The Shattered Elden Ring Thread: Tarnished Edition - (Shadow of the Erdtree p. 85)

[Old_Hunter_77]

Yeah it takes the pressure off. That’s why I like NG+ in this one to just roll through stuff with different setups. Did you know in the chariots hero graves you can use Margit’s Shackle on the chariots to instantly destroy them? I think that’s the one where two of them go back and forth. You can just stand in a safe spot in the middle tunnel and use the shackle to trigger the fire trap, which makes them collide. It also works in general finding illusory walls. Probably wasn’t really intended but then again it’s been kept since launch.

Making me previous post inspired me to get back in the game after a hearty breakfast and take them down. I didn't know about margit's shackle and I don't even have it in my inventory, I just looked up a video for guidance, a general direction of where to go, and took it from there.
Best of all, I took down the double crucible knights on the first shot- used jellyfish bro to distract one while I used guard counters and my poise to take down one, then t'other. It's so pleasing when the build craft works!

And now I am using a couple pieces of their armor for maximum fashion souls drip.

Feels good to get my Souls groove back on...

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Well, at least none of these hot takes are as dumb as this one from a few years ago:
View attachment 11499

As a reminder, Salama was one of the devs at EA for SW: BF2, BFV, and BF2042, and at the time of this post this and currently working at Ubisoft.

UX design is fairly subjective, and he may have had a point there if all his game works didn't have crap UX/UI themselves

Well I also don't think that was such a dumb take and I understand the Horizon devs being pissed off.

Forbidden West came out and all that was covered was that it suffered due to Elden Ring coming out shortly thereafter even the two games are totally different. Then when Elden Ring was praised as the GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU'RE A SHIT discourse, Forbidden West was held up as the example of bad open world design- even though the two games are totally different.

Elden Ring does not have quest design- that's just a fact. The NPC "quests" are a bunch of reading guides to talk to NPCs then get random shit then reload checkpoints to end up with them dead. While Horizon games have actual story quests. And that's fine because the two games totally different.

A whole industry shitting on Forbidden West for not being Elden Ring understandably made a couple devs want to clap back a bit. I don't begrudge them.

 

[BrawlMan]

whole industry shitting on Forbidden West for not being Elden Ring understandably made a couple devs want to clap back a bit. I don't begrudge them.

People unfairly comparing other games to dark souls has been a thing going since the early to mid 2010s with mainly forums and people on youtube. When everyone in the industry start doing it. You know it's gotten really bad. I hate those type of people of both kinds and they really need to sit down and shut up. I'm remember one YouTube user was making comparisons to Dark Souls games with Devil May Cry games that makes zero sense. In addition to making DMC sound worst, he of coursr uses clips from the "reboot"and not from the actual og games. When going on and on about how DMC and alll other games do difficulty "wrong" in comparisons to Dark Souls. Something he really never elaborates upon much other than "it just does".

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Making me previous post inspired me to get back in the game after a hearty breakfast and take them down. I didn't know about margit's shackle and I don't even have it in my inventory, I just looked up a video for guidance, a general direction of where to go, and took it from there.
Best of all, I took down the double crucible knights on the first shot- used jellyfish bro to distract one while I used guard counters and my poise to take down one, then t'other. It's so pleasing when the build craft works!

And now I am using a couple pieces of their armor for maximum fashion souls drip.

Feels good to get my Souls groove back on...

If you’re still interested you can get it from Patches, or his bell bearing at the hold if he’s kaput.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Elden Ring does not have quest design- that's just a fact. The NPC "quests" are a bunch of reading guides to talk to NPCs then get random shit then reload checkpoints to end up with them dead. While Horizon games have actual story quests. And that's fine because the two games totally different.

There is design, just not the type that fills the player in beyond whatever the characters explain themselves. Their new locations don’t show on the map until you actually find them, just like everything else in the game. I’m surprised Tanith even hands out map markers for the phantoms. Rykard represents gluttony though, so ironically enough waste makes haste I guess.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

If you’re still interested you can get it from Patches, or his bell bearing at the hold if he’s kaput.

