Bayonetta 3 Thread

[BrawlMan]

the point stands in that you are not holding off of Bay3 because the voice actress is different. It's one thing to prefer the OG, and another to outright skip a game because the voice actor has changed. And usually replacement actors do a pretty good job at the role regardless, and once you're used to it it doesn't even matter. Which shows my point of how replaceable VA's typically are beyond maybe a couple of names. MAYBE

I don't care if your point still stands. I was there from the beginning for all three just like I was when the second game came out. Like I said before, certain voices are iconic for a reason. I already said hail does a great job and nothing is her fault, but I can tell the difference between their voices. That still doesn't excuse how an industry works, nor should everybody be easily that replaceable when they put their heart and souls into it. I'm not making excuses for taylor, I'm just pointing out the whole problems in here with the system.

A voice can be iconic and still be replaceable. Kratos, Solid Snake, bot saw replacements from their original iconic voices. But time and refreshing the series (if whatever MGSV was could be refreshing) sometimes means that studios can't continue with the same actor. Hell even age changes the voice too much and it no longer fits or works.

Still doesn't excuse either one. Kojima and Konami just wanted a Hollywood voice actor, despite Hayter not changing that much. In MGS5, I can tell that was Kiefer Sutherland from the get-go. As for Kratos old voice actor, Terrence Carson, Sony just straight up screwed him over. I know they wanted a different type of performance, but he could have made it work. And if they didn't want him, they should have just said it so straight up from the beginning, instead of waiting around till the semi last minute. A lot of the industry see voice actors disposable, unless they're super high up into the totem pole. That is the the big problem and disease.

Hell Final Fantasy 7 replaced EVERYONE deliberately because they wanted a refreshed cast to be those characters for the entire project. Lance Bass no longer suited Sephiroth, Mandy Moore no longer suited Aerith. And while some people still prefer the original voices, everybody pretty much agrees that the new cast nailed it

That's a huge exception, not the rule. And I bet one day, if and when need be, they'll be replaceable too.

Like I told Worgen, I'm not doing this constant back and forth. If you don't get it or see the evidence I provide it, then I have nothing left to say to you. You get it, or you don't. That is your problem. Many of us have already given evidence, so take your time and actually look through it and stop giving me these immediate reactions or making up blind excuses that corporations want you to use. Unless you got something new to offer, we're done on the subject.

 

[Worgen]

See above: hourly wage is not a useful metric for gig work at all.

Then what do you think is a good metric for something that could be super successful, but could also flop and ruin the company? Should her bills be paid for 1, 2 years for a weeks worth of work? Should she be compensated for a lifetime?

 

[Silvanus]

Not true, there is constant VA work. Sometimes it's just fluff dialog like Npc's talking shit when you walk past them. Just because a STARRING gig is harder to get doesn't mean VA's are not getting smaller jobs regularly. That's also why people diversify their income, especially when their income isn't steady.

How many voiced video games do you think get released in a given year? It's a hell of a lot fewer than (say) TV, and TV is already notoriously difficult to get into and make a living.

15K isn't enough money for months? Really? How expensive do you live? Because I live in one of the most expensive states in the country and 15K would keep me set for four months, maybe a little more. At what point then should I be expected to have another job? Surely 4 months is enough to get another gig, and if it isn't that's not Platinum's responsibility, it's YOURS!

Why "surely"? I live nearby a major drama studio and school, and have a good deal of friends who've professionally acted. 4 months without a role is nothing. Try years.

A gig worker cannot expect a company to pay until they get a new gig because, like you said, there is no telling when that next gig may come. So they write out a contract and pay what the job is worth, it's then up to the gig-worker to make that money last until their next gig.

I'm not saying "pay until x". I'm saying they're not paying what the work is worth. It's a talent that's taken years to train and develop, and has a major impact on driving the success of a multi-million dollar product.

I don't know why you are trying to remove responsibility off the VA.

I don't understand why you're talking about "responsibility". The studio is the one that has the ability to set pay, not the VA. The studio is the one raking millions in profits that it then refuses to reinvest in its own talent, instead funnelling it to shareholders who did squat.

 

[Silvanus]

Then what do you think is a good metric for something that could be super successful, but could also flop and ruin the company? Should her bills be paid for 1, 2 years for a weeks worth of work? Should she be compensated for a lifetime?

Make recompense proportionate to the success of the product (above a baseline of course). Simple. In essence: give workers a share of the income generated from their work.

