Trump ordered to pay $350 million for fraudulent business practices in New York

Ag3ma

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''Trump derangement syndrome'' is just a pitiful attempt to shame people for being absolutely correct. Its funny that every prediction or fear that was so ''deranged'' turned true, even the fear he'd attempt to topple democracy by force.
Just to point out here, Phoenixmgs said he didn't want to hear any accusations against Trump unless Trump was convicted of something. But here we are with Trump convicted of fraud, and Phoenixmgs is still out there batting for him.

"Trump derangement syndrome", inasmuch as it might hypothetically exist, would apply both ways: it also represents people making absurd and hopelessly biased defences of him. In that sense, it's a moderately useless accusation because the average person flinging it is deranged in reverse.
 

tstorm823

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''Trump derangement syndrome'' is just a pitiful attempt to shame people for being absolutely correct. Its funny that every prediction or fear that was so ''deranged'' turned true, even the fear he'd attempt to topple democracy by force.
Oh hey look! There it is!
 

Elijin

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Question. If this was a different person, convicted with fraud on a large scale, would it also be deranged to want them to put the money in a bond before appealing? Especially when there is a clear concern they will dodge the penalty???

This seems pretty reasonable expectation all things considered, and griping over it feels like a reversal of this Trump derangement syndrome.
 

Ag3ma

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In other news:


No hurries! After all, I can't think of any reason that the electorate might want to know whether a presidential candidate broke the law before the election, especially when that candidate, if elected, could simply order the case dropped.
 

Ag3ma

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And also of note, as I had previously referenced TMTG's Russian connection, look what popped up in the Guardian today:


Although I stress the article reports that there is currently no evidence that TMTG or anyone involved with it behaved improperly or were aware that the money was potentially dodgy.
 

Piscian

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And also of note, as I had previously referenced TMTG's Russian connection, look what popped up in the Guardian today:


Although I stress the article reports that there is currently no evidence that TMTG or anyone involved with it behaved improperly or were aware that the money was potentially dodgy.
Yeah I don't want to make any assumptions about the resources. Even if the operating cash that justifies the value is russian it can still technically be legal. I'm curious why trump isn't promoting the stock more though to his followers or if he is why we haven't seen anything in the new about it.

I feel like the ap has really fallen into disrepair. It's all just soundbites anymore despite so much of the technical detail being freely available. It makes the mainstream news come off just as clickbaity as the altright rags. Like if you're going sound off on whatever is happening at least provide the data. If you want people to stop being knuckleheads you gotta start by respecting their ability to learn.

*wanders off rambling*
 

Phoenixmgs

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It's perfectly normal to expect someone to pay the penalty before appeal. After all, we jail convicted murderers and thieves pending their appeals, too. In terms of fines, it also restricts individuals dicking around with their money to try to deny it (spending it, or finding wheezes to conceal it, etc.)

Appealing is not strictly dependent on paying - appeals are (should be) inviolable legal process. Denying appeals would be stupid and outrageous. So stupid and outrageous, had you applied some common sense you'd realise that's obviously not how it works. Jurisdictions have systems to cater for situations where individuals have problems paying.

One of these is NY's bond system, where the individual can put a security up in place of paying the fine. This is what Trump was busy doing. Whether he put up a bond or not would not affect his right to appeal, but if he did not put up a bond he would be liable for the full fine. If he paid the fine and won the appeal he would then need to claim the fine value back as compensation. Hence why the bond is an attractive option, especially where the fine might require the liquidation of assets which would then be unrecoverable.

The situational problem here being that the fine/bond sum was huge, and Trump seemingly (but see below) did not have sufficient "cash" to cover it himself, or to satisfy lenders who do not like using real estate as collateral.

Hence the the appeals court reducing the burden of the bond, on the eminently reasonable basis that Trump could not borrow such sums without having to liquidate assets that he might not be able to recover in case of a successful appeal. I will leave aside the issue that Trump claimed he had liquid assets to cover the bond and then claimed he need to arrange a loan without liquid assets to cover it, indicating he - as usual - lied.

This seems fine (heh)...



