The last thing we watched, cartoon/animu edition

[BrawlMan]

I'd probably get doxxed on reddit for saying this, but I binged the season and a half of Attack On Titan and GODDAMN WHAT A CONVOLUTED MESS OF STORYTELLING.

I'd Watched the first couple seasons of it a few years ago and it was interesting, but slow. I tried to start up again earlier this year, but season 3 was painfully slow. So much time is spent with characters repeating the same lamentations over and over.

Finally the later half of season 3 is all gas. Its both all action and finally just lays all the cards out and tells you exactly whats going on. Thats however AOTs biggest problem is that its so slavish to these big reveals that characters actively refuse to talk or communicate.

The last season was an absolute slog to get through. Its sad because the ideas were interesting, but it leans heavily on 3 beats -

1. People fighting simply because someones intentionally not just communicating and being obtuse.
2. People betraying people and then betraying the people they betrayed only to betray betray betray until you lose track of what anyone's motivation is in any of it
3. People being sad because they have to kill people, usually their friends, and then immediately going on stomach churning killing sprees so ridiculous at one point someone stabs someone and then sets off grenades to cause a explosion in which their friends blood literally showers down on them.

Thats a large problem with the show. It starts off making each death a horrific thing that the audience should care about, but by the end of it, the entire budget goes into reveling in the death of its characters so much that Id forgotten who most of the characters were from any of the previous seasons. It reminded me of Death Of Evangelion? whatever the movie was that was just lots of robots fighting and people getting skewered.

I wouldn't say the show is up its own ass, but it basically had one moral to convey and it repeats it over and over with another set of characters every few episodes "oh the humanity" and "people are inherently shitty".

The show only had enough meaningful story for about half its run. An inordinate amount of time is spent on side stories that don't really payoff because they're redundant to other stories trying to convey the same story. Theres at least 5 or 6 characters who are introduced and have an arc which ends in them learning that life has grey areas and they should just do whatever feels right to them. Its compelling the first 2 or 3 times, but by the time the 4th season rolls around I was doing the flashbacks to check my email and I never missed anything.

Going back the pacing problem. Theres a character whos get an episode for a flashback to their childhood in season 4. Its supposed to give that character so humanity. The problem is you just don't care anymore and the flashback is nearly identical to two other characters. This would have been pretty compelling nearer to when the character was introduced in Season 2, but they didn't show it until now because it would have hinted at the big reveal in season 3, but now we're at the end of the show and you no longer care about this character as they aren't central to the overall story. Instead its irritating and distracts from getting to the end of the damned show.

I think the author had a great M.Night Shyamalan, twilight zone gimmick, but I think trying to keep the audience the dark and drag them along through the reveals cause them to struggle to balance the pacing.

The problem with AoT is that the series suffers from Walking Dead syndrome. The further it goes, the less interesting the premise becomes, it's barely about the Titans themselves (outside of certain main characters), and the anime/manga gets grim dark and boring for the sake of it. And the twist(s) are stretched out, played out, and dumb as all hell when you stop and think for more than 4 minutes! I dropped the show after the first season. I never looked back and have no regrets.

 

[Piscian]

The problem with AoT is that the series suffers from Walking Dead syndrome. The further it goes, the less interesting the premise becomes, it's barely about the Titans themselves (outside of certain main characters), and the anime/manga gets grim dark and boring for the sake of it. And the twist(s) are stretched out, played out, and dumb as all hell when you stop and think for more than 4 minutes! I dropped the show after the first season. I never looked back and have no regrets.

I feel like someone out there needs to severely chop down the show. I forgot to write it down, but from the time the show starts it takes something like 55 episodes before they finally get towards the show picking up the pace and revealing the twist. When you think of that in regular seasons of a show which is like 12-13 episodes, thats like 4 seasons. It too much filler by at least a 3rd. Theres many many characters who they spend nearly an episode of time on a piece who are not relevant to the main story even tangentially. Like if they were just edited out you wouldn't notice. I feel like you could watch the first season or so and just skip to the second half of the 3rd season to get the reveal and then just be done with it. Ironically season 4 picks up 4 years later so technically the initial story is basically done.

