Funny events in anti-woke world

[Dwarvenhobble]

One funny quirk of the anti woke crowd had reared its ugly head again. A lot of the time the anti woke crowd gets sincerely convinced that there's some sort of press allegiance that's out to get their preferred media. This despite there being nothing that suggests this.

JournoList

JournoList - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GameJurno Pros

Why would anyone possibly think there was any kind of concerted effort when there has been literal precedent in the form of just that having happened in the past?

Presently the algorithm suggested me some right wing channels that claim the media has it out for Ghost Busters Afterlife because they're still grumpy its not Ghostbusters 2016, or that the media wants to punish Afterlife for ''giving the fans what they want''. Meanwhile the reviews of Afterlife seem to consider it adequate enough. 6-7 out of 10 seems the usual score.

Pretty sure it was The Guardian review of it that literally complained that the film didn't acknowledge the 2016 version and so slated it for not doing so despite the fact the 2016 reboot was a reboot supposed to be set in an alternative universe where there were no Ghostbusters before. But no apparently Afterlife not being a sequel to the 2016 version made it bad.

Ghostbusters: Afterlife review – a slimy, stinking corpse of a sequel

Jason Reitman takes over his father’s franchise and immediately tanks it with a tonally misjudged blend of fan service and bizarrely played-straight spectacle

www.theguardian.com

It's quite comedic the idea that certain woke types talk about how everyone is biased to some extent and unconscious bias etc but no couldn't possibly be happening here right? The film critics are beings of pure objectivity right?

Sorry remember when critics (including Moviebob) were kinda slating Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle because people didn't like The Last Jedi but apparently people were enjoying that film? Then like 5 months on when it was revealed Jumani: Welcome to the Jungle had grossed like $1 Billion and come close to or infact beaten the profits of The Last Jedi that suddenly Bob and a number of other critics were like "Hu, I was really harsh on that film, I was wrong I dunno what got into me, it's a good film"........... yeh.......

And this is in fact really common. You had a bunch of right wingers convinced that the press was out to get Ghost of Tsushima to help prop up TLOU2 despite games media universally showering the game with praise. You had the alt right celebrate Joker and gloat that its success made the press ''mad''. With Cyberpunk too you had the narrative that the press had it out for that game despite it turning out that they weren't nearly critical enough and that they had signed embargoes forbidding them from being too hard on the game.

As a reminder TLOU2 was nominated for almost every possible Game Award it could get and got a slew of GOTY awards.
Ghost to Tsushima had a few outlets trying to claim it was supporting Japanese right wing colonialist attitudes and other such BS.

TLOU2 had people defending Abby are realist and mocking people suggesting she wasn't realistic (See Liana K's 2 videos on why Abby actually doesn't have a realistic physique and don't give me "She's based on a real woman" argument when said woman herself admits she can only maintain her peak physique for like 2 weeks max out of an 8-12 week cycle)
Ghost of Tsushima has bullshit about how it wasn't historically accurate (it never claimed to be) and or supporting the Japanese right wing somehow because fighting off invaders is bad or something.....

Review: Ghost of Tsushima’s Empty World Reflects Its Empty Representation – Uppercut

uppercutcrit.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/10/01/ghost-of-tsushima-reviews-discourse/

Ghost of Tsushima, Kurosawa, and the political myth of the samurai

Unpacking the baggage of well-intentioned homage

www.polygon.com

3 Samurai Game Soundtracks to Bump Instead of Playing Ghosts of Tsushima

Paste Magazine is your source for the best music, movies, TV, comedy, videogames, books, comics, craft beer, politics and more. Discover your favorite albums and films.

www.pastemagazine.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/08/14/like-ghost-tsushima-heres-what-you-may-not-know-about-samurai/

I dunno why anyone would think the game had become the target of Ire eh?

This is perhaps connected by their need to artificially create rivalries between ''woke games'' and ''the true games for true gamers''. They tried to insist that Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 were engaged in a battle for the soul of the medium and if they want to be the underdog it makes sense that they start imagining the press hates Ghost for not being woke....despite that game being far more woke than TLOU2 ever was. They're a really weird bunch.

Fun fact you can still see people raging and I mean raging on twitter to this day that TLOU2 isn't hailed as some grand masterpiece and yelling how it's only due to bigotry and not due to people not enjoying to story and finding issues with how it was done. Meanwhile people aren't mad about Ghost of Tsushima, they're sitting back going "Yeh it's cool this game is getting recognised more and more by people and it's cool to see it being enjoyed and people talk about the nuances of it's design ideas that really innovate on open world design".

