Your video game hot take(s) thread

Ezekiel

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Because there's nothing to respond to. I've told you what I think about the combination of FromSoftware's bad AI and sprint. Focusing so much on that (first thing you replied with) misses the point. What is the point of explaining Call of Duty? Even if I concede that it's well implemented there, brushing my complaint away with a few favorable examples presumes that the run button is always implemented with the best of intentions and on a case-by-case basis. The sheer number of these games suggests that the choice is often much more artless than that. I can name many games in which it detracts and also give alternatives. It does generally make more sense in shooters, though. Third or first, perspective doesn't make much difference when sprinting with a gun.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Because there's nothing to respond to. I've told you what I think about the combination of FromSoftware's bad AI and sprint. Focusing so much on that (first thing you replied with) misses the point. What is the point of explaining Call of Duty? Even if I concede that it's well implemented there, brushing my complaint away with a few favorable examples presumes that the run button is always implemented with the best of intentions and on a case-by-case basis. The sheer number of these games suggests that the choice is often much more artless than that. I can name many games in which it detracts and also give alternatives. It does generally make more sense in shooters, though. Third or first, perspective doesn't make much difference when sprinting with a gun.
Whats wrong with the AI in fromsoftware games?
 

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Whats wrong with the AI in fromsoftware games?
Souls enemies are generally pretty dumb. For example there's more than a few situations in the games where enemies and even bosses will just throw themselves off cliffs.


 
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NerfedFalcon, responding again to your first reply, GTA and RDR are bad in this way also because there is nothing between the walk and fast run. It's missing the standard slow run. They want you to walk almost all the time, for boring realism.
RDR2 has a jog on foot by holding X/A. Tapping to sprint makes sense since it uses the most stamina. If this game in particular just used the small analog stick range for all movement increments then it wouldn’t be enough to reliably hold certain speeds. Like when riding a horse, each tap changes its cadence, of which there are like four or five IIRC. There’s also hold X/A to match speed of a companion, or double tap to move up in formation in a group.

Horse controls have far more nuance than human movement in the game because well, horse movement is far more nuanced than human movement in general.

 

NerfedFalcon

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RDR2 has a jog on foot by holding X/A. Tapping to sprint makes sense since it uses the most stamina. If this game in particular just used the small analog stick range for all movement increments then it wouldn’t be enough to reliably hold certain speeds. Like when riding a horse, each tap changes its cadence, of which there are like four or five IIRC. There’s also hold X/A to match speed of a companion, or double tap to move up in formation in a group.

Horse controls have far more nuance than human movement in the game because well, horse movement is far more nuanced than human movement in general.

I'm not totally sure why the walk/jog/sprint on foot needs to be done that way - that you have to hold the button to jog and mash to sprint, I mean, instead of holding the button to sprint and moving the control stick halfway to walk. Even horse acceleration/deceleration could be done just by holding either the 'speed up' or 'slow down' buttons, theoretically, at least as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm totally missing something here, but the mashing part doesn't feel necessary to me.
 

Ezekiel

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RDR2 has a jog on foot by holding X/A. Tapping to sprint makes sense since it uses the most stamina. If this game in particular just used the small analog stick range for all movement increments then it wouldn’t be enough to reliably hold certain speeds. Like when riding a horse, each tap changes its cadence, of which there are like four or five IIRC. There’s also hold X/A to match speed of a companion, or double tap to move up in formation in a group.

Horse controls have far more nuance than human movement in the game because well, horse movement is far more nuanced than human movement in general.

The character runs too fast while holding the button, making it harder to steer and explore. It's not the standard slow run.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Souls enemies are generally pretty dumb. For example there's more than a few situations in the games where enemies and even bosses will just throw themselves off cliffs.
That is intended. How is that worse then most games?
 

Casual Shinji

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That is intended. How is that worse then most games?
If it's intended that they throw themselves off of ledges I'd put question marks behind that design.

Souls enemies aren't any less smart than other game enemies, they just lack a lot of the window dressing those enemies have. In a Souls game enemies are either attacking you or they're pretty much standing still doing absolutely nothing. As opposed to other games where there's maybe more of a sense interacting with the environment or eachother, whether it's enemies talking to eachother or their passive animations showing more personality.

Even when dead and sticking to you like shopping bags highlights the very rudimentary design behind Souls enemies.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
If it's intended that they throw themselves off of ledges I'd put question marks behind that design.

Souls enemies aren't any less smart than other game enemies, they just lack a lot of the window dressing those enemies have. In a Souls game enemies are either attacking you or they're pretty much standing still doing absolutely nothing. As opposed to other games where there's maybe more of a sense interacting with the environment or eachother, whether it's enemies talking to eachother or their passive animations showing more personality.

Even when dead and sticking to you like shopping bags highlights the very rudimentary design behind Souls enemies.
Those are both early game bosses where its expected the player is still coming to grips with the gameplay so having the boss able to kill itself is actually good design since if a player is having a hard time, the boss might end up ending itself. If it wasn't intended as a possibility then they would have just altered the arenas so it couldn't happen.
 

