Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

[TheMysteriousGX]

If you setup your mirrors properly, why do you need a blindspot indicator? I've been driving for over 20 years and I only use my mirrors when changing lanes (and I change lanes all the time) and never caused an accident. I'm either the luckiest person that ever lived or the more likely scenario is that my method actually works.

Yeah, you're actually a lucky ************ and have probably been unknowingly cutting people off for 20 years. I applaud their defensive driving skills. Check your damn mirrors every now and again, even if you aren't changing lanes, and realize that you have blind spots regardless of how you set up your mirrors. EDIT: Manually check your blind spots when you actually change lanes, *you specifically* are why blind spot indicators exist. Trucks still have blind spots despite having mirrors that look like sc-fi laser arrays, you ain't special.

But what do I know, I've only been driving for 20 years and professionally driving for 10

 

[BrawlMan]

That's his stance. "What are you all worried about? I'm fine!"

Our meaning of fine is nowhere near his definition of "fine".

 

[Agema]

Tracing back thousands of infections

Yes, but you don't understand these studies and are too incompetent to interpret them sensibly. The conclusions you draw from them are irrationally extreme: effectively that you "can't" get covid from the outdoors or surfaces. But in fact in both cases you can: the likelihood is just considerably lower.

This then exists in the context that in the other thread you claim you favour whatever causes the lowest harm. What causes the lowest harm is mitigating spread at no meaningful cost. So... mask up if the situation warrants and observe reasonable hand hygeine. Even if it's only a 5% reduction in spread, that's a 5% reduction in harm.

Your argument amounts to "I can't be arsed, and I want to justify why I can't be arsed". This is nothing to do with actual harm and risk, it's all about what you want to do.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Oh, I didn't realise you were personally fine. Well that's that then, let's stop all the restrictions.

So was everyone else... but I guess you missed that. I also have 4 friends that are teachers all at different schools and no major issues with school not being able to be open because too many were sick. The one friend's school went remote for a couple weeks over gun issues, not covid.

Yeah, you're actually a lucky ************ and have probably been unknowingly cutting people off for 20 years. I applaud their defensive driving skills. Check your damn mirrors every now and again, even if you aren't changing lanes, and realize that you have blind spots regardless of how you set up your mirrors. EDIT: Manually check your blind spots when you actually change lanes, *you specifically* are why blind spot indicators exist. Trucks still have blind spots despite having mirrors that look like sc-fi laser arrays, you ain't special.

But what do I know, I've only been driving for 20 years and professionally driving for 10

I don't cut people off, I can see them in the mirrors... I'd be getting honked at all the time if was cutting people off (people definitely honk in Chicagoland). There are literally no blindspots if you set up your mirrors properly. I have the mirrors setup so there is overlapping in the rear mirror and the side mirrors when looking at traffic behind me and I have the side mirrors setup so that if the car is not in my side mirrors and it's next to me, it's in my peripheral vision. It's really easy to test this out at stop lights as cars pull up next to you at the light. The only issue that I have to pay attention to is if I'm on a more than 2 lane highway and I'm in the far left/right lane, the mirrors can't see 2 lanes over if some guy from the other far lane is also changing into the middle lane at the same time I am and that's the only thing I have to watch for that isn't in my mirrors. I also technically drive professionally too, I get paid for driving.

Yes, but you don't understand these studies and are too incompetent to interpret them sensibly. The conclusions you draw from them are irrationally extreme: effectively that you "can't" get covid from the outdoors or surfaces. But in fact in both cases you can: the likelihood is just considerably lower.

This then exists in the context that in the other thread you claim you favour whatever causes the lowest harm. What causes the lowest harm is mitigating spread at no meaningful cost. So... mask up if the situation warrants and observe reasonable hand hygeine. Even if it's only a 5% reduction in spread, that's a 5% reduction in harm.

Your argument amounts to "I can't be arsed, and I want to justify why I can't be arsed". This is nothing to do with actual harm and risk, it's all about what you want to do.

I never said you literally can't get covid outside or from surfaces. However, the chances of you getting covid from those is so unlikely, it's not something one should worry about. Because if you do worry about your safety that much (not just for covid but also for everything else), you wouldn't be able to function in society. You should not feel in danger talking to someone outside or touching a door knob. Neither of those confer a 5% reduction in harm. I've observed reasonable hand hygiene my whole life, I've never gotten sick or infection from touching things, why would I change that for covid?

 

[XsjadoBlaydette]

So was everyone else... but I guess you missed that.

Coronavirus Death Toll and Trends - Worldometer

Updated total and statistics, graphs and charts tracking the total number of deaths, deaths per day, and death by country from the Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) originating from Wuhan, China

www.worldometers.info

You willfully ignorant fool.

 

[Silvanus]

So was everyone else... but I guess you missed that.

Sorry, did you just say that "everyone else" was also fine in Autumn 2021 - Spring 2022?

