Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

Ag3ma

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In that context though, it sure feels like israel definitely has us in a headlock where you can't wage any critisizim of israels government nor our foreign policy towards them without being anti-semitic.
One of the things that bothers me most about Israel (after what it does to the Palestinians) is that I feel it and its supporters increasingly leverage accusations of antisemitism to suppress valid criticism of the Israeli state.

This is not only a problem because it is a way to dishonestly shut down opinions and conversation, but also because it trivialises and demeans all the work put in to stamp out antisemitism since WW2. People's outrage at the behaviour of Israel is close and real and isn't going to just to disappear. Attempting to crudely suppress it through these tactics is mostly just going to remove sympathies towards the Jews for the terrible victimisation that they once suffered.

Once should be able to readily discuss the huge sums of money swilling around US politics dedicated to advancing the interests of Israel without constantly being accused of furthering antisemitic tropes of Jewish moneylenders and financial control of global governments.
 

Thaluikhain

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One of the things that bothers me most about Israel (after what it does to the Palestinians) is that I feel it and its supporters increasingly leverage accusations of antisemitism to suppress valid criticism of the Israeli state.

This is not only a problem because it is a way to dishonestly shut down opinions and conversation, but also because it trivialises and demeans all the work put in to stamp out antisemitism since WW2. People's outrage at the behaviour of Israel is close and real and isn't going to just to disappear. Attempting to crudely suppress it through these tactics is mostly just going to remove sympathies towards the Jews for the terrible victimisation that they once suffered.

Once should be able to readily discuss the huge sums of money swilling around US politics dedicated to advancing the interests of Israel without constantly being accused of furthering antisemitic tropes of Jewish moneylenders and financial control of global governments.
And it sees it would likely legitimise anti-semitism, if they equate legitimate criticism with it.
 

Eacaraxe

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One of the things that bothers me most about Israel (after what it does to the Palestinians) is that I feel it and its supporters increasingly leverage accusations of antisemitism to suppress valid criticism of the Israeli state.
"Increasingly"? Nothing has changed in this regard since at least the Second Intifada. By that, I specifically refer to gaslighting the global public through intentionally blurring the definitions of and distinction between Judaism, Israel, and Zionism, obfuscating antisemitism by definitional games, and leveraging proactive and false accusations of antisemitism to delegitimize valid criticism. Back in the Bush II days, you couldn't even whisper a word of criticism about the Gaza blockade without everyone and their cat coming out of the woodwork to deem you a neo-Nazi terrorist supporter.

Just because you may have been unaware how pervasive and insidious this rhetoric has been in the past, doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Once should be able to readily discuss the huge sums of money swilling around US politics dedicated to advancing the interests of Israel without constantly being accused of furthering antisemitic tropes of Jewish moneylenders and financial control of global governments.
One wonders if there might be a lesson in this...

1701778057037.png

...I wonder what that lesson just might be. If only there were some way to know...


Damn, I guess we'll just never know for sure.

And it sees it would likely legitimise anti-semitism, if they equate legitimate criticism with it.
That's one of the goals, dude. Forever war and imperialism needs forever enemies, and to have those you can never clearly define who those enemies are. See also, the ever-shifting, and functionally useless save to justify endless invasion, definition of "terrorist" during the Bush II administration in the wake of 9/11.

As we keep saying, Gaza and the West Bank are just the start; Israeli political and military leaders are already officially on-record as eyeballing Sinai, Lebanon, and Jordan next, atop the omnipresent anti-Syria and anti-Iran hawkishness.

That is, when Netanyahu and Likud aren't straight-out courting the support of far-right, (legitimately) antisemitic, crypto-fascist and in some cases outright neo-Nazi, parties and organizations across Europe. Maybe he thinks their hatred of Arabs and Muslims will override their hatred of the Jewish?







That is, when they're not outright calling anti-Zionist Jewish traitors who aren't really Jewish, and calling for either their imprisonment, expulsion from Israel, or death. Or more to the point, Zionists and their supporters tend more often than not to be the most antisemitic people on the face of the planet -- that is if you go by the actual definition of it, rather than the contemporary corrupted definition of "anyone not glowingly supportive of Israel, Zionism, and anything either may do".
 
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XsjadoBlayde

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Authoritarians/Conservatives obviously far too used to exercising false empathy for only hypothetical babies instead of real human lives, what can the poor bastards do except project their same bullshit onto this current Gaza genocide they seem bitterly determined to deny, defend, deflect and gaslight everyone else over?