The artificially rivalry was made by others. Those who believe that the message is the most important part and wanted to show their dominance of the industry and how it's "Ours now your stupid whiny pissbabies get used to it" and the joke is, they're still mad because TLOU didn't win the fan vote at The Game Awards. It won a ton of other stuff but it not getting that clean sweep has them still throwing tantrums online to this day. I see a good 1-2 a week on twitter still mad.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

It's because they expect the press to be cheerleaders for the things they like and attack dogs going after everything else. After all, they're the only people who matter!

No they just expect some level of consistency and are pretty good at spotting when people are dredging the depths to come up with reasons to criticise a property and spurious grounds.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Not a monoculture. You see, people belong to multiple demographics and according to certain folks being a member of a given demographic means you must have certain specific social and political beliefs. But that demographic isn't a monoculture because one belongs to multiple demographics - for example there are white gays (who believe white things and gay things) and black gays (who believe black things and gay things). This is also why they desperately hate people who have the "wrong" beliefs for their demographics, sometimes going so far as to say they no longer count as a member of their demographics (usually these are conservatives or farther right and belong to one or more demographics that are assigned as being opposed to that political orientation).

I mean, if a gay person supports the "gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry and if we get particularly plucky we'd go back to having being gay in public illegal" party, it's kinda fair for the rest of the gay community to heavily dislike them regardless of any other theoretical political decisions.

Or non-specific-version-of-Christian people watching Flynn proclaim that Christianity should be the religion of American to raucous applause, black conservatives arguing that the only reason more black people aren't conservatives is because they're dumb enough to be brainwashed by obvious lies, etc

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

One funny quirk of the anti woke crowd had reared its ugly head again. A lot of the time the anti woke crowd gets sincerely convinced that there's some sort of press allegiance that's out to get their preferred media. This despite there being nothing that suggests this.

Presently the algorithm suggested me some right wing channels that claim the media has it out for Ghost Busters Afterlife because they're still grumpy its not Ghostbusters 2016, or that the media wants to punish Afterlife for ''giving the fans what they want''. Meanwhile the reviews of Afterlife seem to consider it adequate enough. 6-7 out of 10 seems the usual score.

And this is in fact really common. You had a bunch of right wingers convinced that the press was out to get Ghost of Tsushima to help prop up TLOU2 despite games media universally showering the game with praise. You had the alt right celebrate Joker and gloat that its success made the press ''mad''. With Cyberpunk too you had the narrative that the press had it out for that game despite it turning out that they weren't nearly critical enough and that they had signed embargoes forbidding them from being too hard on the game.

This is perhaps connected by their need to artificially create rivalries between ''woke games'' and ''the true games for true gamers''. They tried to insist that Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 were engaged in a battle for the soul of the medium and if they want to be the underdog it makes sense that they start imagining the press hates Ghost for not being woke....despite that game being far more woke than TLOU2 ever was. They're a really weird bunch.

Culture Wars need two sides, so in order to wage a culture war you have a desperate need to present the other side as being as unreasonable as you. Add in a culture primed to binary thinking with the console wars and the PC master race and you get some very interestingly stupid Venn diagrams.

 

[Cheetodust]

TLOU2 had people defending Abby are realist and mocking people suggesting she wasn't realistic (See Liana K's 2 videos on why Abby actually doesn't have a realistic physique and don't give me "She's based on a real woman" argument when said woman herself admits she can only maintain her peak physique for like 2 weeks max out of an 8-12 week cycle)

The fact that you're going to go with Liana K. on this proves you care more about finding a source that supports what you already believe than a source that knows a good god damn what they're talking about. You could look for an actual source from sports science or a related field.

Like dude, yes athletes' physiques change in the off season but how much do you think they change in terms of muscle mass/fat mass? They will be less lean for sure. But they're not going to lose an appreciable amount of muscle mass if they are training. Like even if Colleen Fotsch is only at "peak" 2 weeks out of 8-12 (what do you even mean by "peak"? I'd like to see the interview where she discusses that) do you think she loses 20lbs of muscle the other 6 to 10 weeks and looks noticeably smaller?
They're still going to look muscular and strong.