...so perhaps you should try understand more of the process before demeaning others from a place of ignorance.
Ok, I thought Trump had to get the money to just merely appeal (as that's what the TC of the thread said in the first post). People that were charged criminally for something are rather different than those charged civilly with something. Being guilty criminally means that guilt was found beyond reasonable doubt whereas civil is just more likely than not. So, it's very likely that a criminal case appeal won't be successful obviously whereas a civil case has quite the difference in odds of being successful. Holding the appeal for a civil case equivalent to a criminal case doesn't make sense. Also why couldn't Trump or anyone move their money around during their case before the judgement happens?

I'm not the one asking at the start day of the deadline for Trump's bond status because I really don't care. You guys are letting this guy live rent free in your heads and you're not even in the US.

''Trump derangement syndrome'' is just a pitiful attempt to shame people for being absolutely correct. Its funny that every prediction or fear that was so ''deranged'' turned true, even the fear he'd attempt to topple democracy by force.
So when Trump said to open schools and the left said "no" was the left actually being correct?

Just to point out here, Phoenixmgs said he didn't want to hear any accusations against Trump unless Trump was convicted of something. But here we are with Trump convicted of fraud, and Phoenixmgs is still out there batting for him.

"Trump derangement syndrome", inasmuch as it might hypothetically exist, would apply both ways: it also represents people making absurd and hopelessly biased defences of him. In that sense, it's a moderately useless accusation because the average person flinging it is deranged in reverse.
A criminal conviction...

Again, I'm not the one coming here to ask if Trump paid a bond on deadline day because I don't really care about Trump.
 

Ag3ma

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It makes the mainstream news come off just as clickbaity as the altright rags. Like if you're going sound off on whatever is happening at least provide the data. If you want people to stop being knuckleheads you gotta start by respecting their ability to learn.
Pretty much none of the media infrastructure is geared to quality. The economics of it is fucked. The social aspect of it is fucked. The political aspect of it is fucked. It's nice there are those legacy media still trying hard as the entire ecosystem turns against the standards they used to stand for. We should probably in a way praise them as the last, crumbling bastions of standards even as the massive tidal wave horde of shit smashes down their walls and drowns the garrisons. AI will probably the kiss of death that finally overwhelms them.
 

Piscian

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Been doing some internet snooping. Im not well educated on stock financing but apparently nobody wants to touch Trump Media stock and theres weighting in place against shorting it because the exchange knows its a dead fish.

Trump Media & Technology Group: Expect Shares To Fall To The Single Digits

*I don't know much about Seeking Alpha. Its got good ratings as a subscription stock tip site, so take this with a grain of salt. Google seems to indicate their speculation seems very profitable.

Two investors are headed prison for insider trading on the stock. They apparently knew it was gonna be massively inflated and sold all their stock as on the public release and also told others to do the same.

Two plead guilty to insider trading related to Trump Media merger
 
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Elijin

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Ok, I thought Trump had to get the money to just merely appeal (as that's what the TC of the thread said in the first post). People that were charged criminally for something are rather different than those charged civilly with something. Being guilty criminally means that guilt was found beyond reasonable doubt whereas civil is just more likely than not. So, it's very likely that a criminal case appeal won't be successful obviously whereas a civil case has quite the difference in odds of being successful. Holding the appeal for a civil case equivalent to a criminal case doesn't make sense. Also why couldn't Trump or anyone move their money around during their case before the judgement happens?

I'm not the one asking at the start day of the deadline for Trump's bond status because I really don't care. You guys are letting this guy live rent free in your heads and you're not even in the US.


So when Trump said to open schools and the left said "no" was the left actually being correct?


A criminal conviction...

Again, I'm not the one coming here to ask if Trump paid a bond on deadline day because I don't really care about Trump.
Look the whole "I don't even care about trump, you guys let him take up headspace for nothing" bit may have made you feel clever and cool a year or two ago...

But now its just you clowning on yourself declaring how in an election year you don't care that one of the primary candidates has been found guilty of fraud. Gone from "pointless news doesn't bother to me" to "I'm a fucking dumbass who doesn't care about one of the most significant political roles in the world"
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Look the whole "I don't even care about trump, you guys let him take up headspace for nothing" bit may have made you feel clever and cool a year or two ago...

But now its just you clowning on yourself declaring how in an election year you don't care that one of the primary candidates has been found guilty of fraud. Gone from "pointless news doesn't bother to me" to "I'm a fucking dumbass who doesn't care about one of the most significant political roles in the world"
That's not his angle. He wants us to not pay attention to Trump so that Trump gets back in office and gives Phoenixmgs the world he thinks he deserves: One that celebrates and lauds him for being a white straight male American. That's why he keeps posting his worn-out, disproven arguments time and again- he doesn't want discussion; he wants to be told how right he is and how unfair the world is for not being his oyster.
 