Well I still have to fight Margot (?), the last boss of Lyndell, who I think is like the same person, dunno if it would work on him?

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

People unfairly comparing other games to dark souls has been a thing going since the early to mid 2010s with mainly forums and people on youtube. When everyone in the industry start doing it. You know it's gotten really bad. I hate those type of people of both kinds and they really need to sit down and shut up. I'm remember one YouTube user was making comparisons to Dark Souls games with Devil May Cry games that makes zero sense. In addition to making DMC sound worst, he of coursr uses clips from the "reboot"and not from the actual og games. When going on and on about how DMC and alll other games do difficulty "wrong" in comparisons to Dark Souls. Something he really never elaborates upon much other than "it just does".

Definitely also a part of the Witcher 3 backlash towards its combat. I've seen countless expressions of how W3 should have had combat like Dark Souls/Sekiro or Monster Hunter. And, again.. no. While I do think the next witcher games needs to do something much better with its combat than the previous games, TW3 is the master class in narrative quest design and world building.

Devil May Cry, The Witcher, Horizon, Soulsies... it's just a blessing to have all these amazing franchises that emphasize different aspects under the umbrella of "third person action."

There's a reason when pressed for my favorite games from friends and acquaintances I saw Bloodborne and The Witcher 3, representing the two strands of gameplay I love the most.

 

[BrawlMan]

Definitely also a part of the Witcher 3 backlash towards its combat. I've seen countless expressions of how W3 should have had combat like Dark Souls/Sekiro or Monster Hunter. And, again.. no. While I do think the next witcher games needs to do something much better with its combat than the previous games, TW3 is the master class in narrative quest design and world building.

There are crazy double standards that these obsessed Souls fans have. "The combat of these games should be more like the games I play". Nobody panics, and it's all part of the "plan". But whenever somebody suggests the opposite or says the Souls games should play more like a DMC, NG, or Greek GoW, everyone loses their minds! Ironic, because there are a couple of games that already do that or are releasing and going to do that.

Devil May Cry, The Witcher, Horizon, Soulsies... it's just a blessing to have all these amazing franchises that emphasize different aspects under the umbrella of "third person action."

Agreed! It's good to have variety and not everything be the same. Isn't that right seventh generation cover shooters that are stuck on the consoles they debute?

There's a reason when pressed for my favorite games from friends and acquaintances I saw Bloodborne and The Witcher 3, representing the two strands of gameplay I love the most.

Good to hear.

 

[FakeSympathy]

Well I also don't think that was such a dumb take and I understand the Horizon devs being pissed off.

Forbidden West came out and all that was covered was that it suffered due to Elden Ring coming out shortly thereafter even the two games are totally different. Then when Elden Ring was praised as the GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU'RE A SHIT discourse, Forbidden West was held up as the example of bad open world design- even though the two games are totally different.

Elden Ring does not have quest design- that's just a fact. The NPC "quests" are a bunch of reading guides to talk to NPCs then get random shit then reload checkpoints to end up with them dead. While Horizon games have actual story quests. And that's fine because the two games totally different.

A whole industry shitting on Forbidden West for not being Elden Ring understandably made a couple devs want to clap back a bit. I don't begrudge them.

Fair points. There is a difference between making quest designs deductive vs cryptic and Elden ring (or most of the soulsborne games) sadly falls in the latter; I remember in ES3: Morrowind since there was no map you have to actually rely on quest descriptions and NPC dialogs to get clues on what to do next. Elden Ring tries this, but in the end it just ends up being cryptic with most of their quests; I.E. Yura Questline. I can appreciate you have to find him in the first place, but after that where he is gonna appear is cryptic af.

However, I think Forbidden West does suffer from having such basic quest designs; Collect this, kill that, talk to this NPC, etc. and blantantly telling you where to go on the map. It's not just FW, but most of the open-world games seems to have this problem.