At best you could argue that Abby is too lean but even then not really. She likely gets in a more than fair amount of cardio on top of resistance training and staying lean would then mainly be a case of maintaining a high protein diet. Using Fotsch as an example, she's about 170 lbs so around 125 to 150g of protein would be needed to build muscle. We know agriculture exists in abbys community and none of the people look to be starving.


How a person trains also makes a huge difference, training for hypertrophy is different to training for strength. Training with free weights is different to training with machines. Someone who trains as a strength or physique athlete is going to have a different body type to a sprinter who squats to improve lower body strength.

I got noticeably bigger in six weeks of training 1 set of 20 squats 3 times a week than I did in a similar period training in lower rep ranges with 2 upper body and 2 lower body sessions per week. My chest stopped fitting in my shirts and I actually went in a notch on my lifting belt so I lost about an inch around the middle. But my maximal strength didn't improve in the slightest.

And Colleen fotsch isn't even some superhuman freak of nature, she's just a Crossfit athlete. I could throw page after page of Crossfit athletes with comparable physiques at you.

 

[Hades]

GameJurno Pros

Why would anyone possibly think there was any kind of concerted effort when there has been literal precedent in the form of just that having happened in the past?

That doesn't really change that they say its happening where it isn't happening.

Pretty sure it was The Guardian review of it that literally complained that the film didn't acknowledge the 2016 version and so slated it for not doing so despite the fact the 2016 reboot was a reboot supposed to be set in an alternative universe where there were no Ghostbusters before. But no apparently Afterlife not being a sequel to the 2016 version made it bad.

Yup. That sure is a review that's up there alright. But for this while culture war nonsense to work it must be the universal or even the majority opinion in reviews. And it just isn't. The majority opinion seems to be that its a perfectly decent movie. Funny you mentioned Moviebob though because even HE doesn't seem too down on Afterlife.

As a reminder TLOU2 was nominated for almost every possible Game Award it could get and got a slew of GOTY awards.
Ghost to Tsushima had a few outlets trying to claim it was supporting Japanese right wing colonialist attitudes and other such BS.

TLOU2 had people defending Abby are realist and mocking people suggesting she wasn't realistic (See Liana K's 2 videos on why Abby actually doesn't have a realistic physique and don't give me "She's based on a real woman" argument when said woman herself admits she can only maintain her peak physique for like 2 weeks max out of an 8-12 week cycle)
Ghost of Tsushima has bullshit about how it wasn't historically accurate (it never claimed to be) and or supporting the Japanese right wing somehow because fighting off invaders is bad or something.....

Yeah sure. There were some people saying some nonsense like that. But that didn't change the review score for even a tiny bit. Even outlets that mentioned cultural appropriation tended to give the game glowing reviews, something they wouldn't do if they secretly hated the game. By all accounts Ghost was greatly acclaimed by the press that's accused of hating it.

And of course TLOU2 would get a lot of awards. Its the video game equivalent of Oscar bait. Not only that but a lot of those awards seem to be rooted in the politics of the video game awards. Not left vs right politics but the politics of ''give this famous game plenty of awards or you're not getting your funding''. You can even see it this year where despite being a complete laughing stock Cyberpunk is up for awards over far better games like Nier or Neo Twewy. Yet I don't think many alt righters assume the press is secretly in cahoots with Cyberpunk and that they HATE Metroid dread for daring to stand in its way. Because that would be extremely silly.

The artificially rivalry was made by others. Those who believe that the message is the most important part and wanted to show their dominance of the industry and how it's "Ours now your stupid whiny pissbabies get used to it" and the joke is, they're still mad because TLOU didn't win the fan vote at The Game Awards. It won a ton of other stuff but it not getting that clean sweep has them still throwing tantrums online to this day. I see a good 1-2 a week on twitter still mad.

It really isn't because as already demonstrated the press doesn't have it out for Ghost. But meanwhile you've got a lot of alt right gaming channels artificially propping up competition between the two games. And they do that precisely because they HATE the message of TLOU2....no wait scratch that. They do it because they HATE the message they merely think that TLOU2 has.

Because that's the silly thing about that artificial competition propped up between the two games. Its set up by people who HATE TLOU2 for having a message that it does not have and thus acclaim Ghost as a counter of it....despite it being Ghost that has the woke message that they hate. Its truly hilarious. If it was all about the message that in your logic the ''woke'' crowd would have been all over Ghost. It has a message of unity between classes, and rejection of tradition. Meanwhile TLOU2 has a thoroughly apolitical message that revenge is bad m'kay.

