Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Silvanus

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Again, do I need to prove other common sense things like pizza is a popular food?
What you consider common sense and what actually is common sense have a distant relationship.

It's been encouraged now to accept being obese and not to shame obese people instead of telling them that maybe they should eat healthy... Mysterious posted a bullshit science about how being overweight is beneficial in another thread for example.
Do you believe this is the right approach?

There's only been like one large study on it, which could have poor methods like how the following Swedish study had to be corrected and it looks like the one major study that says GRS is good used the same type of methods as the study that was corrected.
No, there's been quite a depth of research on it, actually. As soon as studies are provided to you, you'll start either 1) dismissing them out-of-hand based on poor understanding, or 2) ignoring them and then insisting you were never provided them to begin with. So I'm not going to bother falling down that particular rabbit hole.

The link you've provided is to an anti-trans thinktank, so fuck that and fuck them.
 

Terminal Blue

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For example, body integrity dysphoria is generally met with attempts at therapy to get them to stop believing they need to change, and surgically altering them in line with their beliefs about themselves is considered ethically contentious at the very best.
Body integrity dysphoria, or indeed body dysphoria, has absolutely no similarity to gender dysphoria except in the most superficial sense that it involves a person being distressed (which is what dysphoria means) over the way their body looks, and the fact it's one of the stock transphobic talking points people love to wheel out to justify their irrational feelings about trans people.

Firstly, body integrity dysphoria is incredibly rare. So rare that the body of observed evidence about it is much lower than gender dysphoria or body dysphoria. However, people with body integrity dysphoria don't just want to get their limbs amputated because they think they'd be happier or more true to themselves, they perceive the alienated limb(s) as not belonging to them at all.

Furthermore, the prevailing theory is that this is primarily a neurological problem, rather than a psychological one. Observations of people with body integrity disorder have shown their brains react differently to stimulation of their "owned" and "alienated" limbs, which suggests they have a different somatosensory perception of those limbs which is likely to be the cause of the feeling of alienation.

One possible treatment for body integrity dysphoria is actually to amputate the affected limb. In fact, in most cases this will solve the problem. The reason this is not commonly done and the reason most surgeons will refuse is primarily because amputations are inherently dangerous and entail a severe loss of ability, not because of the inherent sanctity of the human body.

Most kinds of body dysphoria are not met with considering or planning for serious drugs or surgery at a young age, either. Gender dysphoria is unique in this.
Gender dysphoria is also unique in many other ways, because it's not actually a type of body dysphoria.

A person who believes they are fat despite being dangerously underweight is demonstrably wrong. It is a flawed perception which a person cannot shake because of a persistent problem in their cognitive processes. A person who experiences distress because of their sex and believes they would be happier with sexual characteristics more typical of the other sex does not have a flawed perception of their body, they have an accurate understanding of their body which causes them a strong and painful emotional response.
 
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Gergar12

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Hot take China, Russia, and North Korea plus the left wing in the US are full of crap, and we are better than them not because of their race but because of their beliefs, and actions.

Think about what North Korea and China are doing right now. They are launching missiles over their neighbors, and they think they are entitled to it. So am I entitled to grab a gun, and shoot over my neighbor's house, yes or no? Of course, not only a lunatic would believe so. Yet here we are, and furthermore, am I allowed to go into my neighbor's house, and just claim it as my own, yes or no? Guess what Russia is doing with Ukraine.

The pro-China and pro-Russia left is morally deranged sociopaths. And by the way, China invaded Vietnam, and India while Russia/the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and many countries in Eastern Europe like Hungary, and Poland. So I call BS on your moral equivocation of the US invading Iraq, and Afganistan which I didn't vote for, and I voted for the guy who just pulled out of Afganistan.
 

Hawki

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Hot take China, Russia, and North Korea plus the left wing in the US are full of crap, and we are better than them not because of their race but because of their beliefs, and actions.

Think about what North Korea and China are doing right now. They are launching missiles over their neighbors, and they think they are entitled to it. So am I entitled to grab a gun, and shoot over my neighbor's house, yes or no? Of course, not only a lunatic would believe so. Yet here we are, and furthermore, am I allowed to go into my neighbor's house, and just claim it as my own, yes or no? Guess what Russia is doing with Ukraine.

The pro-China and pro-Russia left is morally deranged sociopaths. And by the way, China invaded Vietnam, and India while Russia/the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and many countries in Eastern Europe like Hungary, and Poland. So I call BS on your moral equivocation of the US invading Iraq, and Afganistan which I didn't vote for, and I voted for the guy who just pulled out of Afganistan.
 

McElroy

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If pre-pubescent children are not given puberty blockers, then they will nonetheless go through a strenuous bodily change-- one that is more permanent than the blockers themselves.
Y'know, I wonder how popular a really cynical "radfem" (I guess) idea would be that we'd vastly increase access to puberty blockers not because of trans kids but because it's a way to reduce the amount of men in this world. No need to complain about women having it better anymore. No downsides after everyone agrees to be on board with it. (like, not even misandrist because the remaining men would have better options).
 

