A Group of 270 Scientists, Doctors, etc. Submit Open Letter to Spotify Regarding Joe Rogan (JRE)

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
8,598
5,963
118
Covid is a new virus that's been around for 2 years basically. It will kill more than the flu if it has the same IFR (or even lower IFR) because there is no built-in population immunity to it.
Ugh. IFR does not work like you think it does.

IFR is dependent on a wide range of factors and circumstances, of which immunity is one, and is thus dependent on place and time. You can take a theoretical IFR for a completely naive population, but the minute people start catching it, IFR decreases because people develop immunity. Eventually, covid IFR will probably stabilise through immunity, fluctuating (like influenza) with the appearance of new variants and strains.

However, of course, it's not as simple as that, because diseases have different infectiousness: If covid has an IFR half of influenza in one place and time, it may still cause more deaths if over twice as many people are catching it. Seems to me covid is very transmissible compared to influenza.

In terms of the covid IFR for a naive population, I might simply note that in the USA 270 people per 100,000 have died thus far, or 0.27% (and over 2000 people a day are dying currently). This despite both prior infections and vaccinations throughout most of 2021, both of which reduce the chance of death to less than 10%, even less than 5%, that of not being immune. It is therefore almost guaranteed that the IFR for the US population when totally naive was considerably more than 0.27%. Considering some other countries' statistics as well (400 / 100,000 deaths and still climbing), I would suggest the range of 0.5-1% was likely. So with everyone theoretically immune and so with 95% protection, a reasonable estimate is IFR 0.025-0.05%. This is potentially lower than influenza. Although of course the influenza IFR also represents that lots of people aren't effectively immunised against influenza - or at least some strains of it doing the rounds that year. And as above, we then have to consider how many people might catch it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CM156

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
8,715
2,891
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Big Pharma actually did their job quite well with covid and showed their value. Albeit with a great deal of government support here and there.
Well, as a person who is naturally very wary of government and corporations, yes this a true. Considering what governments and corporations normally do together... which generally can be placed in the bad or even illegal box. There was a specific reason why I was not willing to get the jab until the middle of last year

I think it helped that multiple governments, agencies and corporations were involved. And it does show competition as a concept working, which I normally say doesn't work as intended in Capitalism. And Trump is probably right. He HAS probably saved millions through his policies... but also killed hundreds of thousands through other, contradictory policies. Cost benefit wise he is a net positive. (Still very wasteful)
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
10,872
5,399
118

Japan's doing it now! Do you think they are Rogan fans over there?

Oh they edited the article to vague up the info. Interesting. Here is some other news from Japan.

 
Last edited:

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 21, 2009
5,315
3,130
118
Country
United States of America
Big Pharma actually did their job quite well with covid and showed their value. Albeit with a great deal of government support here and there.
They did indeed acquire some massively useful patents and paid many employees to do various useful things.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
10,872
5,399
118
What's this got to do with Rogan?
Rogan got shit for talking about taking ivermectin when he had covid and about how much the drug helped him. Everyone said it was bullshit, that it was a horse deworming drug and that Ivermectin was dangerous and whatnot. There was a ton of drama about it.

It's almost like they don't WANT to find treatments for people the way a lot of this shit reads.
 

Schadrach

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 20, 2010
2,000
357
88
Country
US
that it was a horse deworming drug
I mean, it is. In humans it's sometimes used for scabies, as well. It has a long history of use, and with careful dosing is pretty safe. What it doesn't have a long history of use as is as an antiviral.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
10,872
5,399
118
I mean, it is. In humans it's sometimes used for scabies, as well. It has a long history of use, and with careful dosing is pretty safe. What it doesn't have a long history of use as is as an antiviral.
But that doesn't mean it doesn't work as an antiviral, and more and more studies on it are being done that are showing that it is in fact working pretty well in antivrial trials.

