Our Covid Response

[Phoenixmgs]

Patients with LC had highly activated innate immune cells, lacked naive T and B cells and showed elevated expression of type I IFN (IFN-β) and type III IFN (IFN-λ1) that remained persistently high at 8 months after infection.

Immunological dysfunction persists for 8 months following initial mild-to-moderate SARS-CoV-2 infection - Nature Immunology

Phetsouphanh and colleagues show that individuals with long COVID have persistent activation of the innate and adaptive immune system at 8 months after infection and define a set of analytes associated with long COVID.

www.nature.com

A Longitudinal Study of COVID-19 Sequelae and Immunity: Baseline Findings | Annals of Internal Medicine

Background: A substantial proportion of persons who develop COVID-19 report persistent symptoms after acute illness. Various pathophysiologic mechanisms have been implicated in the pathogenesis of postacute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC). Objective: To characterize medical sequelae and...

www.acpjournals.org

A high burden of persistent symptoms was observed in persons after COVID-19. Extensive diagnostic evaluation revealed no specific cause of reported symptoms in most cases.

They threw every test (blood tests, CT scans, etc) they could at people and couldn't find anything. Everything has bio-psycho-social aspects to it, it looks like long covid has no bio associated aspect to it.

 

[Kwak]

it looks like long covid has no bio associated aspect to it.

"Patients with LC had highly activated innate immune cells, lacked naive T and B cells and showed elevated expression of type I IFN (IFN-β) and type III IFN (IFN-λ1) that remained persistently high at 8 months after infection. "

That would be the bio part.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

"Patients with LC had highly activated innate immune cells, lacked naive T and B cells and showed elevated expression of type I IFN (IFN-β) and type III IFN (IFN-λ1) that remained persistently high at 8 months after infection. "

That would be the bio part.

That study was smaller and people with long covid and asymptomatic covid showed the same increases so what's the difference then? The study I linked also compared T-cell expressions and found no difference as well. In the study I linked the risk factors for developing long covid were female and having a pre-covid history of anxiety, thus it seems mainly psycho/social in what triggers it. Also, we have literally no data on how often long covid happens vs the same from other viruses so we have no clue if the rate of occurrence is greater with covid or not. It is literally nothing to worry about when looking at the actual data we do have.

 

[Silvanus]

That study was smaller [...]

Are you going to retract that bit about how "not a single study" found anything to do with long covid?

 

[Kwak]

A couple more...

Fourteen vasculature transformation blood biomarkers were significantly elevated in Long-COVID outpatients, versus acutely ill COVID-19 inpatients and healthy controls subjects (P < 0.05). A unique two biomarker profile consisting of ANG-1/P-SEL was developed with machine learning, providing a classification accuracy for Long-COVID status of 96%. Individually, ANG-1 and P-SEL had excellent sensitivity and specificity for Long-COVID status (AUC = 1.00, P < 0.0001; validated in a secondary cohort). Specific to Long-COVID, ANG-1 levels were associated with female sex and a lack of disease interventions at follow-up (P < 0.05).
Conclusions
Long-COVID patients suffer prolonged, diffuse symptoms and poorer health. Vascular transformation blood biomarkers were significantly elevated in Long-COVID, with angiogenesis markers (ANG-1/P-SEL) providing classification accuracy of 96%. Vascular transformation blood biomarkers hold potential for diagnostics, and modulators of angiogenesis may have therapeutic efficacy.

Elevated vascular transformation blood biomarkers in Long-COVID indicate angiogenesis as a key pathophysiological mechanism - Molecular Medicine

Background Long-COVID is characterized by prolonged, diffuse symptoms months after acute COVID-19. Accurate diagnosis and targeted therapies for Long-COVID are lacking. We investigated vascular transformation biomarkers in Long-COVID patients. Methods A case–control study utilizing Long-COVID...

molmed.biomedcentral.com

The prevailing hypotheses for the persistent symptoms of Long COVID have been narrowed down to immune dysregulation and autoantibodies, widespread organ damage, viral persistence, and fibrinaloid microclots (entrapping numerous inflammatory molecules) together with platelet hyperactivation. Here we demonstrate significantly increased concentrations of Von Willebrand Factor, platelet factor 4,serum amyloid A, α-2antiplasmin E-selectin, and platelet endothelial cell adhesion molecule-1, in the soluble part of the blood. It was noteworthy that the mean level of α-2-antiplasmin exceeded the upper limit of the laboratory reference range in Long COVID patients, and the other 5 were significantly elevated in Long COVID patients as compared to the controls.

