School shooting at Texas Elementary school, several children reported dead

[BrawlMan]

One year after Uvalde shooting, investigation of police response continues

A criminal investigation in Texas over the hesitant police response to the Robb Elementary School shooting is still ongoing a year after a gunman killed 19 children and two teachers in Uvalde. Wednesday marks one year since the deadliest school shooting in Texas history. The continuing...

apnews.com

On Uvalde shooting 1-year anniversary, a family feels betrayed

A year since a gunman killed 19 children and two teachers, a family says the lack of a full accounting of law enforcement's failures feels like "my child is meaningless to you."

www.nbcnews.com

Uvalde teacher who survived the mass shooting feels 'abandoned' by the school district

Arnulfo Reyes told his 11 students to play dead when a gunman entered his classroom and started firing. He was the only survivor in room 111.

www.google.com

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/29/us/nashville-uvalde-police-body-camera-response/index.html

Remembering the victims of the Uvalde, Texas massacre

Family members and friends shared photos and memories of their loved ones who were killed. Here’s what they want everyone to remember about the people they lost.

www.cnn.com

 

[Trunkage]

For .50 cals, yes. For explosives? No. I'm not aware of any caselaw that would support the idea that explosives or ordinance is covered under arms, nor any pro-2A group that has ever argued the same.

That's probably a tall order.

Like, I've seen discussion from 2Aers on how 'explosive can't be used for defensive purpose so there is no need to unrestrict them' arguments before and there is usually quite a few people who thinks explosives are very good for defensive purpose actually

Yes, it's not the group. Yet. But all the US' understand of gun culture today comes from only one person. Theu just have to be ruthless and unyeilding like he was

 

[CM156]

Not to worry, everyone. Someone has been held account for their inaction for the shooting.
Specifically a 15-year-old German girl who spoke to the shooter right before his crime, was told what he was going to do, and did not act.

German teenager who knew of Uvalde gunman's plans minutes before attack found guilty

A teenage girl who texted with the Uvalde mass shooting gunman on the day of the horrific attack was found guilty for not warning anyone.

cbsaustin.com

I am aware that this conviction was from October of last year, but it's being reported on now by the American press.

 

[BrawlMan]

Not to worry, everyone. Someone has been held account for their inaction for the shooting.
Specifically a 15-year-old German girl who spoke to the shooter right before his crime, was told what he was going to do, and did not act.

German teenager who knew of Uvalde gunman's plans minutes before attack found guilty

A teenage girl who texted with the Uvalde mass shooting gunman on the day of the horrific attack was found guilty for not warning anyone.

cbsaustin.com

I am aware that this conviction was from October of last year, but it's being reported on now by the American press.

I know most of those cops/SWAT are being suspended, but can they be jailed too? I feel like they should be jailed this more than preventable tragedy happened. I do know that the police department is facing a lawsuit, and this is something there are not walking away from.

 

[CM156]

I know most of those cops/SWAT are being suspended, but can they be jailed too? I feel like they should be jailed this more than preventable tragedy happened. I do know that the police department is facing a lawsuit, and this is something there are not walking away from.

I have not seen any law in Texas that would result in criminal prosecutions for law enforcement in this case. Hashtag "Not Legal Advice"
German law is very different than law in the United States. Courts have ruled that the police are not obligated to protect individual citizens.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Not to worry, everyone. Someone has been held account for their inaction for the shooting.
Specifically a 15-year-old German girl who spoke to the shooter right before his crime, was told what he was going to do, and did not act.

German teenager who knew of Uvalde gunman's plans minutes before attack found guilty

A teenage girl who texted with the Uvalde mass shooting gunman on the day of the horrific attack was found guilty for not warning anyone.

cbsaustin.com

I am aware that this conviction was from October of last year, but it's being reported on now by the American press.

...I'm 38 and it would take me quite a while to find the appropriate local emergency numbers of a foreign country, if I even believed the random internet person

 

[CM156]

...I'm 38 and it would take me quite a while to find the appropriate local emergency numbers of a foreign country, if I even believed the random internet person

It's a good time to be thankful, then, that you are not German.
(I actually have no idea if you're German or not)

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's a good time to be thankful, then, that you are not German.
(I actually have no idea if you're German or not)

It says United States as the country on their profile, so I'm guessing not, unless this is a really weird timeline.

 

[BrawlMan]

Courts have ruled that the police are not obligated to protect individual citizens.