Because they weren't. Millions died.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Because they weren't. Millions died.

But none of those millions were Phoenixmgs, so who cares?

 

[Agema]

I never said you literally can't get covid outside or from surfaces. However, the chances of you getting covid from those is so unlikely, it's not something one should worry about.

Firstly, we don't know what the possibility is of contracting covid from surfaces in any significant detail. Secondly, it depends on what you are doing: if your job involves handling things which lots of people have touched, breathed and coughed over, your risk of transmission from surfaces is understandably going to be significantly higher than average.

Because if you do worry about your safety that much (not just for covid but also for everything else), you wouldn't be able to function in society.

This statement isn't really an argument.

I've never knowingly gotten sick or infection from touching things

Fixed that for you, because you have absolutely no way of determining whether that is true.

 

[bluegate]

To the surprise of absolutely no one;

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Coronavirus Death Toll and Trends - Worldometer

Updated total and statistics, graphs and charts tracking the total number of deaths, deaths per day, and death by country from the Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) originating from Wuhan, China

www.worldometers.info

View attachment 6300

You willfully ignorant fool.

Sorry, did you just say that "everyone else" was also fine in Autumn 2021 - Spring 2022?

Because they weren't. Millions died.

But none of those millions were Phoenixmgs, so who cares?

Nice way to completely move the goalposts of the issue. Trunkage claimed everyone was constantly sick and schools couldn't stay open or run properly (something along those lines). I said none of my groups (not just me personally...) had that issue at all and I know 4 teachers all working at different schools, none of their schools had kids/faculty constantly sick. Also, another friend coaches girls indoor soccer and none of his games had to be moved or canceled because of covid.

The amount of life lost to covid restrictions? Every single cost-benefit analysis puts more life lost due to restrictions than covid itself. Nobody will put forth any evidence that restrictions actually save lives.

Firstly, we don't know what the possibility is of contracting covid from surfaces in any significant detail. Secondly, it depends on what you are doing: if your job involves handling things which lots of people have touched, breathed and coughed over, your risk of transmission from surfaces is understandably going to be significantly higher than average.

This statement isn't really an argument.

Fixed that for you, because you have absolutely no way of determining whether that is true.

Literally what job entails handling things people are coughing on regularly? I've asked this coughing question like a million times, when was the last time you actually had someone cough on you? People act like masks protect you from coughing when nobody coughs on people to begin with, they cough in their arm/fist, off to the side, or whatever. I literally can't recall the last time I've been coughed on. Also, if anyone does have to cough with a mask on, they take it off and cough off to the side because coughing a mask is not something anyone does, like who sneezes in a mask?

Yeah it is. If X is has say a 0.001% chance of causing some serious thing that you do normally, why would you be concerned about Y having a 0.0001% chance of causing the same serious thing? When you put emotions to such things like X and Y is when you act irrationally.

Yeah, I do because I literally don't get sick from much of anything. I have like 2 head colds a year in the fall-winter-spring and that is literally it. I don't have any allergies, I've never gotten the stomach bug, I don't even get headaches. Maybe I follow the things that make sense to do vs the theater bullshit.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The amount of life lost to covid restrictions? Every single cost-benefit analysis puts more life lost due to restrictions than covid itself. Nobody will put forth any evidence that restrictions actually save lives.

I call immediate bullshit on the idea that lockdowns caused more than 6.3 million deaths

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I call immediate bullshit on the idea that lockdowns caused more than 6.3 million deaths

But we don't count life as living, a year of life is about tree fiddy on the open market. How much have we lost? How can we justify this to ourselves?

 

[Agema]

Literally what job entails handling things people are coughing on regularly?

Have you ever looked at a computer screen and seen lots of small spots on it? Do you know what those spots are? They're mostly dried blobs of saliva, mucus and the like from people sitting in front of the screen, breathing, talking, coughing or eating. Now imagine their keyboard and mouse, right under their mouth, and how much that's got on it. So for instance the IT guy who comes in sorts out people's computers, replaces their peripherals and so on is likely to spend plenty of time putting their hands over stuff covered in dried droplets from people's respiratory system. Lovely.

I've asked this coughing question like a million times, when was the last time you actually had someone cough on you?

It's not so much the coughing, it's the basic breathing and talking. Most of this is a fine mist we don't usually notice - although breathe over a pane of glass: notice the condensation on it? Talk to someone not that far away, and you can definitely sometimes notice little flecks of fluid flying out, and we've surely all felt spatter in the face from someone speaking close enough.

Yeah it is. If X is has say a 0.001% chance of causing some serious thing that you do normally

Oh god, can you please hold an idea in your head for more than three days so that we don't have to constantly repeat stuff.

Yeah, I do because I literally don't get sick from much of anything. I have like 2 head colds a year in the fall-winter-spring

...and you've absolutely no idea how you got them. For all you know, they may have been from fomites.

