US 2024 Presidential Election

Phoenixmgs

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Please, are you going to tell us that Trump hasn't sold himself as anti-government? Anti establishment?An outsider?

I've been listening non-MAGA people who voted for Trump for the last couple of months. This is what I can sum up:

Both sides are bad. Especially on economics for the worker. Vote for Trump because he's a criminal and will break it. It can't be worse than what is happening now

Burning things is just taken from them

Edit: I forgot
Do you know what happens if you drain a swamp? It's no longer a swamp. They don't actually care about it being hot and burning. They want it gone
Seriously?! Trump never said to burn the system down. When did Trump say the actual structure of the government is bad? He's only said to get rid of the bad people in it. You're not meant to take sayings/phrases literally. You can't provide proof Trump has said or wants to burn the system down, you use literal interpretation of a phrase as "proof", and you cite non-MAGA people that aren't Trump (and I'm guessing that aren't American since you're in Australia or and if they are American, they're people on messages boards or social media meaning very very very vocal minority). Is this all you got? This is like an episode of Matlock with nothing but hearsay and conjecture with no evidence.


It's a shame Epstein "killed himself"; I'm sure he would've been a popular pick for the Republican nomination. But I'll look forward to seeing Diddy win the election in about 20 years or so.

Arizona called for Trump. That's all 7 battleground states. Trump 312 - Kamala 226.

Here's what I don't get. In 2020 Biden got 81M votes and Trump 74M. In 2024, Trump gets basically the same number (he went up 400k) and Kamala gets... 70M.

(Third parties got even less votes this election btw - from 2.8M in 2020 to >2M in 2024).

So there're 10 million Democratic voters from 2020 who simply didn't show up. And Kamala did worse than Biden with literally every demographic - white, black, latino, etc. Couldn't outperform him anywhere, per CNN on election night.

View attachment 12225

Now I'm willing to believe that good ole murican sexism and racism played a part here, even though a black man won twice and a woman did get most votes one time.

... but 10 million less voters though? Trump gets the same turnout but 10 million democrats dgaf anymore?
It was funny when BrawlMan would post all the polling numbers about how Kamala was so many points higher in this demographic or that demographic but failing to realize Trump gained points in those. I recall one was about young voters and how Kamala had a 10 point lead or something and I googled Biden's polling with that same group just a couple months prior and he was leading by like 30 points so I was like 'you're celebrating that Trump gained 20 points'? I just made up the numbers because I don't feel like going back to find the post/stats but the point is the same.
 

tippy2k2

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I haven't seen this anywhere Reputable yet but I'm going to pretend it is true for this post

Is this REALLY how you want the first black woman to become president? Like...the fucking DEI jokes write themselves if Biden steps down just to let Harris have the presidency...
 
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Phoenixmgs

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I haven't seen this anywhere Reputable yet but I'm going to pretend it is true for this post

Is this REALLY how you want the first black woman to become president? Like...the fucking DEI jokes write themselves if Biden steps down just to let Harris have the presidency...
A co-worker actually mentioned this and she's not very into politics and stuff so it's going around at least. I said it would be like how Bronny James and Lebron are the highest scoring father/son duo in NBA history, Bronny has 4 points... Kamala would be Bronny in that situation and a joke.
 
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tippy2k2

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A co-worker actually mentioned this and she's not very into politics and stuff so it's going around at least. I said it would be like how Bronny James and Lebron are the highest scoring father/son duo in NBA history, Bronny has 4 points... Kamala would be Bronny in that situation and a joke.
I did see one very good argument for it though

It would ruin all of Trump's 47 merchandise

So...I could now be convinced 😂
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Oh I have negative optimism that these old farts are gonna learn a thing. They're already doubling down on how voters failed them, they didn't fail voters and that clearly the only reason Harris got her teeth kicked in is she's a black woman. Her campaign was "perfect" so they just do the same thing next time but maybe with Walz or another old white guy as the head cheese instead.

The Democrats are literally the Skinner Meme.

"Am I so out of touch??? No, it's the voters who are wrong..."
Give it 2 weeks that's how long it took with the Hillary campaign before any actual critical thinking really started after her loss.

A lot of factors got Trump the win this time:

The perception under Trump inflation was more controlled and things more affordable

The fear factor of Trump failing. How do you present Trump as a monster who will ruin everything when Trump has been in power before and didn't do it? Before Trump was scary and unpredictable, now? people expect him to muddle about a bit, improve some stuff, crack down a bit of some of the stuff people dislike but ultimately mostly ineffectual.

