Trump assassination attempt

tstorm823

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In short: so it's not politics that this all comes from, as you claimed before. It's society's conception of gender.
Which has been intensely politicized for decades.
Odd, then, that those who tend to believe boys & girls can act however they want, and that behaviours/jobs/colours/etc aren't gendered... are also more likely to identify differently to their birth sex, and more likely to be affirmational, etc. The queer community generally roundly rejects stereotypical gender roles. And those who believe boys must fit into traditionally boyish roles, and girls into traditionally girlish roles-- tend to be the conservative & religious sectors that oppose transition.
You made all of this up in your mind. There's not a conservative movement against tomboys, nobody is trying to keep men out of nursing, and the group of people most politically vocal about people not being bound to certain behaviors by their sex are those you'd call TERFs.
 

Silvanus

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Which has been intensely politicized for decades.
And you think the political angle is what's really convincing those adolescents and pre-adolescents, do you?

You made all of this up in your mind. There's not a conservative movement against tomboys, nobody is trying to keep men out of nursing, and the group of people most politically vocal about people not being bound to certain behaviors by their sex are those you'd call TERFs.
Have you been living under a rock? Are you genuinely unaware of how conservatives have been banging on about "traditional" gender roles for decades-to-centuries? How women should stay in the kitchen, men should be the breadwinners, certain jobs are "for men", cross-dressing is "gay"? Whereas the queer community has been overwhelmingly loudest about expressing yourself however you wish.

I have not "made up" something I've seen and heard explicitly from conservative outlets and conservative politicians for many years. You're drastically out of step with your own adopted political camp on this question.
 
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Piscian

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Watching Kim Cheatle speak at before the house on the assassination attempt. It's such a weird gotcha to hear "suspicious person" and then "Trump Rally" in the same sentence. Like finding waldo in a waldo cloning facility.

That said,

I get that this is kinda just the usual oversight wank fest, but I do think she coulda done a better job making some excuses. Gotta hold somebody accountable, like 3-4 somebodies. I have a outage at my work and we know who mis-clicked inside of a day. Give'm so sort of basic triage and POA.

AOC had a really solid question. "If an AR, one of the most popular retail rifles in the US has a 400y accuracy range, why was the parameter not 400y?".
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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AOC had a really solid question. "If an AR, one of the most popular retail rifles in the US has a 400y accuracy range, why was the parameter not 400y?".
Not sure where people are getting the idea that the AR-15 has a practical accuracy range of only 400 yards. The AR-15 is one of the most accurate semi-auto rifles out of the box. Even the cheaper ones can usually hit under 3moa, and higher end rifles can hit sub 1 moa with a bit of tuning.

Here's a video of a guy using his competition rifle out to 800 yards pretty effectively.

 

Piscian

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Not sure where people are getting the idea that the AR-15 has a practical accuracy range of only 400 yards. The AR-15 is one of the most accurate semi-auto rifles out of the box. Even the cheaper ones can usually hit under 3moa, and higher end rifles can hit sub 1 moa with a bit of tuning.

Here's a video of a guy using his competition rifle out to 800 yards pretty effectively.

There's effective range and maximum range. You can hit a target quite some distance but the listed effective range at 80% is 400-600y yards. the question of whether or not you could kill someone gets complicated.


That said, Looking at the article the most likely situation here is that AOC mixed up the AR with the AK which has a lower effective range.

I still the argument as valid on questioning the parameter. It sounds like this is all gonna turn into excuses about limited resources and time to plan.
 

Thaluikhain

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There's effective range and maximum range. You can hit a target quite some distance but the listed effective range at 80% is 400-600y yards. the question of whether or not you could kill someone gets complicated.
The same article mentions tricking out an AR for increased range. Mind you, doesn't matter if he AR is sub moa (and whether or not an adaquately large pattern is used to tell) if the the shooter isn't.

But, eh, not like people can't get hold of longer ranged accurate rifles in the US, even for legitimate, non-Trump offing reasons.
 