Silvanus

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Hot take China, Russia, and North Korea plus the left wing in the US are full of crap, and we are better than them not because of their race but because of their beliefs, and actions.

Think about what North Korea and China are doing right now. They are launching missiles over their neighbors, and they think they are entitled to it. So am I entitled to grab a gun, and shoot over my neighbor's house, yes or no? Of course, not only a lunatic would believe so. Yet here we are, and furthermore, am I allowed to go into my neighbor's house, and just claim it as my own, yes or no? Guess what Russia is doing with Ukraine.

The pro-China and pro-Russia left is morally deranged sociopaths. And by the way, China invaded Vietnam, and India while Russia/the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and many countries in Eastern Europe like Hungary, and Poland. So I call BS on your moral equivocation of the US invading Iraq, and Afganistan which I didn't vote for, and I voted for the guy who just pulled out of Afganistan.
"The left wing in the US" doesn't support Russia, China and North Korea attacking and threatening other countries. A tiny subset of unrepresentative tankies does. The left in general has condemned it consistently and unequivocally.

Invasion and imperialism continue to experience greater support from the nationalist right than any other political grouping.
 

Phoenixmgs

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What you consider common sense and what actually is common sense have a distant relationship.



Do you believe this is the right approach?



No, there's been quite a depth of research on it, actually. As soon as studies are provided to you, you'll start either 1) dismissing them out-of-hand based on poor understanding, or 2) ignoring them and then insisting you were never provided them to begin with. So I'm not going to bother falling down that particular rabbit hole.

The link you've provided is to an anti-trans thinktank, so fuck that and fuck them.
You're the one that doesn't understand basic human behavior. It's like you guys don't interact with the average person at all.

I'm not saying shaming is good (we know that doesn't work from HIV to Covid) but accepting is also not good and probably even worse than shaming. Adele got bashed online for losing weight, that is how ridiculous this has gotten.

I only found like 3 studies on the manner, the one large one that is always cited by like every article that came up in the 1st 2 pages of searching "gender reassignment surgery study", the one Swedish one, and some super small one that was too small to be good evidence alone. So the study that was officially corrected doesn't "count' because I linked to a presumably anti-trans site that I don't even care to look up because it really doesn't matter when the following happened "an independent statistical review of the data, which led to a reanalysis of the data and an official correction". You dismiss literally anything in science that doesn't agree with your narrative. You think covid vaccines stop transmission still for example, just ridiculous stuff that isn't true. Thinking there's some settled science on GRS is beyond ridiculous.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I'm not saying shaming is good (we know that doesn't work from HIV to Covid) but accepting is also not good and probably even worse than shaming. Adele got bashed online for losing weight, that is how ridiculous this has gotten.
Yeah, and she's still body positive. Funny, that

So what's the happy middle ground between shaming and not-shaming?
I only found like 3 studies on the manner, the one large one that is always cited by like every article that came up in the 1st 2 pages of searching "gender reassignment surgery study", the one Swedish one, and some super small one that was too small to be good evidence alone. So the study that was officially corrected doesn't "count' because I linked to a presumably anti-trans site that I don't even care to look up because it really doesn't matter when the following happened "an independent statistical review of the data, which led to a reanalysis of the data and an official correction". You dismiss literally anything in science that doesn't agree with your narrative. You think covid vaccines stop transmission still for example, just ridiculous stuff that isn't true. Thinking there's some settled science on GRS is beyond ridiculous.
Well, there's the bit where there's a fairly high profile new one
 

Silvanus

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You're the one that doesn't understand basic human behavior. It's like you guys don't interact with the average person at all.

I'm not saying shaming is good (we know that doesn't work from HIV to Covid) but accepting is also not good and probably even worse than shaming. Adele got bashed online for losing weight, that is how ridiculous this has gotten.
OK. So addressing the issues with your body which cause discomfort and a lower quality of life is good, then. Glad you agree.

I only found like 3 studies on the manner, the one large one that is always cited by like every article that came up in the 1st 2 pages of searching "gender reassignment surgery study", the one Swedish one, and some super small one that was too small to be good evidence alone. So the study that was officially corrected doesn't "count' because I linked to a presumably anti-trans site that I don't even care to look up because it really doesn't matter when the following happened "an independent statistical review of the data, which led to a reanalysis of the data and an official correction".
So you couldn't find the studies, right, there we find the source of your belief that it hasn't been studied. You couldn't find it, so instead of entertaining the possibility that you.... didn't look in the places where they are, you just leapt to the most arrogant conclusion: the studies must not exist.

