US 2024 Presidential Election

[crimson5pheonix]

Denmark seems to be doing good too, I think.

Still, this many countries in Europe (along with Canada from the looks of things) going right-wing in the face of political turmoil, completely ignoring the Left, speaks volumes to me. Maybe America is a unique case, in which the Democrates screwed up so bad that MAGA snatched them up, but to me it reads no different than what's happening in Europe.

Canada is another good example, Trudeau is a centrist and the center cannot hold against the right, but because they are painted as the left and don't strongly disavow that label, it ends up tarring the left. As for the democrats screwing up bad, the democrats are why we even have Trump in the first place. This all started back in 2015 when the Hillary campaign used what media connections they had to elevate Trump in hopes he'd win the primary and give an "easy victory" to HIllary. Literally, Trump is the democrats fault, and they've learned nothing from this exercise.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Would’ve loved to have heard what O & D were discussing-

 

[Silvanus]

Ah but there's several instances of left wing victories. Mexico is the first that comes to mind, they kept their right wing from taking power by... raising wages, improving worker protections, and fighting corruption. The left wing in France has twice now spited both the center and right and kept them from doing what they want.

This is true, although the victory over the far-right (and victory of NFP) in France also owed itself to tactical voting between the left and Macron's group. Had left-wing voters pursued the no-compromise approach, the result wouldn't have been nearly as rosy.

...of course, Macron then installed another unwanted centre-right PM when the Barnier gov collapsed. So he's certainly not taken the appropriate lessons from the election.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

This is true, although the victory over the far-right (and victory of NFP) in France also owed itself to tactical voting between the left and Macron's group. Had left-wing voters pursued the no-compromise approach, the result wouldn't have been nearly as rosy.

...of course, Macron then installed another unwanted centre-right PM when the Barnier gov collapsed. So he's certainly not taken the appropriate lessons from the election.

It should be pointed out as well that the tactical voting method only worked because of insubordination in Macron's party. Attal had to defy Macron and ask centrists to actually work with the NFP to keep the right out, Macron was ready to burn the whole country to the ground for his own ego.

 

[Hades]

Yes yes, Democrats can't fail, only The Voters can fail The Democrats. We've already been through that song and dance.

Its not the Democrats that got failed by the voters. Its the US, and the wider world at large that was failed by the US electorate.

''B-but I'm just grumpy about the Democrats'' is about the worst excuse ever for the US to go give Trump permission to lust over European lands and have his cronies try and engineer fascist victories over here. I don't friging care what you people think about the Democrats. You guys had a duty to keep Trump out of office and you failed even more spectacularly then expected.

Domestically ''I'm just grumpy about the democrats'' is also about the worst excuse to unleash oligarchs on the US public. Its also a bad excuse to just letting Trump abolish American democracy.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Its not the Democrats that got failed by the voters. Its the US, and the wider world at large that was failed by the US electorate.

''B-but I'm just grumpy about the Democrats'' is about the worst excuse ever for the US to go give Trump permission to lust over European lands and have his cronies try and engineer fascist victories over here. I don't friging care what you people think about the Democrats. You guys had a duty to keep Trump out of office and you failed even more spectacularly then expected.

Domestically ''I'm just grumpy about the democrats'' is also about the worst excuse to unleash oligarchs on the US public. Its also a bad excuse to just letting Trump abolish American democracy.

Just wow, the echo chamber you live in is ridiculous, now Trump is a threat to the world?!?! He's a lame-duck president and not even a threat inside the US. Please tell us what stuff did Trump do last time that makes you so worried. First it was Russia that got Trump in and now Trump is going to get in other leaders in other European countries so doesn't that come down to Putin doing it all? These are rather tall tales. Lastly, Harris was the worse candidate overall.

 

[Hades]

and not even a threat inside the US.

Coup

Just wow, the echo chamber you live in is ridiculous, now Trump is a threat to the world?!?

Pro Russian, pro authoritarian, pro Gaza genocide, anti European and apparently anti Denmark in particular....for some reason.

Do you really think Trump legitimizing and legalizing Russian conquests in Europe is somehow going to lead to a table world?

First it was Russia that got Trump in and now Trump is going to get in other leaders in other European countries so doesn't that come down to Putin doing it all?

Can't blame us for noticing president Musk, proud trump partisan and owner of the largest social media platform has been shilling for the European far right non stop. Or Zuckerberg outright saying he aims to team up with Trump to rob Europe of consumer protection.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Coup



Pro Russian, pro authoritarian, pro Gaza genocide, anti European and apparently anti Denmark in particular....for some reason.

Do you really think Trump legitimizing and legalizing Russian conquests in Europe is somehow going to lead to a table world?



Can't blame us for noticing president Musk, proud trump partisan and owner of the largest social media platform has been shilling for the European far right non stop. Or Zuckerberg outright saying he aims to team up with Trump to rob Europe of consumer protection.

Trump isn't going to be able to do anything in the US that requires passing of legislature.

How can Trump legitimize or legalize Russian conquests?

This stuff isn't going to happen.

 

[Hades]

How can Trump legitimize or legalize Russian conquests?

By accepting and facilitating his conquest. The US is still the world's foremost power. If Trump endorses the conquest the rest of the world is forced to follow suit or at least accept the reality through grinded teeth. It would show the world that invading your neighbors for blood and soil is glorious and that even ''the leader of the free world'' would go endorse it.