The whole ''TLOU2 is a woke game and Ghost is a rejection of that!'' doesn't work because its Ghost that is the woke game while TLOU2 is thoroughly unconventional and apolitical.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

The fact that you're going to go with Liana K. on this proves you care more about finding a source that supports what you already believe than a source that knows a good god damn what they're talking about. You could look for an actual source from sports science or a related field.

Ah yes the ex dancer and ex model Liana K couldn't possibly know anything about specialised diets or anything also ignoring the fact I sourced her because:

1) She's uses actual comments from the actual body model for Abby as part of her argument.
2) She presents the information in an easily digestible form and it's easy to look up and find get through.
3) She's hardly some right wing return of kings loon.

But hey feel free to say why she doesn't count as a source

Like dude, yes athletes' physiques change in the off season but how much do you think they change in terms of muscle mass/fat mass? They will be less lean for sure. But they're not going to lose an appreciable amount of muscle mass if they are training. Like even if Colleen Fotsch is only at "peak" 2 weeks out of 8-12 (what do you even mean by "peak"? I'd like to see the interview where she discusses that) do you think she loses 20lbs of muscle the other 6 to 10 weeks and looks noticeably smaller?
They're still going to look muscular and strong.

Definition changes.
If you want more I pet the videos above.

At best you could argue that Abby is too lean but even then not really. She likely gets in a more than fair amount of cardio on top of resistance training and staying lean would then mainly be a case of maintaining a high protein diet. Using Fotsch as an example, she's about 170 lbs so around 125 to 150g of protein would be needed to build muscle. We know agriculture exists in abbys community and none of the people look to be starving.

Cardio and muscle building are different things and under what is basically organisational rations she wouldn't be maintaining that look. I mean Dwayne Johnson is on like 5 meals a day to maintain his look if anything Abby would look more like old Dwayne Johnson when he was in WWE at best

 

[bluegate]

The whole ''TLOU2 is a woke game and Ghost is a rejection of that!'' doesn't work because its Ghost that is the woke game while TLOU2 is thoroughly unconventional and apolitical.

"Yeah... But Lesbians! Non-sex-identifying character! Butch woman beat manly man man! The writer talked about Anita 'The Boogeyman' Sarkeesian once! *Hysterical screeching*"

 

[Hades]

Quite frankly the question whether Abby's muscles are realistic enough kind of bores me because it hinges on us suddenly playing a massive importance on realism on only a single aspect of the game while refusing to do it at others.

This is a game where mushroom zombies exist. So if we have that then why are muscles on a woman the bridge that cannot be crossed? Just as how the question about how legit female sword fighters are would bore me in settings where people can breathe fire and shoot lightning.

Abby's muscle serves a narrative purpose and that's enough. She trained day and night to kill Joel. That's both where the story of her muscles begin and end.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

That doesn't really change that they say its happening where it isn't happening.

And how do we know it's not?

The only way it was found out before was patterns playing out in the media and people digging into them. People have go very good at spotting those kind of pattersn emerging too.

Yup. That sure is a review that's up there alright. But for this while culture war nonsense to work it must be the universal or even the majority opinion in reviews. And it just isn't. The majority opinion seems to be that its a perfectly decent movie. Funny you mentioned Moviebob though because even HE doesn't seem too down on Afterlife.

Yes I'll give you that. I'll even give you that it's not a majority opinion for people to be slating the film as such which is good to see and who knows maybe it's some indication of the bullshit dying off but then again who knows maybe we'll see Captain Marvel 2 touted as the first female superhero film again or some such nonsense.

Yeah sure. There were some people saying some nonsense like that. But that didn't change the review score for even a tiny bit. Even outlets that mentioned cultural appropriation tended to give the game glowing reviews, something they wouldn't do if they secretly hated the game. By all accounts Ghost was greatly acclaimed by the press that's accused of hating it.

Because they know they get in trouble and become "Wild Cards" in the eyes of publishers if they rock the boat too badly in regards to scores....