The Democrats or at least some of their supporters and writers sympathetic with them being kind of awful vindictive people who have gleefully being going "This is our hobby / IP now it's not for you go away if you won't get with the new direction it doesn't matter you helped build it to be successful" only to then see it start failing and go "It's all you fault your toxic and awful for not supporting this thing". Not to mention the endless "And this is why men are to blame" or "and this is how this issue where tons of men are impacted is actually bad for women and that's why it needs to finally change because turns out women are now affected".

Kamala having no real big stances or policies that were super clear other than something to do with Roe vs Wade......... maybe..........

The message getting confused a lot by both Waltz and Harris with presenting their campaign of one of change with lines like "We can't have 4 more years like the last 4" when Democrats and Harris being the ones in power for the last 4 and with all the "Joe Biden isn't fit to stand, and perception it was true by Biden seemingly being made to step down" it made it look even more like Harris was the one mostly in power over the 4 years babysitting an ageing infirm Biden so governing on his behalf.

The really terrible obvious pandering by Harris to an almost insulting degree and managing to screw even that up. You have Trump talking to farmers and others in publicity footage meanwhile you have the men 4 Harris advert that presented some almost stereotypical men doing manly things only for people to find out about half of them were gay amateur actors and the non gay ones were straight actors none of them living where they claimed or working as what they claimed. Then after that they sent Waltz out shooting and did promo footage of him doing basic mechanical work etc to seem more manly.

"Weird" - You know what's sunk most presidential campaigns so far? The 1 comment about the nature of voters be it in general or the other side. Romney said something like 47% of voters are are easily lead idiots. Clinton said a lot of Trump supporters are deplorable people (and people who knew people voting Trump but not themselves went "Hold up old Gerald the mechanic down the road isn't a bad guy" ). Waltz called Trump supporters weird and well it creative a bit of a sense of dissonance in the end because it was Tampon Tim saying that. Worse it could have help because it got Vance and Trump arguing about not being weird and who was the weird one etc right up until some-one on the Trump team told Vance to play a troll playbook card the "You mad bro" card but not outright say it just manage to get Waltz visibly mad at him in a debate and then play it entirely cool and not seem threatened. Suddenly Waltz went perception wise from protector fighting against the strange and dangerous to looking like the now impotent high school bully picking in people for being a little bit different.

Losing the offensiveness war - This one was funny online in a petty shit flinging was. It started mostly when Harris supporters started spreading a rumour about Vance having sex with a sofa.........leaving aside the weirdly implied racism there, it screwed over public perception because the Republican supporters then spread a very clearly over the top joke response about Tim Waltz drinking horse semen and all the people where were laughing going "Vance is a couch shagger" suddenly went "Wait you can't say that. Why would you think that up you weirdo" when they'd thought up cough shagging but accidentally drinking or doing stuff with bodily fluids is a classic part of adolescent humour like There's something about Mary and at least one if not more of the Austin Powers films.
 

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... but 10 million less voters though? Trump gets the same turnout but 10 million democrats dgaf anymore?
The count isn't finished. Looking at states reporting less than 99% done, there are about 8.1 million votes left to count, 6 million of them in just California. The total vote count is going to be reasonably close year over year.
 

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Man, if only hundreds of thousands of voters tried to warn them about this during the primary! Maybe they could have written like..."I have no commitment towards the current party due to their actions in funding a genocide" or something like that.

But I guess that's why they say Hindsight is 20/20. No one could have possibly predicted this.
Noone, especially the Gazans, care if you made yourself feel good

They care if there is more or less of them dying

Tokenism doesn't do anything
 

Trunkage

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Edit: This is a GENERALISATION. Not all (and given the size of the USA, millions) people had this happen

TLDR. Wages increases were outpacing inflation in the last two years. He pointed this out months ago and got raked over the coals. Me included. It doesn't matter as the numbers are still improving. More people are in the workforce than ever before.

The complaining has been done more by the older generations, even though GENERALLY they are way richer. So something is going on The sentiment on the economy is way different than the actual numbers, even for the average worker. Apparently, this hasn't happened in history

So when 'random Steve' says vibes of the economy is the only thing that's important.... yes. And it's not random evil young people claiming the economy is bad
 
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Man, if only hundreds of thousands of voters tried to warn them about this during the primary! Maybe they could have written like..."I have no commitment towards the current party due to their actions in funding a genocide" or something like that.

