Believe it or not but most people, even left wing voters don’t vote solely to give the dems a bad day.
US 2024 Presidential Election
- Thread starter gorfias
- Start date
It's not about giving The Democrats a bad day (though that can be a tasty cherry on top). It's about voting for what you WANT, not just voting against something you don't want.
I'm disappointed that so many were willing to reject The Democrats and their right wing politics and genocide but couldn't bother to do the little extra work of going to the polls to try to get a third party to 5%.
For people to do that they would need to believe that a third party vote would matter.
Win a state or two and have a sizable faction in the house before trying for president.
For the last time a big US party failed, we need to go back to the Whigs. And even that one just exploded from infighting and was not just replaced by a third party movement.
It is extremely unlikely we will see the end of the Republicans or Democrats in our lifetime.
Well, that's just it: discussions about why to vote Green also tended to just be about how awful the Dems are. They derive their support primarily from rejection of the 'uniparty', which can just as easily be accomplished by staying home.
It's a mirror of the same mistake the Dems evidently made, resting their case on what they're not.
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"Social Media" as if shit like Rogan, Shapiro, etc aren't the most widely viewed and pushed posts on Facebook and Twitter. You're just whining that the cool kids don't think you're cool
That's gonna be the most annoying part of the next 4 years. Your politics will run basically unopposed but you'll still be whining about how you aren't universally adored
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No, I'm not taking anything you're saying as a personal attack or anything, just a thought that I didn't express myself well with that statement since both people who commented on it took it not how I meant.
She did real bad this year. My copium is that people listened to the centrists who said voting for her was useless and so on, so they just all went and voted Trump. When I think of what the left could do in this situation, I think of Mexico, Brazil, and France; where the left was allowed to fight the far right and soundly defeated it where centrism is struggling literally everywhere else. This election was predictable by world trends, but stopping it here was like wrestling a freight train. And why get upset about something you have no control over?
There's just little else in the realm of electorialism, that's why I say it's the lowest activism and why I have no issues voting green. You're right, the system is rigged and voting itself is pretty much a joke. So what do you do? All you can do is use it as a cudgel, but what would be more important is earning wins in opinion. Winning that ballot initiative (and stopping the others) is far more important than who wins the presidency. Making waves between elections is more important than the last few months of panic in the leadup. It's all about not playing the stupid game that is put in front of us.
Don't you apologize, I'd way rather talk to you than some of the other people on here. As for seeing the far right up close, my family has turned to Newsmax because Fox news is part of the liberal globalist conspiracy, I am fully aware of what American far right looks like and get it ranted at me on visits.
Well you started by talking with me about some of what I posted and I did in fact just post back cordially. There was some "I told you so" ism, but to be fair you literally mirrored what I have, in fact, told you for years at me. I got prickly when you turned the conversation into a conversation about yourself.
The diagnosis that Harris should have spend more time on economic issues and ''concerns of ordinary people'' is a valid one, but its important to note that this isn't an instant remedy because the right can play VERY dirty when it comes to controlling the narrative.
A good example is migration. No matter how far the left and center move right on the issue, no matter how many migrants they deport or lock up under deplorable condition the right always counters with ''lol the left and center do nothing against migration'' and then that's the official narrative.
Same with social issues. The left and sometimes even the center can create as many social programs as they can and the right can cuddle up to corrupt millionaires as much as they can. At the end of the day the narrative will always be that those dirty leftists and centrist ''abandoned'' the common man and that only the upper class loving far right truly represents the common man.
A good case study happened in the Dutch Election. We have a tax on health insurance that's highly unpopular, and combined very poorly with inflation for lower incomes. Labour Leader Timmermans had a policy to get rid of it by phasing it out over time and ensure relief for lower incomes. When a ''concerned citizen'' asked him about it he said he didn't have a magic wand to instantly remove it but that he would phase it out over time. The the ''concerned citizen'' and Wilders jointly started shouting ''Oh how DARED Timmermans say that! Didn't he know that lady needed relief RIGHT NOW!''....and then the narrative became that Timmermans was a technocrat who just didn't understand problems of the common man, with his stuffy policies and his nuance.