And of course TLOU2 would get a lot of awards. Its the video game equivalent of Oscar bait. Not only that but a lot of those awards seem to be rooted in the politics of the video game awards. Not left vs right politics but the politics of ''give this famous game plenty of awards or you're not getting your funding''. You can even see it this year where despite being a complete laughing stock Cyberpunk is up for awards over far better games like Nier or Neo Twewy. Yet I don't think many alt righters assume the press is secretly in cahoots with Cyberpunk and that they HATE Metroid dread for daring to stand in its way. Because that would be extremely silly.

The weird thing is it's game journalists who pick the nominations not the public. I have to admit it makes no sense for Cyberpunk 2077 to be there and I'm just wondering if it's there because it missed last years show and no other reason really like some left over hype or something.

It really isn't because as already demonstrated the press doesn't have it out for Ghost. But meanwhile you've got a lot of alt right gaming channels artificially propping up competition between the two games. And they do that precisely because they HATE the message of TLOU2....no wait scratch that. They do it because they HATE the message they merely think that TLOU2 has.

Except as I showed some outlets were looking for any little thing to fault Ghost of Tsushima on.

Because that's the silly thing about that artificial competition propped up between the two games. Its set up by people who HATE TLOU2 for having a message that it does not have and thus acclaim Ghost as a counter of it....despite it being Ghost that has the woke message that they hate. Its truly hilarious. If it was all about the message that in your logic the ''woke'' crowd would have been all over Ghost. It has a message of unity between classes, and rejection of tradition. Meanwhile TLOU2 has a thoroughly apolitical message that revenge is bad m'kay.

The whole ''TLOU2 is a woke game and Ghost is a rejection of that!'' doesn't work because its Ghost that is the woke game while TLOU2 is thoroughly unconventional and apolitical.

What message was TLOU2 set up as having that it doesn't have again?

Also the Woke crowd aren't exactly known for looking into stuff deeply so with TLOU2 they heard there was a Trans character in it so blindly defending it in a number of cases admitting they never played it in the end eventually. The message is the social message they perceive it as saying in terms of the gaming environment not the actual themes or message of the game itself. This is why I always try to point out progressive and woke are not the same thing.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Quite frankly the question whether Abby's muscles are realistic enough kind of bores me because it hinges on us suddenly playing a massive importance on realism on only a single aspect of the game while refusing to do it at others.

This is a game where mushroom zombies exist. So if we have that then why are muscles on a woman the bridge that cannot be crossed? Just as how the question about how legit female sword fighters are would bore me in settings where people can breathe fire and shoot lightning.

Abby's muscle serves a narrative purpose and that's enough. She trained day and night to kill Joel. That's both where the story of her muscles begin and end.

The Mushroom Zombies are meant to be due to a mutant strain of Cordyceps fungus able to infect humans.

Cordyceps - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So yeh not 100% true to our world but trying to base itself on truth. Literal mushroom zombie insects are a thing in real life.

 

[Hades]

And how do we know it's not?

Because of....the lack of it happening? All these games and movies the press supposedly despises sure don't seem to be suffering in the review department. They're showered with praise, typically win awards or at the very least manage to get passing grades, and then some very thick people start shouting how the evil press is colluding against the media that they aren't even attacking.

Yes I'll give you that. I'll even give you that it's not a majority opinion for people to be slating the film as such which is good to see and who knows maybe it's some indication of the bullshit dying off but then again who knows maybe we'll see Captain Marvel 2 touted as the first female superhero film again or some such nonsense.

Or we'll see Captain Marvel 2 get touted as the arch demon bringing feminism into our media again which is the likelier scenario.

Because they know they get in trouble and become "Wild Cards" in the eyes of publishers if they rock the boat too badly in regards to scores....
Except as I showed some outlets were looking for any little thing to fault Ghost of Tsushima on.

If that was the case then no product ever would get a bad review score. The far simpler explanation is that they showered Ghost with praise because they simply liked it.
And for all those ''little things to fault Ghost on'' they certainly refused to actually fault ghost on. You can bring those aspects up without it meaning you hate the game. An alt right youtuber can adore Persona 5 for being a great game while still wanting to discuss how he doesn't like Shido being a populist demagogue, without it meaning that this causes him to hate Persona. Criticism is more nuanced then that. Evidently every outlet found the positive aspect of Ghost far more important than the aspects they deemed problematic, and they rated it accordingly.

