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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Antifasciant alliance!

What a fucking joke.
Don't you see, Seanchaidh is celebrating the fact that Ukrainian nazies put aside the whole nazi thing to elect a Jewish president. Its just a matter of time till he tells us that as soon as Russia is done in the Ukraine that they will deal with all the Russian nazies too.
 

Agema

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Cute attempt, but no. I'm promoting an understanding of the origins of this conflict
You could have got away with that shit had you not spent an inordinate amount of time making excuses for Putin or dropping comments along the lines that anything that opposes the world's biggest hegemon is worth it.
 

Silvanus

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Cute attempt, but no. I'm promoting an understanding of the origins of this conflict that isn't as shallow as a hallmark card. How many more times do I have to point out that very pro-American experts who are favorable to western capitalism not only opposed the expansion of NATO but predicted exactly this outcome? I'm not presenting you some fringe theory; it's just something that has been excised from media discourse because for whatever reason they want to make the Iraq war run-up look like a shining example of honesty, deliberation, and journalistic integrity by [....]
Ooh, OK! So what's the non-sanitised version? I'm dying to know how it makes annexation and indiscriminate slaughter acceptable!

Because to be very clear: you've been encouraging the route which involves the very most killing of independent reporters until now.
 
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Agema

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Here's an article from 2016 written by Peter Tatchell on the UK's Stop The War Coalition, at the time on Syria:


It effectively describes Seanchaidh's chunk of the left. Anyone and everyone can be sold down the river in their fight against the capitalist West.
 

Gordon_4

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God this is going to sound so “acksually” but I wouldn’t be surprised if Ukraine did have some kind of bio weapons program in the sense of creating counter measures to biological warfare. Nor would be shocked if it had biolabs that looked at diseases in and of themselves - especially since COVID - because both of those things seem like sensible programmes to have when you’re next door to Russia.
 

Hawki

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God this is going to sound so “acksually” but I wouldn’t be surprised if Ukraine did have some kind of bio weapons program in the sense of creating counter measures to biological warfare. Nor would be shocked if it had biolabs that looked at diseases in and of themselves - especially since COVID - because both of those things seem like sensible programmes to have when you’re next door to Russia.
I'm not sure how much worth it is to use biological weapons on your own soil. Chemical, sure, but biological? How do you even control that?

Of course, even then, Russia was perfectly fine with Assad using chemical weapons, so, what, NOW you're afraid? Or is it because of "Nazis?"
 

Kwak

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They are now false-flagging Belarus to get them to join their invasion.



Kateryna Tyschenko – Friday, 11 March 2022, 16:24

The Air Force Command reports that Russian planes turned around above Ukraine, after which they struck the territory of Belarus.

Source: Armed Forces Air Force Command of Ukraine on Facebook, State Border Guard Service

According to the Air Force Command: "Today at 14:30 the State Border Guard Service received information that Russian planes entered the territory of Ukraine, turned over our towns of Horodychi and Tumeni, and then fired on the settlement of Kopani (Belarus)."
 
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Mister Mumbler

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made an agreement to secure temporary peace
No. Molotov-Ribbentrop was not a peace agreement, it was a shopping list where both countries laid out which countries they were going to invade and conquer. First on the list? Poland. Like, you want to talk about the Soviets being worried about some hypothetical in-action by Western countries if Germany invaded them, yet it was the Soviets who gleefully helped Nazis in their campaign across Poland and then stood by and let them run rip shod all over the rest of Europe (because they were too busy invading eastern Europe and massacring Polish people).
 

Seanchaidh

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No. Molotov-Ribbentrop was not a peace agreement, it was a shopping list where both countries laid out which countries they were going to invade and conquer. First on the list? Poland. Like, you want to talk about the Soviets being worried about some hypothetical in-action by Western countries if Germany invaded them, yet it was the Soviets who gleefully helped Nazis in their campaign across Poland and then stood by and let them run rip shod all over the rest of Europe (because they were too busy invading eastern Europe and massacring Polish people).
The answer western capitalist countries that weren't yet fascist gave to Stalin's call for an antifascist alliance was the Munich Agreement, to which the Soviet Union was not a party-- was not even invited to discuss. But neither were the Czechs, so whatever, right? So the Soviets looked to their own interests because clearly the 'free world' wasn't going to be helpful. Save the crocodile tears.

