National Guard called into Minneapolis

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tstorm823

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The fact that you actually believe that to be true is only proving my point for me. The women's March actually serves a purpose here...
No, no it doesn't. It was literally a protest a day after Trump's inauguration, and every year since has lost the enthusiasm, because that's what is was about.
 

Seanchaidh

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This kind of pop-sociobiology often tries to present humans as werewolves, as superficially intelligent beings who are, in fact, driven and guided by deep animalistic rage. It's true that being human can be confusing, and sometimes you don't feel in control of yourself, but that's not because of your brutish tribal instinct, it's because you are a complex, social, emotional being with a lifetimes worth of learned information. Whether it feels that way or not, you can entirely control whether you are racist, or whether you are violent, and if you (hypothetical you here) are these things, it is likely because you have weighed up the situation and decided that it benefits you in some way, even if that process wasn't conscious. That's what humans do, they learn and adapt. It's their most distinctive evolutionary feature by far.
A lifetime's worth of learned information, yes, and often material and social conditions which are just plain rage-inducing in themselves.
 

lil devils x

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No, no it doesn't. It was literally a protest a day after Trump's inauguration, and every year since has lost the enthusiasm, because that's what is was about.
Riiiiiight, because apparently you know more than the people who organize it and march in it apparently. Just because you want to claim it means something does not actually mean that is what it means. The people who organized ALREADY let us know what they were marching for, you just had to listen. Do you not remember what had happened right right before that? More than a quarter of Women's health clinics closed in the US:
A quarter of US abortion clinics have closed down in the last five years, a new report from Bloomberg Business has found.
The report, by Esmé Deprez, counts at least 162 abortion clinics that have closed down or stopped offering the procedure since 2011, affecting access for 30.5 million women. The single greatest factor was new legislation.
In the same time period, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a thinktank that supports abortion rights, conservatives swept into power in the 2010 election have helped pass more than 1,000 new abortion restrictions.

And since then this has only gotten much worse, not better:


But yea, who notices what they are actually asking for when it is peaceful, even if it was the largest single day protest in US history.
The goal of the annual marches is to advocate legislation and policies regarding human rights, women's rights, immigration reform, healthcare reform, reproductive rights, the environment, LGBTQ rights, racial equality, freedom of religion,] workers' rights and tolerance. "

Where is the legislation they have been asking for? Oh yea.. No one noticed that part right? That is how effective peaceful protests have been.
 

lil devils x

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No, no it doesn't. It was literally a protest a day after Trump's inauguration, and every year since has lost the enthusiasm, because that's what is was about.
AND Yea, you still ignored the actual topic at hand about police reform while also dismissing what the people who organized the largest single day protest in US history actually have been asking for this entire time. They keep having large peaceful protests, nothing they ask for has happened.
 

Seanchaidh

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I mean, what is the purpose of looting here? On the face of it it does not sound like it's a principled thing or someone who is an ally to the cause so much as someone who saw an opportunity.
Often, looted goods are distributed to people who need them in the surrounding communities. Often they are taken by people who need them in the first place- people who are solving an immediate problem by taking whatever good that they otherwise couldn't get their hands on. Sometimes it's a mix of both. Absolutely, on the face of it with a capitalist ideological mindset, you're going to jump to "someone saw an opportunity" to exploit because that's what capitalism forces people to do. But that's not what a riot is fundamentally about and the capitalist context that normally pervades all thought is only vaguely around the riot; within riots there is often displayed quite a lot of solidarity. It's not just street medics treating tear gas and other maladies, it's other forms of mutual aid which, yes, includes communities taking what they need from their immediate surroundings and distributing it intelligently (quelle surprise) without a market.
 

tstorm823

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AND Yea, you still ignored the actual topic at hand about police reform while also dismissing what the people who organized the largest single day protest in US history actually have been asking for this entire time. They keep having large peaceful protests, nothing they ask for has happened.
I didn't ignore anything, I allowed it to stand uncontested. If you would like to claim this list of vague platitudes and euphemisms is a solid and serious policy aim, you're reaching. If you say the timing was coincidence, you're joking.
 