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tstorm823

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Have you been living under a rock? Are you genuinely unaware of how conservatives have been banging on about "traditional" gender roles for decades-to-centuries? How women should stay in the kitchen, men should be the breadwinners, certain jobs are "for men", cross-dressing is "gay"? Whereas the queer community has been overwhelmingly loudest about expressing yourself however you wish.

I have not "made up" something I've seen and heard explicitly from conservative outlets and conservative politicians for many years. You're drastically out of step with your own adopted political camp on this question.
All of that is wrong. Phrases like barefoot and pregnant were invented to be a criticism, these sorts of things are never advocated for, except perhaps by the fringiest fringe who you can't reasonably describe as "conservative". It's a strawman illusion that you've been fed. Respect for homemakers is not saying anyone should be trapped in the home. Saying a husband ought to provide for his family is not the same as saying it matters that he makes more money than his wife. Certain jobs just are for bigger, stronger people, there's no way you're actually going to disagree with that. There is the slightest crumbs of truth buried in there that you might grasp onto, but the way you see it is pure propaganda, invented to smear people.

You've heard absolutely none of this from conservative outlets and politicians, you've heard it from your own side trying to convince you their opponents are evil.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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All of that is wrong. Phrases like barefoot and pregnant were invented to be a criticism, these sorts of things are never advocated for, except perhaps by the fringiest fringe who you can't reasonably describe as "conservative". It's a strawman illusion that you've been fed. Respect for homemakers is not saying anyone should be trapped in the home. Saying a husband ought to provide for his family is not the same as saying it matters that he makes more money than his wife. Certain jobs just are for bigger, stronger people, there's no way you're actually going to disagree with that. There is the slightest crumbs of truth buried in there that you might grasp onto, but the way you see it is pure propaganda, invented to smear people.

You've heard absolutely none of this from conservative outlets and politicians, you've heard it from your own side trying to convince you their opponents are evil.
Don't believe your lying eyes and ears says tstorm.
 

tstorm823

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Don't believe your lying eyes and ears says tstorm.
If you've got an example of a conservative telling women to stay in the kitchen, please provide.

Otherwise, you're applying that phrase to hearsay, which is the opposite of how you're supposed to use it.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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If you've got an example of a conservative telling women to stay in the kitchen, please provide.

Otherwise, you're applying that phrase to hearsay, which is the opposite of how you're supposed to use it.
Any example I provide will just lead to you saying they're not a "real" conservative.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Just pick someone who's not making their money off of social media outrage.
Andrew Tate makes his money off sex trafficking women, does he count as "conservative" enough for you?
 

Gordon_4

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Not sure where people are getting the idea that the AR-15 has a practical accuracy range of only 400 yards. The AR-15 is one of the most accurate semi-auto rifles out of the box. Even the cheaper ones can usually hit under 3moa, and higher end rifles can hit sub 1 moa with a bit of tuning.

Here's a video of a guy using his competition rifle out to 800 yards pretty effectively.

Yeah but that’s a competition rifle being used by someone who trains and drills to do competition shooting. If this guy had been on that rooftop he wouldn’t have missed; the fact the actual shooter did is an indictment on their ability to shoot rather than any shortcoming of the rifle.

400 yards might be the range they consider realistically effective in the hands of a total numpty who might want to try their hand at these shenanigans. Realistically the Secret Service probably know that should a trained and motivated individual choose to take such action at those extreme ranges there is little they could do.
 

Kwak

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All of that is wrong. Phrases like barefoot and pregnant were invented to be a criticism, these sorts of things are never advocated for, except perhaps by the fringiest fringe who you can't reasonably describe as "conservative". It's a strawman illusion that you've been fed. Respect for homemakers is not saying anyone should be trapped in the home. Saying a husband ought to provide for his family is not the same as saying it matters that he makes more money than his wife. Certain jobs just are for bigger, stronger people, there's no way you're actually going to disagree with that. There is the slightest crumbs of truth buried in there that you might grasp onto, but the way you see it is pure propaganda, invented to smear people.