Here's an article from 2016 written by Peter Tatchell on the UK's Stop The War Coalition, at the time on Syria:


It effectively describes Seanchaidh's chunk of the left. Anyone and everyone can be sold down the river in their fight against the capitalist West.
Wow, interesting.

It pains me to say this: Stop the War Coalition has betrayed the Syrian people who protested peacefully for democracy in 2011 and have been massacred by Assad ever since. The principles of internationalist solidarity have been dumped. Responding to critics it its own ranks, the coalition belatedly, and somewhat mutedly, condemned the Assad and Putin bombing of civilians but has never organised a march against them. Indeed, although quick to demonstrate in opposition to any and all Western interventions, the coaltion has failed to even once rally against the military intervention in Syria by Russia, Iran and Hezbollah.
An organization in the UK didn't organize marches against Putin. In the UK. Because marches against Putin in the UK would have been helpful somehow-- would have had a positive effect when it comes to stopping war (as is the organization's apparent goal) and, presumably, not starting it. Or essentially, the anti-war movement has lost its way because a portion of it doesn't want to add fuel to narratives that will lead to more war. They failed to condemn the military interventions of other countries in Syria... that were actually invited there by the government to oppose many of the same people the United States was (ISIS). And that are likely targets of the government which they operate under. Incredible.

The anti-war movement should be in the business of promoting hostility between countries that already have tense relations. Sounds legit!

Ooh, OK! So what's the non-sanitised version? I'm dying to know how it makes annexation and indiscriminate slaughter acceptable!
Who said it would?

Because to be very clear: you've been encouraging the route which involves the very most killing of independent reporters until now.
I've been encouraging the route which, if taken from the beginning, this wouldn't have even happened. And if taken now should result in a more or less immediate peace agreement. Is 'detente' not in your vocabulary?
 

Seanchaidh

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Antifasciant alliance!

What a fucking joke.
Were you not aware that much of the Soviet Union's diplomacy in the 30s had as its goal the isolation and containment of Hitler? The problem is that your government wasn't so keen and the French and UK sold out the Czechs.
 

Mister Mumbler

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The answer western capitalist countries that weren't yet fascist gave to Stalin's call for an antifascist alliance was the Munich Agreement, to which the Soviet Union was not a party-- was not even invited to discuss. But neither were the Czechs, so whatever, right?
Yes, and that's a tragedy that shouldn't have happened, and no one would have thought wrong had they just sat aside and let Nazis invade Poland...

But they didn't sit aside, did they?
So the Soviets looked to their own interests because clearly the 'free world' wasn't going to be helpful. Save the crocodile tears.
Yes, and their own interests just happened to be starting WWII alongside the fucking Nazis.

Fuck crocodile tears, could you imagine if the Soviet Union had declared war on Germany with Great Britain and the rest right there in 1939, and had helped them drive the Nazis out of Poland and back into Berlin? Could have prevented the deaths of tens of millions of people, but then I guess that wasn't in their interests...
 

Seanchaidh

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This is the sort of rhetoric that is being broadcast in my country now. Charitably we can call it holocaust revisionism. Uncharitably we can call it holocaust denial.

Fuck crocodile tears, could you imagine if the Soviet Union had declared war on Germany with Great Britain and the rest right there in 1939, and had helped them drive the Nazis out of Poland and back into Berlin? Could have prevented the deaths of tens of millions of people, but then I guess that wasn't in their interests...
Yeah, that would have been great. It was also what the Soviet Union proposed before the invasion of Poland. UK/France said no. And it's a bit rich to blame communists for thinking that capitalist countries would hang them out to dry just like they did Czechoslovakia.
 

Thaluikhain

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I'm not sure how much worth it is to use biological weapons on your own soil. Chemical, sure, but biological? How do you even control that?
Don't target people. Potato blight killed millions, mostly in Ireland, but didn't kill anyone directly. Doesn't hurt countries where they don't grow potatoes.

Don't even have to kill people, target a luxury crop like tobacco or vineyards or sugarcane, mess up a nation's economy. And make it look natural.

