this is some propaganda you absorbed without really looking into it, isn't it?
nonsense. as if everything needs to be in place before ink is even put to paper let alone dry.
Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates
- Thread starter dreng3
- Start date
You are making a lot of assumptions favorable to blowing this off. You said at first that a humanitarian corridor is not at all the same thing as forcibly removing the entire population, which is a very dicey thing to say. Then you say it would take too long, and now you're backpeddling even that when it's pointed out that it wouldn't take long at all. Your argument has morphed considerably the more you're challenged on it. That's why I doubt your sincerity.
As for Biden's motivation, he just tanked not only himself but his entire party on backing Israel and... spending billions on a doomed takeover and getting the US mired in another costly occupation. US military has gone to bat beating back people trying to stop Israel, that's not weapons sold, that is boots on the ground costing taxpayers.
My position was never that it would take so long that it would be literally impossible.
It's that if someone was planning something of such enormous scale, they wouldn't put forward a blueprint that would bottleneck the process into a decade-long mire, and then give up within 1 month.
What he's done has made hay for the defence contractors, which are the stakeholders he's interested in. The American boots currently on the ground are the tiniest fraction of what would be required for actual occupation.
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Russia attempted to take Kyiv in February 2022, and unexpectedly failed. The war is now coming up on 3 years, much of which has featured grinding attritional gains. But sure, all part of the plan.
Nope, it doesn't. There's plenty of room for all kinds of counterfactual speculation.
It's only decade long under specific assumptions that can't be made. By the math, it could be done in a single presidential term (it would cross over 1 by virtue of when it could be started), the only question is what standards the Palestinians would be given in such a scenario, and the guiding principal in seeing this is that they squeezed 1.4 million people into a camp designed for 36,000 people in something like 4 months. Your logistics argument doesn't hold water.
OK, so say it was logistically feasible in 3 years, the question is; Why plan so small for an undertaking so enormous? Average visitor attractions see 5x as much daily footfall; if they wanted to accommodate it, they could. And why give up so quickly for something so central to the plan? This route was just left dead for a year.
You're right that I'm making some assumptions-- it's unavoidable when this isn't the timeline we're in. But so are you; this entire scenario is speculative. It didn't happen and we have no indication there were even talks of any kind of evac after early 2024.
Because at the beginning of this whole tangent was Trump saying he wants to evacuate the Palestinians out of Gaza for their own good and safety to rebuild it. A move everyone can see the intention behind, no matter how long it would take, what kind of logistics he would put into place, or force he would use to move the Palestinians. But we're not talking about how infeasible it is for him. We shouldn't.
Why are we saying it was infeasible for Biden when he suggested the exact same thing and tried to enact it?
Goalposts successfully moved.
So what is the infrastructure that is in place for Trump's plan?
If you compare Biden and Trump at what they actually say and take this at face value, Trumps plan is far worse, as Biden never talked about the whole population or permanent resettlement or giving up territory.
Only if you imply that Biden secretly wanted far more, it gets slightly similar. However where Bidens at-face-value plan would have been feasible, this extrapolated idea of what he might have really wanted is not.
Sure, Trumps idea is not feasible even at face value, because Trump is an utter moron. But alone by stating that as official US policy it gives Israel a blank cheque to do whatever it can do, where before Biden regularly set red lines that he was not willing to enforce So i think even the actual results will be worse as if Kamala had won.
Thankfully war exhaustion might make the truce hold. Even if the newly emboldened Netanyahu seems keen to start again
Only if you imply that Biden secretly wanted far more, it gets slightly similar. However where Bidens at-face-value plan would have been feasible, this extrapolated idea of what he might have really wanted is not.
Sure, Trumps idea is not feasible even at face value, because Trump is an utter moron. But alone by stating that as official US policy it gives Israel a blank cheque to do whatever it can do, where before Biden regularly set red lines that he was not willing to enforce So i think even the actual results will be worse as if Kamala had won.
Thankfully war exhaustion might make the truce hold. Even if the newly emboldened Netanyahu seems keen to start again
Biden also never said that he and his State Department were publicly blaming Hamas for "not accepting a ceasefire deal" when Hamas, in fact, had and Netanyahu's regime hadn't, but that is what they did. Biden also never said that the "humanitarian aid pier" would be used for israeli military operations, but it was-- and then was promptly abandoned, as if that were its main purpose (especially as it fell far short of its stated goals even while in nominal operation). The Biden administration constantly demonstrated that it was thoroughly untrustworthy.
Biden has been a shameless liar for his whole political career, not just about the Zionist project in Palestine. But I suppose that is beyond scope.
'israel' plainly wanted far more and Biden never showed any sign that he would do anything meaningful to stop them. Any international 'humanitarian corridor' out of Gaza would be used by israel for as much ethnic cleansing as they think they could get away with.
I really wish you'd stop laundering Trump's crimes to fit your narrative. You've been doing it for a decade now. It's time to move along
Criticism of Biden is about right (or Obama before that)
Alright, who had this on their bingo card 2025?
NK is standing up for freedoms
www.aljazeera.com
Obviously, add a lot of quotation marks around all this
NK is standing up for freedoms
North Korea condemns Trump’s Gaza plan as ‘slaughter, robbery’
North Korea has called for the US to stop ‘encroaching upon the dignity and sovereignty’ of the Palestinian people.
Obviously, add a lot of quotation marks around all this
Yeah, Trump doesn't actually care about if the Palestinas are moved or not before construction starts. Cement is great at covering up bodies and it saves him money
Apparently, Trump owns Gaza now? That's news to a lot of people
We don't need to see the intention behind what Trump said; he didn't merely say he wanted to evacuate Palestinians for their own safety. He explicitly said empty the entire place, no right of return, by force, and America takes over. There's no inference necessary. The statements of intent are completely different.
With Trump we can judge him by his words, because his words already display the worst possible intent. With Biden, we don't simply judge him by his words, because his statement of intent is much smaller... but he could be lying to downplay it (especially given he has a long record of being an inveterate liar). That's when we look to his actions. But his actions don't make sense for someone planning what Trump is planning.
He has the ability and resources to bring a baseball bat to a ball game, but he brings a glove, it doesn't make sense to argue he's planning to be the batter because it's technically possible to hit the ball with the glove.
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And I wish you realized that they're two sides of the same coin and one is just stupid enough to say the plan out loud but here we are.
Also, who is the one crime laundering here? You who championed how we should vote for Holocaust Harris because she was the LESSER EVIL on genocide or myself who says they're both war criminals who deserve to go to deepest pits of hell for what they're funding Israel to do?
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The only difference is the America takes over part, and that's a very lateral move when the alternative is an Israeli takeover. Biden wanted to set up the corridor to evacuate civilians caught in the crossfire. That would be; the entire place, by force, and according to both Egypt and Jordan, with no right to return. The intention was there, you don't have to guess at what he was thinking. You just have to look at his actions and surrounding information compared to Trump just spelling it out himself.
That's a lot of stuff that wasn't stated.
Right, and judging by actions and surrounding information (rather than statements) makes sense. But I'm looking at those actions, and they make zero sense for someone planning something of this enormity.
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What wasn't stated? Biden's words were civilians caught in the crossfire. That was the entirety of the Gaza strip. Being under crossfire is by definition force to move them. And Jordan and Egypt claimed Biden offered no right to return. Every element is satisfied.