But I guess that's why they say Hindsight is 20/20. No one could have possibly predicted this.
Are you doing anything to help the people in Gaza? Voting is not the only way to make an impact.

Since there has been a lot of back and forth here where emotions have flied high, let me be clear: this question is not meant as a Gotcha or anything like that; I am asking both to find out what one can do as an individual if there is anything you do and to post a reminder that you don't need to act via the government if there is not.

I'm pretty sure no one in the DNC has done any critical thinking since Hillary's loss
Not even Biden? He did defeat Trump.
 

Trunkage

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Not even Biden? He did defeat Trump.
The last thing I would blame Biden for is critical reflection

I personally think a big problem was, when Ukraine happened, he became a budget hawk. The deficits his budgets had were significantly lower than Trump's. But it also meant that he stopped helping people on the ground. I think this is a bad self reflection

Now, my narrative is questioned by the above video I posted. Eg. The removal of the child tax credits didnt make those people sour on the economy
 

tippy2k2

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Noone, especially the Gazans, care if you made yourself feel good

They care if there is more or less of them dying

Tokenism doesn't do anything
You're right, they care way more if they're dying.

Whether Team Red or Team Blue is dropping the bombs doesn't matter to them I imagine...

 
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tippy2k2

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Are you doing anything to help the people in Gaza? Voting is not the only way to make an impact.

Since there has been a lot of back and forth here where emotions have flied high, let me be clear: this question is not meant as a Gotcha or anything like that; I am asking both to find out what one can do as an individual if there is anything you do and to post a reminder that you don't need to act via the government if there is not.
Not particularly. When I do donations to causes, I almost exclusively do local causes just because I know exactly what's happening with that money and that the cause is legit. There's so many shitty people out there using Gaza to do fake charity and whatnot that I got really gunshy about donating abroad. I both volunteer and work at a Cat Rescue Center so generally that's where my money goes as there's not a ton from here.

There's almost certainly more I could do but I only have so much time, energy, and money unfortunately.
 
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crimson5pheonix

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Not particularly. When I do donations to causes, I almost exclusively do local causes just because I know exactly what's happening with that money and that the cause is legit. There's so many shitty people out there using Gaza to do fake charity and whatnot that I got really gunshy about donating abroad. I both volunteer and work at a Cat Rescue Center so generally that's where my money goes as there's not a ton from here.

There's almost certainly more I could do but I only have so much time, energy, and money unfortunately.
Are you doing anything to help the people in Gaza? Voting is not the only way to make an impact.

Since there has been a lot of back and forth here where emotions have flied high, let me be clear: this question is not meant as a Gotcha or anything like that; I am asking both to find out what one can do as an individual if there is anything you do and to post a reminder that you don't need to act via the government if there is not.


Not even Biden? He did defeat Trump.
It doesn't help that Israel assassinates aid workers. The only reputable direct relief that might still go to Gaza is MSF, but every time I see news from them in Gaza, they're getting shot at by the IDF. I know the American food workers who went there got targeted and killed.
 

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For added comedy though, the centerpiece of Harris' campaign was about how much of a threat to democracy Trump was.

View attachment 12228
Republicans just pointed to clips where various Democrats, including Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton, groused about not being able to control the narrative and proposed regulation of speech on social media. Unforced error.
 
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Republicans just pointed to clips where various Democrats, including Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton, groused about not being able to control the narrative and proposed regulation of speech on social media. Unforced error.
50 % of what Trump says is exactly this. He goes further and suggests a regulation on who can vote or be elected

Perhaps the Dems need to make ridiculous claims... well, more ridiculous
 

Mister Mumbler

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Where was this? I haven’t had time to keep up with much here.
Oh God, no, you're right. I got doubly confused both between you and @Schadrach and then between @tippy2k2 and crimson. I'm incredibly sorry for the mix up. Jesus, been a long week.
Because I don't really think there was a sudden millions strong left that just went for Trump out of spite. I can tell myself that, but I suspect most either stayed home or did vote Kamala. But that would mean Trump's numbers are real and that's a worse thought.
No, I also don't think so either. This is why I started with the aside about being around the right wing in general. Between my family and my work (auto technician), and even living here in a, while now somewhat competitive, historically red state, I've had a bit of time to soak in the tepid bath water that is; yes, this is how it is. That there is indeed a voting block of nearly 50% of all voters who will consistently and without fail just...do this. I would love to live in a world where a coworker didn't come over and gush over how cool the stickers and slogans on the back of my dads truck the time I had to borrow it while my own car was out (said stickers and slogans calling for Fauci and others like members of our state gov to be rounded up and executed), or my where father isn't a craven asshole who'll side with his daughters abuser (this is also after he stuck a bullet in his hand and told him that he would shoot him if he crossed his daughter). Hell, I myself am so starved for leftist shit out here that I'd love for something as small as "unions are ok", not even great or world changing, just a neutral stance would be a breath of fresh air. Literally the only solace I can take is that 50%of voters is still only 25% of the total pop, but even then and discounting another 25% of that for children and others who can't vote, that means a full quarter who see all of this and just do absolutely fuck all.

