You're lucky you're a dinosaur. You got to be killed by a comet. We're killing each other over our own stupidity.
Ukraine
- Thread starter Silvanus
- Start date
Danm right, my Dinosauria brother. I think it's the diapsids turn to rule again, the synapsids have fuck up to much at this point.You're lucky you're a dinosaur. You got to be killed by a comet. We're killing each other over our own stupidity.
Why shouldn't they? All they need do is deploy precisely the same arguments as people 'defending Ukrainian sovereignty and democracy from Russia' but substituting Donetsk and Luhansk for Ukraine and Ukraine for Russia; those regions voted for Yanukovich, indeed they are where Yanukovich fled from the Euromaidan protests before he was impeached. And the new Ukrainian regime's idea was to reconquer them. The same logic applies in a rather tranquil symmetry. Just like the same logic applies to NATO expansionism and encirclement of Russia as it does to Russian encirclement of Ukraine (though the details differ a bit more in that case).
Hopefully the wishes of the people of Donetsk and Luhansk will be respected by all parties who end up having a say over their fate, though I don't particularly expect it in any case; given these developments it is good, at least, that civilians have been evacuated from the DPR/LPR-held areas of the Donbas, as interested parties seem determined to have a conflict there. The DPR/LPR are emboldened by Russian recognition, and the Ukraine by NATO supply and rhetoric. It is in fact difficult to tell who is more responsible for the escalation (though I'm certain people who are invested in believing the half of the story they heard first will blame solely one side or the other).
Its actually quite easy. The one with the giant invasion force and a history of illegally seizing land is the one responsible for his escalation. The one who seeks to forbid Ukraine and Europe from forming ties is responsible for the escalation. The one who behaves as he Ukraine is his rightful vassal state is the one responsible for the escalation.
I know it's Russia sending troops into Donbas right now and they are wrong for it, but 2 out of those 3 apply to the west and the only reason the third doesn't apply is that you have to switch a name around.
That's what superpowers do, bully their neighbors into submission. There's a reason why USA screwed over South America or China is trying to take sea area or forcing most of the world to not recognize Taiwan as a country.
But stuff like this should always be challenged, countries have the right to decide their own destiny and we must call out stuff like this whether it's the USA or russia.
But surely they would rather be liberated by Russian bullets than continue to suffer under the heel of American imperialism?!
Don't look upYou're lucky you're a dinosaur. You got to be killed by a comet. We're killing each other over our own stupidity.
Look, I give this about a 5% chance of happening long term. I really hope they get the freedom they want.
I also think that everyone is going to try to take a piece of the pie
Well fuck...
apnews.com
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www.reuters.com
War fears grow as Putin orders troops to eastern Ukraine
A long-feared Russian invasion of Ukraine appears to be imminent, if not already underway, with Russian President Vladimir Putin ordering forces into separatist regions of eastern Ukraine.
apnews.com
Putin vents Ukraine grievances as justification for recognising Donbass
President Vladimir Putin signed decrees on Monday to recognise two breakaway regions of eastern Ukraine as independent statelets, defying Western warnings that such a step would be illegal and would kill off peace negotiations.
www.reuters.com
So it does appear that the pull out was fake, or maybe Putin is indecisive...
It was more of a trick. Putin can say now that "See, I was trying to prevent war, but Ukraine/West kept attacking these sovereign states (Donets, Luhansk)." And now he can claim that they're actually peacekeepers and defending these "states."Well fuck...
War fears grow as Putin orders troops to eastern Ukraine
A long-feared Russian invasion of Ukraine appears to be imminent, if not already underway, with Russian President Vladimir Putin ordering forces into separatist regions of eastern Ukraine.Putin vents Ukraine grievances as justification for recognising Donbass
President Vladimir Putin signed decrees on Monday to recognise two breakaway regions of eastern Ukraine as independent statelets, defying Western warnings that such a step would be illegal and would kill off peace negotiations.
So it does appear that the pull out was fake, or maybe Putin is indecisive...
Seriously, fuck Putin, and fuck Russia. The world doesn't need this shit. Why now?
And the constant gaslighting - 'what troops, we're not doing aaaaanything, you saying that we're up to something makes it more likely we will do something so it's YOUR fault."
Fucking goddamn evil sumfabitches.
And the constant gaslighting - 'what troops, we're not doing aaaaanything, you saying that we're up to something makes it more likely we will do something so it's YOUR fault."
Fucking goddamn evil sumfabitches.
Well, we now have Russian troops marching into Ukraine.
Specifically into the Donetsk and Luhansk "people's republics", which Putin recognised as part of Ukraine's sovereign territory in 2015, and then instead recognised as independent states he must help defend against Ukraine literally hours before his troops entered.
It's pretty obvious that the status of Donetsk and Luhansk doesn't actually matter a single iota to Putin, considering his government's official stance was that they were Ukrainian until... uhrm a few hours before he needed them not to be. Calls into question whether he signed the Minsk Accords in the first place as a ruse.
NB. That polling in Donbas consistently show majority opposition to Russian intervention and/or integration into Russia.
Specifically into the Donetsk and Luhansk "people's republics", which Putin recognised as part of Ukraine's sovereign territory in 2015, and then instead recognised as independent states he must help defend against Ukraine literally hours before his troops entered.
It's pretty obvious that the status of Donetsk and Luhansk doesn't actually matter a single iota to Putin, considering his government's official stance was that they were Ukrainian until... uhrm a few hours before he needed them not to be. Calls into question whether he signed the Minsk Accords in the first place as a ruse.
NB. That polling in Donbas consistently show majority opposition to Russian intervention and/or integration into Russia.
Let's please remember that the military revolt in Donbas was built on the back of Russia arming separatists and slipping thousands of "volunteers" over the border. Thus when you say Ukraine wanted to reconquer them, this is because Russia had already de facto invaded them.
The Donetsk and Luhansk separatists are not representatives of the people: they are military juntas backed by a foreign power, who have never won or run a free and fair election. These areas were around 60% Ukrainian in ethnicity, so I'm very doubtful they really wanted to be part of Russia. So please don't give us this appalling crap about what Donetsk and Luhansk people want regarding independence or unification with Russia, because they've never been allowed to voice an opinion - and nor will they in the near future given Russia's attitude to democracy. There's a large gap between protesting the toppling of their preferred president and being forcibly stripped from their country by a neighbour.
Although of course, I suspect with enough movement of people - Ukrainians fleeing and Russians moving in - Russia can readily manufacture a Russian majority population anyway. In essence, little different from what Israel is doing in the West Bank.
Why now? IMO Biden is much better at making alliances than Trump, thus being a greater threat.