Trunkage

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So, did anyone think things would ever be this bad under Trump?
I didn't ignore anything, I allowed it to stand uncontested. If you would like to claim this list of vague platitudes and euphemisms is a solid and serious policy aim, you're reaching. If you say the timing was coincidence, you're joking.
Because timing invalidates everything, right. That's how it works. It has nothing to do with it partly criticizing Trump therefore is part of the greater conspiracy that's trying to take him out.

By the way, what you saying is called spin. I thought that was bad. Maybe stop listening to what people think happened and go talk to the people involved
 

XsjadoBlayde

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There is so much wrong with all this, the police are out of hand, wtf do they think this will accomplish acting out? Are they trying to fulfill a kkk/white supremacist fantasy of fueling a race war? How many are hardened trump supporters I wonder. Violently targeting the press seems like a very trump-inspired tactic.
Then there's this thread, detailing their kettling, because of course they can;

They're trying to silence this so bad through authoritarian force. Can't let them succeed.
 

lil devils x

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I didn't ignore anything, I allowed it to stand uncontested. If you would like to claim this list of vague platitudes and euphemisms is a solid and serious policy aim, you're reaching. If you say the timing was coincidence, you're joking.
You realize that statement has been greatly expanded over the years as minority women felt left out of the original message so it has grown to include more issues. If you actually delve deeper, you will see the policy issues reproductive rights and violence against women such as:
We believe in Reproductive Freedom. We do not accept any federal, state or local rollbacks, cuts or restrictions on our ability to access quality reproductive healthcare services, birth control, HIV/AIDS care and prevention, or medically accurate sexuality education. This means open access to safe, legal, affordable abortion and birth control for all people, regardless of income, location or education.
They have been focusing primarily on voting efforts and lobbying for legislation they want implemented to assist with their goals For example:


What about coincidental timing? Nothing is a coincidence, it is a direct response to the actions that have been taken. They cut women's health services, people get pissed because they lost access to health services. They attack immigrants, people get pissed as immigrants are harmed from the attacks. It isn't coincidental, it is a direct response to actions being taken. Just like a cop kneeling on a man's neck for the world to see, and people get pissed because of the harm done here. There is a reason for all of these things happening.
 

tstorm823

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So, did anyone think things would ever be this bad under Trump?
Because timing invalidates everything, right. That's how it works. It has nothing to do with it partly criticizing Trump therefore is part of the greater conspiracy that's trying to take him out.

By the way, what you saying is called spin. I thought that was bad. Maybe stop listening to what people think happened and go talk to the people involved
I posted their mission statement. Did you find lil devils description of events in there? I don't think you did.
 

lil devils x

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So, did anyone think things would ever be this bad under Trump?
Because timing invalidates everything, right. That's how it works. It has nothing to do with it partly criticizing Trump therefore is part of the greater conspiracy that's trying to take him out.

By the way, what you saying is called spin. I thought that was bad. Maybe stop listening to what people think happened and go talk to the people involved
I knew it was going to be bad under Trump. Some may remember some of what I posted when he won the republican primary on here at the time and people thought I was exaggerating what he would do when I said that he would fire and replace those who disagree with him or failed to comply, and so he did. He did and he did and he did and keeps burning through official after official who refuses to comply with his unethical demands, burning through all the watchdogs and people who are supposed to safeguard the people from a corrupt administration, burning through generals who refuse to comply. Even his " yes men" are not " yes men enough for Trump. He has gone through so many more than I thought even possible tbh.