Then why bother with "protect and serve" all over their vehicles? Then what good are they, if they can't even bother to save a bunch of school kids? Those cops in Tennessee did their job, so what's Uvalde's excuse?

All I can say is that I'm glad I live in a area where the police actually care about doing their job and not starting crap. I know cops can't save everyone, but they know what they signed up for. You have all that body armor and riot shields, if you can't do your job, then what good are you for? You might as well just be in a professional cosplayer and get out of everyone's way.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Then why bother with "protect and serve" all over their vehicles? Then what good are they, if they can't even bother to save a bunch of school kids? Those cops in Tennessee did their job, so what's Uvalde's excuse?

All I can say is that I'm glad I live in a area where the police actually care about doing their job and not starting crap. I know cops can't save everyone, but they know what they signed up for. You have all that body armor and riot shields, if you can't do your job, then what good are you for? You might as well just be in a professional cosplayer and get out of everyone's way.

Not to mention, this is of course in the US, where mass shootings are hardly an unusual event. They are something that all involved knew was a possibility well in advance.

 

[CM156]

Then why bother with "protect and serve" all over their vehicles?

Branding. They want the perception, but don't always want to put in the legwork.

 

[SilentPony]

Then why bother with "protect and serve" all over their vehicles? Then what good are they, if they can't even bother to save a bunch of school kids? Those cops in Tennessee did their job, so what's Uvalde's excuse?

All I can say is that I'm glad I live in a area where the police actually care about doing their job and not starting crap. I know cops can't save everyone, but they know what they signed up for. You have all that body armor and riot shields, if you can't do your job, then what good are you for? You might as well just be in a professional cosplayer and get out of everyone's way.

Police are there to protect corporations and politicians from us regular mook people. That's it.
Remember the whole Ferguson riots back in the day? Young black man shot and killed by police for the capital crime of jaywalking, etc...
Yeah I was going to school around there at the time. What they media didn't tell you is the cops weren't stationed to protect the city - they let that shit burn like it was the last night of summer camp and its time for spooky stories and Smors.
They were deployed at the Ferguson entrance of the headquarters of Emerson Electric, a giant multinational engineering company with multiple Government military contracts.
That's what the riots were really about, at least for the Government. They didn't give a shit about the looting and burning and racial injustice. They sent in the troops to protect a high value corporate asset.

 

[meiam]

The problem with police is that the people who would be great police officer avoid the profession more and more due to their bad actions, but cities/counties still need to hire them, so they're forced to higher worse and worse candidate which makes cop reputation worse, causing even less good people to apply. So in the end you're just left with a bunch of uneducated people who want to be legally allowed to beat up and kill people, It's just a downward spiral.

Thankfully its fairly easy to correct, you just need to aggressively and publicly fire bad cops and make it very clear that this will continue. Problematically cop union will fight that tooth and nail and the right will let that happen because they have guns and gun = good while the left will because union = good.

Realistically it would be good to start and separating some of the cop duty in different profession, giving ticket on the highway and responding to active gunman are completely different profession, a lot of non violent duty should be given to other separate service and a smaller number of people could be kept to respond to violent incident, and these could be vetted better.

 

[Kwak]

So in the end you're just left with a bunch of uneducated people who want to be legally allowed to beat up and kill people, It's just a downward spiral.

Thankfully its fairly easy to correct...

Yeah, but that assumes that 'downward spiral' isn't the whole intended purpose in the first place.
The thing you want to 'correct' it to has never actually existed and is purely cultural myth-making.
The people who could change it would never allow it because that's not what they want.

 

[SilentPony]

The problem with police is that the people who would be great police officer avoid the profession more and more due to their bad actions, but cities/counties still need to hire them, so they're forced to higher worse and worse candidate which makes cop reputation worse, causing even less good people to apply. So in the end you're just left with a bunch of uneducated people who want to be legally allowed to beat up and kill people, It's just a downward spiral.

Its worse than just having progressively dumber cops. Its an actual feature of police recruitment. There is a cut-off point where a candidate can be too smart to be a cop. They don't want smart cops who begin to question corporate mandates or racially charged laws. They want people smart enough to drive, and shoot a gun. There was a literal trial about it and the courts ruled that yes, smart cops are bad.