 

[BrawlMan]

I just got the call from my local Gamestop. They're doing the midnight release on Thursday this week.

 

[CriticalGaming]

How many voiced video games do you think get released in a given year? It's a hell of a lot fewer than (say) TV, and TV is already notoriously difficult to get into and make a living.

You realize that VA's aren't limited to video games right? Commercials, cartoons, radio ads', etc. There is a lot more that VA's do than just video games. Also to answer the question literally 100's of games per year with voice acting come out.

This year has sucked and look at all these fucking games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_in_video_games

Not to mention games getting updates like Apex, Lol, Wow, Overwatch, New World, etc etc etc etc.

Why "surely"? I live nearby a major drama studio and school, and have a good deal of friends who've professionally acted. 4 months without a role is nothing. Try years.

You mean when you're new? Of course, gig work requires the person to build a brand. That's why nobody does gig work exclusively until they've established enough of a gig economy for themselves. That's still not a company's responsibility. All that burden falls onto the shoulder of the individual. Again you are trying to remove personal accountability and I don't understand why.

I'm saying they're not paying what the work is worth

What's the work worth then? Remember that an entire 100+ person development team who works WAY harder and has to be much more technically proficient make a video game. A VA reads the lines and follows directions from a director in regards to how to sound, what accent they want, inflection, and more. That's why a VA can come into a project, and be done in four days.

So what do you think a job is worth that takes someone four days to come in, bang out, and be done? 15k? More? If so how much? What about indie games and AA games that don't have millions and millions worth of budget? What should VA's make for those games? There is a reason why contracts exist in a gig-economy. If you don't think the contract is worth doing, then don't take the job.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Make recompense proportionate to the success of the product (above a baseline of course). Simple. In essence: give workers a share of the income generated from their work.

Surely the developers who work on a game for years at a time are more deserving than the actors who come in for a couple days.

 

[Worgen]

Make recompense proportionate to the success of the product (above a baseline of course). Simple. In essence: give workers a share of the income generated from their work.

So you are talking about residuals. Maybe she could have gotten those if she didn't also want 6 figures. But, do you know if Japanese companies give residuals? Does Nintendo? Why would they start with a somewhat niche series if they don't?

 

[Silvanus]

You realize that VA's aren't limited to video games right? Commercials, cartoons, radio ads', etc. There is a lot more that VA's do than just video games. Also to answer the question literally 100's of games per year with voice acting come out.

Right. 100s, globally. That's nothing-- certainly not enough to provide reliable constant work for the VAs out there, if pay is at that rate.

You mean when you're new? Of course, gig work requires the person to build a brand. That's why nobody does gig work exclusively until they've established enough of a gig economy for themselves. That's still not a company's responsibility. All that burden falls onto the shoulder of the individual. Again you are trying to remove personal accountability and I don't understand why.

I find personal responsibility completely irrelevant to the question, that's why. The company is the one with the decision-making power, and the money, and are also the ones who reap all the benefits of success. So of course I'm going to focus on what they should do.

What's the work worth then? Remember that an entire 100+ person development team who works WAY harder and has to be much more technically proficient make a video game. A VA reads the lines and follows directions from a director in regards to how to sound, what accent they want, inflection, and more. That's why a VA can come into a project, and be done in four days.

Yes, those people are also underpaid. Most people are.

You have a team of 100+, making (and marketing) a product that sells 1-2 million copies at 50-60 dollars per unit. The company has the means and the funds to pay 90% of those people tens of thousands more per annum, and chooses not to.

So what do you think a job is worth that takes someone four days to come in, bang out, and be done? 15k? More? If so how much? What about indie games and AA games that don't have millions and millions worth of budget? What should VA's make for those games? There is a reason why contracts exist in a gig-economy. If you don't think the contract is worth doing, then don't take the job.

You're still writing off expertise and training. You're not paying for hours. You're paying for the job.

 

[Silvanus]

So you are talking about residuals. Maybe she could have gotten those if she didn't also want 6 figures. But, do you know if Japanese companies give residuals? Does Nintendo? Why would they start with a somewhat niche series if they don't?

There's a massive gap between 15k and "six figures". She could be paid six times as much as she was and not hit 6 figures.

And I don't really care if its common practice, I don't think that's relevant to what should happen.

