Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Dwarvenhobble

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You do realize it's just a reporting tool right? It doesn't actually create or suggest characters. It simply attempts to provide a summary of information about choices the dev team already made.

Companies break down literally everything about their products (and customer interaction with said products) into data literally every day. The fact that some C-suite decided to try adding one more metric to their existing big data pile should surprise no one.

Honest question, how does this tool offend you?
"Oh do be quiet number 6 we in the village are trying to sleep."

 

Phoenixmgs

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Dwarvenhobble

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Hyperbolic entirely unrelated nonsense from Dwarven? Why I never...

If you have a point to make (doubtful), actually state it.
You don't get that some people might object to being reduced down to numbers based on immutable characteristics in the name of diversity such that said characteristics are their entire worth to the company rather than who they are as a person?

Or to quote the Prisoner

"I am not a number, I am a free man"
 

Silvanus

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You do realize it's just a reporting tool right? It doesn't actually create or suggest characters. It simply attempts to provide a summary of information about choices the dev team already made.

Companies break down literally everything about their products (and customer interaction with said products) into data literally every day. The fact that some C-suite decided to try adding one more metric to their existing big data pile should surprise no one.

Honest question, how does this tool offend you?
I'm somewhat miffed at the idea that "ethnicity", "sexual orientation", "gender" etc can be assigned a numerical value for how 'diverse' they are. It implies a preferential ranking system, which is all kinds of nope. Plus, reducing this kind of thing to numbered grades is the essence of tokenism.
 

Phoenixmgs

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I'm somewhat miffed at the idea that "ethnicity", "sexual orientation", "gender" etc can be assigned a numerical value for how 'diverse' they are. It implies a preferential ranking system, which is all kinds of nope. Plus, reducing this kind of thing to numbered grades is the essence of tokenism.
Diversity can definitely be rated on a numerical value ;)

 
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Avnger

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I'm somewhat miffed at the idea that "ethnicity", "sexual orientation", "gender" etc can be assigned a numerical value for how 'diverse' they are. It implies a preferential ranking system, which is all kinds of nope. Plus, reducing this kind of thing to numbered grades is the essence of tokenism.

Diversity can definitely be rated on a numerical value ;)


Yes and no. It really entirely depends on how it's implemented which we've actually heard zero details on.

Does it assign a "ranking" or does it merely aggregate the data? Is the result then used as a quota system or as a guardrail against internal biases? Does it highlight particular characters in particular games as "not being diverse enough" or does it look at a more overarching and "anonymized" picture of all characters for all games produced by a studio? At the end of the day, data is simply data. How it's used is what matters.

The position that companies, in general, have a poor track record of using similar data properly and therefore Ubisoft shouldn't be trusted to do so in this case is certainly a fair argument. However, let's acknowledge that's at least somewhat based on corporate behavior assumptions rather than a problem with this tool itself.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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For all their reputation of being cop hating, police defending, woke anarchists, the Dems really can't stop sucking cop dick
 
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Silvanus

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Yes and no. It really entirely depends on how it's implemented which we've actually heard zero details on.

Does it assign a "ranking" or does it merely aggregate the data? Is the result then used as a quota system or as a guardrail against internal biases? Does it highlight particular characters in particular games as "not being diverse enough" or does it look at a more overarching and "anonymized" picture of all characters for all games produced by a studio? At the end of the day, data is simply data. How it's used is what matters.
The graphic that they themselves used to explain the tool shows values assigned for those characteristics for individual characters. So it's not merely in aggregate, and not anonymised. Zarya gets about a 5/10 "gender identity" points, and Lucio gets about 2 or 3/10 "culture" points plus about 5 for "ethnicity".

Like... what the fuck are those values even judging?!
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Yes and no. It really entirely depends on how it's implemented which we've actually heard zero details on.

Does it assign a "ranking" or does it merely aggregate the data? Is the result then used as a quota system or as a guardrail against internal biases? Does it highlight particular characters in particular games as "not being diverse enough" or does it look at a more overarching and "anonymized" picture of all characters for all games produced by a studio? At the end of the day, data is simply data. How it's used is what matters.