Also the Woke crowd aren't exactly known for looking into stuff deeply so with TLOU2 they heard there was a Trans character in it so blindly defending it in a number of cases admitting they never played it in the end eventually. The message is the social message they perceive it as saying in terms of the gaming environment not the actual themes or message of the game itself. This is why I always try to point out progressive and woke are not the same thing.

Oof. Its like we have an exact mirror of opinion. Because I'd say the anti woke crowd isn't exactly known for looking into stuff so deeply. And I'd argue about the old misunderstanding of Abby maybe being trans already made many blindly determined to hate her, as do her muscles when it turned out she wasn't trans. And what they perceive the game as saying isn't very relevant when the game isn't actually saying that.

I'd certainly say they never looked very deeply into Ghost because if they truly liked Ghost as the say they do then they might have picked up on it themes a long time ago, rather than use it as a symbol of opposition against those very themes.

At the end of the day the core message of TLOU2 is that revenge is bad m'kay and that simply isn't woke, progressive or SJW. Its instead an utterly mundane message that has been done to death by games from all over the political spectrum. Meanwhile the cores message of Ghost are inherently progressive and woke.

This isn't really a very rare phenomenon either. You only need to see one video mildly critical of Star Wars before the almighty algorithm showers you in videos with alt right Youtubers shouting how politics ''RUINED STAR WARS!!!!!'' despite the sequels not at all being political, which the movies before them all were. Or how Captain America only now got political as if he didn't literally start his comic book run by punching Hitler in the face.

 

[Hades]

So yeh not 100% true to our world but trying to base itself on truth. Literal mushroom zombie insects are a thing in real life.

And yet human mushroom zombies are still less realistic than a woman putting on muscles, even those absurd ones. Can a woman get that muscled? Maybe not, but they can be muscled. Either we accept that something is ''not a 100% true'' or we don't. It doesn't make sense to go ''Yeah Mushroom human zombies aren't 100% realistic BUT....'' and then turn around and say ''Oh that's not 100% realistic! Get it outta here!''

If the zombies are fine then Abby is fine. Well....she's not fine because she's a psychopath but that doesn't have anything to do with her muscles.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Because of....the lack of it happening? All these games and movies the press supposedly despises sure don't seem to be suffering in the review department. They're showered with praise, typically win awards or at the very least manage to get passing grades, and then some very thick people start shouting how the evil press is colluding against the media that they aren't even attacking.

Well they generally don't do it in reviews now they're not that dumb and after showing that such approaches harm things I'd imagine words have been said by companies about not doing it and you know for example not writing articles shaming a well known youtuber for saying they won't go to see the newest film in a franchise and accusing them of being a hateful monster for refusing to pay Sony money.

Or we'll see Captain Marvel 2 get touted as the arch demon bringing feminism into our media again which is the likelier scenario.

Depends if Disney or some PR agency they hire fail like with #notmyaerial (A tag that was eventually found to have been started by a for hire twitter bot network) or succeed in making it seem like whatever opposition the film gets is real and not just people going "Yeh not interested"

If that was the case then no product ever would get a bad review score. The far simpler explanation is that they showered Ghost with praise because they simply liked it.
And for all those ''little things to fault Ghost on'' they certainly refused to actually fault ghost on. You can bring those aspects up without it meaning you hate the game. An alt right youtuber can adore Persona 5 for being a great game while still wanting to discuss how he doesn't like Shido being a populist demagogue, without it meaning that this causes him to hate Persona. Criticism is more nuanced then that. Evidently every outlet found the positive aspect of Ghost far more important than the aspects they deemed problematic, and they rated it accordingly.

Yeh but the issue is you don't see anywhere near the same kind of criticism in regards to titles like TLOU2 that get seemingly deemed as approved and criticism towards it faces people trying to shut it down.

I mean The stabbing a pregnant character, the rather brutally beating a black woman, the fact it really does have some kinda weird sex scenes and how so talk of crunch vanished. Also the fact Abby may well be Neil Druckman fetish material kinda like Tarantino and feet shots only kinda even more overt if you know some of the stuff so it comes off kinda really creepy that you're basically playing as Neil Druckman's fetish fulfilment character......

Oof. Its like we have an exact mirror of opinion. Because I'd say the anti woke crowd isn't exactly known for looking into stuff so deeply. And I'd argue about the old misunderstanding of Abby maybe being trans already made many blindly determined to hate her, as do her muscles when it turned out she wasn't trans. And what they perceive the game as saying isn't very relevant when the game isn't actually saying that.