I thought it would be bad, but honestly, not even what I already knew of Trump prepared me for just how bad it would be. It was so much worse than I said it would be, I didn't expect as many republicans to fall in line as they did. I did not expect that after McCain died, that all of those who stood with him would be sucked right up into Trumps bunghole. I had hoped for more resistance from his previously vocal opposition, but no, they clammed right up and fell in line and now we have the monster they helped create becoming worse by the day. Who could have imagined he would try to spin him being responsible for over 100,000 unnecessarily dead Americans as being a "good thing", that he would be so vain as to use the military against peaceful US citizens. I didn't think he would have been so reckless to turn over policy to his unqualified son in law or completely eliminate logic, reason, expertise, or science from his decision making and guidance and instead rule by his " whims" of his self appointed "genius brain". It is honestly frightening when you listen to what the people who have attempted to keep the country safe under his administration have then come out and told us about how he is dangerously running things and the lives of nations are in this man's reckless and incompetent hands right now. His " best people" he claimed to have hired to work for him are the ones telling us he is dangerous and incompetent. I was not expecting that to happen at the rate it has, I thought " maybe it wouldn't be so bad if he just lets the experts run things and lets them make him look good. The problem with trump though is every time an expert gets good press, he gets insanely jealous of their popularity and then messes everything up instead. This keeps happening and is getting worse the more this goes on. Look what he did to Fauci, Fauci made him look good, then Trump got jealous and took over and didn't want Fauci talking anymore and thought telling people injecting disinfectant made him look " smart". When that backfired, he didn't want to do the briefings anymore at all then and wanted to pretend the pandemic was over. This is insanity. Even scarier is even after all of this, he STILL has people who will vote for him. Madness.
 

lil devils x

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I posted their mission statement. Did you find lil devils description of events in there? I don't think you did.
That was copy/pasted from their mission statement, keep scrolling down. in the link you provided. You stopped reading too soon.
 

tstorm823

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That was copy/pasted from their mission statement, keep scrolling down. in the link you provided. You stopped reading too soon.
Nah, I didn't see that post before saying that. I was referring to post #643, and you ninja'd me. Apologies for the miscommunication.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Why are you ignoring the excessive force problem here.

And quite frankly why does it matter *where* they get called in to? When called into a poor black neighborhood they should still be expected not to be racist. The problem is their ability to get away with it, no real consequences means they don't have to adjust their behavior
You are assuming that it is inherent that the police are racist. Let me ask you a series of questions, I do not expect you to answer them, this is meant to maybe have you understand what my problem with this assumption is.

How many police officers are there in the USA? How many police precincts are there in the USA? What is the distribution of these numbers between the states? What are the criteria for being able to become a police officer? How many people try to become a police officer? How many people actually become one? How many people quit soon after becoming a police officer? What kinds of people become a police officer? What is the racial make up of these different precincts? How many of these people are racists before becoming a cop? How many are racists after becoming a cop? How many cops are with the KKK? What does a cop usually do day to day? How often does each precinct deal with violence? What is the city or town like at these precincts deal with violent crime? How often is a cop suspected of wrong doing in the line of duty? What kind of wrong doing are they suspected of? How often are they convicted? How often was the verdict false? When you hear about someone receiving injury or death at the hands of a cop, who is the cop dealing with? What kind of crime was the person suspected of? What was the situation they were in during the event? How often is a cop killed in the line of duty and by what means we're they killed? Same question but instead for a criminal or falsely accused criminal? How often does the media report on one of these kinds of incidents happening in the same precinct repeatedly? Does the race of the officer change the answer to any of these questions? How long have officers involved in these incidents been a police officer? Were they ever part of or suspected if these kinds of incidents before the publicized one? How often does the media report on incidents like these? How often do cops interact with black people? How often does misconduct occur in these interactions? When does the media talk about cops doing something wrong and how often compared to when they don't talk about it? What rules do you believe are being practiced by the police that lead to institutionalized racism? How often do police use force to enforce the law and of those times how often is the force unwarrented or excessive? How often do these incidents result in permenant bodily harm or death? How long does it take to investigate these insidents? How much do you know about police officers? What are the rules for police officers? What kinds of people are they before, during, and after their years of service? How many people will think about this incident after the media stops covering it? What is the race of the people that stop talking about it? Who will actually do something or attempt to do something about such an incident?

Perhaps all these questions will give you some kind of understanding of my thoughts in regards to this.
 

Kwak

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Around 6:20 p.m. on Monday, a person called in to the police radio describing a crowd of protesters marching toward the 77th Precinct in Brooklyn.

In the clip, a person says: "Shoot those motherf---ers."

"Don't put that over the air," another person replies.