 

[Worgen]

There's a massive gap between 15k and "six figures". She could be paid six times as much as she was and not hit 6 figures.

And I don't really care if its common practice, I don't think that's relevant to what should happen.

Ok, you really need to get off of this 15k thing, since it was at LEAST 15k. I also noticed that you still haven't answered the questions above. You want to know something interesting, residuals aren't a thing in gaming for anyone and she sure as hell isn't going to be the first to get them. They probably should be a thing, but she probably did more damage to the idea of them from her misrepresentation then she did to further the idea that people should get them. Also, if she cared about doing VA work at all then she wouldn't have broken nda since she made herself toxic by doing that and will almost certainly never be hired for it again.

 

[Silvanus]

Ok, you really need to get off of this 15k thing, since it was at LEAST 15k. I also noticed that you still haven't answered the questions above.

Hellena Taylor's tweet thread specifically said it was 10k, followed by an additional 5k after she tried to negotiate.

I'm not answering questions I don't think have any relevance.

You want to know something interesting, residuals aren't a thing in gaming for anyone and she sure as hell isn't going to be the first to get them. They probably should be a thing, but she probably did more damage to the idea of them from her misrepresentation then she did to further the idea that people should get them. Also, if she cared about doing VA work at all then she wouldn't have broken nda since she made herself toxic by doing that and will almost certainly never be hired for it again.

Yep, and I'm not arguing that she should have broken NDA, or that she went about it the right way. None of that is what I'm talking about. I'm specifically talking about the state of pay in this industry.

I don't care if it's not the done thing. That's not a reason to just accept shitty practices. It never is. A practice doesn't somehow gain validity just by being widespread.

 

[Worgen]

Hellena Taylor's tweet thread specifically said it was 10k, followed by an additional 5k after she tried to negotiate.

I'm not answering questions I don't think have any relevance.

Welcome to the wonderful world of contract negotiation. Also, considering how she has portrayed what is going on, I have doubts about the context of any info she gives at this point. And you are completely ignoring how shes not owed a damn thing, Her voice might be Bayonetta's but Bayonetta is not her character and Platinum didn't even have to give her a call, just like she doesn't have to take whatever deal they offer her. Also that question is totally relevant, especially if you want to talk about the larger state of pay in the industry, since we need a baseline of where you are.

 

[CriticalGaming]

 

[BrawlMan]

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[BrawlMan]

"Nobody plays Bayonetta for the story...". Speak for yourself Skill Up. Speak for yourself. Ask Woolie, or play Bayonetta 2. I'm here for the characters, story and premise, and the gameplay. Of course, the gameplay and boss fights are most important, as is the spectacle. Thank you for the video, I posted a couple more, but I won't view them till way after I play the game.

Another thing about Verses, on harder difficulties, they usually last longer because they replace the enemy types or get stronger variations with more added in. It seems he hasn't played the other difficulties yet, and only played normal mode. Ironically, his complaint about how the Verses function, are r how a lot of action games play today, except the competitions tends to be longer. I'll have to see for myself, but this is nothing new to the franchise.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

I actually realized I'm not in the mood for this game right now- but to be fair that is most new games. I will wait a good long while. The first two are fresh in my hands/brain so now that we get to release date I'm not excited to play yet more Bayonetta.

Is there any chance you think that some day in the future it will be ported to PC or other platforms?

 

[BrawlMan]

The first two are fresh in my hands/brain so now that we get to release date I'm not excited to play yet more Bayonetta.

You want to play MOAR!

Is there any chance you think that some day in the future it will be ported to PC or other platforms?

Ask Nintendo. It's actually up to them, and not Platinum nor Sega. Spoilers, you're not going to like the answer.

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[Old_Hunter_77]

Yeah I figured as much.
Ugh, damn console exclusives. How can anyone put up with such arrogance, such anti-consumer restrictive bullcrap.
*replays Demons Souls*

 

[CriticalGaming]

Ask Nintendo. It's actually up to them, and not Platinum nor Sega. Spoilers, you're not going to like the answer.

I think the biggest shame with all of this is that the big flashy games just aren't going to work on the Switch. Which ultimately is going to cause them to loose 3rd party support just like it did with the Wii and Wii U.

Honestly I wish the Switch hadn't been such a successful system because it would really be cool to have real powerhouse Nintendo games on the level of The Witcher 3, God of War, etc. Imagine if Bayonetta 3 could look as good as DMC5. That would be fucking sick!