 

[tippy2k2]

Its not the Democrats that got failed by the voters. Its the US, and the wider world at large that was failed by the US electorate.

''B-but I'm just grumpy about the Democrats'' is about the worst excuse ever for the US to go give Trump permission to lust over European lands and have his cronies try and engineer fascist victories over here. I don't friging care what you people think about the Democrats. You guys had a duty to keep Trump out of office and you failed even more spectacularly then expected.

Domestically ''I'm just grumpy about the democrats'' is also about the worst excuse to unleash oligarchs on the US public. Its also a bad excuse to just letting Trump abolish American democracy.

One of these days The Democrats and Democrat Supporters will realize the Average Voter doesn't give a fuck who is in charge. The average American (IIRC, it's like...60%) are living paycheck to paycheck. The person in charge doesn't affect them (well it does but not in ways they can visibly see on a day to day basis so they don't care/don't worry about it).

Edit: I got my numbers mixed up. 60% is around the people who couldn't afford an emergency $500 bill. It's about 30% that are straight up paycheck to paycheck

BU BU BU TRUMP! has gotten us Trump twice now. BU BU BU TRUMP! is never going to work. Especially with voter suppression in so many places, people need a reason to vote FOR a candidate, not just a reason to vote against the "other guy". I'd like to think that eventually Democrats will realize this but... *waves wildly around everywhere as Democrats still insist on blaming everyone BUT themselves for losing to a Game Show host twice*

 

[Phoenixmgs]

By accepting and facilitating his conquest. The US is still the world's foremost power. If Trump endorses the conquest the rest of the world is forced to follow suit or at least accept the reality through grinded teeth. It would show the world that invading your neighbors for blood and soil is glorious and that even ''the leader of the free world'' would go endorse it.

If anything, Trump would just stop support and say it's on Europe to protect themselves.

 

[thebobmaster]

And Donald Trump has been sentenced. His penalty is being legally declared a naughty boy, and nothing more.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/10/trump-unconditional-discharge-sentencing-what-that-means-00197500

 

[tippy2k2]

And Donald Trump has been sentenced. His penalty is being legally declared a naughty boy, and nothing more.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/10/trump-unconditional-discharge-sentencing-what-that-means-00197500

The Evergreen Tweet

 

[Hades]

If anything, Trump would just stop support and say it's on Europe to protect themselves.

Which would legalize and legitimate Russian conquest of Europe and embolding others that want that sweet blood and soil. If just Europe being weaker then Russia is justification for attacks, then Taiwan just being weaker then China justifies Xi taking Taiwan, or Bibi taking Gaza, or Erdogan Syria

 

[Hades]

And Donald Trump has been sentenced. His penalty is being legally declared a naughty boy, and nothing more.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/10/trump-unconditional-discharge-sentencing-what-that-means-00197500

perks of being an aristocrat. The courts go easy on you. Always unless literally having no other choice.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Which would legalize and legitimate Russian conquest of Europe and embolding others that want that sweet blood and soil. If just Europe being weaker then Russia is justification for attacks, then Taiwan just being weaker then China justifies Xi taking Taiwan, or Bibi taking Gaza, or Erdogan Syria

No, it wouldn't. It's not on the US to protect other countries. When I was growing up, it was the left that was mad at the US for policing the world (literal lyrics from a System of a Down song). Stop changing your positions, I was for that and I am still for that, you guys need to stop changing your stances.

 

[Hades]

No, it wouldn't.

Yes it would. Ever since world war II the world operates under a system where invading and annexing your neighbors for the lulz is a taboo. And like or not the world powers are a guarantor of that system. If the US, Russia and China all move to reject this then we'll just have far more wars. That's an objective fact. Even if you're purely isolationist it cannot be denied that legitimizing bloody foreign conquests will invite further bloody foreign conquests.

It's not on the US to protect other countries

The argument of lets say for (hypothetical) example ''Congo invading and slaughtering Gambia isnt any of our problem'' is already kinda murky as is due to the above, but unlike those two Europe is literally the US's ally. So yeah. It is on you not to abandon is to any third rate dictator wanting to slaughter us. Also since unlike America which is trying to pathetically weasel out of its responsibilities now its their turn, Europe actually did go to war when the US was attacked.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yes it would. Ever since world war II the world operates under a system where invading and annexing your neighbors for the lulz is a taboo. And like or not the world powers are a guarantor of that system. If the US, Russia and China all move to reject this then we'll just have far more wars. That's an objective fact. Even if you're purely isolationist it cannot be denied that legitimizing bloody foreign conquests will invite further bloody foreign conquests.



The argument of lets say for (hypothetical) example ''Congo invading and slaughtering Gambia isnt any of our problem'' is already kinda murky as is due to the above, but unlike those two Europe is literally the US's ally. So yeah. It is on you not to abandon is to any third rate dictator wanting to slaughter us. Also since unlike America which is trying to pathetically weasel out of its responsibilities now its their turn, Europe actually did go to war when the US was attacked.

What are you talking about, Russia's army is like a joke.

The US has given and approved far enough funding for the Ukraine already.

 

[Burnhardt]

No, it wouldn't. It's not on the US to protect other countries. When I was growing up, it was the left that was mad at the US for policing the world (literal lyrics from a System of a Down song). Stop changing your positions, I was for that and I am still for that, you guys need to stop changing your stances.

There is ONLY one country in NATO that has ever invoked Article 5.

Fucking. Google. It.