 

[Silvanus]

Nice way to completely move the goalposts of the issue. Trunkage claimed everyone was constantly sick and schools couldn't stay open or run properly (something along those lines). I said none of my groups (not just me personally...) had that issue at all and I know 4 teachers all working at different schools, none of their schools had kids/faculty constantly sick. Also, another friend coaches girls indoor soccer and none of his games had to be moved or canceled because of covid.

I am truly sorry for failing to realise that when you said "everybody else was fine", you actually didn't mean the words you said. My bad.

The amount of life lost to covid restrictions? Every single cost-benefit analysis puts more life lost due to restrictions than covid itself.

This is so utterly, completely, obviously untrue, so much so it's genuinely ludicrous that anybody would believe it, even for a second.

Nobody will put forth any evidence that restrictions actually save lives.

As I have to keep reminding you: you have already been provided with this evidence numerous times. You've either ignored it or dismissed it based on exceptionally poor understanding of data/research.

Have you ever looked at a computer screen and seen lots of small spots on it? Do you know what those spots are? They're mostly dried blobs of saliva, mucus and the like from people sitting in front of the screen, breathing, talking, coughing or eating. Now imagine their keyboard and mouse, right under their mouth, and how much that's got on it. So for instance the IT guy who comes in sorts out people's computers, replaces their peripherals and so on is likely to spend plenty of time putting their hands over stuff covered in dried droplets from people's respiratory system. Lovely.

Not to mention anybody who works in an office with a hot-desking system.

 

[Agema]

This is so utterly, completely, obviously untrue, so much so it's genuinely ludicrous that anybody would believe it, even for a second.

They actually say that the financial cost of covid lockdowns were higher than the financial value of lives saved when using conventional financial values of human life. And that's where things start getting very complicated.

We obviously run into the issue that what the financial value of a human life actually is: it is, obviously, extremely abstract. We also need to take into account what the likely counterfactual would be of covid being left to run rampant - because that too would have been extremely disruptive (many more deaths, potentially collapsed healthcare system, mass workplace absenteeism anyway, etc.)

Also, we're sort of talking about estimated projections, where it gets even more blurry. Let's say that education correlates with lifespan (better educated people live longer). One might therefore be able to perform an abstract sort of analysis where a year of schooling equals however many notional years of life. However, there's an obvious problem with this: if everyone under 18 loses a year of education... they've got a lot of time to catch it up, not necessarily in a direct like-for-like fashion. There cannot be an assumption that the loss of education is irrecoverable. The same applies to many other factors (e.g. obesity - you can of course lose weight). Plus that all sorts of other confounding factors exist for any and all, which mean these correlations are far less certain than anyone should think.

In short, these sorts of cost-benefit analyses can be interesting in certain ways, but absolutely do not effectively make the point Phoenixmgs wants them to.

 

[Silvanus]

In short, these sorts of cost-benefit analyses can be interesting in certain ways, but absolutely do not effectively make the point Phoenixmgs wants them to.

If he was even talking about financial loss, that would be one thing; at least there it's difficult to quantify, a lot of grey area. But he specifically said the restrictions led to more life lost.

 

[Catfood220]

So, I went to Download Festival last weekend. For those not in the know, Download is Britain's biggest rock and metal festival that happens over 5 days and has thousands of people there. Now as you can imagine, there is no social distancing, especially when the bands are playing. No masks and questionable hygiene for the whole weekend. I don't believe that I didn't come into contact with someone who was at least carrying covid with them all weekend.

So, now is the waiting game. If I don't get covid after this weekend, then I am never going to get it and will just have to come to the conclusion that I am invulnerable and will possibly live forever.

 

[tippy2k2]

So, I went to Download Festival last weekend. For those not in the know, Download is Britain's biggest rock and metal festival that happens over 5 days and has thousands of people there. Now as you can imagine, there is no social distancing, especially when the bands are playing. No masks and questionable hygiene for the whole weekend. I don't believe that I didn't come into contact with someone who was at least carrying covid with them all weekend.

So, now is the waiting game. If I don't get covid after this weekend, then I am never going to get it and will just have to come to the conclusion that I am invulnerable and will possibly live forever.

 

[Silvanus]

So, I went to Download Festival last weekend. For those not in the know, Download is Britain's biggest rock and metal festival that happens over 5 days and has thousands of people there. Now as you can imagine, there is no social distancing, especially when the bands are playing. No masks and questionable hygiene for the whole weekend. I don't believe that I didn't come into contact with someone who was at least carrying covid with them all weekend.

So, now is the waiting game. If I don't get covid after this weekend, then I am never going to get it and will just have to come to the conclusion that I am invulnerable and will possibly live forever.

That's cool. My flatmates were there. A lot of it isn't really my jam music-wise, though I would've liked to see Biffy Clyro and Miles Kennedy.

 

[Seanchaidh]