For the UX/UI critism, again the original person may have had a point there, but 1. the guy never explained in details on why ER's UX is bad, and 2. everything that the guy had worked on by that point (and maybe even still) had some really bad UX at launch. So he really didn't have much ground to stand

 

[Xprimentyl]

Fair points. There is a difference between making quest designs deductive vs cryptic and Elden ring (or most of the soulsborne games) sadly falls in the latter; I remember in ES3: Morrowind since there was no map you have to actually rely on quest descriptions and NPC dialogs to get clues on what to do next. Elden Ring tries this, but in the end it just ends up being cryptic with most of their quests; I.E. Yura Questline. I can appreciate you have to find him in the first place, but after that where he is gonna appear is cryptic af.

No, Elden Ring (and most FROM games) tried nothing so overt. At least in Morrowind, your were given location names and/or cardinal directions to put you on the path to completion; FROM just throws an NPC at you, and if you pick a flower, find an item, or kill a wholly unrelated boss out of order, you can fuck their quest up without ever knowing you fucked it up. FROM's quests are entirely unintuitive; without a wiki, you've no idea what to do next or what needs to happen next to advance them. I think that's why they tie so little of significant, determinable substance to their side quests; they know they couldn't reasonably expect someone to suss out their convoluted webs to progress the core game. The quests are almost like Easter eggs; you can complete the game without ever finding them, but doing so adds to the overall experience. That's not a concession; I personally hate FROM's side quests because they are so hard to intuit, but it does follow with their general type of storytelling, so I can't call them out for inconsistency.

 

[FakeSympathy]

No, Elden Ring (and most FROM games) tried nothing so overt. At least in Morrowind, your were given location names and/or cardinal directions to put you on the path to completion; FROM just throws an NPC at you, and if you pick a flower, find an item, or kill a wholly unrelated boss out of order, you can fuck their quest up without ever knowing you fucked it up. FROM's quests are entirely unintuitive; without a wiki, you've no idea what to do next or what needs to happen next to advance them. I think that's why they tie so little of significant, determinable substance to their side quests; they know they couldn't reasonably expect someone to suss out their convoluted webs to progress the core game. The quests are almost like Easter eggs; you can complete the game without ever finding them, but doing so adds to the overall experience. That's not a concession; I personally hate FROM's side quests because they are so hard to intuit, but it does follow with their general type of storytelling, so I can't call them out for inconsistency.

Yeah, it's a beef I've had with FROM since I picked up Dark Souls. A good example is in Dark Souls, where the fate of Solaire is determined by whether you open that secret path and kill those bugs; Seriously, how was anyone supposed to figure that out? I was really sad to put him out of his misery in my first playthrough.

Some would argue that it's a feature/part of the experience, as the entire series is designed to have players figure things out on their own, from lore/item descriptions, leveling up proper stats, aceesing certain areas, and to quest progressions. I kinda agree with them, but quest designs do need some improvement.

At least in Elden ring, there are paintings for clues for special items or notes that the NPCs give you that vaguely explain what they want you to do. It's a step in the right direction, but they need to take things up a notch

 

[Xprimentyl]

Yeah, it's a beef I've had with FROM since I picked up Dark Souls. A good example is in Dark Souls, where the fate of Solaire is determined by whether you open that secret path and kill those bugs; Seriously, how was anyone supposed to figure that out? I was really sad to put him out of his misery in my first playthrough.

My least favorite from DS1 is Seigmeyer's quest. It's not so unreasonable to find and talk to him in the various locations to move him around, but it's the penultimate meeting in Lost Izalith where you have to kill the mobs he attacks before his health drops below 50%. There's absolutely ZERO way to know where his health is at, and ZERO reason to think to look for him afterward in arguably the remotest and easily missed area in the game for the final meeting and quest reward which is one of the rarest resources in the game.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

I just encountered this face last night -



Anyways, shortly after that fight with a death knight I wound up draining a church which revealed some stuff. Cool thing to stumble upon, and a bright point to the exploration factor which is noticeable sparser in Shadow realm vs base game. By that I mean there is a lot more hidden stuff vs being out in the open on the beaten path. Very desolate and often cryptic which conveniently fits the thematic elements; particularly with Shadow Keep and Midra’s Manse. I’ve covered probably around 2/3 of the completed surface map but there’s still a ton of stuff I’ve not yet found in terms of weapons and gear seen on the Fextra. Between Reddit and YouTube I’m aware of certain things at this point like that and who the end boss is, as well as a new dragon or two, but avoiding the temptation to look for locations of stuff because it feels like deflated *Marika’s* tits going down that rabbit hole.

