clearly capable, proving that under that suit, there's still a powerful person.

After that, Brawl improved even farther. Samus spent the first half of her role in the singleplayer in her Zero Suit, searching for the Power Suit once again. Not only is she given a new weapon, she singlehandedly (all right, there's a Pikachu with her, but he's hardly Adam) fends off not one, but two clones of Dark Samus. This is a much more obvious metaphor: it's not the suit, but the person within, that kicks ass.

Now, this has been further cemented. The Zero Suit looks more like an actual garment, and she has a powerful new weapon. (That weapon happens to be high heels, but it still looks pretty strong.) Now we've seen the true purpose of Zero Suit Samus realized: Just because I'm out of the suit doesn't mean I won't kick your ass. To me, it seems like a pretty positive development.

You're compartmentalizing all of these things to avoid the larger issue. You can't just ignore how gratuitously the Zero Suit is designed because she can still kick ass in it, it isn't overwritten or excused. In fact, that's the epitome of gratuitously designed females in games: kicking ass with all the lady lumps put on display as blatantly as possible. And her decrease in agency comes from her whiny, melodramatic moments and her needing to authorize everything with Adam.

Having an emotional character would have been alright, except they should have at least TRIED to make it at least a LITTLE congruent with the previous games. In the past, her expressions of emotion were limited to a shaking of the fist. But regardless, it never interfered with her ability to complete her mission. In Other M she's crying all over the place and being a petulant little child at every turn. It's exasperating, and impossible to imagine any other Samus from any other game behaving in such a way.

I have no problem with them wanting to give her a character and get her out of the power suit. But her alternative suit didn't have to be so gratuitous, and her character didn't have to devolve from a character capable of single-handedly liberating an entire planet to a crybaby who can't wipe her ass with a new brand of toilet paper until her commanding officer gives her the go-ahead.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

Let me disagree with you on that last point. The Zero Suit has actually been improving her agency steadily over the years.

Let's start with Super Metroid. Samus wears her power suit for virtually the whole game, but when she dies, it's stripped from her and we see her in bits of a torn suit, lying prone. The message is clear: without the power suit, she's toast.

Next, Zero Mission. This game featured an extended segment in which Samus loses her suit and is forced to sneak her way through a pirate ship to regain it in only her Zero Suit. She's vulnerable, but still clearly capable, proving that under that suit, there's still a powerful person.

After that, Brawl improved even farther. Samus spent the first half of her role in the singleplayer in her Zero Suit, searching for the Power Suit once again. Not only is she given a new weapon, she singlehandedly (all right, there's a Pikachu with her, but he's hardly Adam) fends off not one, but two clones of Dark Samus. This is a much more obvious metaphor: it's not the suit, but the person within, that kicks ass.

Now, this has been further cemented. The Zero Suit looks more like an actual garment, and she has a powerful new weapon. (That weapon happens to be high heels, but it still looks pretty strong.) Now we've seen the true purpose of Zero Suit Samus realized: Just because I'm out of the suit doesn't mean I won't kick your ass. To me, it seems like a pretty positive development.

You're compartmentalizing all of these things to avoid the larger issue. You can't just ignore how gratuitously the Zero Suit is designed because she can still kick ass in it, it isn't overwritten or excused. In fact, that's the epitome of gratuitously designed females in games: kicking ass with all the lady lumps put on display as blatantly as possible. And her decrease in agency comes from her whiny, melodramatic moments and her needing to authorize everything with Adam.

Having an emotional character would have been alright, except they should have at least TRIED to make it at least a LITTLE congruent with the previous games. In the past, her expressions of emotion were limited to a shaking of the fist. But regardless, it never interfered with her ability to complete her mission. In Other M she's crying all over the place and being a petulant little child at every turn. It's exasperating, and impossible to imagine any other Samus from any other game behaving in such a way.

I have no problem with them wanting to give her a character and get her out of the power suit. But her alternative suit didn't have to be so gratuitous, and her character didn't have to devolve from a character capable of single-handedly liberating an entire planet to a crybaby who can't wipe her ass with a new brand of toilet paper until her commanding officer gives her the go-ahead.

If you wish to complain about Other M, you have come to the wrong thread. For most here, the main strategy is to ignore Other M, and I choose to do the same. (Although, to be fair, I can draw a few parallels between Fusion and Other M.)

I, too, was uncomfortable with the gratuitous Zero Suit when it was first introduced - in 2004 - but it made sense then, as it suggested vulnerability, and so fit with the narrative. And so far, Nintendo has done the proper thing when it comes to making the Zero Suit more commonly used - that is to say, make it look more like an actual garment.

Again, we all hate Other M, but if you want to come here and complain about it some more, you are barking up the wrong tree, missy.

 

[otakon17]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

1. I wasn't attempting to patronize anyone, I apologize if it came off like that.
2. I wasn't claiming they were sexy /and/ ugly. I'm saying they made it that way to BE sexy but it looks ugly.
3. That wasn't Peach, that was Daisy you're thinking about. And I'm talking about MAJOR design changes over just fine-tuning/refining the character. Now, in this case Samus' suit has more or less been the same the entire time; it's the person INSIDE the suit that they've so radically changed over the years. And the thing was, it wasn't a gradual change either. It was rather rapid compared to like, Mario or Link.