In a second clip, someone describes a group of protesters marching toward an intersection in Brooklyn. "Central, we have a group of people blocking traffic on Albany and Dean street," the person says. "They're refusing to ... go eastbound on Dean Street and Albany, so we're stuck here."

Another person replies: "Run them over."
 

Samtemdo8

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This thread is talking about this whole situation beyond just the National Guard thing right?
 
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Eacaraxe

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You are assuming that it is inherent that the police are racist. Let me ask you a series of questions, I do not expect you to answer them, this is meant to maybe have you understand what my problem with this assumption is.
Let me start with this:


Watch from about 26:45 in. That's a cop talking, and he lays the whole problem out, you just have to have the capability to add two and two to get there. The job of the police in the US isn't to keep the peace nor protect public interest, it's to build cases for prosecutors, make arrests, and generate revenue for their governments via fines, fees, and bail. Cops don't operate on the presumption of innocence, they operate on the presumption of guilt, because that is how their role within the criminal justice system is structured.

This is the profession informed and educated by idiots like this,


whose curricula is saturated by idiocy like this:


So, you have people whose job depends on them operating on the presumption of guilt, who have been trained to regard even minor encounters as potential threats to their lives, who have been taught that profiling isn't just part of investigatory work but rather their own potential survival. Who think escalation is heroism, and think violence is not just necessary but ideal. You don't have to be some epithet-spewing, hood-wearing, sign-waving, gun-toting, historically-revisionist societal throwback to be the problem.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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You are assuming that it is inherent that the police are racist. Let me ask you a series of questions, I do not expect you to answer them, this is meant to maybe have you understand what my problem with this assumption is.

How many police officers are there in the USA? How many police precincts are there in the USA? What is the distribution of these numbers between the states? What are the criteria for being able to become a police officer? How many people try to become a police officer? How many people actually become one? How many people quit soon after becoming a police officer? What kinds of people become a police officer? What is the racial make up of these different precincts? How many of these people are racists before becoming a cop? How many are racists after becoming a cop? How many cops are with the KKK? What does a cop usually do day to day? How often does each precinct deal with violence? What is the city or town like at these precincts deal with violent crime? How often is a cop suspected of wrong doing in the line of duty? What kind of wrong doing are they suspected of? How often are they convicted? How often was the verdict false? When you hear about someone receiving injury or death at the hands of a cop, who is the cop dealing with? What kind of crime was the person suspected of? What was the situation they were in during the event? How often is a cop killed in the line of duty and by what means we're they killed? Same question but instead for a criminal or falsely accused criminal? How often does the media report on one of these kinds of incidents happening in the same precinct repeatedly? Does the race of the officer change the answer to any of these questions? How long have officers involved in these incidents been a police officer? Were they ever part of or suspected if these kinds of incidents before the publicized one? How often does the media report on incidents like these? How often do cops interact with black people? How often does misconduct occur in these interactions? When does the media talk about cops doing something wrong and how often compared to when they don't talk about it? What rules do you believe are being practiced by the police that lead to institutionalized racism? How often do police use force to enforce the law and of those times how often is the force unwarrented or excessive? How often do these incidents result in permenant bodily harm or death? How long does it take to investigate these insidents? How much do you know about police officers? What are the rules for police officers? What kinds of people are they before, during, and after their years of service? How many people will think about this incident after the media stops covering it? What is the race of the people that stop talking about it? Who will actually do something or attempt to do something about such an incident?

Perhaps all these questions will give you some kind of understanding of my thoughts in regards to this.
Why are you ignoring the excessive force problem here.

I didn't assume they're inherently racist. I said regardless of where they're called in the conduct isn't acceptable. You just entirely ignored my point about the level of force being used not being acceptable regardless.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Why are you ignoring the excessive force problem here.

I didn't assume they're inherently racist. I said regardless of where they're called in the conduct isn't acceptable. You just entirely ignored my point about the level of force being used not being acceptable regardless.
But I wasn't talking about this case. The case with Floyd is clearly misconduct, these riots aren't about Floyd though, his death is just the spark for them.
 
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