Why You Should Have Your Eye On Florida

Trunkage

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So, last night I was over at a friends house. They have some mice but one had died recently. My 4 year old kid noticed that the mouse. So we had to have a discussion about the mouse dying and it because it was old and sick. We spend a quick minute as adults discussing if now was the time for this sort if discussion

Now, I've seen similar thing happen around class pets and discussing death. I've even had to explain to kids that one of their friends died in a car accident

I've also been criticised for being harsh when discussing death with kids. Like, I'm not going to pretend bacon doesn't come from a pig. Im also pretty cranky when kids hurt any insect. But what they meant is that they wanted to use flowery language to explain a topic

All this is fine. We can have different opinions and approaches to discussing sensitive topics with kids, death. Or gender. Or love.

We can talk about it. But I'm probably going to stop listening once you claim people are grooming kids just for discussing gender
 

ObsidianJones

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Yes, I know... it literally says nothing

I actually have the same complaint about the organization that was pro-sex ed in Florida (can't remember the name). They used that similar terms to this law well before DeSantis was around - 'only teaching sexual orientation and gender identity at age appropriate levels'.... but DeSantis seems to think they're doing something wrong so created this law... while using the pro-sex ed's language to justify DeSantis law
No, my friend. It literally says everything you need for civil disobedience. Or, to show how stupid and short sighted people are.

Whole Bill

"Parental Rights in Education; Requires district school boards to adopt procedures that comport with certain provisions of law for notifying student's parent of specified information; requires such procedures to reinforce fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding upbringing & control of their children; prohibits school district from adopting procedures or student support forms that prohibit school district personnel from notifying parent about specified information or that encourage student to withhold from parent such information; prohibits school district personnel from discouraging or prohibiting parental notification & involvement in critical decisions affecting student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being; prohibits classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels; requires school districts to notify parents of healthcare services; authorizes parent to bring action against school district to obtain declaratory judgment; provides for additional award of injunctive relief, damages, & reasonable attorney fees & court costs to certain parents."

So let's have fun. Poke the Bear.

Have little Susie tell little Timmy (both in first grade) that she's a girl, and have the teacher confirm it.

But wait. Can the teacher confirm it?! Little Susie just declared herself a girl. Which is a Gender Identity. Positively off the table! IT'S AN IDENTITY!!!

Well, we can't talk about Mommy and Daddy. Because to have Mommy and Daddy, they had to fall in love and have the little children that are... going around... the school, wait a minute, how are children made? When Mommy and Daddy get together and... Why, That's Sexual Orientation! They are Heterosexual!!

All the books we can't read, all the Disney movies and book bags that can't be brought to class because it's promoting a Heterosexual lifestyle! "Grooming Kids" to be straight, one might say.

There's no girls and boys bathroom. That's a Gender Identity separation. Girls can't wear "Girls Rule, Boys Drool" shirts. She's claiming a gender and it will groom little boys who don't "want to drool" to decide to become a girl so no one thinks that they 'drool'. No Beyonce song "Girls Run the World", because it promotes a superior Gender and little Timmy, Chad, And Jaiquan will get upset.

And I do love how "Certain Parents" are in the bill. Vague enough that if LGBTQ parents tried to use this bill to fight this... Well... I don't know if you're the "certain" parent that this falls under.

By the way. This is all vague enough and not defined enough that there's no reason a semi decent lawyer could make a case if just one teacher slipped up and confirmed that little Susie is a girl. That a boys bathroom is only for boys. That girls wear dresses and not boys. That's all gender identity. The legal definition of it.

All children need to be addressed by "it/they" or else the teacher is reaffirming THEIR take on the kids Gender Identity. What if little Timmy says "No, I'm not a boy". Can't tell Timmy to stop talking, you as a teacher using he/him started the conversation. You presumed their Gender Identity. Just as if little Susie says "yes, I am a girl". STILL addressing Gender Identity, even if they comply with what you stated.