 

Ag3ma

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Just because you may have been unaware how pervasive and insidious this rhetoric has been in the past, doesn't mean it didn't exist.
:rolleyes:

The thing is, when someone says that something is "increasingly" happening, as this is a reference to greater frequency / severity, it implicitly means they knew it was also happening earlier. If they thought it was new, they'd probably be using words like "started". (That's even before the possibility that you may want to reflect on contextual issues, such as people possibly being in different countries with different political and cultural circumstances.)

Which you might have cottoned onto were you not so consumed by your weird pathological need to shoehorn in angles to claim how much better informed and cleverer you are than everyone else. Honestly, it's not an attractive look, especially when you can't reliably back it up by actually being much better informed and insightful.
 

Eacaraxe

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...as this is a reference to greater frequency / severity...
You see, here's the thing. It's not occurring with greater frequency or severity. What's going on now, is exactly what's happened for the past twenty years, with the same frequency and severity. It just happens to be the case you're no longer capable of ignoring it or doublethinking it away as you might have in the past, like for example as you did during (and after) the swiftboating of Jeremy Corbyn.

Which you might have cottoned onto were you not so consumed by your weird pathological need to shoehorn in angles to claim how much better informed and cleverer you are than everyone else. Honestly, it's not an attractive look, especially when you can't reliably back it up by actually being much better informed and insightful.
Ooh is this the part where I start bringing citations and you sputter impotently about how stupiddumb you think I am without actually being able to challenge my argument or bringing your own citations? Because I already started bringing citations.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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facade cracks further more. legacy media's constant cold attempts to plough through cognitive dissonance with gritted teeth am dreading may be fracturing society in yet more ways that'll come back to bite us all in the arse years later

 

Seanchaidh

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:rolleyes:

The thing is, when someone says that something is "increasingly" happening, as this is a reference to greater frequency / severity, it implicitly means they knew it was also happening earlier. If they thought it was new, they'd probably be using words like "started". (That's even before the possibility that you may want to reflect on contextual issues, such as people possibly being in different countries with different political and cultural circumstances.)

Which you might have cottoned onto were you not so consumed by your weird pathological need to shoehorn in angles to claim how much better informed and cleverer you are than everyone else. Honestly, it's not an attractive look, especially when you can't reliably back it up by actually being much better informed and insightful.
I vaguely recall that your idea of what the Labour Party should do about its (mostly?) manufactured antisemitism crisis seemed to be to capitulate to the Zionists, so given that context 'increasingly' looks at first glance to be mildly self-serving. Not that we need to have a struggle session about it.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Wasn't aware the recently resigned US arms transfers approval dude was a posh Brit.

 

XsjadoBlayde

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Should've been one post, was too slow for edits, sorry for being more annoying spammer. than usual.


I'm joined by brilliant Israeli investigative journalist Yuval Abraham - of Israeli-Palestinian publication @972mag - https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassina... -
 

hanselthecaretaker2

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Odds are this shit is gonna start WW3, and the sad thing is we won’t have any allies this time.

In the meantime,
 
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XsjadoBlayde

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AIPAC big huge problem, now committed 100 million blood monies to unseating remaining progressive politicians who won't play genocide ball.

An excerpt from Ryan Grim’s new book reveals AIPAC reached out to Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez after she won her primary in 2018 and tried to bribe her with $100,000 to “start a conversation.” This revelation comes after AIPAC announced its plan to spend more than $100 million dollars to defeat progressive congress members for opposing Israel’s far right regime.

Sources: AIPAC Tried to Bribe AOC: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ocasio...
AOC Criticized Israel’s Occupation in 2028: https://www.timesofisrael.com/alexand...
Buy Ryan Grim’s Book Here: https://us.macmillan.com/books/978125...
Democrat Denounces Israel, Then Deletes Tweet and Says He was Hacked: / 1731920717539655879
Jamaal Bowman Has a Primary Opponent: https://www.commondreams.org/george-l...
AOC’s Fundraising Email for Bowman: / 1731844444515627144
Videos: AOC’s 2018 Interview with ‘Firing Line’ on PBS: • Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez | Full Episo...
John Fetterman Won’t Acknowledge Israel’s War Crimes: / 1731878682434691413
Ryan Grim’s Full Interview: / 1731687162548990227

Chapters:
0:00 AIPAC Attempts to Bribe AOC
5:42 Lobbying in Action
8:07 Progressives in Danger
10:36 Action Plan
13:16 Outro
 
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