Also rebirthed back to a quality build like I’d originally started this character with on PC, as I’m really digging the versatility of these smithscript weapons.

 

[CriticalGaming]

What is "stupid" about that very obvious observation?

Difficulty is not accessibility. Having a real life is not a disability. That's what makes those takes stupid. That's it. I dunno why you have to bring up her being a woman as if that has any influence on whether or not her take was dumb or not. It would be just as stupid of an excuse if a man said it. I brought up only her name because I know who she is.

The whole point of a forum, of discussion in general, is specifically to talk about our opinions. What even are we doing here if not talking about our opinions and responding to the opinions of others?

 

[BrawlMan]

Difficulty is not accessibility.

It actually can be depending on the circumstances. The line gets blurred further as time moves on. There are differences of course, but I'm not going to whine about it.

Having a real life is not a disability. That's what makes those takes stupid. That's it.

You don't speak for everybody else's circumstances and daily challenges. There is a thing called temporary disability, and you seem to have forgotten that or ignored her point. As you do have the time and don't listen. It's only stupid because you claim. It's not care in the first place. And you're only speaking for yourself and assuming everybody's like you, or enough of them like you are all that matter. Quit smelling the crap you're shoveling for once and get off of the high horse.

I'm also sick of this crap of so called hardcore gamers throwing up a biatch fit Whenever a woman or somebody of a different color has an opinion or wants to add in their input. She was only explaining others people's views or views not like everybody else's. Different people exist with their own lives like anybody else. As far as i'm concerned, the people that are most vocal about it or have a problem with her thoughts are part of the problem and not her. They need to stop being part of the problem and actually part of the solution. Or shut up and get out and stay in their own little head space not bothering people with actually something worthy of saying.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Difficulty is not accessibility.

... I never said anything about difficulty being accessibility. I'm talking about pausing, a feature that has been found in most games for decades, and the lack thereof in Elden Ring and Souls games is pretty unnecessary as it adds nothing to the game, least of all difficulty, so being of the opinion that they could use a pause feature isn't a wildly "stupid" take.

You've died on this hill on a multitude of occasions, that desiring any sort of change to a game is somehow an offence to the devs' integrity, and if people can't play a game as intended then they just shouldn't. Why is wanting reasonable QoL improvements "stupid?" Hell, devs make patches to their games all the time; do you rail at them for not leaving the game as intended?

Having a real life is not a disability.

I never said that either, at least not in the absurdly broad sense you've chosen to take my words. But in the strictest sense of the word, yes, having a "real life" could be considered a disability insofar as one might be unable to do certain things under circumstances beyond their control. A father can't leave his infant alone to go out drinking; he's literally disabled from doing so responsibly. Situational disability. Now, if he gets a babysitter, a reasonable accommodation, he is then able. Situational ability.

That's what makes those takes stupid. That's it. I dunno why you have to bring up her being a woman as if that has any influence on whether or not her take was dumb or not. It would be just as stupid of an excuse if a man said it. I brought up only her name because I know who she is.

And I only brought up that she's a woman... because she IS one. That's a fact of the discussion. I don't know her name, so when referencing her, I'm going to use words like "She," and "her" and, yeah, "woman." I didn't accuse you of being sexist or suggested your very pointed response to her opinion was somehow fueled by her gender. Don't take offence where there's none to be had.

The whole point of a forum, of discussion in general, is specifically to talk about our opinions. What even are we doing here if not talking about our opinions and responding to the opinions of others?