Then Wilders won the election in part due to this and when he got the department of public health he said....that he couldn't instantly remove the health insurance tax and that it would be phased over time....through a policy that would take longer then compared to the policy Timmermans had laid out. And then it turned out that the ''concerned'' citizen had been a plant, and that the news agency that hosted the debate knew in advance she had been a plant. When this lady who ''COULD NOT WAIT'' was interviewed about Wilders phasing out the health insurance rather then removing it instantly she cheerfully said she didn't mind.
A good example is migration. No matter how far the left and center move right on the issue, no matter how many migrants they deport or lock up under deplorable condition the right always counters with ''lol the left and center do nothing against migration'' and then that's the official narrative.
Same with social issues. The left and sometimes even the center can create as many social programs as they can and the right can cuddle up to corrupt millionaires as much as they can. At the end of the day the narrative will always be that those dirty leftists and centrist ''abandoned'' the common man and that only the upper class loving far right truly represents the common man.
A good case study happened in the Dutch Election. We have a tax on health insurance that's highly unpopular, and combined very poorly with inflation for lower incomes. Labour Leader Timmermans had a policy to get rid of it by phasing it out over time and ensure relief for lower incomes. When a ''concerned citizen'' asked him about it he said he didn't have a magic wand to instantly remove it but that he would phase it out over time. The the ''concerned citizen'' and Wilders jointly started shouting ''Oh how DARED Timmermans say that! Didn't he know that lady needed relief RIGHT NOW!''....and then the narrative became that Timmermans was a technocrat who just didn't understand problems of the common man, with his stuffy policies and his nuance.
Then Wilders won the election in part due to this and when he got the department of public health he said....that he couldn't instantly remove the health insurance tax and that it would be phased over time....through a policy that would take longer then compared to the policy Timmermans had laid out. And then it turned out that the ''concerned'' citizen had been a plant, and that the news agency that hosted the debate knew in advance she had been a plant. When this lady who ''COULD NOT WAIT'' was interviewed about Wilders phasing out the health insurance rather then removing it instantly she cheerfully said she didn't mind.
Yes, because what you were saying at that point seemed to be at odds with what you said before. I wanted to clarify that.
In a time of high emotion, I simply said I felt depressed because of hate towards a demographic to which I belong, and mentioned several rights queer people would lose. That was pretty much all. Is that somehow unacceptable? Is fear or upset invalid unless I'm actually in the United States at the present time, or do you just want to make extra special sure I know you don't give a shit about things I care about?
It's ok, I have it on good authority that Mexico will pay for it
How? This entire election has been defined by "Democrats will lose because they offer nothing to vote for".
Where was that empathy when it came to Muslims? The democrat platform as far as they were concerned was "vote for us to kill people like you".
Right, and then you said Republicans would suffer electorally at the midterms if they acted badly. After saying one side acting badly is never enough.
It was nowhere. None of which I endorsed or expressed. I in fact repeatedly condemned the Democrats for their actions with Israel and Gaza.
This is just guilt by association, then? I encouraged a tactical vote in a certain direction, so fuck me forever, nothing I value matters? Is this the approach you'll employ towards the rest of the 99.6% of American voters who didn't vote the same way as you-- all concerns are illegitimate, they're unforgiveable fascists!
Yeah, now that dems are in the minority they'll run on actually fixing things, and the republicans can offer easy layups if they aren't careful.
Not on the vote, because there could be any number of reasons to vote. Even people saying to vote tactically are in a vacuum fine. But it's a bit hypocritical to try for the sympathy route when you're arguing with someone in these circumstances.
Ah, they're allowed to vote differently to you, but they're not allowed to express fear or upset about anything that happens if they voted differently to you. Not monumentally arrogant or callous at all.
I wonder why support stalled at 0.4, with such compassionate advocacy! I do recall you talking about how campaigning should be positive about their vision, after all!
Oh no, they can be upset. They just can't spend all their time arguing against left wing values, demanding Muslims vote for the genocide of Palestinian people, and then complain at the left wingers again "oh woe is me and my problems!"
It's why I don't think you actually care, or feel bad. It's a weapon to cudgel with, which is absolutely distasteful.
The chart bothers me immensely because the Biden bar goes over 100% and the Trump 2024 bar doesn't even reach 100%. What rinkidink outfit made this graph?!