Jordan v. The City of New London, Policing Hiring and IQ: "When all the Answers They Don't Amount to Much" | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

Police Departments Can Turn Down Recruits With High IQs — Why We Need Smarter Officers

Can better education for law enforcement save lives?

www.yourtango.com

 

[Trunkage]

Its worse than just having progressively dumber cops. Its an actual feature of police recruitment. There is a cut-off point where a candidate can be too smart to be a cop. They don't want smart cops who begin to question corporate mandates or racially charged laws. They want people smart enough to drive, and shoot a gun. There was a literal trial about it and the courts ruled that yes, smart cops are bad.

Jordan v. The City of New London, Policing Hiring and IQ: "When all the Answers They Don't Amount to Much" | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

Police Departments Can Turn Down Recruits With High IQs — Why We Need Smarter Officers

Can better education for law enforcement save lives?

www.yourtango.com

In Australia, you cannot apply for the Police until you have finished one degree

 

[SilentPony]

In Australia, you cannot apply for the Police until you have finished one degree

I wish that was the case here in the US. The police mainly recruit from veterans just out of service, and the military mainly recruit either straight out of high school or drop outs.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I wish that was the case here in the US. The police mainly recruit from veterans just out of service, and the military mainly recruit either straight out of high school or drop outs.

Even then cops usually get the shitty vets. I mean, *sometimes* they get a good MP who remembers he's actually a civilian now and how his old use of force model was Good, Actually, but they tend to get fired pretty quick

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/us/wv-cop-fired-for-not-shooting--lawsuit/

Wild how the Military Police were always portrayed as the overly brutal bad police option compared to the heroic local sheriffs in the media of my youth, and these days I'd trust an MP *way* more than a civilian cop. Mostly because the modern cop does't care that they're civilians.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Not to worry, everyone. Someone has been held account for their inaction for the shooting.
Specifically a 15-year-old German girl who spoke to the shooter right before his crime, was told what he was going to do, and did not act.

German teenager who knew of Uvalde gunman's plans minutes before attack found guilty

A teenage girl who texted with the Uvalde mass shooting gunman on the day of the horrific attack was found guilty for not warning anyone.

cbsaustin.com

I am aware that this conviction was from October of last year, but it's being reported on now by the American press.

Well, it's good to see that we're holding teenage girls to their sworn duty to protect and serve, and protecting heavily armed men from danger.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Lmao, the SC being stuffed with conservative operatives isn't a new phenomenon, the current one is just way more blatant about it

LMAO, "operatives"...

I mean you can Google it: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-is-clear-gun-control-saves-lives/
Gun control laws do absolutely work.
Unless you're the NRA and have a finacial interest in selling more guns, then no gun control laws don't work: https://www.nraila.org/why-gun-control-doesn-t-work/
But then some people did the math: https://gun-control.procon.org/
"According to a Mar. 10, 2016 Lancet study, implementing federal universal background checks could reduce firearm deaths by a projected 56.9%; background checks for ammunition purchases could reduce deaths by a projected 80.7%; and gun identification requirements could reduce deaths by a projected 82.5%"
And it turns out guns as protection is an urban myth: Of the 29,618,300 violent crimes committed between 2007 and 2011, 0.79% of victims (235,700) protected themselves with a threat of use or use of a firearm, the least-employed protective behavior.

I didn't say they don't help, I said legislation isn't going to fix the problem on the whole. That's what I'm interested is in actually fixing things vs doing the bare minimum and washing your hands of it and acting like it's fixed. Can we stop with models saying if you do ABC, then the projected result is XYZ? Because those projected results are usually pie-in-the-sky numbers which aren't very realistic.

Where's the evidence it doesn't work? That was your assertion. Not that it doesn't work "significantly." Just that it doesn't work. Keep the goalposts where they started, please.



Illinois still has a gun problem because it borders states like Indiana that don't have gun control. Durr-hey.



Historically, the SCotUS has been more of a hindrance to progress than anything else. They just forgot how to lie about being corrupt.



Perfect is not the enemy of good.

Uhh... my first post about this was literally the following... I established my goal posts and haven't moved them... Notice how I said "solution"?

What's to happen politically because the solution isn't some bill or law? The actual problem is cultural and takes lots of work that nobody actually wants to do or discuss.

---

Yeah, gang bangers from Illinois are getting all their guns from Indiana, sure thing...

I'm not asking for perfect, just asking to actually identify and try to fix the real problem, doesn't have to be perfect but at least in the ballpark.