Putin invaded a country on flimsy pretenses! Oh wow, the United States has never done that.
Putin's country is dominated by a wealthy elite! Not like here, then!
Putin's military is causing civilian casualties! Unheard of.
Putin is making questionable accusations about WMD in Ukraine! Unprecedented.
Putin attacked a hospital! Never before have we seen such things.
So, we should give a free pass to the US as well? Why can we not condemn whoever does this? Lots of people have no trouble with that.
 
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Agema

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Were you not aware that much of the Soviet Union's diplomacy in the 30s had as its goal the isolation and containment of Hitler? The problem is that your government wasn't so keen and the French and UK sold out the Czechs.
And yet the Soviets had played their part in creating Nazi Germany in the first place, actively encouraging disruption in the belief that political extremism would hasten the end of Western capitalism.
 

Mister Mumbler

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Yeah, that would have been great. It was also what the Soviet Union proposed before the invasion of Poland. UK/France said no. And it's a bit rich to blame communists for thinking that capitalist countries would hang them out to dry just like they did Czechoslovakia.
Again, I'm not blaming them for the western Allies being dicks, or for their fear of hypothetically being left out to dry if invaded by Nazis.

I am blaming them for working alongside the very same Nazis that they are oh so scared of in destroying Poland and then actually leaving the rest of Europe out to dry.
 

Thaluikhain

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Again, I'm not blaming them for the western Allies being dicks, or for their fear of hypothetically being left out to dry if invaded by Nazis.

I am blaming them for working alongside the very same Nazis that they are oh so scared of in destroying Poland and then actually leaving the rest of Europe out to dry.
Eh, I can't blame them too much for that, myself. The Nazis had stated their desire to destroy the USSR, nobody else seems to care, or actively supports this idea, every nation for itself makes sense.
 

Generals

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So, we should give a free pass to the US as well? Why can we not condemn whoever does this? Lots of people have no trouble with that.
And that's where Sean's true colors show; he doesn't give the West any free pass and doesn't care one bit about any of the West's motivations to engage in a conflict. He only cares when it's a rival of the West conducting a war, killing innocent people, oppressing its own population, etc. The same goes with how easily he buys state propaganda. Anything the West says to excuse or minimize the scope of its actions is de-facto assumed to be lies, meanwhile all the propaganda from Fascist dictatorships which have clamped down on free speech is accepted as truth and any information contradicting that is CIA fabricated lies (Cf. Sean repeating Chinese state propaganda on the persecution of the Uyghurs) .

He is first and foremost an anti-liberal and he has no issue siding with Fascists to take down liberalism.
 
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Seanchaidh

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So, we should give a free pass to the US as well? Why can we not condemn whoever does this? Lots of people have no trouble with that.
Doesn't matter what I say, the US has gotten a free pass and is making no attempt whatsoever to rectify that. So why on earth would I hold anyone who is not the United States or in its club (so to speak) to a standard that my own country cannot hold itself? Especially when such sentiments can easily be leveraged into a justification for yet more aggression and hostility by the United States? We get to watch a parade of ghouls like Hillary Clinton yammer on about the inexcusable nature of damaging a hospital as if hospitals have not been deliberately targeted by the United States multiple times during their political careers with impunity.

I certainly do not need to add my voice to the airhead chorus calling for brutal consequences for the people of other countries should their leaders even consider acting like mine. There is quite enough of that already on platforms many orders of magnitude more influential than this forum.

And that's where Sean's true colors show; he doesn't give the West any free pass and doesn't care one bit about any of the West's motivations to engage in a conflict.
It's good to be anti-American, actually.

And apart from that, it's useful for a citizenry to understand the motivations and reasoning of their supposed enemies rather than simply gobbling up the war propaganda like good little plebeians. You get the apologia for western war crimes that you so desire blasted at volume 11 on MSM all the time-- or at least whenever they bother to recognize such an event has occurred in the first place-- why do you need me to echo it? Why do you need me to care about all the very good reasons the United States has to also bomb hospitals, use the Saudis to conduct a genocidal proxy war in Yemen, and so forth? Why so insecure, mate?