Increased levels of inflammatory molecules in blood of Long COVID patients point to thrombotic endotheliitis

The prevailing hypotheses for the persistent symptoms of Long COVID have been narrowed down to immune dysregulation and autoantibodies, widespread organ damage, viral persistence, and fibrinaloid microclots (entrapping numerous inflammatory molecules) together with platelet hyperactivation. Here...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Are you going to retract that bit about how "not a single study" found anything to do with long covid?

It didn't, it found no difference between those with long covid and those with asymptomatic covid.

A couple more...

Fourteen vasculature transformation blood biomarkers were significantly elevated in Long-COVID outpatients, versus acutely ill COVID-19 inpatients and healthy controls subjects (P < 0.05). A unique two biomarker profile consisting of ANG-1/P-SEL was developed with machine learning, providing a classification accuracy for Long-COVID status of 96%. Individually, ANG-1 and P-SEL had excellent sensitivity and specificity for Long-COVID status (AUC = 1.00, P < 0.0001; validated in a secondary cohort). Specific to Long-COVID, ANG-1 levels were associated with female sex and a lack of disease interventions at follow-up (P < 0.05).
Conclusions
Long-COVID patients suffer prolonged, diffuse symptoms and poorer health. Vascular transformation blood biomarkers were significantly elevated in Long-COVID, with angiogenesis markers (ANG-1/P-SEL) providing classification accuracy of 96%. Vascular transformation blood biomarkers hold potential for diagnostics, and modulators of angiogenesis may have therapeutic efficacy.

Elevated vascular transformation blood biomarkers in Long-COVID indicate angiogenesis as a key pathophysiological mechanism - Molecular Medicine

Background Long-COVID is characterized by prolonged, diffuse symptoms months after acute COVID-19. Accurate diagnosis and targeted therapies for Long-COVID are lacking. We investigated vascular transformation biomarkers in Long-COVID patients. Methods A case–control study utilizing Long-COVID...

molmed.biomedcentral.com

The prevailing hypotheses for the persistent symptoms of Long COVID have been narrowed down to immune dysregulation and autoantibodies, widespread organ damage, viral persistence, and fibrinaloid microclots (entrapping numerous inflammatory molecules) together with platelet hyperactivation. Here we demonstrate significantly increased concentrations of Von Willebrand Factor, platelet factor 4,serum amyloid A, α-2antiplasmin E-selectin, and platelet endothelial cell adhesion molecule-1, in the soluble part of the blood. It was noteworthy that the mean level of α-2-antiplasmin exceeded the upper limit of the laboratory reference range in Long COVID patients, and the other 5 were significantly elevated in Long COVID patients as compared to the controls.

Increased levels of inflammatory molecules in blood of Long COVID patients point to thrombotic endotheliitis

The prevailing hypotheses for the persistent symptoms of Long COVID have been narrowed down to immune dysregulation and autoantibodies, widespread organ damage, viral persistence, and fibrinaloid microclots (entrapping numerous inflammatory molecules) together with platelet hyperactivation. Here...

www.medrxiv.org

Those are such small studies. The 1st one is mainly older people who likely had more serious covid than average. Also, how do we conclude that the angiogenesis is part of the pathology rather than a compensatory mechanism for damage from COVID? The 2nd study looked at SAA markers, which is already a known marker for severe covid and having severe covid will probably put like anyone into the long covid group by definition because it takes them longer to recover obviously (so did they actually have long covid or did their normal recovery just take longer?). Also, if you look at the charts you see people in the long covid group having lower markers than the healthy group. With such small groups, it's very hard to find a pattern that will extend to the entire population. The whole fear mongering about long covid was that young healthy people should be concerned about getting infected because of long covid and there's no data at all saying that.

---

Also, I see like none of you guys talking about known and rather important adverse effects of the vaccines to younger people. I said long ago that you don't mandate kids getting vaccines unless you know for fucking sure that they are safe. And when you actually do the risk benefit analysis, getting the vaccine is actually riskier than them getting covid. And you had the fucking SCIENCE Museum in California not allowing in kids that were vaccinated but not boosted and completely not following science at all. Why aren't you on your soapboxes about this actually known and confirmed shit?