Poke the holes so they have to actually define what they want. Show them for the bigots that they are. Parents are idiots and they think so little of anyone that they can be convinced to be anything. No one told me I was going to be attracted to women. I was attracted to women. And guess what? If someone told me I was going to be attracted to boys, that wouldn't change my attraction to women now.

Let's talk about what this bill really is. It's a way to deny the world in Florida because people are uncomfortable. And before someone who doesn't or didn't live there tells me otherwise, I lived there. I've heard them. Because they don't shut up about their beliefs and fears and how the world is just so horrible now because the spotlight is on the other and not what they grew up with. That they need to be comfortable and everyone else can just shut up (A literal conversation I heard). A state will legally try to deny the world because they rather feel safe in their bubble than grow up and realize they have to get used to a world that isn't in their control and not made for their damn comfort.

Like anyone gave a damn that we've been grooming gay kids for fucking years. That families literally had to be split up because mothers and fathers couldn't live a lie any more and they needed to experience the love that they needed instead of the 'love' that was acceptable and that was expected.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Oh, my version of "basically" has substantially more information than yours, I'd wager

Fucking any excuse to get back on that soapbox huh
Show me in the law where it says teachers aren't allowed to teach students that if an adult is touching their parts they use to go to the bathroom outside of assisting them in the bathroom that they should tell an adult about it.

One thing that majorly increased child abuse is OK while one thing that doesn't do anything to increase child abuse is "crossing the line". That's literally your argument. I'm against things that increase child abuse, pretty simple principle isn't it?

Does the law say one way or another?

This law all started when a 13 year old, who wanted to transition, was banned from transitioning by parents, who went ahead and did it anyway. Then some school teachers were asking which bathroom they should be using. So the school teachers were deemed as 'grooming' and had a bunch of parents after their jobs

So no, unless its written in writing what will and wont be taught or it goes through many years of having this bill and there being no problems, I have no faith in them thinking saying 2 daddies to 8 years olds is sex stuff and should be banned. They're already claiming that teacher are grooming kids but not showing much proof
The law doesn't even apply to 13 year olds.

Have little Susie tell little Timmy (both in first grade) that she's a girl, and have the teacher confirm it.

But wait. Can the teacher confirm it?! Little Susie just declared herself a girl. Which is a Gender Identity. Positively off the table! IT'S AN IDENTITY!!!
Can a supreme court justice candidate confirm it? Because it looks like she couldn't either.

Also, that's a quite a stretch of interpretation of the law that isn't really close to what the words actually say. I didn't know "girl" is a sexual orientation or gender identity. Literally the definition of girl is a female child and female is a sex, not a gender identity or sexual orientation.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Also, that's a quite a stretch of interpretation of the law that isn't really close to what the words actually say. I didn't know "girl" is a sexual orientation or gender identity. Literally the definition of girl is a female child and female is a sex, not a gender identity or sexual orientation.
"Girl" is 100% a gender identity you muppet. I sincerely hope you aren't suggesting teachers sex the children before using pronouns

 
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TheMysteriousGX

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How is girl a GENDER identity or sexual orientation in any way?

View attachment 5837
View attachment 5839
Right. And how to you know that child's a girl without sticking your hand down their pants? Would it be the cultural stereotypes regarding hair, clothes, names, and behaviors? You know, "gender identity"?

This is the sort of shit that makes it sound like conservatives want to inspect genitals. "Gotta make sure that child has ovaries before I call it a girl donchaknow"
 

Trunkage

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No, my friend. It literally says everything you need for civil disobedience. Or, to show how stupid and short sighted people are.

Whole Bill

"Parental Rights in Education; Requires district school boards to adopt procedures that comport with certain provisions of law for notifying student's parent of specified information; requires such procedures to reinforce fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding upbringing & control of their children; prohibits school district from adopting procedures or student support forms that prohibit school district personnel from notifying parent about specified information or that encourage student to withhold from parent such information; prohibits school district personnel from discouraging or prohibiting parental notification & involvement in critical decisions affecting student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being; prohibits classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels; requires school districts to notify parents of healthcare services; authorizes parent to bring action against school district to obtain declaratory judgment; provides for additional award of injunctive relief, damages, & reasonable attorney fees & court costs to certain parents."

So let's have fun. Poke the Bear.

Have little Susie tell little Timmy (both in first grade) that she's a girl, and have the teacher confirm it.

But wait. Can the teacher confirm it?! Little Susie just declared herself a girl. Which is a Gender Identity. Positively off the table! IT'S AN IDENTITY!!!

Well, we can't talk about Mommy and Daddy. Because to have Mommy and Daddy, they had to fall in love and have the little children that are... going around... the school, wait a minute, how are children made? When Mommy and Daddy get together and... Why, That's Sexual Orientation! They are Heterosexual!!

All the books we can't read, all the Disney movies and book bags that can't be brought to class because it's promoting a Heterosexual lifestyle! "Grooming Kids" to be straight, one might say.

There's no girls and boys bathroom. That's a Gender Identity separation. Girls can't wear "Girls Rule, Boys Drool" shirts. She's claiming a gender and it will groom little boys who don't "want to drool" to decide to become a girl so no one thinks that they 'drool'. No Beyonce song "Girls Run the World", because it promotes a superior Gender and little Timmy, Chad, And Jaiquan will get upset.

And I do love how "Certain Parents" are in the bill. Vague enough that if LGBTQ parents tried to use this bill to fight this... Well... I don't know if you're the "certain" parent that this falls under.

By the way. This is all vague enough and not defined enough that there's no reason a semi decent lawyer could make a case if just one teacher slipped up and confirmed that little Susie is a girl. That a boys bathroom is only for boys. That girls wear dresses and not boys. That's all gender identity. The legal definition of it.

All children need to be addressed by "it/they" or else the teacher is reaffirming THEIR take on the kids Gender Identity. What if little Timmy says "No, I'm not a boy". Can't tell Timmy to stop talking, you as a teacher using he/him started the conversation. You presumed their Gender Identity. Just as if little Susie says "yes, I am a girl". STILL addressing Gender Identity, even if they comply with what you stated.

Poke the holes so they have to actually define what they want. Show them for the bigots that they are. Parents are idiots and they think so little of anyone that they can be convinced to be anything. No one told me I was going to be attracted to women. I was attracted to women. And guess what? If someone told me I was going to be attracted to boys, that wouldn't change my attraction to women now.

Let's talk about what this bill really is. It's a way to deny the world in Florida because people are uncomfortable. And before someone who doesn't or didn't live there tells me otherwise, I lived there. I've heard them. Because they don't shut up about their beliefs and fears and how the world is just so horrible now because the spotlight is on the other and not what they grew up with. That they need to be comfortable and everyone else can just shut up (A literal conversation I heard). A state will legally try to deny the world because they rather feel safe in their bubble than grow up and realize they have to get used to a world that isn't in their control and not made for their damn comfort.

Like anyone gave a damn that we've been grooming gay kids for fucking years. That families literally had to be split up because mothers and fathers couldn't live a lie any more and they needed to experience the love that they needed instead of the 'love' that was acceptable and that was expected.
I'm going to strongly say that I completely agree with this reading of the law...

It's just got nothing to do with what DeSantis is doing. You're assuming that the crackdown will follow laws. That's a really bad assumption
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Right. And how to you know that child's a girl without sticking your hand down their pants? Would it be the cultural stereotypes regarding hair, clothes, names, and behaviors? You know, "gender identity"?

This is the sort of shit that makes it sound like conservatives want to inspect genitals. "Gotta make sure that child has ovaries before I call it a girl donchaknow"
It all stems from the utter terror of accidentally finding an effeminate man attractive, and therefore being deemed "not macho". Gotta be sure on first glance!
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Hilarious

 

TheMysteriousGX

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Texas version of Florida's Don't Say Gay bill has the State Attorney General declaring a school's Pride Week illegal. You know, in case you were still on the fence about what these bills were actually about

 
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Buyetyen

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I love malicious compliance.