Casual Shinji

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Those are both early game bosses where its expected the player is still coming to grips with the gameplay so having the boss able to kill itself is actually good design since if a player is having a hard time, the boss might end up ending itself. If it wasn't intended as a possibility then they would have just altered the arenas so it couldn't happen.
Or they didn't care to fix it. It's not like Dark Souls isn't notorious for its unfinished later levels... or Bed of Chaos.

I'm not buying the 'they intended for enemies to walk themselves off a cliff' argument. If the developers intended for new players to have an easier time early on they would've designed better turorials and tutorial fights, not have enemies kill themselves. Souls games are no different from other games, so stupid things that happen in those games are just as stupid when they happen in Souls.
 
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I'm not totally sure why the walk/jog/sprint on foot needs to be done that way - that you have to hold the button to jog and mash to sprint, I mean, instead of holding the button to sprint and moving the control stick halfway to walk. Even horse acceleration/deceleration could be done just by holding either the 'speed up' or 'slow down' buttons, theoretically, at least as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm totally missing something here, but the mashing part doesn't feel necessary to me.
It’s more down to the feel of the controls given the nature of the character and setting. Whether people love it or hate or some combination, the game was designed to feel more methodical and deliberate, so the only way to mimic exertion on foot at least is through a button. So it feels more natural to mash something when your character is spiriting than just having them do it without any noticeable effort on the player’s part, if that makes sense.

The horse speed increments are practical as-is since it’s just a button tap for each speed increase which kinda mimics a spur kick, and letting off the left stick will let the horse gradually slow down and naturally avoid obstacles like trees or cliffs. A quicker stop is R1, and there’s also modifiers for stuff like slide stops, in-place landings, etc. They went all out with horses in this game and it’s one of the high points gameplay-wise.
 

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I'm not buying the 'they intended for enemies to walk themselves off a cliff' argument.
Agreed. That is definitely a load of bungess.

As much as I love Streets of Rage 4 and Double Dragon Gaiden. The mooks still blow themselves up or jump/fall into pits. Though I have little complaints in those cases, because it is hilarious.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Or they didn't care to fix it. It's not like Dark Souls isn't notorious for its unfinished later levels... or Bed of Chaos.

I'm not buying the 'they intended for enemies to walk themselves off a cliff' argument. If the developers intended for new players to have an easier time early on they would've designed better turorials and tutorial fights, not have enemies kill themselves. Souls games are no different from other games, so stupid things that happen in those games are just as stupid when they happen in Souls.
No, you're just wrong, those are intended possibilities. Especially the Taurus demon, I haven't played 2 so I can't speak as to that boss having a dodge back or something, but still that arena has a very specific design that allows for that. For the Taurus demon it clearly has a back hop move it can do and there is clearly a break in the walls of the bridge that makes it easy to hop off of, infact, it took more work to make that break then not have it. So yes, its clearly designed for that possibility.
 
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Casual Shinji

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No, you're just wrong, those are intended possibilities. Especially the Taurus demon, I haven't played 2 so I can't speak as to that boss having a dodge back or something, but still that arena has a very specific design that allows for that. For the Taurus demon it clearly has a back hop move it can do and there is clearly a break in the walls of the bridge that makes it easy to hop off of, infact, it took more work to make that break then not have it. So yes, its clearly designed for that possibility.
Then it's designed badly, because all the times I defeated the Taurus Demon it never fell off the bridge. If this was intended to make it easier for beginners, then maybe they shouldn't have designed the fight arena with an archer above you guiding you to higher ground for a plunge attack, which you learned just recently with the Asylum Demon. THAT's how teach something to beginners. The backhop off the bridge is an accidental discovery or something you found in a clip on youtube.

Also, if that's an intended strategy meant to be used by beginners, it means the game is teaching new players that enemies are completely stupid, and I doubt Fromsoft was intending to make their monsters act like clown shoes.
 

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No, you're just wrong, those are intended possibilities. Especially the Taurus demon, I haven't played 2 so I can't speak as to that boss having a dodge back or something, but still that arena has a very specific design that allows for that. For the Taurus demon it clearly has a back hop move it can do and there is clearly a break in the walls of the bridge that makes it easy to hop off of, infact, it took more work to make that break then not have it. So yes, its clearly designed for that possibility.
You're just wrong about this.

With the Taurus Demon fight the intention to having that break in the wall is for the boss to be able to knock you off the arena. It's meant to punish your bad positioning and teach you not to stand near ledges when fighting something bigger than you because taking a big hit with your shield up still knocks you backward.

The Taurus demon wasn't even originally supposed to be the boss fight on that bridge in DS1, he was repurposed to that area, and they just never bothered to fix his movement to not fall off the map because the development of DS1 was rushed and the game was never finished. (I can't find the source for this information. I remember it from an old Zullie The Witch video, but given that she has hundreds of videos about the various technical changes in all of the Souls games I don't really have time to look for it at the moment, so just "trust me bro.")