Agreed, I just noted how hostile your calling a reasonable opinion "stupid" sounded. I mean, there are a lot of opinions I'd call stupid, but they tend to merit it, and I try to back myself up with reasons I feel that way. So let me ask you, other than FROM hasn't done it thus far, what makes suggesting you should be able to pause "stupid' exactly?

 

[CriticalGaming]

... I never said anything about difficulty being accessibility. I'm talking about pausing, a feature that has been found in most games for decades, and the lack thereof in Elden Ring and Souls games is pretty unnecessary as it adds nothing to the game, least of all difficulty, so being of the opinion that they could use a pause feature isn't a wildly "stupid" take.

So let me ask you, other than FROM hasn't done it thus far, what makes suggesting you should be able to pause "stupid' exactly?

Well that's because the game isn't single player the way people claim. You've never been able to pause multiplayer games and just because you are alone doesn't mean the game is offline or isn't exhibiting multiplayer attributes like messages, blood pools, player ghosts, etc etc. So the lack of the pause feature has been standard in always on-line games, or is everyone forgetting that Souls games have been online connected constantly since the very beginning. IIRC if you play in offline mode you CAN pause the game. Either way, this argument is dumb. Souls games are not and have NEVER been single player games. I dunno what to tell you. You can't pause a CoD lobby, you can't pause an MMO, you can't pause any game actively connected to an online service of some sort. Which more and more games are starting to become.

Thus all the information explained, the argument for a pause button is therefore stupid imo, because Fromsoft games aren't the strictly single player experiences that people are claiming. Seikro had a pause though, and you know why? No online anything, therefore it could be paused. *mild shock*

Additionally, the lack of a pause button is not a detriment because losing a single life or boss attempt or whatever is not a catastrophic wall that prevents you from playing through the game. It's a very minor setback in 99% of cases. Additionally these games often have very safe places to hang out an go AFK if needed without pausing being an issue. So the lack of a pause feature is minimally concerning.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Whenever a woman or somebody of a different color has an opinion or wants to add in their input.

Their sex, gender, or race has nothing to do with this. Being a minority doesn't grant you immunity protection from having a dumb take on something. Stop trying to use that shit as a shield. Or are you saying it's okay to have a bad take when your marginalized because marginalized folks can't possibly know any better? That sounds pretty fucked up dude.

 

[BrawlMan]

Their sex, gender, or race has nothing to do with this. Being a minority doesn't grant you immunity protection from having a dumb take on something. Stop trying to use that shit as a shield. Or are you saying it's okay to have a bad take when your marginalized because marginalized folks can't possibly know any better? That sounds pretty fucked up dude.

I never said it did, nor they weren't immune to criticism. You nnce again missed a point and not what I wasn't even talking about. How do you keep doing that? Learn to actually read and pay attention. It still doesn't change the fact that people who were criticizing went way too hard or was just mocking her for the sake of it anf for having an opinion and felt like she had "nothing of value or worthy to say". When it wasn't about them in the first place, and then getting bitchy because they want be exclusive as possible because they're miserable little shits who think not having a life is a skill.

Stop trying to use that shit as a shield. Or are you saying it's okay to have a bad take when your marginalized because marginalized folks can't possibly know any better? That sounds pretty fucked up dude.

Not what I was aiming at in the first place and don't know where you're getting that from. Actually read and stop coming up with theories that have nothing to do with anything. Once again for somebody that says it doesn't care, you're getting awfully hostile and crying a lot about some lady's opinion. Just to make you actually care. You've done this before you keep saying it, don't. But you do or you try to speak for somebody who doesn't need speaking for, and they can clearly make their own decisions like an actual adult.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Interestingly enough, Sekiro added the best form of player ghosts a FROM game has had in an update, although I’m not sure if it affected the ability to pause. Pretty sure not, but could be mistaken.

Also, there’s a mod for pausing in ER, but *surprise surprise* it only works while disabling anti-cheat and in offline mode.

https://screenrant.com/elden-ring-pause-button-added-pc-mod/

Anyways,