As a quote from a friend who knows a bit about fashion in general:
makes their legs look longer, results in thinner silhouette, since they force the back to arch it pushes their breasts and butt outwards, which accentuates the wearer's feminimity, thus making them more traditionally attractive

So, there you go.

No, it WAS Peach. In Super Mario 1, 2, and 3, she had brown hair. She even had brown hair in the tv show, for crying out loud.

And the heels were obviously not made for sex appeal. If they were, don't you think they would've been made...sexier? Do you really think the designers considered them the sexiest they could make? No, they purposefully made them big, clunky, and industrial-looking. Kind of like the Power Suit.

Furthermore, the only rapid change that Samus' design made was from Metroid to Metroid 2, when they changed her hair color. Then the blond hair, ponytail, and Zero Suit followed. As changes go, it's pretty gradual.

Finally, your complaints about the sexualization of her character seem more suited to her depiction in Brawl. A noble goal, but seven years too late.

Fine; I concede on the point of Peaches HAIR changing color. However, beyond that they didn't suddenly make her thinner, make her hair longer, give her a bigger bust and stuck her in a pair of stripper heels.

And I'm saying this: high heels are ONLY for sex appeal. They literally have NO other purpose beyond sex appeal. They aren't functional; ask ANY woman and they'll tell you as much. They made them big and clunky to try and HIDE the fact that that is all high heels are good for. A bad job of it too.

 

[DrOswald]

Look, I haven't read everyone's comments but hear me please:

It's okay to like the design but PLEASE don't lie to defend you liking it. We all like shitty stuff now and then, just be honest about it.

If you like it because, hey she's hot to you, go for it.

Me, I prefer Samus when she was a purple haired 6 foot 3 inch amazon weighing in at near 200lbs.

Look at her there, she's good looking but not this effete little super model that Nintendo made her into.

Compared to this:

Then this:

What other reason would they have to redesign her, in my eyes, so RADICALLY different from her original looks other than sex appeal? Shorter, much more "feminine" curves and a visibly larger bust and the heels are just icing on the cake. Mario hasn't changed much since his inception, Link either. Sonic, Kirby and several others have for the most part remained looking the same as their original designs when they first appeared for the most part. Hell even Zelda hasn't changed that much.

But if you were to compared Samus' original design out of the suit to the one now, and showed them to people not familiar with the series; they'd think they were completely different characters.

Once again, it's alright to like the new design, just don't lie in you defense in saying it hasn't become sexualized. Because it has. Not only that, but the giant neon yellow heels clash like hell with the rest of her if you ask me.

Don't patronize me.

I like the design because it is, in fact, a good design, not because it is sexy. I like Rosalina's design, too, and that's probably the least sexual design out there. To me, it looks cool, and is definitely an improvement over the monochrome outfit she had in Brawl.

The fact of the matter is, character designs change a lot over the years. Originally, Peach had brown hair, Yoshi had a rounder back, and Link often changed appearance from game to game. And the newer designs are almost unilaterally better than the older ones.

Oh, and by the way, you can't simultaneously claim that the heels are both sexy and ugly. Those two are not compatible (with the exception of Mileena, and that character was clearly a joke.)

1. I wasn't attempting to patronize anyone, I apologize if it came off like that.
2. I wasn't claiming they were sexy /and/ ugly. I'm saying they made it that way to BE sexy but it looks ugly.
3. That wasn't Peach, that was Daisy you're thinking about. And I'm talking about MAJOR design changes over just fine-tuning/refining the character. Now, in this case Samus' suit has more or less been the same the entire time; it's the person INSIDE the suit that they've so radically changed over the years. And the thing was, it wasn't a gradual change either. It was rather rapid compared to like, Mario or Link.

As a quote from a friend who knows a bit about fashion in general:
makes their legs look longer, results in thinner silhouette, since they force the back to arch it pushes their breasts and butt outwards, which accentuates the wearer's feminimity, thus making them more traditionally attractive

So, there you go.

No, it WAS Peach. In Super Mario 1, 2, and 3, she had brown hair. She even had brown hair in the tv show, for crying out loud.

And the heels were obviously not made for sex appeal. If they were, don't you think they would've been made...sexier? Do you really think the designers considered them the sexiest they could make? No, they purposefully made them big, clunky, and industrial-looking. Kind of like the Power Suit.

Furthermore, the only rapid change that Samus' design made was from Metroid to Metroid 2, when they changed her hair color. Then the blond hair, ponytail, and Zero Suit followed. As changes go, it's pretty gradual.

Finally, your complaints about the sexualization of her character seem more suited to her depiction in Brawl. A noble goal, but seven years too late.

Fine; I concede on the point of Peaches HAIR changing color. However, beyond that they didn't suddenly make her thinner, make her hair longer, give her a bigger bust and stuck her in a pair of stripper heels.

And I'm saying this: high heels are ONLY for sex appeal. They literally have NO other purpose beyond sex appeal. They aren't functional; ask ANY woman and they'll tell you as much. They made them big and clunky to try and HIDE the fact that that is all high heels are good for. A bad job of it too.

Actually, when peach was made into a character in smash bros she was made given a significantly more "sexual" model, including a figure that actually had breasts. Seriously, go look at the models from sunshine, galaxy, and 3d world compared to the smash bros models. She is also wearing significantly taller heels. So yes, they did suddenly make her thinner, give her a bigger bust, and put her in stripper heels.