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Piscian

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Apparently last year Trump Media was down to around 10$ a share. Insiders knew about this SPAC merger. SPAC (special purpose acquisition company) had all the cash, but there was a ton of hurdles because the trade commissions fought the merger tooth and nail. In theory it was still a gamble, but if you knew Trump was gonna get away with it you would have made out like a bandit at the open which was around $80 a share. Even if you were late to trading this week you woulda made 4X your investment.

Still no endgame. The speculation is that since Trumps friends make up like 60% of the board they could change the rules so he could trade on it early, but I think then the trade enforcements orgs would block it. It's more likely some byzantine shifting of operating cash to to trump affiliates will be how he gets access.

What I found kinda interesting, I'm not willing to make an account myself on truth social, but 90% of the in app ad are for Trump stuff so it's not making a ton of 3rd party ad revenue exactly, it's just syphoning more cash back to Trump. They had a million users last year 500k this year. I'm surprised they even took home $4mil. They really should be trying to open up the app for general audiences and 3rd party ad revenue streams. Hire a ad management consult or something, jeez. Truth Social isn't a bad name all things considered, but circling the wagons on both revenue and audience that's gonna kill the app.


402f1b2c-0e1e-45ef-9d13-12980ff8dc55_text.gif

Part of me wishes I was more in tune with this shit so I could make some epic payday, but it seems like to get rich on this stuff it's gotta be your whole identity. I was reading about some investor that just "retired" worth 1.7 billion and then immediately admitted he's still trading. Clearly its basically just addiction to "growth". I'd call it gambling but these guys they know they are cheating. It's more just wealth hoarding.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Look the whole "I don't even care about trump, you guys let him take up headspace for nothing" bit may have made you feel clever and cool a year or two ago...

But now its just you clowning on yourself declaring how in an election year you don't care that one of the primary candidates has been found guilty of fraud. Gone from "pointless news doesn't bother to me" to "I'm a fucking dumbass who doesn't care about one of the most significant political roles in the world"
I'm trying to point out that voting for either Trump or Biden doesn't actually matter, you gotta vote them all out if you guys actually want things to change. You guys on the left thinking getting Biden to win is an accomplishment is the same as those thinking that Trump getting elected is an accomplishment. Just like when ya'll on the left look down on the election deniers when you all believed Trump colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election. You're 2 sides of the same coin. I'm not voting for either Trump or Biden and I would prefer neither of them to win.

What would change if some other Republican was running instead of Trump that wasn't convicted of fraud? And you can get like anyone for the fraud they got Trump for. The fact that the NY AG ran on running on a platform to "get Trump" doesn't show any bias? You can throw cases like these at most politicians, it just shows they are specifically targeting Trump, which is an extremely bad look for a democracy. Yet Trump is the only danger to democracy? Is it so bad to allow people to vote for who they want in a democracy that you have to go after the other party's most popular candidate that's also a former president? If they had some actual criminal charges that would stick, maybe people would care. But when you've cried wolf so much, why is anyone going to care? You had that 3-year Trump-Russia collusion bullshit that was all a lie. Then, you try to get Trump off ballots in a very obvious unconstitutional manner you knew would be overturned. The one case I would be interested in was the Georgia case and they basically butt fumbled that shit.


That's not his angle. He wants us to not pay attention to Trump so that Trump gets back in office and gives Phoenixmgs the world he thinks he deserves: One that celebrates and lauds him for being a white straight male American. That's why he keeps posting his worn-out, disproven arguments time and again- he doesn't want discussion; he wants to be told how right he is and how unfair the world is for not being his oyster.
LMAO, you guys desperately need to pay attention to Trump, you can't quit. Even your media can't quit. You make a big deal about not broadcasting his speech after a primary because his lies are dangerous (while constantly lying on your network all the time with your own worn-out, disprove arguments time and again). Then, the media even goes and lies about the "bloodbath" quote because you can't not pay attention to Trump. You can't quit him.

My signature and favorite quote is perfectly apt for most of the users here.
 