Drugs get discovered for new purposes all the time. Viagra originally was a blood pressure medication that had a really fun side-effect and is now more often used in different treatment because of that side effect.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
10,872
5,399
118
Or maybe we just find it irresponsible for meat-headed jocks with a giant platform to pretend they're doctors. Just putting that out there.
Which is why doctors. Actual real doctors, are studying this shit and finding out it works. Just putting that out there.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
27,073
11,345
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
Which is why doctors. Actual real doctors, are studying this shit and finding out it works. Just putting that out there.
Yet you still followed Rogan for a time, and still stand by his agruements, despite saying otherwise. You really have not left him.
This is media propaganda. They've told you that you don't care about other people if you don't get the shot. They've convinced you that people who don't get vaccinated are evil.

Meanwhile the truth is, the vaccine is doing fuck-all for the prevention and spread of the Omicron varient and as more varients continue to propagate, the vaccine will become less and less effective in this manner.

The vaccine is great, it protects YOU and ONLY YOU from serious illness. Everyone capable of getting vaccinated probably should. HOWEVER it has nothing to do with protecting other people.
You said it yourself after all.....
This was all you. You're still following someone's propaganda, just with extra layer bullshit. We're done here.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
10,872
5,399
118
Yet you still followed Rogan for a time, and still stand by his agruements, despite saying otherwise.
I didn't stand by anything. I merely know the fallout he got months ago about shit, and then saw the articles about the studies in Japan (who likely have little to no Joe Rogan influence) showcasing that the drug people shit on Rogan for might actually not be bullshit.
This was all you. You're still following someone's propaganda, just with extra layer bullshit. We're done here.
You know you're doing the same thing you're calling me out for right? The only difference is that you agree with your bullshit.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
27,073
11,345
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
I didn't stand by anything. I merely know the fallout he got months ago about shit, and then saw the articles about the studies in Japan (who likely have little to no Joe Rogan influence) showcasing that the drug people shit on Rogan for might actually not be bullshit.
HAHAHAHAAHA. Goal posting!
You know you're doing the same thing you're calling me out for right? The only difference is that you agree with your bullshit.
It ain't bullshit, if you know it's already true and see the actual results. Oh, and having multiple people in the family that are heavily in the medical field really helps. I trust them more than you, or your former savior. If you choose the life of a fool, then you will die fool. Don't like it; not my problem. It's yours and yours alone. Once again, you don't have shit to stand on. Start taking some fucking responsibility and stop whiny excuses. Don't ask me, you figure it out. Since you "got everything figured out" with no medical knowledge and medical history.
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
6,537
930
118
Country
USA
We should probably wait until they're done, no? Especially considering how terrible science reporting in general is.
I'm pretty sure you just made the most common argument against covid vaccines.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
8,715
2,891
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Rogan got shit for talking about taking ivermectin when he had covid and about how much the drug helped him. Everyone said it was bullshit, that it was a horse deworming drug and that Ivermectin was dangerous and whatnot. There was a ton of drama about it.

It's almost like they don't WANT to find treatments for people the way a lot of this shit reads.
Joe Rogan based his stance on a study that came out. I will note that most SCIENTISTS agreed with Joe. Then, a couple of months later, it came out that the study had false data, and many co-authors dobbed in the person who made up the data

This is when scientists changed their mind, away from Rogan. With the proviso that other, more reputable scientists will continue looking into Ivermectin, just in case

Rogan got shit because he ONLY kept citing this study because he didn't want the vaccine, even though it. He was just saying something based on ideology, not on evidence.

It became increasingly problematic once normal Ivermectin ran out and people started raiding vetinary clinics. Even if you think Ivermectin helped, you can see that this is not right. All of this happened ONLY because people who are sacred of a vaccine that has had a hundred times more studies done on it than Ivermectin. And the one for Ivermectin was false.

I also note that during the Rogan/CNN interview thread on here, I pointed out many times that, 'at the time of this recording' Ivermectin wasn't proven to be effective and scientists were looking into it. Because that's what the scientists were saying if you ever bother to listen instead of making up viewpointd

I also note that the controversy during that interview wasnt Rogan's clear ideological abuses and spreading data that was false, it was how he was 'insulted.' I specifically remember you stating that CNN could no longer be trusted over them insulting Rogan..... and then completely disregarding that Rogan was lying about that particular study. Which is some straight up BS. This turned me against Rogan because this shows how utterly irresponsible and up his own ass Rogan is to not bother to see what problems he's causing

You saying that 'we aren't interest in finding leads' is a lie. We are interested in what can be proven. Not what can be falsified. If this docs study is replicated at least ten times hopefully in multiple countries, we can start believing it as true. Again, it's not that people were saying it was BS, they said Rogan had no evidence for what he was saying (at the time of that recording.) You NOT understanding this is exactly what you are complaining about others doing to Rogan.