I think animes that get away with over 48 episodes have a sort of loop to them that keeps people watching, not to see where its going, but simply because the writing is funny or compelling.

Its just not here. The dialog just feels so redundant even in the early seasons where characters have the same motional breakdowns and whine about the same things over and over. This works the first time, you get the 6 or 7th Scout recruit having a breakdown when they see a Titan and you're just like "do they only recruit babies?"

uuugh I just want my time back.

 

[BrawlMan]

I think animes that get away with over 48 episodes have a sort of loop to them that keeps people watching, not to see where its going, but simply because the writing is funny or compelling.

• Monster
• FMA Brotherhood
• Digimon
• Parasyte
• Yu Yu Hakusho

Are the the longer runners/over 48 episode anime to get this right. It goes to show how many out in the anime sphere don't get this right.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Do they ever explain how they build the ginormous concentric walls around an entire nation? Anyone who can do that in the face of an invasion of Titans probably doesn't have to worry about an invasion of Titans. That bugged me for the entire season or so I watched of AoT.

 

[Chimpzy]

Do they ever explain how they build the ginormous concentric walls around an entire nation? Anyone who can do that in the face of an invasion of Titans probably doesn't have to worry about an invasion of Titans. That bugged me for the entire season or so I watched of AoT.

Yes, they do, and it's really stupid. The walls are made of petrified titans

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yes, they do, and it's really stupid. The walls are made of petrified titans

 

[Piscian]

Do they ever explain how they build the ginormous concentric walls around an entire nation? Anyone who can do that in the face of an invasion of Titans probably doesn't have to worry about an invasion of Titans. That bugged me for the entire season or so I watched of AoT.

They do. Its a bit like Dark City in that nothing is what you think it is. I actually think the twist is pretty clever, but then they bury it in unnecessary convoluted messy manga nonsense. The Titans arent a natural phenomena. The people on the island are a race of people, a minority of whom could turn into titans and took over the planet. They finally got more of less defeated and banished to the island. The world at some point figured out how to turn them into dumb titans and turn leftover slaves into titans keep attacking them into oblivion. Before that happened The king of the titans commanded a bunch titans to basically stand still and they built walls around them to protect themselves from the outside world similar to that movie The Village. However that explanation is really dumbing it down and making it sound more logical than it is. Show is maximum goofy anime bullshit. The real explanation is more similar the Aquateen hunger force Christmas episode

 

[Thaluikhain]

Ok, thanks. That sort of explains things I guess.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I'd probably get doxxed on reddit for saying this, but I binged the season and a half of Attack On Titan and GODDAMN WHAT A CONVOLUTED MESS OF STORYTELLING.

I'd Watched the first couple seasons of it a few years ago and it was interesting, but slow. I tried to start up again earlier this year, but season 3 was painfully slow. So much time is spent with characters repeating the same lamentations over and over.

Finally the later half of season 3 is all gas. Its both all action and finally just lays all the cards out and tells you exactly whats going on. Thats however AOTs biggest problem is that its so slavish to these big reveals that characters actively refuse to talk or communicate.

The last season was an absolute slog to get through. Its sad because the ideas were interesting, but it leans heavily on 3 beats -

1. People fighting simply because someones intentionally not just communicating and being obtuse.
2. People betraying people and then betraying the people they betrayed only to betray betray betray until you lose track of what anyone's motivation is in any of it
3. People being sad because they have to kill people, usually their friends, and then immediately going on stomach churning killing sprees so ridiculous at one point someone stabs someone and then sets off grenades to cause a explosion in which their friends blood literally showers down on them.