Meanwhile, all anyone even vaguely left can seem to do (to me) is sit around and point fingers and argue over whose the actual leftist like
im-dirty-dan.gif
That's why this thread makes me so upset, because if we don't come together then we're all fucked.
Going into a nose dive and thinking you can save it at the last second is the quintessential Democrat experience. Maybe that's why they stay popular? People watch them skydive without a parachute, live life on the edge.
Yeah, no doubt. Like that one joke from (speaking of nose dives) that asshole Dave Chappelle, "They're like Evel Kinevel; they get paid for the attempt." But again, I thought we hated that the Democrats pull this shit, so why try it now? But again, I don't think (or rather don't want to think) that that is what happened because the thought kills me.
I'm going to keep banging the drum that historically going left (even with lies) is more electorally sound than pandering to the right. Pandering to the right never ever works, pundits repeat it because they're paid to, but we don't have to follow those rules.
I agree 100%, it's just that I can't find a way to square that up and make it fit into how the DNC thinks will net them a win (or, at times, if they even want to). Saying "go left to get left votes" is more esoteric and harder to explain/quantify than some brute force mathematical equation like "if we take x amount of votes from them, then they will be down x votes and we'll be up x votes and therefore win". But then again I am a cynical fuck, so who knows.
And it was the pro-Green movement that did come up with the Genocide Joe meme, it did make waves, it was popular. But it's not a policy platform and it couldn't connect with the Greens in people's minds because the Greens don't pop up in people's minds. While money isn't everything in politics, there is a strong correlation between spending and success. At the very least, you need enough to put your face on TVs and voice on radios, if you can't do that, then the people who aren't terminally online like us will never know you.
So...amongst absolutely everything going on, with all of the shit on every side, they could only get something up at the doddering old fuck, who never even made it to the election? I always hated that meme too, because it always felt like it was trying way too hard to pin Gaza entirely on Biden (not to say we arent culpable for what's going on, we absolutely are), meanwhile Needledick is over there actually ordering the tanks and planes (yes, almost always with American shells and bombs) to bomb the shit out of them with nary a peep (which, yes, is also an awful, ironic area of "see previous history with US" here). I mean forget "weird", the Dems had a vice-presidential candidate call the other a couch fucker, and they're the ones who need to learn and do better?

Because yes, they do (as evidenced by said pulling back on that and the weird comments to try and run to the right like they always fucking do...), but the bigger problem is this weird energy that keeps coming up where it feels like the only lesson being taken away is "this is entirely the Dems fault" for both their own loss, and the Greens. Because a single meme about a single candidate isn't helping, certainly not to help them dodge the meme of the Green Party being nothing but a way to split the left into useless chunks. Because again, it's 2024 my dude. Yes, we are terminally online because we are talking politics on a capital-F Forum (as a quick aside, whoever decided that all internet/chat things should move from numbered pages to infinitely scrolling needs to have their shoelaces tied together permanently). But 90% of Americans have a device literally in their pocket with access to, not only the internet at large, but even larger apps like Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and YouTube usually come preloaded these days as well. Everyone is online these days, hell, the only people who only watch cable/local TV or listen to the radio for news tend to be the very same sort of completely entrenched conservatives we keep slamming the Dems for chasing. TV killed the radio 44 years ago, and now the internet has come and killed it. This isn't to say that money isn't important, a campaign for national office takes a bit of staff who need to be paid I imagine, but to come back to the above, a good portion of them have phones with 4k capable video cameras. Literally all it takes is a potential Green candidate walking up to someone like MTG and recording a selfie video of asking them "So you're a sub right? Is 'Amen' your safeword?" and it would kill, especially if something as light as weird could whip people up. At the end of the day, we do need to figure out why it feels like they are purposefully not doing anything to actually try and win, and it can't just be "the DNC won't let them", you know? (Again though, I fully admit to not seeking out Green Party stuff ATM, so it's always possible they are doing these things already, I don't know and that's a failure on my part).
 
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