Weighing post-vaccination myo/pericarditis against COVID-19 hospitalization during delta, our risk-benefit analysis suggests that among 12–17-year-olds, two-dose vaccination was uniformly favourable only in nonimmune girls with a comorbidity.

BNT162b2 Vaccine-Associated Myo/Pericarditis in Adolescents: A Stratified Risk-Benefit Analysis - PubMed

Our findings strongly support individualized paediatric COVID-19 vaccination strategies which weigh protection against severe disease vs. risks of vaccine-associated myo/pericarditis. Research is needed into the nature and implications of this adverse effect as well as immunization strategies...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Silvanus]

It didn't, it found no difference between those with long covid and those with asymptomatic covid.

Directly from the study: "Long Covid symptoms include severe relapsing fatigue, dyspnea, chest tightness, cough, brain fog and headache".

Are you going to retract what you said about no studies finding anything to do with long covid? Its unarguably, literally right there.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Directly from the study: "Long Covid symptoms include severe relapsing fatigue, dyspnea, chest tightness, cough, brain fog and headache".

Are you going to retract what you said about no studies finding anything to do with long covid? Its unarguably, literally right there.

I didn't say long covid doesn't exist. I meant that when I say long covid is a bunch of a bullshit is that there's no biological reason we've found for it. Getting long covid has nothing to do with actual covid as many people with long covid in the one study never actually had covid (but they believed they had covid). It's seems to be entirely a psycho-social disease.

 

[thebobmaster]

Just tested positive this morning. Right when I'm in the background check/final approval process for a job. Yay.

 

[Silvanus]

I didn't say long covid doesn't exist. I meant that when I say long covid is a bunch of a bullshit is that there's no biological reason we've found for it. Getting long covid has nothing to do with actual covid as many people with long covid in the one study never actually had covid (but they believed they had covid). It's seems to be entirely a psycho-social disease.

The study very clearly states that those who did have Covid had significantly higher levels of almost every biological indicator they looked at, when compared to the UHC group (un-exposed). So that's categorically false.

You said long covid is "a bunch of bullshit" and that "no study" found anything significant to do with it. You've been presented with a study that unambiguously states that it exists, identifies several symptoms, and demonstrates that the biological indicators are significantly higher for those who had covid when compared to those who didn't.

Are you going to retract what you said about "no studies" finding anything significant about long covid? It is unarguably, unambiguously, literally right there in front of everyone.

 

[Eacaraxe]

That study was smaller and people with long covid and asymptomatic covid showed the same increases so what's the difference then? The study I linked also compared T-cell expressions and found no difference as well. In the study I linked the risk factors for developing long covid were female and having a pre-covid history of anxiety, thus it seems mainly psycho/social in what triggers it. Also, we have literally no data on how often long covid happens vs the same from other viruses so we have no clue if the rate of occurrence is greater with covid or not. It is literally nothing to worry about when looking at the actual data we do have.

"Not one study shows long Covid is a thing."

"Here's a bunch."

"Here's a study that says long Covid isn't a thing."

"The literal study you just cited does in fact say long Covid is a thing."

"Yeah well that study doesn't matter either."

Fucking seriously?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

"Not one study shows long Covid is a thing."

"Here's a bunch."

"Here's a study that says long Covid isn't a thing."

"The literal study you just cited does in fact say long Covid is a thing."

"Yeah well that study doesn't matter either."

Fucking seriously?

Hi, welcome. You may notice this is page 76. You can guess why.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Just tested positive this morning. Right when I'm in the background check/final approval process for a job. Yay.

That sucks, get well soon.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

The study very clearly states that those who did have Covid had significantly higher levels of almost every biological indicator they looked at, when compared to the UHC group (un-exposed). So that's categorically false.

You said long covid is "a bunch of bullshit" and that "no study" found anything significant to do with it. You've been presented with a study that unambiguously states that it exists, identifies several symptoms, and demonstrates that the biological indicators are significantly higher for those who had covid when compared to those who didn't.

Are you going to retract what you said about "no studies" finding anything significant about long covid? It is unarguably, unambiguously, literally right there in front of everyone.