I'd certainly say they never looked very deeply into Ghost because if they truly liked Ghost as the say they do then they might have picked up on it themes a long time ago, rather than use it as a symbol of opposition against those very themes.

At the end of the day the core message of TLOU2 is that revenge is bad m'kay and that simply isn't woke, progressive or SJW. Its instead an utterly mundane message that has been done to death by games from all over the political spectrum. Meanwhile the cores message of Ghost are inherently progressive and woke.

This isn't really a very rare phenomenon either. You only need to see one video mildly critical of Star Wars before the almighty algorithm showers you in videos with alt right Youtubers shouting how politics ''RUINED STAR WARS!!!!!'' despite the sequels not at all being political, which the movies before them all were. Or how Captain America only now got political as if he didn't literally start his comic book run by punching Hitler in the face.

Or the Anti-Woke crowd just hate wokeness because it's hollow and are fine with actually progressive themes and ideas?

Ok the sequels aren't political in the story but more in larger symbolic elements of them.

Luke is a washed up old hobo whose only able to be useful by dying. Rey is the best character ever more powerful than any other character, more capable than almost any other character. It's the weird taking a stand to try and prove something. It's America Chavez was actually the one who punched Hitler and racism caused history to remember it as Captain America kind of moment. It's why people aren't fans of Rey but like Ahsoka Tano because they've tried to make her powerful in her own right not trying to make her better than all the rest and super awesome.

The meta message as such is "Old men you time is over step aside and just die as that's the most you can do to help save the day now". It's stupid but that's how it goes it's really annoying and hollow kind of messaging that just seems to want to get certain people going "Har boo to you suck it". Like imagine if in The Last Jedi, Luke grabbed the lightsaber and went out just full on fighting. I dunno fly an X-wing / craft at the Empire jump out cut into the AT-AT start fighting his way through cutting through waves of storm troopers and ended up going down in a blaze of glory, it would hit very different because it comes off as going "Yes this character really is fucking awesome".

To give another example of what I mean. Jodie Whitaker as Doctor Who........ pushed as this massive moment in the franchise and "At last a strong female character" but that entirely ignore the long history of strong female characters Doctor Who has put out. But no-one seems to notice or care about that it's only the immediate moment and message that seems to count and and excuse to try and say the franchise now belongs to the woke lot or it's theirs now. Doesn't matter that multiple female companion of The Doctor have gone toe to toe with Daleks and won on their own mostly and have been very strong characters playing an equal part in saving the day or sometimes a greater part. It's the illusion of change created by pretending the rest of stuff didn't happen and not letting it come up. It's the people who were calling for a female James Bond while in the cinemas at the time Atomic Blonde was playing and they weren't pushing that or going to see that, they were yelling for James Bond to be changed.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

And yet human mushroom zombies are still less realistic than a woman putting on muscles, even those absurd ones. Can a woman get that muscled? Maybe not, but they can be muscled. Either we accept that something is ''not a 100% true'' or we don't. It doesn't make sense to go ''Yeah Mushroom human zombies aren't 100% realistic BUT....'' and then turn around and say ''Oh that's not 100% realistic! Get it outta here!''

If the zombies are fine then Abby is fine. Well....she's not fine because she's a psychopath but that doesn't have anything to do with her muscles.

yeh but again, apocalypse. Even with food etc sorted the group Abby is with still wouldn't exactly be able to provide her with a body builder diet it would be more standard ration meal stuff so either everyone would be Abby level buff or they'd be putting on weight far more noticeably.

Also the argument was pushed that Abby was totally realistic, if people had said "Ok yeh she's not realistic" then people would have basically had to go "Ok then glad you admit it"

 

[AnxietyProne]

yeh but again, apocalypse. Even with food etc sorted the group Abby is with still wouldn't exactly be able to provide her with a body builder diet it would be more standard ration meal stuff so either everyone would be Abby level buff or they'd be putting on weight far more noticeably.

Theanti-woke crowd's opinion on "Muh realism" means bumpkiss when they slagged on Battlefield Hardline for being unrealistic for having a female cop beat up a man, but were fine with Dynasty Warriors' level of "realism".

Or the Anti-Woke crowd just hate wokeness because it's hollow and are fine with actually progressive themes and ideas?