Ag3ma

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What I found kinda interesting, I'm not willing to make an account myself on truth social, but 90% of the in app ad are for Trump stuff so it's not making a ton of 3rd party ad revenue exactly, it's just syphoning more cash back to Trump.

It is also interesting to read from that article that Truth Social does not even seem to be advertiser-friendly, despite that being its main revenue source.

They had a million users last year 500k this year. I'm surprised they even took home $4mil. They really should be trying to open up the app for general audiences and 3rd party ad revenue streams. Hire a ad management consult or something, jeez. Truth Social isn't a bad name all things considered, but circling the wagons on both revenue and audience that's gonna kill the app.
Firstly, I will bet you that Truth Social was not set up by expert tech masterminds. It was almost certainly a sort slapdash bodge-job: some generic chancer entrepreneurs who got some off-the-shelf tech types to oversee the development using open source tools with a few bolt-ons and collaborations with other IT companies that mostly knew what they were doing.

I would however hazard a guess that the plan was never really to create a great social media experience to challenge the majors. It's like all Trump's branding spin-offs: Trump water, Trump steaks, Trump "university", Trump bathroom products, Trump clothing... lazy cash-ins. The product is either poor, or wildly overpriced, or both. The aim is simply to eke out what money can be made in a rush. (In many cases, of course, Trump isn't doing anything but licensing his name.)

Hence also the noted opacity of Truth Social's figures. If they know they can surf a wave of right-wing hopes, dreams and political mania to make money, they could do a whole lot better that way than they would by giving anyone solid information that could be used to make things realistic. Hence also the SPAC, and so on. It stinks of them trying to either keep a leaky boat floating for as many years as possible (during which time they'll have salaries and dividends to take out), or trying to cash out before it sinks on unwise investors' money.
 
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Elijin

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You think people are following this news because of who they plan to vote for???

People are following this story because it's a pretty big deal for a potential president to be on the hook for 350mil in fraud charges. Both because he may try and stall long enough to pardon himself, and because that's your world leader openly convicted of fraud. Real confidence inspiring there.

This isn't about votes, it's about world news.
 

Ag3ma

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This isn't about votes, it's about world news.
I'm just going to point out that as a citizen whose country has a major defence alliance with the USA, hearing the potential next president of the USA threaten to severely disrupt or even dump that alliance is a pretty big issue.

Plus of course that ongoing conflict not too far away in Ukraine, where the potential next president looks very much like he's just going to sell out that ally to an aggressive and hostile enemy regime which may then pose further threats to my part of the world.

Or Gaza, which many people feel strongly about, and the potential next president is just going to hand Israel a blank cheque - potentially empowering them to do something even more catastrophically awful than they already are. Although I'd temper that to a degree by pointing out that the current incumbent isn't exactly holding much of a humanitarian-centred stance either.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Oh look, Phoenixmgs is doing that thing again where he's totally not for either side while defending one side tooth and nail.

No wait, that's pretty much all he ever does.
Or Gaza, which many people feel strongly about, and the potential next president is just going to hand Israel a blank cheque - potentially empowering them to do something even more catastrophically awful than they already are. Although I'd temper that to a degree by pointing out that the current incumbent isn't exactly holding much of a humanitarian-centred stance either.
Yeah, I don't think Trump could do any worse on Gaza, other than saying 'lol' as it's happening.
 
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Gergar12

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Because economics, as a discipline, is a scam

It's probably from stock sales and investments
Economics is simply the study of dividing resources among people. Most bachelor's degree economists are left-wing graduates. We aren't all Larry Summers or Alan Greenspan.

Plus stocks and investments are more of a business school/finance thing.
 

Ag3ma

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Plus stocks and investments are more of a business school/finance thing.
An important distinction - I suspect a lot of people confuse business and economics. The reality is that a lot of economists would make poor businessmen, and many businessmen would make poor economists.

Which is why it's frustrating when people think that good businessmen will make good national leaders because they understand the economy.
 

BrawlMan

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No wait, that's pretty much all he ever does
Now you're getting it!

That's not his angle. He wants us to not pay attention to Trump so that Trump gets back in office and gives Phoenixmgs the world he thinks he deserves: One that celebrates and lauds him for being a white straight male American. That's why he keeps posting his worn-out, disproven arguments time and again- he doesn't want discussion; he wants to be told how right he is and how unfair the world is for not being his oyster.
Thank you.