You've heard absolutely none of this from conservative outlets and politicians, you've heard it from your own side trying to convince you their opponents are evil.
You are evil, and you shall be defeated, and the memory of your cowardly lies will live on and be will be cursed for 13 generations. Not your generations though, your line ends with you.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Yeah but that’s a competition rifle being used by someone who trains and drills to do competition shooting. If this guy had been on that rooftop he wouldn’t have missed; the fact the actual shooter did is an indictment on their ability to shoot rather than any shortcoming of the rifle.

400 yards might be the range they consider realistically effective in the hands of a total numpty who might want to try their hand at these shenanigans. Realistically the Secret Service probably know that should a trained and motivated individual choose to take such action at those extreme ranges there is little they could do.
I don't think the shooter was a bad shot, I think Trump actually just got incredibly lucky and moved his head just as the shot went off. Of course the shooter could have just aimed at his chest and then he would have hit him for sure, but that's poor decision making rather than poor marksmanship.
 
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Silvanus

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All of that is wrong. Phrases like barefoot and pregnant were invented to be a criticism, these sorts of things are never advocated for, except perhaps by the fringiest fringe who you can't reasonably describe as "conservative". It's a strawman illusion that you've been fed. Respect for homemakers is not saying anyone should be trapped in the home. Saying a husband ought to provide for his family is not the same as saying it matters that he makes more money than his wife. Certain jobs just are for bigger, stronger people, there's no way you're actually going to disagree with that. There is the slightest crumbs of truth buried in there that you might grasp onto, but the way you see it is pure propaganda, invented to smear people.

You've heard absolutely none of this from conservative outlets and politicians, you've heard it from your own side trying to convince you their opponents are evil.
Buddy, I've heard it directly from the horse's mouth, over and over again. I've read it in conservative papers and heard it from conservative politicians directly. This is not stuff I've heard described by commentators on my side. It's stuff conservatives have been very loudly, very proudly insisting for bloody decades.

I find it stunning that you'd have so little conception of what your own political camp has been peddling. I can only conclude either 1) you're lying, or 2) you genuinely cannot comprehend that people you support hold different societal values to you.

Anywho, a few examples.

Here's Fox News interviewing Lawrence Jones, on how women want a "traditional man" who'll be the one to "herd the cattle", and how traditional masculinity and femininity should be maintained. Women stepping outside traditional female gender roles is described as "woke" in media.

Here's a Fox News piece, including how "ancient" traditional gender roles (men= goal oriented, providing; women= nurturing, imaginative) are under attack by "the left".

Here's a study of gender views, correlates, political views and religion across the US states, including how political conservatism are associated with traditional gender roles.

Here's the overview for Manhood by Josh Hawley, Republican Senator, who argues that we must return to ancient traditional masculine gender roles, and that they're under attack by "liberals".

Here's an account of when conservative groups-- including the conservative Catholic "Tradition, Family, Property" movement-- protested Judith Butler at Sao Paulo, and burned an effigy of her, in protest against her supposed attack on traditional gender roles.

Here's an overview of how ultra-conservative Italian PM Georgia Meloni utilises traditional gender roles.

Here is Catholic.com explaining that there are differences in the roles men and women "naturally play", with women more naturally caregivers, and men more natural workers outside the home. It's a view that's been echoed by the Catholic institutions for centuries.

Here's an account of the 1993 RNC and DNC, attesting that gender views expressed at the RNC had then crystallised around a traditionally-gendered model, with men as breadwinners and women as caregivers.

Here's an overview of how British 'traditional conservatism' and 'conservative feminism' have both been encouraging of traditional gender roles for women, and how grassroots party members hold views around the traditional roles of women.

Here's a King's article about how the right-wing Polish Law and Justice Party, with the support of the Catholic Church, supports heavily traditional gender roles.

Can find more if ya like, this didn't take long because the sheer wealth of examples is vast.
 
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