Alucardlaugh.jpg

 

[Cheetodust]

Ah yes the ex dancer and ex model Liana K couldn't possibly know anything about specialised diets or anything also ignoring the fact I sourced her because:

Glad to see we agree. Being an ex dancer or model does not make someone in anyway knowledgeable in strength and conditioning. Here's some good and entertaining sources you can check out:
Stronger by science. Greg is a world record holding power lifter and Eric is a highly experienced natural pro bodybuilder

Dr. Stefi Cohen is a world record holding power lifter and physio.

Shredded Sports Science, James is an actual sports scientist.

Greg Doucette, very grating personality but has a masters in kinesiology and is a world record holding powerlifter and has competed both natural and enhanced as a body builder.

1) She's uses actual comments from the actual body model for Abby as part of her argument.
2) She presents the information in an easily digestible form and it's easy to look up and find get through.
3) She's hardly some right wing return of kings loon.

She still has no expertise in the field.

But hey feel free to say why she doesn't count as a source

Okay, James Stephanie sterling says it is realistic and they're a pro wrestler so I guess we've reached a stalemate.

Cardio and muscle building are different things and under what is basically organisational rations she wouldn't be maintaining that look. I mean Dwayne Johnson is on like 5 meals a day to maintain his look if anything Abby would look more like old Dwayne Johnson when he was in WWE at best

A quick Google tells me Dwayne Johnson weighs a solid 40kg more than Colleen Fotch. A very quick estimate would mean the rock would need about 3100 calories to maintain, (he says 5000 but celebrities like to give insanely inflated numbers for these things because sating that they're on an impossible to maintain diet hides the fact that they're juiced up) and Fotsch would need about 2000. I could do better maths and give you more precise numbers, but it's just a rule of thumb to illustrate the point. So let's say she needs 2500 calories. We would be looking at about

110g of fat
150g of protein
225g of carbs

as a fairly standard split for that kind of calorie requirement.

Yes, cardio and muscle building are two different things. People use cardio to stay lean and burn fat because the calorie burn of weightlifting is minimal compared to cardio.

Number of meals is largely irrelevant up to a point. Most of that stuff is the chicken and brocoli stuff Disney stars sell you because their contract forbids them from saying they're juiced to the eyeballs.

And again, Colleen Fotsch is not the Dwayne the Rock Johnson of women's physiques. Many many many female Crossfit athletes have that physique.

We also know that Abby is in her 20's and has been lifting heavy since her teens.

Anything else is just assumptions about the world and Abby's camp and insisting it would be impossible even though we lack all of the info. It's safe to assume that soldiers probably get more food than would be the norm and also the one time we see Abby eat in camp isn't it a burrito. You know the calorie and macro breakdown of an average burrito? It would be fine to say it would be difficult, the fact that people have glommed onto it as an impossibility so doggedly shows there's an ulterior motive there. Because they're arguing that the zombie mushroom game isn't realistic.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The fact that you're going to go with Liana K. on this proves you care more about finding a source that supports what you already believe than a source that knows a good god damn what they're talking about.

I particularly liked how she once said that the God of War sex mini-games were actually about how Kratos was being exploited for sex by other women, and how this added depth to his character. Truly insightful.

Quite frankly the question whether Abby's muscles are realistic enough kind of bores me because it hinges on us suddenly playing a massive importance on realism on only a single aspect of the game while refusing to do it at others.

Hey, remember when Joel got skewered in the first game - just right through the back and out the belly with a big ol' rusty piece of rebar - and then was nursed back to health by a 14-year old on nothing but sutures and penicilline? And remember all the videos that got made by angry fans about how unrealistc that was? Oh right.

Funny how these people didn't care about realism then, but they suddenly do when it comes to a woman not being fappable enough for them.

 

[Kwak]

Funny how these people didn't care about realism then, but they suddenly do when it comes to a woman not being fappable enough for them.

And then because she doesn't fit THEIR fappable parameters, proclaiming her as a very particular sexual fetish fantasy for very particular perverts named Neil, because she couldn't possibly just be the result of a particular narrative vision in telling a story.

 

[Cheetodust]

And then because she doesn't fit THEIR fappable parameters, proclaiming her as a very particular sexual fetish fantasy for very particular perverts named Neil, because she couldn't possibly just be the result of a particular narrative vision in telling a story.

Like they literally cannot conceive of putting a woman in a game unless it's to Jack off to her.