Judging by the fact that your usual approach to finding evidence is trawling YouTube, this means squat.

The study was corrected. The correction doesn't lead to the bullshit conclusions they came to. If you want to find an even-handed or trustworthy investigation, maybe don't go to a right-wing anti-trans advocacy think-tank.

You dismiss literally anything in science that doesn't agree with your narrative.
This has been your MO since the very start.
 

Gergar12

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I love how when the F-35 was made every yahoo from an anti-western country like Russia, Iran, etc was lying about the F-35 along with the left wing in the western countries so that the morons among us could call our congressmen and get it canceled. Now it's

  1. Cheaper than the Eurofighter, Gripen, AND F-15 EX due to economies of scale.
  2. Has the 1st or 2nd best stealth in the world.
  3. Has a working helmet-mounted display that can shoot missiles at anything it looks at including behind it.
  4. Has been brought by most of Europe including the germans.
  5. Has a better range than an F-15 along with a supercruise option.
  6. There are more of them than J-20s and Su-57s
Cope more.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Yeah, and she's still body positive. Funny, that

So what's the happy middle ground between shaming and not-shaming?

Well, there's the bit where there's a fairly high profile new one
But don't you think it's pretty ridiculous that others were mad that she lost weight and got healthy? What type of person would prefer someone else to be less healthy? It's great that Adele is in a mentally good enough place to not let such bullshit affect her (not using social media much is always great for your mental health). But what about the people mad at her, you think they will ever acknowledge they are unhealthy and get better? And then the message of being fat is OK only gets more people into that same mindset. Just because you catch literally catch obesity from others doesn't mean it can't spread similar to a virus; parents that eat unhealthy will like have their kids eating unhealthy too. The community benefit of banning liquid candy will be enormous.

You can acknowledge that stuff like pop/fries/etc is really bad for someone and they should either heavily limit them or stop consuming them vs saying you're fat, you don't have to bring up what someone looks like at all.

That's the one study I mentioned that gets cited on like every one of those articles. One study doesn't equal the science is settled by a long shot.

OK. So addressing the issues with your body which cause discomfort and a lower quality of life is good, then. Glad you agree.



So you couldn't find the studies, right, there we find the source of your belief that it hasn't been studied. You couldn't find it, so instead of entertaining the possibility that you.... didn't look in the places where they are, you just leapt to the most arrogant conclusion: the studies must not exist.

Judging by the fact that your usual approach to finding evidence is trawling YouTube, this means squat.

The study was corrected. The correction doesn't lead to the bullshit conclusions they came to. If you want to find an even-handed or trustworthy investigation, maybe don't go to a right-wing anti-trans advocacy think-tank.



This has been your MO since the very start.
:rolleyes:

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I searched the internet, why would that involve Youtube (to find studies)? And where are all these GRS studies when it's a rather new thing to be studied? Link to all these high quality (quality being the key word) studies if they exist. I totally can't trust your guys' opinions on a group when you all keep saying people like Dave Chappelle and Ricky Gervais are transphobic when they are not. And, again, I don't care enough to argue whether some group is anti-trans or not; is data wrong or not? That's all that matters. Attack the data vs making ad-hominem attacks against people or groups. So what if they are indeed anti-trans, are they wrong and if so, why are they wrong.

And this is why I totally can't trust your analysis on much of anything. How was my source's conclusions on the correction "bullshit"? Seems like they said exactly what the correction said. Is AJP an anti-trans organization too?

While this comparison was performed retrospectively and was not part of the original research question given that several other factors may differ between the groups, the results demonstrated no advantage of surgery in relation to subsequent mood or anxiety disorder-related health care visits or prescriptions or hospitalizations following suicide attempts in that comparison. Given that the study used neither a prospective cohort design nor a randomized controlled trial design, the conclusion that “the longitudinal association between gender-affirming surgery and lower use of mental health treatment lends support to the decision to provide gender-affirming surgeries to transgender individuals who seek them” is too strong.

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Nope, I've always gone with the data available at the time. How about all those excess deaths we are seeing now (that are above average) that have nothing to do with covid? Perhaps there was some warning about how in the long run that would happen from covid restrictions? Fauci, laughably, won't even admit closing schools was bad in hindsight, I wonder why our peer countries never closed schools nearly as long as the US or masked kids.

For example, the American Academy of Pediatrics is so wrong so many times, yet your gonna say they go by actual science? They told parents not to expose kids to peanuts (based on no science) and only caused more people having peanut allergies. That even goes against basic common sense science of allergies.

Also, funny how people not in the US are able to blatantly say the AAP is posting straight-up misinformation? Leave the US bubble of "science" and you're not gonna like what it says.