The study I posted literally said people who didn't have covid claimed to have long covid? There's nothing unique to covid itself that is causing long covid symptoms. Again, I didn't mean to imply it doesn't exist at all (because that would be a ridiculous claim), it just doesn't exist in the way people think it does. No studies have found any biological reason that covid is causing long covid.

"Not one study shows long Covid is a thing."

"Here's a bunch."

"Here's a study that says long Covid isn't a thing."

"The literal study you just cited does in fact say long Covid is a thing."

"Yeah well that study doesn't matter either."

Fucking seriously?

Again, I didn't literally mean long covid is not a thing, it's just not biologically tied to covid. Thus, the claim about everyone still needs to be concerned about covid because long covid is a bunch of bullshit that has no data behind it. A study of 10-20 people isn't a good study, it can be a starting point obviously. Can I give you a study of 20 people showing ivermectin showed good results to convince you ivermectin works? The study I linked to had 26,000 people in it, not 20... Which study you think is more accurate, the one with 20 people or the one with 20,000 people?

 

[Silvanus]

The study I posted literally said people who didn't have covid claimed to have long covid? There's nothing unique to covid itself that is causing long covid symptoms. Again, I didn't mean to imply it doesn't exist at all (because that would be a ridiculous claim), it just doesn't exist in the way people think it does. No studies have found any biological reason that covid is causing long covid.

Not the study you posted. The study that was posted before. It explicitly said that they studied people who did have covid, and those who were not previously exposed. And they found that almost every biological indicator they looked at was significantly higher for those who had covid. That's a clear link between having had covid, and having lasting effects.

You said that "no study" found anything significant regarding long covid. We've had studies provided that show 1) a lasting biological indicator for those who had covid, compared to those who didn't; and 2) lasting symptoms. Are you going to retract what you said? It's unambiguously, demonstrably been shown to be wrong.

And I don't care if your study says something different. We're not weighing one study against another right now. We're very specifically talking about your claim that "no study" said there was anything significant in long covid.

 

[Dalisclock]

Hi, welcome. You may notice this is page 76. You can guess why.

Some of us got sick of his shit and just blocked him a while back.
My hats off to the ones who haven't yet, you lovely masochists.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Not the study you posted. The study that was posted before. It explicitly said that they studied people who did have covid, and those who were not previously exposed. And they found that almost every biological indicator they looked at was significantly higher for those who had covid. That's a clear link between having had covid, and having lasting effects.

You said that "no study" found anything significant regarding long covid. We've had studies provided that show 1) a lasting biological indicator for those who had covid, compared to those who didn't; and 2) lasting symptoms. Are you going to retract what you said? It's unambiguously, demonstrably been shown to be wrong.

And I don't care if your study says something different. We're not weighing one study against another right now. We're very specifically talking about your claim that "no study" said there was anything significant in long covid.

Which study? This one? Because that methodology has no context to it.

No good study has shown any biological indicators. I never meant to imply people don't have said symptoms, I meant that they aren't unique to covid in any way; hence why you had people with long covid that literally never had covid. Covid can trigger longer symptoms like any other viral infection does, but it has nothing to do with the virus directly causing the symptoms. The question is whether longer symptoms from covid happen more often, less often, or equally often as any other viral infection, which we have no idea about. There's no reason/data to believe covid is causing this in greater numbers and there's no reason to be concerned about it. The best thing you can do for overactive immune system is lowering your inflammation and that's worked for me because years ago I read up on it due to having a lingering cough (that hypothesized to to be caused by overactive immune system) for at least a month after a cold/flu and since following some basic principles, I've yet to have a coughing phase at all when I've gotten a cold since (when I used always get soar throat, running nose, coughing in that order every time I got sick).

Sorry, no good study... You can find a bad study that says anything. It's like someone saying there's no study that says vaccines are bad and someone responding with that Andrew Wakefield study saying it's a study that says vaccines are bad even though it was a horrible study even before it was shown to be fraudulent.

Some of us got sick of his shit and just blocked him a while back.
My hats off to the ones who haven't yet, you lovely masochists.

There's a difference between what the actual science says and what the mainstream media says the science is.

 

[Silvanus]

Sorry, no good study...

Fucking classic. I give up.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

No good study

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org