The clip for the Dark Souls 2 boss that I posted, the Dragon Rider is even worse. If you ever play it, it is very clear from the arena and boss design that it's all designed for the boss to knock YOU off. There's levers you can find and pull in the area leading up to the boss fight that cause the arena to get larger so that you have less of a chance of getting knocked off. The intention is that taking the time to explore the area would help alleviate a disadvantage later in the boss fight. It actually ends up doing the opposite because the bad boss pathing means that having the smaller arena makes it easy for him to accidentally kill himself.

There's a bunch of other places in all of the souls games where enemies just ledge themselves and die because their pathing is bad.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Then it's designed badly, because all the times I defeated the Taurus Demon it never fell off the bridge. If this was intended to make it easier for beginners, then maybe they shouldn't have designed the fight arena with an archer above you guiding you to higher ground for a plunge attack, which you learned just recently with the Asylum Demon. THAT's how teach something to beginners. The backhop off the bridge is an accidental discovery or something you found in a clip on youtube.
The first time I beat the Taurus demon he back-hopped off the bridge and it was awesome and hilarious. Especially since at that point I was having a bit of trouble beating him. Its not an intended way to beat him but its intended that it can happen.

With the Taurus Demon fight the intention to having that break in the wall is for the boss to be able to knock you off the arena. It's meant to punish your bad positioning and teach you not to stand near ledges when fighting something bigger than you because taking a big hit with you shield up still knocks you backward.
Except hes still like the only boss and one of the few enemies that has a specific dodge move and they left that in. So even if he wasn't intended to be a boss fight and wasn't intended to be a boss fight in that location, they still left it in so it wasn't unintended.
 

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So even if he wasn't intended to be a boss fight and wasn't intended to be a boss fight in that location, they still left it in so it wasn't unintended.
"They left it in so it's intended" is a pretty silly position to have in terms of game development. Devs leave glitches and exploits in games all the time either because they don't have the time or resources to fix them, or just didn't know about them when the game shipped, but that doesn't mean that the glitches and exploits that are left in games are all intentional.

You can kill the Capra Demon in lower undead burg by throwing firebombs into his area over the fog gate, thereby beating the boss without ever stepping into the boss room. Pretty sure that was an oversight rather than intended behavior, but it's still in the game.

With regards to the Taurus Demon I'm pretty sure they just didn't want to bother rewriting his pathing because they didn't have the resources to do so, and the boss killing himself isn't detrimental to the player.
 
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Casual Shinji

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The first time I beat the Taurus demon he back-hopped off the bridge and it was awesome and hilarious. Especially since at that point I was having a bit of trouble beating him. Its not an intended way to beat him but its intended that it can happen.
A lot of things can happen in a game, and it's not always intended. Early Fromsoft games have a lot of scotch tape in them, and a big imposing Boss backstepping himself into an early grave I doubt was part of its intended design - they just left it in. It's just one of those wonky Fromsoft moments.

The charm of early Fromsoft was this wonky, unpolished design to their games. It made it feel unfamiliar and strange, and not like the overly polished and rigid mechanics of AAA games. Now though, when they still can't design a camera or a lock-on that's worth much, after all the money and experience they've accumulated... It's less charming.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
With regards to the Taurus Demon I'm pretty sure they just didn't want to bother rewriting his pathing because they didn't have the resources to do so, and the boss killing himself isn't detrimental to the player.
Except they also made it so he can jump up on the tower with the archers behind him if you try and just range him from there. So they obviously didn't just move him to that encounter with no changes.

A lot of things can happen in a game, and it's not always intended. Early Fromsoft games have a lot of scotch tape in them, and a big imposing Boss backstepping himself into an early grave I doubt was part of its intended design - they just left it in. It's just one of those wonky Fromsoft moments.
Doubt it.
 

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Except they also made it so he can jump up on the tower with the archers behind him if you try and just range him from there. So they obviously didn't just move him to that encounter with no changes.
That's a scripted action, it doesn't have anything to do with pathing or AI.

Doubt it.
If the Taurus demon throwing himself off the bridge was thought out and intentional they probably would have given him an animation for falling off instead of just awkwardly dropping in his idle pose.

Having said that, there's plenty of places where enemies take themselves out in Dark Souls that are clearly unintended. I've seen serpent men run themselves off bridges in Sen's Fortress without any player input. I've seen drakes in the valley of the drakes fall into the ravine, and I've seen lightening demons in Anor Londo just back themselves off ledges despite the fact that they both have wings and can fly (which makes it extra silly). Painting guardians pretty routinely fall off the rafters trying to path to the player. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head, and just in DS1. There's soo many more examples I could think of in the rest of the Souls series.

The AI in the Souls games is generally not very good, or very robust. For the most part enemies tend to do just run directly at the player to attack them, or occasionally have scripted sequences where they lead the player into a trap. This isn't really a dig at the games though. The majority of games don't have very good AI, and at least the Souls games tend to have the defense that most enemies are hollowed out walking husks and shouldn't be expected to be smart.

If you ever try speedrunning the games, or attempt to use weird challenge builds (like beating Dark Souls with just a bow for example) you would notice how bad the AI is at dealing with anything but the most common play styles.
 
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