The position that companies, in general, have a poor track record of using similar data properly and therefore Ubisoft shouldn't be trusted to do so in this case is certainly a fair argument. However, let's acknowledge that's at least somewhat based on corporate behavior assumptions rather than a problem with this tool itself.
It was a joke because it has truth to it to some degree, not that you can put an exact number on it (or even care to) but you can identify it.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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For all their reputation of being cop hating, police defending, woke anarchists, the Dems really can't stop sucking cop dick
Are you shocked really?

When they weren't in power then Cops were an oppositional force merely stopping them carrying out the often discussed wishes to drag people from their homes.

Now they have power the cops work for them and are seen as allies able to be used to pull "The wrong people" from their homes for the powers that be should they want to.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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May 26, 2020
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The graphic that they themselves used to explain the tool shows values assigned for those characteristics for individual characters. So it's not merely in aggregate, and not anonymised. Zarya gets about a 5/10 "gender identity" points, and Lucio gets about 2 or 3/10 "culture" points plus about 5 for "ethnicity".

Like... what the fuck are those values even judging?!
Also some-one pointed out being a one eyed partially disabled dwarf only scores you 50% the diversity points as compared to just being a female character does lol
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Are you shocked really?

When they weren't in power then Cops were an oppositional force merely stopping them carrying out the often discussed wishes to drag people from their homes.

Now they have power the cops work for them and are seen as allies able to be used to pull "The wrong people" from their homes for the powers that be should they want to.
...the Democrats often discussed wishes to drag people out of their homes? And now that the Dems are in charge, cops like the Dems now?

What trucker pirate radio station did you hear that from?
 
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Hawki

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Honest question, how does this tool offend you?

That's why. I wouldn't say it "offends" me, but it sure as hell irritates me, in part for the reasons the dev described.

You do realize it's just a reporting tool right? It doesn't actually create or suggest characters. It simply attempts to provide a summary of information about choices the dev team already made.
I checked the post (what's left of it), I can't see a claim of that. The stated goal is "to make characters more diverse and inclusive." That's a statement of creative intent, not a statement of evaluation.

Companies break down literally everything about their products (and customer interaction with said products) into data literally every day. The fact that some C-suite decided to try adding one more metric to their existing big data pile should surprise no one.
You're right, they do, and it's irritating as hell. Everyone let out a creative groan when Overstrike got turned into Fuse for instance due to focus groups, Overwatch doesn't get a free pass for a similar thing.

In an ideal world, creatives would be able to create. Course we don't live in an ideal world, and companies aren't indefinite money sinks. But we can laugh at them in the meantime.
 
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Gordon_4

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That's why. I wouldn't say it "offends" me, but it sure as hell irritates me, in part for the reasons the dev described.



I checked the post (what's left of it), I can't see a claim of that. The stated goal is "to make characters more diverse and inclusive." That's a statement of creative intent, not a statement of evaluation.



You're right, they do, and it's irritating as hell. Everyone let out a creative groan when Overstrike got turned into Fuse for instance due to focus groups, Overwatch doesn't get a free pass for a similar thing.

In an ideal world, creatives would be able to create. Course we don't live in an ideal world, and companies aren't indefinite money sinks. But we can laugh at them in the meantime.
The only thing that struck me as potentially useful about it is that say you’re a creative and you want a new character for the current project but the old writers block has hit. So you run up this tool and hit a randomise button that spits out between five and ten traits that can broadly describe a person. Rinse repeat until something - even just one trait - clicks in your head because at that point the rest will in all likelihood flow naturally from the reinvigorated creative process.
 

Gordon_4

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Hawki

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Congrats Australia. I have relatives there too.

Um, thanks? Not sure how this is "woke" per se. Labor certainly isn't woke. The Greens are a bit, but thankfully tend to remain focus on their core issues (the environment).

Anyway, I'm glad that Labor's in, mainly on the premise that they're a better fit to deal with the climate crisis than the COALition. Not perfect, but I'll take what I can get.
 
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Gergar12

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Um, thanks? Not sure how this is "woke" per se. Labor certainly isn't woke. The Greens are a bit, but thankfully tend to remain focus on their core issues (the environment).

Anyway, I'm glad that Labor's in, mainly on the premise that they're a better fit to deal with the climate crisis than the COALition. Not perfect, but I'll take what I can get.
I am just too lazy to create a thread.
 

Gordon_4

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I am just too lazy to create a thread.
I personally don’t think our election warrants one. Like it’s important to us, but by and large we’re a junior player in world politics so there’s very little meat for an international audience to chew on about the whole affair.
 
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