Thats a large problem with the show. It starts off making each death a horrific thing that the audience should care about, but by the end of it, the entire budget goes into reveling in the death of its characters so much that Id forgotten who most of the characters were from any of the previous seasons. It reminded me of Death Of Evangelion? whatever the movie was that was just lots of robots fighting and people getting skewered.

I wouldn't say the show is up its own ass, but it basically had one moral to convey and it repeats it over and over with another set of characters every few episodes "oh the humanity" and "people are inherently shitty".

The show only had enough meaningful story for about half its run. An inordinate amount of time is spent on side stories that don't really payoff because they're redundant to other stories trying to convey the same message. Theres at least 5 or 6 characters who are introduced and have an arc which ends in them learning that life has grey areas and they should just do whatever feels right to them. Its compelling the first 2 or 3 times, but by the time the 4th season rolls around I was using the flashbacks to check my email and I never missed anything.

Going back to the pacing problem. Theres a character who gets an episode for a flashback to their childhood in season 4. Its supposed to give that character some humanity. The problem is you just don't care anymore and the flashback is nearly identical to two other characters. This would have been pretty compelling nearer to when the character was introduced in Season 2, but they didn't show it until now because it would have hinted at the big reveal in season 3, but now we're at the end of the show and you no longer care about this character as they aren't central to the overall story. Instead its irritating and distracts from getting to the end of the damned show.

I think the author had a great M.Night Shyamalan, twilight zone gimmick, but I think trying to keep the audience in the dark and drag them along through the reveals cause them to struggle to balance the pacing.

It looks like the finale episode isnt out for a couple weeks, but man I've having trouble caring. The story is done. This is needless silly cheese.

Glad I never got into the series, especially after learning how it all ends.

Two big things you should never do; never make dramatic reveals the point of your series, and never get too far up your ass with "edgy" brutality. Both things require more restraint and patience than most people have in order to do well.

Edit: Thinking about it a little, bit the only anime I could think of that managed to walk this line is Higurashi and I think part of why it could is because of the time loop aspect of the story.

 

[meiam]

• Monster
• FMA Brotherhood
• Digimon
• Parasyte
• Yu Yu Hakusho

Are the the longer runners/over 48 episode anime to get this right. It goes to show how many out in the anime sphere don't get this right.

Parasyte wasn't 48 episodes (although it felt like it at time).

AoT just suffered from being popular when the author clearly didn't think of what the long term story line would be.

 

[BrawlMan]

Parasyte wasn't 48 episodes (although it felt like it at time).

Close enough and got more accomplished in its short run than AoT's near decade run. I call that a win.

AoT just suffered from being popular when the author clearly didn't think of what the long term story line would be.

As is a problem with so many long running manga.

 

[Piscian]

Parasyte wasn't 48 episodes (although it felt like it at time).

AoT just suffered from being popular when the author clearly didn't think of what the long term story line would be.

I was gonna say I thought Parasyte was only two seasons but I was too lazy to look it up and risk talking myself into rereading or watching it for the 4th or 5th time. Parasyte the rare exception where it really never lets off the of gas. It still amazes me that the show managed to be a beat for beat recreation of the comic without sacrificing anything. Then again the Author seemed to understand exactly made for compelling reading. Fuck it, now I feel like watching it again.

AOT, yeah I definitely see in the writing the author having a hook and a twist, but not knowing how to finish it, but man that last 3rd is just rambling nonsense. I can't put my finger on it, but the premise is ripped off of something else. Not just the Nazi stuff, but an actual movie and it escapes me, but much of the plot is ripped off of it. That theme of the oppressed becoming the oppressor's. Its on the tip of my tongue, but Im confident the author for AOT adapted the main theme.

I dont want to over hate on AOT that much. Its not awful, just a rough execution. If I had to summarize it, I did enjoy a lot of it, but youd have to tie me to a chair and hold my eyeballs open to get me to rewatch it.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

AoT just suffered from being popular when the author clearly didn't think of what the long term story line would be.

Definitely the biggest problem with AoT. There's a reason why even those who love the shit out of the series don't like the ending.