If the vaccine was able to put in a little effort as what some people expect to prove Ivermectin was useful, this pandemic would have been over in June 2020. But, unfortunately, science has way higher standards than a study coming out in saying something

If you think anyone should give Rogan an apology, I strongly disagree. He might have backed an alternative cure. He didn't do it based on anything other than his feelings. If Ivermectin is prove effective, I'll be saying that too. Because that's how science works. If Rogan hates me for not backing up is unevidenced claims, so be it. I'll follow what the evidence says and I'm not going to kowtow to an influencers just because he has opinions

Lastly, I saw Rogan's statement yesterday. He waa talking about having alternative views on, which I suppose is great. He's just going to copy what they say instead of having thoughts himself. So I'm not that keen. I would personally much prefer that he acts like he did to the CNN guy - doesn't take what they say as true. Actually dig deeper. Also, just because he says that he that his advice shouldn't be taken doesnt mean that people aren't going to take the advice. Maybe take responsibility and understand how Rogan repeating false data (which can quickly be checked by Google on air) is going to be used by people to hurt themselves
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
8,715
2,891
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
There are like a 100 studies in 20 different countries that are looking into the effectiveness of Ivermectin before Joe Rogan started talking about it.

Pretending that scientists 'just are looking' is some of the most fucked up nonsense I've heard. It's not based on reality and just based on your ideology. Feelings over facts

Maybe, just maybe, get out of Rogan ass
 

Kwak

Elite Member
Sep 11, 2014
2,210
1,716
118
Country
4

" No, a Japanese company did not find that ivermectin was “effective” against the omicron variant in a clinical trial, as Reuters originally reported on Monday. The wire service was forced to correct the article.

The actual news, as the current version of the article reads, is that ivermectin carries an “‘antiviral effect’ against Omicron and other coronavirus variants in joint nonclinical research.”
The difference between the two versions couldn’t be more dramatic: The mistaken version claimed that ivermectin was effective against omicron in humans; the corrected version claimed that ivermectin showed “antiviral” capabilities against omicron in test tubes. Reuters attributed the news to Kowa Co. Ltd., a Japanese pharmaceutical company."

Oh they edited the article to vague up the info. Interesting. Here is some other news from Japan.
Correcting information is a conspiracy against you and your kind isn't it?
 

Generals

Elite Member
May 19, 2020
571
305
68
I'm pretty sure you just made the most common argument against covid vaccines.
With the exception that the vaccines have had extensive trials done. And obviously that no matter what a study says about the vaccines anti vaxxers will dismiss it as false propaganda. OTOH I will accept Ivermectin if it is proven to be effective. As-is however, no, studies have shown no effectiveness.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
8,715
2,891
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
With the exception that the vaccines have had extensive trials done. And obviously that no matter what a study says about the vaccines anti vaxxers will dismiss it as false propaganda. OTOH I will accept Ivermectin if it is proven to be effective. As-is however, no, studies have shown no effectiveness.
I would say that vaccines only reach the final stage of trial before being release. I will say that made me apprehensive and not wanting to take it immediately. It didnt matter to me if Trump or Biden or anyone else pushed it through that fast, I was still apprehensive.

I ALSO had an idea what evidence I did need to prove that vaccines were generally safe. By the time I took the vaccine, 10x the amount of people had the vaccine compared to the number of people who contracted COVID. The results were possibly 5,000 dead (its the self reported site so there would be some fake stuff in there) from the vaccine and 5.5 MILLION dead from COVID... despite the vaccine being in 10x the amount of people.

The anti-vaxxer dont really have any idea what they need to prove that vaccines are effective or safe. But they do pretend that vaccines are super dangerous. Rogan has outright stated this too, repeating false data that he heard from previous guests. He's also stated that he's against taking the vaccine.... so when people claim he's not an anti-vaxxer, I dont know what reality they are in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan