Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

[Agema]

In this regard, I suppose I can only speak to my situation locally with any direct knowledge. In my part of the world, we are building more warehouses quite rapidly. I don't disagree with your assessment on the lessons learned from covid, but in just my limited experience, warehouses and distribution hubs have been big money for the last decade or so. Hell, we just got a shiny new gamestop warehouse, which is honestly a bit shocking on multiple levels, but it may just be an idiosyncrasy of this area as a pretty solid crossroads from 4 or 5 major cities.

Yes - you're right that there has been a huge growth in these things recently.

But they are largely distribution hubs, mostly connected to the increasing trend for online sales with direct home delivery and globalised supply as opposed to the older model of physical store retail with a lot more local. Goods go through them at a high rate: there's not much sitting around as stock. They tend to be located at places where they can reach the most amount of population in the shortest amount of time. In the old model, warehouses were more likely to be around ports or places of industrial production.

 

[Trunkage]

In this regard, I suppose I can only speak to my situation locally with any direct knowledge. In my part of the world, we are building more warehouses quite rapidly. I don't disagree with your assessment on the lessons learned from covid, but in just my limited experience, warehouses and distribution hubs have been big money for the last decade or so. Hell, we just got a shiny new gamestop warehouse, which is honestly a bit shocking on multiple levels, but it may just be an idiosyncrasy of this area as a pretty solid crossroads from 4 or 5 major cities.

That Gamestop is slightly suprising. But I do know people that only buy q hard copy and never want to use Steam, PSN store etc

I don't know other people in warehouses personally. I have heard this stuff second hand. Warehouses are.... demanding/yelling at business owners to move their stock because they cant run their associated factory otherwise. (Probably a dramatization.) This is in many Asian countries and Australia

The biggest issue is international shipping. It's been harder to fill a container consistently so... the business wants to wait as opposed to the warehouse wanting it out. And finding a container... and a ship. But you sound like your on the receiving end. I don't have as much input from that end

 

[Phoenixmgs]

No. Opening up after vaccines have done a lot of damage to my countries economy. My economy was going pretty well until we opened up. And it's going to kill people

Also, the US inflation problem is partially a problem NOW because restrictions have been reduced. The restriction did have impacts on the economy but no where near as much as not having restrictions. The restrictions were put in place to maintain the economy as best we could.

A lot of people are dying unrelated to COVID because we OPENED up. I.e. Now you've got people dying to Covid-19 AND all those issue you kept worry about. Domestic violence hasn't magically dropped. Nor has suicides. Everyone is having trouble finding the food they need. Pretending it's 2019 won't help anyone

Edit: And don't get me started on schools. This has been a useless fucked up year so far, significantly more than the last two, where my kids aren't learning much because teachers and kids are constantly sick

Why do you think there is inflation? Guess what, you can't just keep printing money. Yeah, people have died from issues unrelated due to covid because of covid restrictions. You think domestic violence lessened or mental health improved because of restrictions? Obesity has also increased because of covid restrictions, which will cost tons of years of life in the long run. How is slowing means of production helping produce as much or more of things? I don't get how people are constantly sick. In the 2021-2022 fall-spring period where everything was basically fully open, I had my normal 2 colds in that time (1 was a cold and 1 was covid) that I normally always have in a given cold season. And other people at work weren't more sick than ever, nor were any of my groups of friends. One time I got sick from my group of friends passing something around, the other time from guys at work passing something around. Pretty standard stuff.

Living like this is not healthy

 

[Phoenixmgs]

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Transmission through surfaces is known be low probability, now. But until this was firmly established it was (and to some extent remains) a reasonable precaution.



You say no-one knew what airborne means, because in virology there is a distinction between "aerosol" and "airborne". Aerosol was quickly established, airborne took much longer. Fucking hell. We've been over this months ago, do you not remember?



You certainly did for HCQ. You spent a huge amount of arguing for why it worked, presenting a ton of (bad) studies claiming so. And even when evidence mounted up showing its uselessness, you just retreated to smaller claims (e.g. that HCQ was useful but only in early covid). You were wrong. And now you're just lying about it.

For ivermectin you were a little more cautious, but you were still advocating mass drug taking defended against the balance of evidence for its effectiveness.

We knew from Chinese studies BEFORE covid came here that you didn't get it from surfaces. At my job, it was highly recommended from the very top IT director to use gloves to handle laptops coming back from work from home users, I didn't because it was pointless. We even had to keep these laptops in bags overnight before actually inventorying them so there was no covid, which I told my boss or we could just put them in the sun (since it was a nice day) for a couple minutes if people are so worried about covid, the sun will kill it in minutes. Which is more reasonable out of that (bags overnight or sun for a couple minutes) with regards to science?

I remember that nobody agrees on the exact droplet size needed to be airborne. Or you can just use common sense seeing how people still get infected with droplet protocols to know it's airborne like Taiwan did. What's funny is that assuming covid is airborne would have been far more reasonable than saying to wash your hands (even if found wrong later, it is a respiratory virus, it's not like it's jumping to wild conclusions to assume airborne).

I never said HCQ worked, I said it had mechanisms to work and that should be looked at. Also, if we studied steroids for covid as early treatment it would have showed it didn't work even though it works for late treatment. Showing that something doesn't work for late treatment doesn't mean it won't work for early treatment. That was my point the whole time. In wartime, you have to do things that you wouldn't do in peace time. Trying out extremely low risk drugs that have some reason for working isn't some horrible thing to do, at worst you'll get some placebo effect.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

In wartime, you have to do things that you wouldn't do in peace time.

Like quarantines?

Why do you think there is inflation?

Companies taking advantage of politics and gullible people to have the highest profit margins in history as modern lean staffing and supply has proven completely unable to deal with any sort of shock?

 

[Agema]

We knew from Chinese studies BEFORE covid came here that you didn't get it from surfaces.

Just like from those early HCQ studies you "knew" HCQ worked, right?

Do you not get it? Just because a study comes out saying something doesn't mean it's true, because studies aren't always wholly or even partially right. As you should have realised, having touted with great fanfare at least two studies that required retraction or major amendments.

At my job, it was highly recommended from the very top IT director to use gloves to handle laptops coming back from work from home users, I didn't because it was pointless.

This sounds to me like little more than you telling us that you are a potentially dangerous employee who disregards health and safety protocols on your own whim.

I remember that nobody agrees on the exact droplet size needed to be airborne.

And if you had the faintest idea what you were talking about, you'd understand that doesn't really matter. There's no binary state where something is an aerosol with certain properties, or a droplet with different properties. It's a continuum, where the boundary is one of necessary artficial convenience. There's a range where that boundary is reasonable to place.

Or you can just use common sense seeing how people still get infected with droplet protocols to know it's airborne like Taiwan did. What's funny is that assuming covid is airborne would have been far more reasonable than saying to wash your hands (even if found wrong later, it is a respiratory virus, it's not like it's jumping to wild conclusions to assume airborne).

I would suggest a basic safety assumption facing a dangerous new virus should be that it may spread by any credible route at all, because better safe than sorry.

I never said HCQ worked, I said it had mechanisms to work and that should be looked at

No, you very clearly spent a long time saying HCQ worked, and you were wrong. Own it.

Also, if we studied steroids for covid as early treatment it would have showed it didn't work even though it works for late treatment. Showing that something doesn't work for late treatment doesn't mean it won't work for early treatment. That was my point the whole time.

You didn't have a point the whole time. You had a number of points: because you kept moving the goalposts and then claiming that was what you meant all along.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Just like from those early HCQ studies you "knew" HCQ worked, right?

Do you not get it? Just because a study comes out saying something doesn't mean it's true, because studies aren't always wholly or even partially right. As you should have realised, having touted with great fanfare at least two studies that required retraction or major amendments.



This sounds to me like little more than you telling us that you are a potentially dangerous employee who disregards health and safety protocols on your own whim.



And if you had the faintest idea what you were talking about, you'd understand that doesn't really matter. There's no binary state where something is an aerosol with certain properties, or a droplet with different properties. It's a continuum, where the boundary is one of necessary artficial convenience. There's a range where that boundary is reasonable to place.



I would suggest a basic safety assumption facing a dangerous new virus should be that it may spread by any credible route at all, because better safe than sorry.



No, you very clearly spent a long time saying HCQ worked, and you were wrong. Own it.



You didn't have a point the whole time. You had a number of points: because you kept moving the goalposts and then claiming that was what you meant all along.

Where is there any study that shows it spreads through surfaces significantly?

If the safety protocols are pointless, there's no point in doing them. It's like how pointless the TSA is. What's the point in wearing gloves handling laptops that have a super low chance of transmitting covid when I also have natural immunity? I'm also by far, and it's not even close, the person that gets sick the least on my team at work, must be doing something right.

Covid is airborne and was very easily sussed out as being airborne from the beginning, those are facts.

Assuming airborne would have been better safe than sorry.

I never said it worked, I explained why it could work. The search function on the forum is pretty great, I'm sure you can find me saying it works if I said it worked.

Like quarantines?

Companies taking advantage of politics and gullible people to have the highest profit margins in history as modern lean staffing and supply has proven completely unable to deal with any sort of shock?

When have I said quarantines don't work?

Opinion | How Government Spending Fuels Inflation

When debt grows so much that people don’t believe the Treasury will pay it, they sell their bonds and buy other things, sending prices through the roof.

www.wsj.com

 

[Agema]

Where is there any study that shows it spreads through surfaces significantly?

There are studies that demonstrate that live virus can remain on surfaces for up to a few days (depending on the surface, climate, etc.), and transmission via touching infected surfaces is certainly possible. Therefore, it may be reasonable to take appropriate precautions.

If the safety protocols are pointless, there's no point in doing them. It's like how pointless the TSA is. What's the point in wearing gloves handling laptops that have a super low chance of transmitting covid when I also have natural immunity?

Once again, you fail to think beyond your own selfish interests. The point of infection control is to minimise spread of the virus. You may be immune but you can still get infected, become infectious, and transmit that to other people... who may not be immune. A more general point I would make is that it's not appropriate for you to ignore your workplace's safety protocols irrespective of what you personally think of their usefulness, or even their actual usefulness. I say that to you in large part for your own good, because your employer will not look upon it kindly should they find out.

Covid is airborne and was very easily sussed out as being airborne from the beginning, those are facts.

"Airborne", in this context, means spread long distance by aerosols (as opposed to short distance by droplets). This was unclear early in the outbreak, with a lack of hard evidence. One might argue that some bodies, particularly those heavily dominated by medics who can tend to underweigh types of non-medical scientific information, were quite conservative and slow in clearly accepting the airborne route. That said, most put out precautionary advice on the principle it might be airborne anyway.

You are claiming a quality of evidence that in truth just didn't exist at the time, and all the hindsight in the world didn't make the science at that time more certain.

 

[ko11b]

I wonder if they got there haterrix vaccination ??

Haterrix slogan

The world does not have time for haters
"F the haters"

Haterrix your number one source for ridding haters

Cuz the world does not have time for haters

 

[Phoenixmgs]

There are studies that demonstrate that live virus can remain on surfaces for up to a few days (depending on the surface, climate, etc.), and transmission via touching infected surfaces is certainly possible. Therefore, it may be reasonable to take appropriate precautions.



Once again, you fail to think beyond your own selfish interests. The point of infection control is to minimise spread of the virus. You may be immune but you can still get infected, become infectious, and transmit that to other people... who may not be immune. A more general point I would make is that it's not appropriate for you to ignore your workplace's safety protocols irrespective of what you personally think of their usefulness, or even their actual usefulness. I say that to you in large part for your own good, because your employer will not look upon it kindly should they find out.



"Airborne", in this context, means spread long distance by aerosols (as opposed to short distance by droplets). This was unclear early in the outbreak, with a lack of hard evidence. One might argue that some bodies, particularly those heavily dominated by medics who can tend to underweigh types of non-medical scientific information, were quite conservative and slow in clearly accepting the airborne route. That said, most put out precautionary advice on the principle it might be airborne anyway.

You are claiming a quality of evidence that in truth just didn't exist at the time, and all the hindsight in the world didn't make the science at that time more certain.

Yes, we had studies showing you can find it like months later on cruise ships 2 years ago, that doesn't mean you can catch it from that. People are not catching covid in any significant manner from surfaces. What appropriate precautions are even needed? None that I can see. If there's like a 0.1% chance of catching covid from a surface and a 0.1% chance of getting severe covid, why would I care about taking precautions against that super low chance of something bad happening?

Doing things that will have very very very tiny impact on covid spread is not worth it most of the time. We already saw the bad effects of using sanitizer. There's pros and cons to everything. The thing that should've been focused on the most was ventilation as that would have the biggest impact and it was focused on the least. Prioritize the bigger impact measures over the low impact measures, but the opposite was done. I ignore anything that's stupid at work. It's been probably at least 6 months that the hospitals I work at have required surgical masks, I haven't worn one the entire time, only like 3 people the whole time asked me to put one on. My boss even highly recommended wearing masks in the IT room during the omicron wave and then asked me why I wasn't wearing one and I said you recommended it but didn't require it thus I'm not wearing one.

Airborne was 1) something that should be assumed and 2) something that several medical professions were pretty sure it was very early on.

 

[Agema]

Yes, we had studies showing you can find it like months later on cruise ships 2 years ago, that doesn't mean you can catch it from that. People are not catching covid in any significant manner from surfaces. What appropriate precautions are even needed? None that I can see. If there's like a 0.1% chance of catching covid from a surface and a 0.1% chance of getting severe covid, why would I care about taking precautions against that super low chance of something bad happening?

That's fine, you can make your choice for yourself. And everyone else can make their choice for themselves.

I do however note, again, that your consideration goes absolutely no further than yourself, which is what I mean by selfishness.

My boss even highly recommended wearing masks in the IT room during the omicron wave and then asked me why I wasn't wearing one and I said you recommended it but didn't require it thus I'm not wearing one.

And again, the idea that you might get infected and cough out virus on someone else appears completely beyond your interest. Because you just don't think beyond yourself.

 

[Dreiko]

So I got through covid, it was my time I guess, a family member got it and I caught it from them despite trying to quarantine, both vaccinated. It was the least bad cold of my entire life, just was lightly feverish for 2 days and then had a cough for another 3. Not sure if it was because of the vaccine or omicron being less severe or what have you but I have real big difficulty believing people legit die from this, but either way now I feel invincible like how I did back before covid, so there's a silver lining I guess. Here's hoping those antibodies last longer than the vaccines do lol. Ah well, at least I won't have to go crazy with washing my groceries before storing them and wearing a mask any more.

 

[bluegate]

but I have real big difficulty believing people legit die from this

Might want to go and see a doctor of the mental kind if you are having trouble believing reality; the entire world didn't go apeshit for nothing, countries didn't start tracking infections and deaths for nothing, etc, etc, etc.

Good to hear that you recovered from it with only a mild set of symptoms.

 

[thebobmaster]

I also hope, and I mean this sincerely, you don't suffer long-term effects like quite a few COVID victims. Brain fog can be an absolute *****.

ETA: Apparently, they censor on here, now. That last word is a term for a dog of the feminine persuasion.

 

[BrawlMan]

I also hope, and I mean this sincerely, you don't suffer long-term effects like quite a few COVID victims. Brain fog can be an absolute *****.

ETA: Apparently, they censor on here, now. That last word is a term for a dog of the feminine persuasion.

There are ways around this. The forum won't censor the word bitches. Also, if you use the letter i with an italic on top of it, it won't censor that either. You can also use biatch.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

That's fine, you can make your choice for yourself. And everyone else can make their choice for themselves.

I do however note, again, that your consideration goes absolutely no further than yourself, which is what I mean by selfishness.



And again, the idea that you might get infected and cough out virus on someone else appears completely beyond your interest. Because you just don't think beyond yourself.

I see 90+% of the population doing things way more deadly everyday than the risk from covid on surfaces. If something is 0.5% dangerous and you do it daily, why would you be concerned about something that is 0.05% dangerous? The thing is people have little concept of the actual risk of things. Just look at the polls at what people think the chance of having to go to the hospital over covid is (vs the actual risk).

Data that masks stop infections? Also, I was the last person on our team to catch covid when we all passed it around so who on the team was I gonna infect?

So I got through covid, it was my time I guess, a family member got it and I caught it from them despite trying to quarantine, both vaccinated. It was the least bad cold of my entire life, just was lightly feverish for 2 days and then had a cough for another 3. Not sure if it was because of the vaccine or omicron being less severe or what have you but I have real big difficulty believing people legit die from this, but either way now I feel invincible like how I did back before covid, so there's a silver lining I guess. Here's hoping those antibodies last longer than the vaccines do lol. Ah well, at least I won't have to go crazy with washing my groceries before storing them and wearing a mask any more.

I much prefer covid over a cold or flu, it's less annoying and goes away faster. It's not just antibodies, it's T and B cells too. The whole obsession with anti-body counts is beyond ridiculous. You never had to wash your groceries in the 1st place or if you were that concerned, just leave in the sun for a few minutes = dead covid.

Might want to go and see a doctor of the mental kind if you are having trouble believing reality; the entire world didn't go apeshit for nothing, countries didn't start tracking infections and deaths for nothing, etc, etc, etc.

Good to hear that you recovered from it with only a mild set of symptoms.

Yeah, there's been no reality that you have to clean your groceries to not get infected from covid, Dreiko should seek help...

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I see 90+% of the population doing things way more deadly everyday than the risk from covid on surfaces. If something is 0.5% dangerous and you do it daily, why would you be concerned about something that is 0.05% dangerous? The thing is people have little concept of the actual risk of things. Just look at the polls at what people think the chance of having to go to the hospital over covid is (vs the actual risk).

Yeah dude, we also stop people from randomly firing guns into the air despite the relatively low chance it hurts somebody.

I much prefer covid over a cold or flu, it's less annoying and goes away faster. It's not just antibodies, it's T and B cells too.

What fresh hell is this?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah dude, we also stop people from randomly firing guns into the air despite the relatively low chance it hurts somebody.

What fresh hell is this?

Randomly firing guns into the air is bad not because anyone can get hurt from firing the gun in the air but because the gun might not actually get shot into the air and someone may pull the trigger before or after pointing it in the air.

Like the other 2/3s of how your body fights infections. T-cells basically kill stuff on site and B-cells remember what antibodies work so your immune system doesn't have to brute force the "lock" every time you get the same infection.

Not just antibodies: B cells and T cells mediate immunity to COVID-19 - Nature Reviews Immunology

Here, Cox and Brokstad briefly discuss T cell- and B cell-mediated immunity to SARS-CoV-2, stressing that a lack of serum antibodies does not necessarily equate with a lack of immunity to the virus.

www.nature.com

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Randomly firing guns into the air is bad not because anyone can get hurt from firing the gun in the air but because the gun might not actually get shot into the air and someone may pull the trigger before or after pointing it in the air.

Like the other 2/3s of how your body fights infections. T-cells basically kill stuff on site and B-cells remember what antibodies work so your immune system doesn't have to brute force the "lock" every time you get the same infection.

Not just antibodies: B cells and T cells mediate immunity to COVID-19 - Nature Reviews Immunology

Here, Cox and Brokstad briefly discuss T cell- and B cell-mediated immunity to SARS-CoV-2, stressing that a lack of serum antibodies does not necessarily equate with a lack of immunity to the virus.

www.nature.com

Hey, did you end up getting covid at any point? Asking for brain fog reasons