AoT has lots of cool concepts the and the presentation is S tier, but frankly there's too much random shit and inconsistencies thrown everywhere that I could never shake the feeling like the author was making it up as he went. For example, the Jaw Titan somehow gaining the ability to fly. Yes, jaws and wings, two things that are so obviously complementary.

 

[meiam]

So I was running out of stuff to watch this season and I went back and started watching gunslinger girl. It's really interesting watching these older-ish anime because directing changed so much in the last few decades. The pace is much slower but at the same time it feel like every scene is much more important. Like you'll have a 4 minutes scene where the character exchange maybe 20 words but you'll understand a lot about their relationship just trough thr pacing and scene composition. Today you'd have 3 scenes during that time with maybe 5 second of silence in total and all 3 would just repeat the same information that was explicitly explained to the viewer in the first one.

I don't think either way is inherently better, but it's really fun re-experiencing it.

 

[Drathnoxis]

It looks like the finale episode isnt out for a couple weeks, but man I've having trouble caring. The story is done. This is needless silly cheese.

Jeez still? I watched most of the first season and have been waiting, like, 10 years for it to end to watch the show.

Anyway, I have a really important question that's really bugging me all of a sudden: what is your avatar? It's a gif of some screen showing something, but what and why?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

So I was running out of stuff to watch this season and I went back and started watching gunslinger girl. It's really interesting watching these older-ish anime because directing changed so much in the last few decades. The pace is much slower but at the same time it feel like every scene is much more important. Like you'll have a 4 minutes scene where the character exchange maybe 20 words but you'll understand a lot about their relationship just trough thr pacing and scene composition. Today you'd have 3 scenes during that time with maybe 5 second of silence in total and all 3 would just repeat the same information that was explicitly explained to the viewer in the first one.

I don't think either way is inherently better, but it's really fun re-experiencing it.

This is something you'll also notice with a lot of Ghibli movies from decades ago with time being spent just looking at scenery in order to establish a mood.

 

[BrawlMan]

So I was running out of stuff to watch this season and I went back and started watching gunslinger girl. It's really interesting watching these older-ish anime because directing changed so much in the last few decades. The pace is much slower but at the same time it feel like every scene is much more important. Like you'll have a 4 minutes scene where the character exchange maybe 20 words but you'll understand a lot about their relationship just trough thr pacing and scene composition. Today you'd have 3 scenes during that time with maybe 5 second of silence in total and all 3 would just repeat the same information that was explicitly explained to the viewer in the first one.

I don't think either way is inherently better, but it's really fun re-experiencing it.

I watched that when I just graduated from high school. I didn't care much for it. I don't consider bad, but it did not do much for me overall. I never bothered with the second series. From what I heard, absolute shit. Another case of just stick with the original manga version.

 

[Piscian]

Jeez still? I watched most of the first season and have been waiting, like, 10 years for it to end to watch the show.

Anyway, I have a really important question that's really bugging me all of a sudden: what is your avatar? It's a gif of some screen showing something, but what and why?

I was screwing around with making my PC lighting Match DOOM 3, why? Because I like DOOM 3.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I was screwing around with making my PC lighting Match DOOM 3, why? Because I like DOOM 3.

Thought this was a rave club with the box to the right being a dancer box or something.

 

[meiam]

I watched that when I just graduated from high school. I didn't care much for it. I don't consider bad, but it did not do much for me overall. I never bothered with the second series. From what I heard, absolute shit. Another case of just stick with the original manga version.

2nd season was really strange because they essentially changed the entire staff so art wise and direction wise it's essentially another show. If someone watched the first season and just wanted a more generic action show they might like S2 better, but even then, there are far better action show.

This is something you'll also notice with a lot of Ghibli movies from decades ago with time being spent just looking at scenery in order to establish a mood.

Scenery in general seem to get much attention nowaday, which is a shame since like, you said, it really help establish mood without clubbing the viewer over the head with dialogue.