Texas version of Florida's Don't Say Gay bill has the State Attorney General declaring a school's Pride Week illegal. You know, in case you were still on the fence about what these bills were actually about

In before tone of the usual suspects calls it fake news.
 
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ObsidianJones

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World at Large, I'm really stumped. I honestly don't know which one to do.

This feels like a no brainer.

toldyouso-colbert.gif

But I also like this.


Admittedly it doesn't totally fit. But... it's Black Dynamite.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Right. And how to you know that child's a girl without sticking your hand down their pants? Would it be the cultural stereotypes regarding hair, clothes, names, and behaviors? You know, "gender identity"?

This is the sort of shit that makes it sound like conservatives want to inspect genitals. "Gotta make sure that child has ovaries before I call it a girl donchaknow"
Separating boys and girls in school isn't rocket science nor requires you to stick your hand down their pants.

Posting basic english definitions of simple words leads to inspecting genitals?


Yeah... it does. There just more 'restriction on a grade 3 level.' What specific restriction they are, no one can tell
States have ages where sex education is to be taught as well. What restrictions before that age is no one can tell either.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Separating boys and girls in school isn't rocket science nor requires you to stick your hand down their pants.

Posting basic english definitions of simple words leads to inspecting genitals?
When you believe "girl" isn't a gender identity and your definition was exclusively referring to internal sex organs that are non-obvious until *at least* puberty, yeah?
 
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Trunkage

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States have ages where sex education is to be taught as well. What restrictions before that age is no one can tell either.
Can't speak for the states. By in my state, actual intercouse sex educucation isnt usually taught in schools until age 12 (I've heard a year earlier). And it's just the mechanics, no 'safe sex' stuff or relationships until later. If you, as a teacher, talking about sex before then it will lead a suspension and possibly a firing. These sort of things are highly controlled by the principal and department. You talking about sex outside 3 or 4 sessions designated by the principal is inappropriate

I would love for DeSantis to come out and detail how sex education is dealt with different in Florida....

But that's not what DeSantis is talking about when he disucsses this bill. He specifically targeting talking about homosexuals or transgender to children grade 3 and under and claiming that teachers are grooming kids. (And I think it was Tulsi Gabbard who claimed talking about RACE was grooming kids.) It's not about sex education because otherwise you would be talking about heterosexuals as well.

And also I feel like we need to get the dictionary out and discuss the word grooming. Because there are some wild ideas about what that means to people

If you have seen the outcry to what the teachers have been doing in Florida since the bill was introduced, you'd also know that the parents wanting the bill just assumed this was targeting only homosexuals and transgender... but the teachers just applied what the bill said fairly to everyone. So those parents are back on the outcry train

So, no. This bill was never about sex or sex education (as in intercourse). With the proviso that I think DeSantis is just throwing a bunch of things together and calling it sex education

The bill has been written in such a way that just about anything can fall under its terms. But.... that was the whole point

So I CAN tell you the restrictions on sex education.... in my state. I will also note that this does not necessarily cover private school but they are all religious so I can't imagine them doing it earlier. But I don't have much data on that
 

tstorm823

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If you have seen the outcry to what the teachers have been doing in Florida since the bill was introduced, you'd also know that the parents wanting the bill just assumed this was targeting only homosexuals and transgender... but the teachers just applied what the bill said fairly to everyone. So those parents are back on the outcry train
You haven't seen an outcry to what the teachers have been doing in Florida since. You've seen a million internet lefties celebrating a single tweet with suggested behavior literally no teachers are going to employ.
 

dreng3

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If you aren't allowed to involve sex and gender in school are you not allowed to separate boys and girls when it comes to locker rooms and showers for PE?