Since you all like Twitter so much, here ya go:

I'm guessing your comeback to that will be Michael Absoud is from an anti-kid think tank or some bullshit like that.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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But don't you think it's pretty ridiculous that others were mad that she lost weight and got healthy? What type of person would prefer someone else to be less healthy?
I can find a million idiots with ridiculous opinions, what of it?
You can acknowledge that stuff like pop/fries/etc is really bad for someone and they should either heavily limit them or stop consuming them vs saying you're fat, you don't have to bring up what someone looks like at all.
You'd think so, wouldn't you?
That's the one study I mentioned that gets cited on like every one of those articles. One study doesn't equal the science is settled by a long shot.
So if that's the study you see getting brought up all the time, why'd you debunk a different study?
I searched the internet, why would that involve Youtube (to find studies)? And where are all these GRS studies when it's a rather new thing to be studied? Link to all these high quality (quality being the key word) studies if they exist. I totally can't trust your guys' opinions on a group when you all keep saying people like Dave Chappelle and Ricky Gervais are transphobic when they are not.
Dude, you don't get to decide that for other people
 
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Silvanus

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I searched the internet, why would that involve Youtube (to find studies)?
That's the only place you seem to look for evidence usually. Don't ask me why.

And where are all these GRS studies when it's a rather new thing to be studied? Link to all these high quality (quality being the key word) studies if they exist. I totally can't trust your guys' opinions on a group when you all keep saying people like Dave Chappelle and Ricky Gervais are transphobic when they are not. And, again, I don't care enough to argue whether some group is anti-trans or not; is data wrong or not? That's all that matters. Attack the data vs making ad-hominem attacks against people or groups. So what if they are indeed anti-trans, are they wrong and if so, why are they wrong.
"Your guys opinions"? Who're you even talking about? Why does someone's view on Chappelle and Gervais' standup affect whether or not you think they can well evaluate a study? The very fact you say this in the same paragraph as decrying "ad-hominem attacks" is beyond self-parody.

The data is diametrically opposed to the self-interested shit that anti-trans lobby group came out with.

And this is why I totally can't trust your analysis on much of anything. How was my source's conclusions on the correction "bullshit"? Seems like they said exactly what the correction said. Is AJP an anti-trans organization too?

While this comparison was performed retrospectively and was not part of the original research question given that several other factors may differ between the groups, the results demonstrated no advantage of surgery in relation to subsequent mood or anxiety disorder-related health care visits or prescriptions or hospitalizations following suicide attempts in that comparison. Given that the study used neither a prospective cohort design nor a randomized controlled trial design, the conclusion that “the longitudinal association between gender-affirming surgery and lower use of mental health treatment lends support to the decision to provide gender-affirming surgeries to transgender individuals who seek them” is too strong.
But that's not all the SEGM said, was it? They went on to spew a bunch of other complete drivel, like implying that gender-affirming therapies themselves could be responsible for a higher suicide rate-- despite the fact that suicide rates are decidedly lower for those who have undergone gender-affirming therapies.

They're an anti-trans lobby group.

Nope, I've always gone with the data available at the time.
😂 😂 😂
 

Gergar12

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Clowns.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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I can find a million idiots with ridiculous opinions, what of it?
You'd think so, wouldn't you?
So if that's the study you see getting brought up all the time, why'd you debunk a different study?
Dude, you don't get to decide that for other people
And the reason those people don't like her getting healthy is because they lost some celebrity to point to that looks like them while thinking it's also OK to look like that, that's why they didn't like her losing weight and that's pretty fucking sad.

Why would you have to bring up how someone looks to teach them to eat healthy?

The study debunked was an older study and thus had more time to be debunked...?

You don't get to decide who is transphobic without actual proof. And nothing they said was transphobic, it just didn't 100% agree with your opinion on trans people so you decide to call them transphobic vs just debating them on a couple issues you didn't like their take on.

That's the only place you seem to look for evidence usually. Don't ask me why.



"Your guys opinions"? Who're you even talking about? Why does someone's view on Chappelle and Gervais' standup affect whether or not you think they can well evaluate a study? The very fact you say this in the same paragraph as decrying "ad-hominem attacks" is beyond self-parody.

The data is diametrically opposed to the self-interested shit that anti-trans lobby group came out with.



But that's not all the SEGM said, was it? They went on to spew a bunch of other complete drivel, like implying that gender-affirming therapies themselves could be responsible for a higher suicide rate-- despite the fact that suicide rates are decidedly lower for those who have undergone gender-affirming therapies.

They're an anti-trans lobby group.



😂 😂 😂
If someone has demonstrated poor analysis ability, why would I believe their future analyses?

SEGM said what the correction was accurately, even the headline is correct. How is their figure about suicides wrong? That's data straight from the study. That section of the article even says this is SEGM's Position and not anyone else's position. You act like they are trying to trick people by listing misinformation. The CDC has more misinformation on a daily basis than that article. I don't care what their group is or is not.

Funny how Paul Offit voted against bivalent boosters because there's no data for them...