No, it really isn't. Unless Seanchaidh starts using (((them))) or other such whistles, it's patently obvious his use of Zionism was the actual political movement of Zionism which has nothing to do with Jews or Judaism. It's extremely obvious because he brought up the fact that Starmer has expelled more Jews for being anti-Zionist than Corbyn ever "scared away".
Right, but the purge of the Labour Party wasn't directed by Zionists. It was the result of relentless pressure from the conservative British press on a susceptible and defensive 'centrist' contingent within the Party. Neither of whom have any particular affiliation with Zionism.
I have known people who started with criticism of Israel and really did tragically end up down the antisemitic rabbit hole, and they didn't give themselves away with trite, coded internet speech. If you haven't had this happen to people you know, good for you - or perhaps more strictly good for the people you know. But my experience is that you like them and so you give them the benefit of the doubt here and there and there again, and then one day you cannot deny that they've crossed the line... and you never said anything.
susceptible and defensive? they were enthusiastic in their sabotage. and their only 'affiliation' with Zionism is believing the same things Zionists believe, equating Israel and Jewishness, giving Israel carte blanche to slaughter as many Arabs as they like, and so on. Questioning whether these things come from a commitment to Israeli settler colonialism or just a general belief in white supremacy is splitting hairs. "Human rights lawyer" Sir Keith bizarrely affirmed Israel's absolute right to starve a civilian population, but he has no particular affiliation with Zionism.
It's really hard to say that with Starmer's current political outlook on this specific conflict. They put a Zionist in charge, the whole antisemitism row was based around Corbyn not being friendly to Israel because as the investigations came out, when instances of antisemitism were allowed to come before Corbyn and his people, they dealt with it appropriately.
You can say that, but when I see that equivocation you made, it is always and only ever performed by people whose opinions on Israeli policy should be discarded. It's a gigantic red flag and seeing you make it comes across as a mask off moment. It makes your visceral hatred of Corbyn make more sense.
Indeed, he doesn't-- all of these actions come from cynical domestic politicking to blunt right-wing criticisms and achieve power.
Can you genuinely think of no other reason for the UK to vote against a ceasefire, other than genuine commitment to the expansionist/ settler ideology of a foreign government into land over two thousand miles away?
So he's doing precisely what the Zionists want. Cynically. But not at their direction.
Oh yeah, the money from said true believers. We already know and have seen that the Zionist lobbies are willing to throw a lot of money at politics specifically to unseat anti-zionists.
Your incredulity at some very basic and common domestic politicking isn't a compelling argument. Parties do what foreign governments want for self-centred reasons without a hidden cabal pulling their strings all the time.So he's doing precisely what the Zionists want. Cynically. But not at their direction.
OK.
Hidden cabal? Silvanus, this has all been quite out in the open. You must do X! Does X. But you have some sort of visceral reaction to the word 'direction', I guess.
The lobbying landscape in the UK is wildly different from that of the US. If you take the two biggest pro-Israel lobbying groups in the UK, they have a combined total budget of... ~£4m. And lobbying is a minor part of their role.
Uh-huh, but the 'you must do X' is coming from the Tory press, insular whackjobs who don't give a toss about how Israel's expansion is going. That's what you're overlooking in your effort to simplify British politics into American politics writ small.
Which is why of course that Starmer has equated anti-Zionism with antisemitism and is expelling (anti-Zionist) Jews at an alarming rate. If it isn't the money, maybe he really is just a true believer? It really doesn't matter either way, the Zionist interest, as one of many right wing interests, has captured the top of Labour and is solidifying authority within it.
The phrasing that Seanchaidh used implied that the Labour party internal factional conflict was the work of Zionists for the purpose of Zionism. As per Silvanus #1622 it manifestly is not. And lo and behold, he later confirms precisely that case. But it could be used to play on the traditional antisemitic claim of Jews operating outsize control of organisations and subverting their real intention to the benefit of the Jews.
It's the PR.
It may well be money-- not from the Zionist lobby, who spend a pittance in UK politics, but from weapons deals.
One thing I will definitely never take seriously from you two ever again is your claims that Corbyn was mealy mouthed. You are making a big stink to defend Starmer from claims of Zionism in the face of him advocating collective punishment of Palestinians. An actual war crimes enthusiast and all you can muster is exactly the defense Zionists make, criticism of Zionism is antisemitic conspiracy theories. Even if you both admit fully that Starmer is acting exactly in the Zionist lobby's interest, you have to do exactly what Zionists want and turn the conversation away from Israel's actions.
I'd encourage you to actually read what I wrote, because I haven't been defending his actions at all-- I think he's acting despicably. What I've been doing is encouraging people to correctly identify the motives for it.
I literally never said that or anything that could honestly be interpreted that way.
That's funny, considering I was the one who revived this thread when Israel invaded Gaza in October, and have been frequently posting about the war crimes of the IDF. But sure, nothing counts, its all just 'deflection' unless we attribute every shitty action to a Zionist lobby.
Oh, please. You'll notice that I'm laying the blame for this at the feet of the British press and the ones who capitulate to it. On the contrary, efforts to characterise it as the work of Zionists actually absolve the Tory press for their cynical self-service and manipulation.
No it doesn't because the Tory press is full of Zionists, the same way it's full of landlords and defense contractors. And instead of recognizing that, you want to pull sight away from the interests behind the press to the press itself. So now the Labour leader is a full blown Zionist, even if his only motive is that an Israeli flag pin matches his eyes. It's immaterial why he's advocating for Zionism, he is.
Congratulations on your submission to the "Current Events Forum Most Childish Post Of The Year" award.
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